Total posts: 10,910
Posted in:
-->
@whiteflame
And yeah, Lunatic, there's still a lot I'm working on, here. Certainly could have done better at making a convincing case, though in this case, my targets likely would have been off anyway.
I was upvoting some of your posts where you were on track and hoping you would push it harder lol. It was frustrating to watch at times. But you did well over all and had pretty good reads after dp1.
Created:
Posted in:
Called that speed or whiteflame would die np2 also. Speed made sense since he was no longer mislynchable from whiteflames results
Created:
Posted in:
Danielle drafter and chris is a pretty strong team. You control the voice of a game, you control the narrative. The night kills were smart and the claims were good. I have slight issues with balance that I already mentioned to supa, but ultimately I don't think that meant town didn't have a good chance to win. What really makes a mafia team OP is giving them stacked players like that lol. I know drafter replaced in buy still. If you have solid team mates you really can control the narrative and bandwagoning and buddying actually can be viable to prevent your buddy from getting suspicion and control the narrative. In pies game when i was scum with drafter and zaradi for example. I played like spicy dog crap and never got lynched because having drafter and zaradi off my skin really helped us control the narrative to put suspicion on others and weaker/ or rather less confident players wont usually have the ability to convince enough people to follow their reads. Whiteflame and ragnar are good examples, not neccesarily weak but maybe don't trust themselves enough to make a convincing case or to lead a push even though they often have pretty good reads and logic. It will come in time. I didnt see a way for town to win this though in dp2 and figured it would go pretty much they way it did based on the scum team they had.
Created:
Posted in:
I'd say ragnar, speedrace and whiteflame did alright for the most part til they got distracted with that1 last phase. They got scum read or drowned out by worse reads alot unfortunately.
Created:
Posted in:
Must be nice being scum and knowing elminster is town lol. It's basically a free mislynch/mod kill every time.
Created:
Posted in:
That was painful to watch. The most townie people were always among the most scum read lol
Created:
Posted in:
Current Mafia:
Signups:
Danielle- TBD
In the Hopper:
That1User: Animation Chaos Mafia
ILikePie5: U.S. House of Representatives Mafia
Crocodile: Jojo mafia
Elminster
drafterman
Lunatic
MisterChris- WWII
Supadudz
On Hold
zaradi, Virtuoso, PressF4Respect, RM, Bullish, BearMan
Created:
Posted in:
Current Mafia:
SupaDudz -Anime Waifus DP2
Signups:
In the Hopper:
Danielle
That1User: Animation Chaos Mafia
ILikePie5: U.S. House of Representatives Mafia
Crocodile: Jojo mafia
Elminster
drafterman
Lunatic
On Hold
zaradi, Virtuoso, PressF4Respect, RM, Bullish, BearMan
Moving bearman to the hold list since he deactivated his account recently
Created:
Posted in:
Should be fun, lots of themed games. I have one, mike has one, Dani has one I think. Should be a good time.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ILikePie5
My vote still stands cause Speed is being anti-town if he’s town, or is scum.
The dude claimed, what more do you want from him? A role? If so your gonna need a lot more of a case to justify that other than the piss poor discord logic, which didn't even really justify a character claim to begin with lol
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Danielle
First of all, literally nothing about the link you shared to your post indicates any hypocrisy of mine. I'm not sure if you gave the wrong link or not, but nowhere from that page did I say "Discord logic" is a bad reason to pressure someone. I have always said that it's completely fair game and reliance on it is partially why the town sucks without theme analysis or considering outside game clues. We use it way more often than we should. I have complained about this multiple times in the last few weeks. That's why I said I wouldn't have agreed with Mikal to pressure Speed about it had I been online at the time. Which brings me to the next point that I am only going to repeat one final time:I am not voting for Speed because he refused to claim per Mikal's bullshit Discord logic.
In regards to the link and your last line, exactly! That's my point. The link I posted shows me actively resisting pie wanting me to claim, because there is like 0 behavioral basis for the claim. Likewise with mikal's discord logic. You have said multiple times that the discord logic is dumb too, so where you seem to disagree is that refusing to claim in general is scummy. I am showing you how that isn't consistent with your past views in regards to me doing the same thing in Avatar Mafia.
You really can't feign ignorance to it either, because it was kind of a big event. I refused to claim because there was no reason for it other than pie wanted me to. And pie resisted claiming the next phase in defiance and actually let himself get lynched over it. The difference was that there was behavioral reason for pie in dp2, where he never made an argument for me. You defended me on this stance in the endgame, and me and you both lectured pie for it. It led to the meme of you voting pie at the beginning of every day phase. That you are acting ignorant to my point here is baffling.
This is going to be the last thing I say about the subject, but just FYI in that game Luna posted, it was where Luna said he thought scum was one of the people who "liked" his post. That is arguably a ridiculous reason to pressure someone first (PRESSURING SOMEONE WHO WAS ONLINE AT THE TIME SOMEONE LIKED HIS POST) and Speed said so BUT I WENT ALONG WITH IT BECAUSE IT WAS DAY PHASE 1. I said that we had nothing else to go on so it gave us a place to start. Please just read this entire page of my posts from that game.We were right about the person to pressure first for that "BS" reason and btw I was town. So Luna is completely 100% making up that I am somehow exemplifying hypocritical logic. Now I want to FOS him for lying because that whole exchange was very memorable. And that's all I have to say about that.
Your argument is all over the place; If you agree that the discord logic was bas just like the liking post logic was bad, but were okay with me not claiming, why aren't you equally okay with speed not claiming from bad logic? All this is kind of pointless to your FOS since speed actually DID character claim his character before you went into the larger part of your tirade anyway, unless your honestly expecting a full claim from this. If that's the case, your case isn't just all over the place, it's straight in the toilet lol.
I have said in each and every game that we have to start somewhere on DP1. Every DP1 someone whines and throws a hissy fit and refuses to claim because "why should they." THERE IS NO GOOD REASON MOST OF THE TIME. We literally make one up and that's why you completely ignored the example I gave re: Pie voting for whiteflame, because in each and every game you'll find a random or arguably BS reason to pressure someone first. Why should Elminster claim when you pressure him first? What if you voted for him and 4 people hopped on just cuz they figured why not, but he refused to claim because "why should he?" It's straight up anti town to not claim when you have a wagon even if the wagon is built on bullshit. That's how you play the game.
I agree and dis-agree at the same time. I do not think people should automatically claim upon first receiving pressure. And when I pressure people it isn't usually for a claim unless I already think their behavior is lynchable and let them use the claim to potentially change my mind. As you said, I RVS voted elminster, but I never asked him for a claim. If he's willing to claim, we can look into that behaviorally; Why did he claim so willingly? Noobs tend to crack under pressure sooner, which is why you see them claim so early. I don't expect a person like you or drafter to claim simply because you have a few votes on you. Especially if you are a power role. In fact in live mafia you tend to hold out on claiming more than literally everyone, often making it into the later stages and holding onto results. If you do something scummy enough to demand a claim, and multiple people seem to agree at least enough to pressure you to claim, then you claim. Speed does not fall under this circumstance. Speed also was never at risk of being lynched either, if he would have claimed I guarantee you half the people on his wagon would have been like "why did you claim a power role bro you barely had any pressure" and further scum read him for claiming lol. Speed's resistance to claiming feels 100% townie in this circumstance.
You are also lying about me wanting to "mislynch Speed." I don't want to lynch Speed. I'm telling him to claim so he doesn't get lynched and at the same time keeping my promise that I will absolutely vote to lynch someone who refuses to claim when they have a sufficient wagon
Speed has already claimed. Why do you need a role claim from him? I am not lying about anything. I don't know your motivations, I can only interpret that they would be to take advantage of a contentious on and off wagon while the tea pot is still hot. I interpret that as you looking for a mislynch. You throw around the word lying way to easily lol.
I don't cow tow to big personalities who dictate how the game is played by saying "this is what's going to happen," i.e. YYWs style. In Discord Mafia a few weeks ago, Mikal was screaming at me over and over to do something and I literally just said NO you aren't going to get me to listen just because you "said so."
Good for you I guess.
Speed saying "yeah I'm not claiming no matter what - lynch me" is reminiscent of that smug, condescending personality that I can't stand. That's why I'm voting for him. It's a team game. I agree Mikal's reason was nonsense but a wagon started and Speed said he wasn't going to claim regardless of whether or not he had the votes. If you force the mislynch of a townie when you're town solely because you refuse to claim (like Pie did in that game where I ripped him a new asshole) then you're a loser and deserve ridicule. The fact that you think I would yell at Pie and others over this behavior but not Speed is dumb. I'm not going to let him control how the game goes. That's how he makes a fool of everyone all the time. I am perfectly fine lynching a townie who plays like that and I have maintained this exact same position in each game. So no this is not me trying to "mislynch" Speed; I'd unvote him if he claimed. And you haven't proven anything about my alleged hypocrisy. I already said I'm not claiming and don't care if you lynch me for it. That's how we play on DART now.
It's interesting you see him as being smug and condescending, I see none of that. I see someone who is completely justifiable floored by being voted for complete nonsense. I would say "fvck you" to those pressuring me in this circumstance as well, and have before. Regardless of him stating this his frustration with the reason for his FOS he did actually comply, unlike pie in your example. This is why speed is town, and the fact that he claimed despite having no good reason to suits your own argument for why he should be town. The only reason your vote would still be on him at this point is if you were trying to take advantage of the drama and hope for a mislynch.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
Would Danielle's Jailkeep prevent the mafia from carrying out the night kill?
Yes. The way I mod is that I ask the mafia who they want to carry out the night kill. If the person carrying it out is jailed, the kill would be prevented. Thats why NP1 the kill went through since mikal carries it out instead of speed and dani blocked speed.
I told mafia that their roleblock had priority over jailkeep. If the jailer jailed speed and speed roleblocked the jailer, the jailer would instead be roleblocked.
Created:
Posted in:
Ill respond later, gotta do a class for my work. In the meantime I support an extension so we can replace inactives.
Created:
Posted in:
Current Mafia:
SupaDudz -Anime Waifus DP1
Signups:
In the Hopper:
Bullish - Crimes mafia
BearMan- Third Parties Mafia/ Deathnote Part 1 Mafia
Danielle
That1User: Animation Chaos Mafia
ILikePie5: U.S. House of Representatives Mafia
Crocodile: Jojo mafia
Elminster
drafterman
Lunatic
On Hold
zaradi, Virtuoso, PressF4Respect, RM,
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Danielle
I took the same stance as speed here in Avatar mafia, and Danielle was totally cool with it.
VTL danielle.
Her logic isn't consistent, I think she's very desperate for a mislynch dp1. I think speed is the clear choice for a mislynch this phase, because of his comment about not claiming without a behavioral reason. Several people obviously are willing to vote for him the second they think they see strong support, and she probably knows she can use that to herd a mislynch here. Whiteflame and Water for example, despite unvoting at various stages will be very easily convinced to jump back on the wagon here. I scum read that bheavior as well, especially whiteflame who seemingly agreed earlier only to hop back on the wagon afterwards.
Oh lookie here, an actual behavioral reason to vote someone for a claim. How about a claim danielle?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Danielle
On DP1 99% of the time the first person that gets pressured is pressured for a bullshit reason or something that would never fly at any other point. We're always grasping at straws. Why the fuck do I have to explain this every DP1. This is why I'm not even going to post on DP1 anymore.
Is there any reason you can think of, any benefit to someone not claiming to baseless pressure? Why were you okay when I didn't want to be pressured in supa's last game when pie made this same argument?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Danielle
@whiteflame
The problem I have with your arguments is that you are making it seem like he is claiming for the sake of not claiming, which isn't the case. He's not claiming because the basis of forcing him to claim is more than likely a technical glitch on discord. Has nothing to do with behavior in the slightest. If I was in his situation I'd probably take a "Fuck you" stance on claiming as a matter of principal. as well.
"Again I'm voting for you because you said you'd be lynched before you claim. That is not pro town."
If the town are forcing claims based on out of game stuff, then fvck the town. Refusing to claim is pro town when there is a behavioral basis for the pressure. But I don't agree that refusing to claim in this circumstance is anti town. It's not even in the same ball park of "not pro town" as grey parrots popular townie maneuver or mikal getting himself fvcking mod killed or begging people to lynch him because he doesn't feel like defending himself against slight pressure lol.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@That1User
Why would lynching be better here?
Numbers, we have a lot of players here. Narrowing them down, even if hitting town would be optimal. But with mikals mod kill we can afford the vtnl I suppose.
Created:
Posted in:
vtnl
Lynching would probably be better here, but I am not about to lead one til im at work.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Speedrace
Not sure what to make of WF or Water, but WF sticks out the most because he's suddenly null on me? Not that I'm complaining but I find that strangeWater on the other hand sounded like he jumped on not really reading and then read, then unvoted
HE seems slightly more aggressive than his last scum game, maybe taking advice from you guys?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@That1User
Do you find WF's unvote scummy too?
I find whiteflame slightly scummy, but I was getting that vibe before he unvoted. I don't wanna focus too much on scumreading the wagon, there is logic to it. I generally agree with obstinance in claiming being scummy, but like I said, it's a case to case basis and I don't see a world where scum speed doesn't just comply here.
I think we should probably pressure some of the boonies, I can see supa wanting to make one of them scum with a couple of experienced players.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@WaterPhoenix
isn't he just shouting that he's a super powerful power role at this point then?
Maybe, but that means he should claim? For all we know he is a vanilla. Any claim gives mafia POE information, unless we are mass claiming, or have a justifiable reason to vote him I don't much see the point in forcing it.
Created:
Posted in:
Waters unvote is scummy, he was all too willing to pressure speed until a second person took speeds side here lol. I mean not much other than my defense of speed changed between where he voted him in 263 and unvoted him in 275 lol.
I can see water bandwagoning as town but that sh1t is... wow.
Created:
Posted in:
Scum as talented as me would've claimed by now,
This x1000
Not just stroking his ego either, even though that would be justified with how well he kicked @ss in the last game.
Created:
Posted in:
On the refusal to claim thing; I don't think everyone should get a pass for pulling the "I'm not claiming under any circumstance" argument. I think you have to weigh it in each situation and I feel forcing speed to claim here will be a mistake based on the way he is behaving. I don't see him doing this as scum. Hell in my game he claimed way too readily as scum. If anyone can think of a fake claim it's fvcking speed. Dude is a mastermind as scum. If he's not claiming, it's for a pro town reason. And if he is forced to claim he is probably just gonna lie as town either way. Seems pointless.
Created:
Posted in:
I'm not super caught up; I assume where talking about the same thing we've been talking about all day, and that's still about getting speed to claim. Speed's behavior seems incredibly townie to me right now, his reaction to the pressure, to mikal, etc. I feel like pressuring him for a claim will end up being a mistake, and that if he was a low risk role he probably would have claimed at this point.
Inb4 "Well who do you suggest we lynch"
I don't have one yet, only have skimmed the game. Probably won't be super active til I'm at work. All these new games I wanna play during my weekend. I'll be around though and checking in.
Created:
Posted in:
mikes probably town, and I still wanna lynch him.. Plus he can play his new game. No offense mike but I don't wanna deal with cringe logic all game.
vtl elmin
Created:
Posted in:
I deleted the stand mafia PM earlier, way before this one started
Created:
Posted in:
This was probably one of the most active mafia pm's I've ever seen btw lol. and I've seen 5 and 6 man mafia teams lol
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Vader
I know how to mod
Did you tell people to confirm yet? Cuz they probably don't know.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
Also, having such an open-ended tailor defeats the purpose of making the game semi-open. Town has no real way of actually figuring out which possibility they are in.
Kind of. Didnt know how much they would use the role or if they even would since to use it they would also have to risk being investigated by one of the many investigators or even get jailed. Speed was like everything they had. If rag had got a cop off on him at any point then they were screwed since he opted to use the tailor over the lawyer.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
The tailor role ive known and understand is that it gives mafia full reign to tamper a body without really any parameters. Thats at least the one i remember from DDO.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
I did luck out in getting Ragnar NP2. Having cop in mason PM to feed results to is a GREAT boon.
That was huge. Also funny because you almost waived it lol
Created:
Posted in:
Btw I am surprised no one guessed at a tailor based on the fact that I always post flips as soon as a person dies in every other game I've ever hosted lol.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@MisterChris
Yeah fair enough, just didn't work out for me tho. Probably also contributed to my lynching. People didn't have much behavior to go off of, so the little I had said/questioned was enough to get me lynched even without Drafter revealing Ragnar got a guilty on me.
You were also victim of circumstance, speed was in a really good place based on the jailkeep from danielle dp1 (which was extremely lucky for them that they had mikal carry out the kill) and the tailor making town think there was 2 scum left and you not being quick hammered when drafter voted you meant that you would have had to have been scum logically.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
Dude, I knew he was scum at that point because I know that's something you'd never say. If only because you don't believe anyone is good or bad at mafia and it is primarily luck-based!
Yeah lol definitely something I wouldn't have said. Mafia I think is definitely based on a lot of luck, but I do recognize bad players from time to time and the great ones who have IQ's that are made for this type of game, like bluesteel, raisor, and yraelz who are definitely really good consistently.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@MisterChris
I think this was the fastest game I ever hosted. 5 Day phases in less than 72 hours lol. People were active though, and lynches went through fast. And if I had all night actions in, I saw no reason to delay the day phase.
Created: