Lunatic

https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/4873/post-links/205681

This is what changed. He gave us a headroom of 4 vanillas. Plus, the more I think about it, the less Warren claiming vanilla as scum makes sense... I'm maintaining suspicion on Warren, but he is nearer to null territory rn for me. 

Problem is, Pie only asked Bullish to clarify only AFTER I pressured Pie on it quite a bit.

Was he expecting push back, or was he going to ask Bullish for clarification anyway and decided to delay for more town cred?

Neither of those make much sense. Warren was inactive for a while, and it seemed to me like Pie was entirely willing to lynch him within that time. He had no reservations about it at all, which seems like unnecessary risk for the scum team. I mean, who was to say everyone wouldn't just go along with it before Warren got back? I probably would've if it weren't for the fact I'm vanilla.

Plus, if they were scum team, why not have Warren claim something not so scummy? Something obviously fitting the rolemadness. I mean, Bullish said he would be hinting as to which roles were available for the scum team to claim... Pie is smart, so why would he take that risk? 

The only other possibility was that since Warren hadn't read the day phases, he simply false claimed something random without really thinking about it too hard because he was worried, and Pie just bussed him from there. From my limited experience with Warren, doesn't seem like something he would do. 

I find it odd, yes. That is part of the reason that, even though a Pie/Warren team doesn't make much sense to me, I think it is worth maintaining some suspicion on Warren. 

Of course, it could just be a genuine town read for him. If Pie is 50/50 scum or town power role, Warren could certainly make the case for town Pie based on nuances in behavior.

Is it not obvious to you? 

That’s why I used a hypothetical rather than an imperative

I might also say that my role offers indirect evidence of SCUM recruitment

If I am right, then skitz is the likely recruiter and should be prioritized

VTL skittlez09

If we want to move on this, Optimal play is lynching Skitlez. If he’s scum then Intel has to be scum cause he’s lying about his role. If he’s still RB and town then Intelligence has to be lying. If we lynch Intel and he’s scum it doesn’t confirm Skitlez

I said that it could be a variant where that person doesn't lose their role. My role has a variant. The bottom stuff would be in theory false. I included the only true thing I thought. I think this role is a variant of a mimic. There are already variants in game with danielle, my role, and I think this is a variant

So yeah, I am Deepfake and I am a mimic. If I mimic a town I become their role. If I mimic a scum I become a towie. I mimic'd Skittlez and I became a roleblocker. That would mean he is town. 

https://epicmafia.fandom.com/wiki/Mimic

Why wouldn’t I drop to null? Bullish confirmed it’s possible to have multiple vanillas. In his last game he had multiple vanillas. If you want to sus Warren for his flip flop that’s fine with me. I adjusted my viewpoint based on Bullish.

I actually agree with this, now thinking about it Pie could easily use his mod psyching stuff as scum

I don't agree that Warren is scum tho

Chris on the other hand, counterclaimed Warren. I still somewhat believe that there is only one vanilla. But, we will have to see in the coming DP's.

Warren- null at the moment. 

If you'll recall what I said to Pie and Supa:

Well, even though Pie was wrong that "no one can be vanilla," the mod has said that there must very few non-power roles.

If that's the case, it makes more sense to me to have one vanilla... not two. But I could be wrong about that. It's clear Bullish is defying our expectations here. 

As for the possibility of him and Pie being a team... his argument for Pie being a townread makes sense I suppose... I'm just not sure if it's an argument expected from him given the current situation (keep in mind I've not played with Warren at all. I don't know what his meta is for town or scum).

Pie- Pie is my biggest scumread at the moment, because he is lining up pretty closely with how he was in the Naruto mafia game. 

Furthermore, I pretty much agree with Supa's analysis: 

Behavioral analysis for Pie for me if he's active he's a power role or scum for me. So he's one of those two.

If we have even a 60/40 shot he is mafia, I'll take it. 

Because I hadn't read D1 when I made the initial read, like I said, and I had read D1 before answering your question, also like I said.

Intel gave claim and night action in the same post.  How could absorb role claim and not night action claim>

Did you mimic anyone

lynch all liars:

https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/4873/post-links/205699

I will preface this by saying I powered through D1 and might be changing my mind on that I want to talk about some stuff with Pie but:

It was mostly a gut read but the way he'd been talking made me tone read him town

Specifically because of how bloodthirsty for vanillas this group is. They don't seem to care that Bullish said it could be up to four vanillas, they still seem to think that at least one of me and Mr. Chris is scum because we both claimed vanilla. I think it's bad for vanillas to claim at this point in a vacuum, but with how stubborn the group seems to be about making a bad play I think vanillas almost have to claim here or risk being killed when they do come forward.

scum slip

Why is it strange? It’s boring. I’ve been pretty vocal about that. There’s a reason why my games are proper role madness games.

It makes it more likely that at least one of em is town. 

This is in regard to skittlez's roleblocker claim. I agree that it's good he was upfront if he's town but it doesn't seem that that was *why* he was upfront. Does that bother you at all? It does bother me a bit.

That said, if there are any more vanillas, you should probably full claim immediately. I know this helps mafia narrow down the pool of who to kill, but with how bloodthirsty these people are for vanillas I think you essentially have to full claim. I honestly will start to become suspicious of anyone who full claims vanilla after too long because it's become such an issue that anyone who is actually vanilla would be concerned enough that they would (and should) claim before the end of the day.

Pie is probably town in my opinion. He's certainly not vanilla in case that wasn't yet clear, but based on meta he's also probably not a town negative utility role. He's either scum or town and has a positive utility.

If by aggressive you mean active, I’m always active when I have a role. You can WIFOM that all day.

Bullish’s definition of rolemadness is stupid. Speed doesn’t have vanillas in his rolemadness games and neither do I. I’ve been a supporter of first day lynches since the beginning. I supported the lynches of Chris and Warren cause they both were vanilla. Using mine and Speed’s definition they’re both scum which is where the bussing theory comes in. The definition Bullish uses is garbage. I know not to play in any of his games now even if he says rolemadness 

Is the mission of invading a nation aborted if the king that hasn't done anything was known to be just replaced? No. If he does nothing he is dead, common common sense sense.

He should be able to do something. If this character did nothing the whole day then it is vtl for inactivity.

Specifically in the case of callout threads, to try to prevent the forums turning into a toxic cesspit. Granted, I can outright admit not all callout threads are equally bad. Similarly, just because two members are not getting along, even if reports are filed, does not guarantee moderation intervention (the vast majority of "reports have been handled" on posts, did not yield even a PM to anyone).

I don't know if you've ever had a stalker before, but just ignoring someone being deranged toward you, spreading rumors of you commiting crimes, etc., is in some cases a very sub-optimum solution. While perhaps not rewarding the abuser, it does very little to dissuade them from continuing toward you and/or seeking more victims.

To use another thing moderation steps in against: We ban spambots and delete their posts. While user could likewise just ignore the spam, the occasional clicks generated by their links could encourage the spammers to up their efforts here, and flood us... I suspect people come here because there is moderation intervention when necessary.

I've done a lot to loosen the rules. You can joke, you can be impolite. However, there are still lines that that can be crossed.

That1 is Brit?

did u ever confirm your wincon?

yuck

Would you say its likely 2 scum/1 TP in an 11p game?

I would like to hear Lunatic and Danielle talk about "roles with pre-game actions"  have you seen this type of game before?  Any roles or game standards particularly associated with pre-game actions.   I am clueless about what pre-game actions might portend.

Holy sh you're good at BeatSaber