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@SirAnonymous
Yep. I hope he sees something the rest of us haven't, because no one seems to have any scum reads yet. Kinda makes me suspect you and Speed because you two are the best at seeming town.
I am surprised you seem to think that; I generally feel like I get scum read in every game I play no matter what affiliation I am. It's kind of the whole reason I made the pattern account.
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@SirAnonymous
Moving on to the next inactive? I've been considering doing that. Think I'll join you.
Yep, he says he is catching up, just adding a little incentive lol
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@SirAnonymous
What are your opinions on Croc's claim?
I suppose it's testable so there's no reason to lynch it. If he is town I am guessing this is a role heavy game.
unvote. VTL mharman
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@oromagi
The trouble with just quick lynching croc is he might not warn us if he's something useful like COP
We aren't trying to quick lynch him, it's been stated several times that anyone who tries to hammer will be suspected. We are waiting for him to get on and claim.
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@oromagi
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@Crocodile
day phase is stalled waiting for you. Please full claim.
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@Vader
Exactly, but with a 5/7 hammer, it is fairly possible that 2 scum hammer, hence why I say we should hold off on that much lynch pressure til he comes on.
Same thing I said to chris here: if someone quick hammers that only tells us who to lynch tomorrow, I don't see the problem. Its been said multiple times that we need a role claim first so if someone hammers first then its a win because we know who to lynch tomorrow.
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@Vader
No, but why rush a lynch now when we can discuss more. I wanted to bring other thoughts and perspectives. I do recall you saying bandwagons are becoming more and more lazy on DART. I do think Croc is the best lynch, I just don't feel confident that he's scum yet, but like I said, you are convincing me otherwise. I'm not ready to hammer
No one is rushing the lynch or encouraging a hammer. We have plenty of time to discuss. The day phase is currently stalled because we are waiting on croc to comply
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@SirAnonymous
All this is to say I kind of agree with you that for all we know the PM structure mess up was laziness. However it also works out the other way, he could have equally been too lazy as scum to read the previous claims of how the structure went, and only read t hat first post from oro and made a guess. Or didn't understand the implications of it.
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@SirAnonymous
Oh look at that I guess he did correct it. Didn't see that.
Also, why were you saying that was the principle reason for his lynch wagon even though you also agreed with me that it was probably just a mistake due to laziness than a scum tell?
I said "if hes town" then it was a mistake due to laziness. I also said it could be a scum mistake.
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@Vader
Do you prefer everyone sit around and fluff talk all day phase and only try to lynch during the last day of the phase? I mean we found scummy behavior in someone and are giving them time to react. No one is talking about hammering him or fishing for a ton of different claims.
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@Vader
I with agree with most of that. But I'd also say that this compares more toward an undercover cop arresting and interrogating the criminal, but the cop can't do much more because he was found out as a cop, so his face is known
Do you consider pressure to be just votes or questions asked? What specifically don't you like about applying pressure?
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@Vader
I take pressure in a negative connotation, peer pressure, wind pressure, a lot of negatives. This is positive pressure, but there's a word for it
What about when a cop pressures a suspect for details about a murder? That type of pressure is more relevant to this situation.
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@Vader
Because I saw no harm and no benefits. If I said the same thing Croc did, I'd argue it makes no different. And even with the wincon statement, the different between Win with town and Win with the town is so astronomically small, that is might be bastard, but barely noticeable and readable. I find it asinine to even have the whole chat
Well croc has had plenty of chances to come in and correct us, to even say something like "Whoops here's what my actual PM says". Almost seems like he is giving up.
Mikal is more socially aware than I think Croc is in general. And while you do have a point, I want to bolster the community to join mafia and have these fun 13 person games, but that's a theory topic that I don't wanna deep into. But anyway, I don't think the same, switch my attitude approach will happen with Croc.You are leaning me more toward a Croc lynch as well
I am not trying to pressure you into lynching croc by any means, I am just defending the reasons why he is being lynched. If your gut is telling you he is town I understand. I myself am not sold he is scum, but I see the benefits to the lynch either way.
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@Vader
That gave mafia a lot of confidence in general
You are right. Mafia were so confident that game. So confident that they quit dp2 lmao
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@Vader
But then again, if this person is put in the pressure, then outs himself as a power role, that means the town is now in a much bigger hole than they were now. I am not opposed to pressure at all, but in DP1, I think it should try to be avoided. In Naruto Mafia, there was a lot of pressure everywhere and that led to most of the roles being outed besides Doc and Demi God and Vanilla. That gave mafia a lot of confidence in general
The person being pressured has some responsibility about whether or not they claim. Making grey tracker for example, while knowing he always claims his role dp1, you can't be surprised at that. If I have a power role and I am being pressured, I am going to argue my out of the FOS and only claim if it's that or death for example.
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@Vader
That's the main cause for all of this? I don't read into that whole fiasco. I think that sometimes mods can say different things in general and don't have a preference or specifically state it. Not gonna mod psyche, but I don't think that Pie is that type of mod to do that at all or put that much fought into a You win with the town.
So far, he is the only one who has claimed to have a different win con statement, so it would be pretty bastard if Pie did him like that. If you didn't think there was anything to the IWWTT's, why did you claim yours when oro asked instead of saying this to him from the get go?
You have a fair point, but it just seems like a lynch could go wrong if he has a power role in general.
This is why we are waiting for a role claim.
While yes, his fault, and we can rip in endgame, taking that risk is huge. I think his behaviors are bad, but to have a DP1 policy on him isn't the best strategy is to win with town is your wincon
He can stop this at any point, by ya know, participating lol.
Yea now I think your town. This is the same thing you did in live mafia when Mikal was just wagoning Max, you decide to instate a policy lynch on him as town. I don't know it that will solve bad behavior. For Mikal, he is experience and knows he's doing something stupid versus Croc, who will do the same thing because he thinks he's right. Then the cycle of DP1 lynches on him continues where he flips town and then we bitch and yell
Funnily enough with that example you mentioned, Mikal actually did change his behavior after that. The next time he played he said he wasn't going to do it anymore because it was making people mad. Also if you end up getting lynched every game, your gonna get to a point where it's not fun, and that itself will force you to play better so you can actually enjoy the game you are playing. That or he's gonna quit, which is also fine with me. This is a team game, if you aren't going to be a team player, don't play. I've done it time and time again. We had to do it with a player named royal paladin who was just as stubborn, and she got exiled from the mafia community by acting that way. Even greyparrot has been getting better than he was late last year if you've noticed.
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@Vader
I see pressuring as an act of creation, it's a great way to create content and generate readsI saw this from That1 and kinda got a bad feel. I only use pressure when it is a L-1, when a result comes back that suggets their mafia. Putting pressure on a group of people causes paranoia. While I did say, fair point, I somewhat disagree. Conversational that leads to VTL'ing is much different than pressuring someone.Am I the only one that takes pressure as a negative tool?
That1user is objectively right with that statement though. If you are town, and know you are innocent, do you have a reason to be paranoid? Paranoia is a tell of someone who has something to hide. Pressure is not a negative tool if there is reason behind it. Voting and pressure is the only way to sus out scum.
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@Vader
I'm not even sure why the Croc lynch is happening besides what Lunatic says, and even that, there's such a weak reasoning behind it that I don't find it viable to lynch him at all.
The main reason he is being lynched is that he messed up the IWWTT statement. The rest is just extra reasons.
Furthermore, I don't think that Croc is the best lynch target right now until he expresses some behavior.
And how do you force behavior out of someone? By applying pressure right? Also you just modded a game with croc playing, what behavior did anyone ever get out of him in that game other than lurky/laziness?
Right now, his non complicity with town is a concern,
He got on, saw he was at 5/7, and rather than claim, or adress the concerns he says "hm ok"
but that is how Croc somewhat plays as town, and while I think it's detrimental, I am not fond with the idea of lynching right now until he shows more behavioral patterns to warrant a lynch on him right now. I wan't to dive in deeper
Letting him continue to get away with detrimental behavior is going to allow you to "dive in deeper"?
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@MisterChris
Well not completely. You said we shouldn't swing the lynch hammer until he gave role. I don't want to bring it up to 6/7 to set up the lynch hammer. But yeah, basically same thing
I didn't say anything about bringing him to L-1. If he is a believable power role were not lynching him at all, we will just have to bite the bullet on his un-helpfulness and hope he can be good with getting us results assuming we believed the claim.
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@Barney
@ILikePie5
@That1User
I thought I screwed up by not announcing or even hinting I was investigating Pie, looks like that wasn't even needed since town concluded Pie was mafia anyway
Speaking of this, turns out my "conspiracy theory" was correct. I definitely thought it felt weird that ragnar jumped to the conclusion that his roleblock was the reason there wasn't an extra kill. But the wierder part was that pie didn't counter this and claimed immediately after ragnar pointed this out. I was thinking "It seems wierd pie didn't fight this harder" given all the possibilities of what could have happened that night. Obviously the soldier claim was the part that was the nail in the coffin. So I am assuming you guys killed that1user though, correct?
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@Greyparrot
Why? I would just be repeating what pie says.
Answering publicly gets into a grey area about confirming roles. If he wants to town confirm you I won't complain, I am just saying he is more likely to respond privately.
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@MisterChris
With the whole phase we run less risk of a mislynch. Not that mislynching Croc would be a huge loss, but given the extra time we could potentially uncover tells that lead to a more certain scum candidate.You do make a good point though, if I bring it up to 6/7 that last person is highly sus.
Like I said, not arguing that we should end the phase early. I would like croc's role before he is potentially lynched anyway.
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@Vader
What's IWWTT
I Win With The Town. We used to abbreviate it when lie detectors were more common on DDO.
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@MisterChris
I can understand wanting to use the whole phase, but the logic of "mafia will jump on the wagon hard" isn't that a good thing lol? If you think hammering and ending the phase early is scummy indicates a mafia member, seems if town you would want someone to do that to give you something to read into.
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@Greyparrot
I imagine you'd have to ask that privately for you to get an answer lol
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I am mostly null reading many people right now, so I won't make a full reads lists, but here are the town reads I have picked up on so far. You can call it my town bloc.
SirAnon- Feels town to me, genuine, wanting to use the rest of the day phase. Nothing rubbing me wrong yet, though I know he is fully capable of fooling me.
Greyparrot- I wanna say town but I will admit I don't have much strong to back this up; Knowing grey his general strategy of late seems to be early claiming, though I have no reason to doubt he would do it as scum based on his comments last game. Grey actually did feel pretty townie in the last game, and I am pretty sure that's the most useful I've ever seen him so if he ends up playing like that again I will know for sure. But if he's scum, his claim is hella risky. The problem with him claiming hated is that mafia will likely leave him alive, and if he's alive in a LYLO situation that would spell game over for town. It's a big brained play if he' s scum, and not that I don't think he's capable of being big brained, I just don't think he is willing to pull those kind of risks. Last mafia game I hosted with him as scum and speed as his partner, he went with his actual character which resulted in him getting lynched. Grey doesn't take risks like that. So this makes me think he is town, though if he is town and left alive by mafia, that is going to be really unfortunate.
Supa- More bad logic, but here goes: he was the first to claim the IWWTT statement. I don't remember as mafia in pie's narcos game if he gave us the town IWWTT statement, but I don't think he did. If I am wrong here I'd be passing off supa as town for something dumb I realize, but it definitely looks good for him.
As of right now I would not consider a lynch on any of these people.
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@Greyparrot
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@SirAnonymous
Oh, come on! That was a great ending.
Speed played really well yes lol
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@TNBinc
Look at his story. He got drunk and then dueled out 4 hours on black desert. How would he be able to do that
How old are you? Do you understand how alcohol works lol
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@SirAnonymous
I wish we had someone aggressive like Bullish or Zaradi playing. Playing aggressively isn't objectively better, but it did tend to get things going. I actually thought about changing my style to be more aggressive going into this game because I guessed a slow start would be a problem, but I don't think I could pull it off if I wanted to.
No fear, Lunatic is here! And I will undoubtedbly be called "aggressive" multiple times this game, whether it's true or not. Because large and lenghty posts and back and forths =/= Aggressiveness to these people lol
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@SirAnonymous
I don't think it means much. For all we know, he could have just been to lazy to write the "the".
If he ends up being town, this will 100% be the case. He admitted he was lazy in the last game, and boy that was an understatement. He was town, and he could have got me mislyched if he had actually read his full role PM. For context I was a vanilla, and he was a mimic. He copied me and became vanilla. That actually worked out in town's favor, however when the endgame came up it was revealed that his full PM said that if he visits mafia, he also turns vanilla. So if he had said that I would have for sure been a mislynch. That's just some context to his laziness, though in that case it worked out in town's favor as it really was just a coincidence he targetted a vanilla. I only recently came back to mafia here, but in stormlight he was also incredibly inactive.
All this is to say I kind of agree with you that for all we know the PM structure mess up was laziness. However it also works out the other way, he could have equally been too lazy as scum to read the previous claims of how the structure went, and only read t hat first post from oro and made a guess. Or didn't understand the implications of it.
Either way, and this is coming from someone who in general argues against policy based lynches, I think croc should be lynched, not just for the affiliation mess up, but because last game was an object lesson in how useless he will be. If he has a role claim that is useful to town, I may be willing to re-consider, but the only way we are going to dis-courage this lazy behavior is to punish it. From the last game he didn't seem to care one way or the other about people having an issue with it, and he was almost lynched because of it. If he ended up being lynched, I also would have been lynched because his role pm, and his laziness would have ultimately hurt town really bad. I am not dealing with that again, and think there is way more as of right now to suggest he is a good lynch than a bad one barring his role claim doesn't save him.
VTL Crocodile.
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@Greyparrot
To avoid another potential ending similar to that in the office mafia, can you clarify with the mod if you remain hated in MYLO/LYLO?
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@Crocodile
Did you read your role PM carefully? I know you didn't in the last game.
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@That1User
We need to find the theme split then\I'm liking the good vs. bad general theme initially
I think good vs bad is kind of a grey area in this theme tainted by modern biased outlooks on slavery.
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@Speedrace
Hahaha, funnily enough I just lost two games as scum for the first time in ages (live mafia but mafia nonetheless) on Friday
I think that epic win me and you had made up for those two losses lol
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About to catch up but one thing I will say is that figuring out a theme split is going to probably be impossible in a pie game. In narcos it was pretty out there and no one was even close to figuring it out if I remember correctly.
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@oromagi
Union, Win with the town. Didn't expect the game to start so soon, got drunk and dueled max for like 4 hours in Black Desert online last night lol.
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@SirAnonymous
umm not to fluff further but is that profile pic solaire with a zweihander form dark souls?
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@SirAnonymous
I know what you mean, but I still have an amazing record of a 0% success rate in scumhunting. For those of you who weren't around when I was, this isn't an exaggeration. I have only voted against scum twice: once when they conceded, and once when they failed to vote in LYLO, so the only person I could vote out was them. Hopefully, I break this streak this DP.
tbh win record doesn't mean sh1t to me. Well with town at least. There's so many different variables with reading people, that even the best town players tend to have pretty random win rates. As long as you stick to being a townie who listens to reason, offers counter reasons in cases where he doesn't believe someone instead of just sticking to gut, and evaluates everything and considers it, i dont care about win records. Most if it comes down to trusting your team and your ability to convince your team as town. Only as mafia do you have some monicker of real control lol
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@SirAnonymous
Yep, you're drunk. ;)
I mean yeah but you are a good player. You don't bandwagon, you're an independent thinker, and your conservative and don't jump to conclusions; that automatically makes you better than half the DART mafia community atm lmao
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@SirAnonymous
omg im so happy your playing btw. I'll try to suppress my excitement in the future, but you were one of the better mafia players and our community took a hit when you left.
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drunk af, won't post anything substantive til tomorrow afternoon. Love yall
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@Bullish
You're so conspicuous, I didn't even follow the game and I heavily suspected Pattern was you the moment I saw your name on the roster. New account right after Lunatic got closed? Named after a character in the Stormlight archives right after you modded a game with that theme? Came to this site just to play mafia? Come on.
I'm so conspicuous I fell out of character half way through the day phase lol. No I can't stay in character I realize that, which is ultimately why I just came out with it. I've always wanted to try a new account for mafia, but never did it because I thought I would be identified too easily because I can't resist just typing and talking the way I normally . I wasn't actually identified by anyone publicly though (other than the mods who knew privately), but I probably would have been after not long. Though a couple people have mentioned they had no clue.
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@WaterPhoenix
what...happened...? i went to go do some classes and eat and i came back to...unfortunate.
Mafia rage quit a game they had in the bag lmao
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@Greyparrot
Bearman cause i was convinced rag and bear were scum. I had no read on pie at all.
Oh actually bearman was ninja. That would have made bear look good lol. This is more evidence that mafia totally could have had this game in the bag if they didn't quit.
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