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@coal
After how many times you said I am not today's lynch? lol
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@sui_generis
this is the last day of the phase i think
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@Danielle
Yeah I've got my vote on sui atm for just that reason.
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@Barney
gotcha. I'll consider Coal more carefully, though I still think he has displayed town motivations more than not, I have a couple things nagging at me about him that I have been pushing off to the side.
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@Danielle
Anyway I don't think being conservative is necessarily a bad thing, but I don't recall this being your play style.
Not to sound all humble sauce or anything, but I try to switch up my play style frequently to see what works and what doesn't. I've been aggressive, and I've been more conservative in games as town lately. I was ultra aggressive in The Office mafia as town for example, and was wrong on quite a lot of my reads. Also my play-style depends largely on the crowd. This game has a lot of veterans who know what they were doing. DART lately has a lot of either lazy, inactive, or just younger kids who play and I've kind of had to play more of an aggressive lynch pursuant role. I have a greater respect for the individuals playing in this game, I realize scum have a higher potential to fool me than the normal crowd, and I am constantly second guessing my reads because of it. Even with coal for example, at face value I keep wanting to insist to myself he is town, but a small part of my brain is nagging at me that I am being fooled.
It's actually more of my play style. But it just seemed like if you were scum, maybe you figured out a way to win the game if we delayed lynching Ragnar a day (with Objectivity being mod killed). I know you had been working out the math so suddenly thinking maybe we should NL when Ragnar is playing so sus IMO stood out.
At the end of the day, I'll repeat what I said before, I think the benefit of waiting on Ragnar beats lynching him. If he's a power role, we are just shooting ourselves in the foot for no reason, and if he's scum, a flip or two will all but confirm he is lying as we will learn what set up we are in sooner rather than later.
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@Barney
You have coal listed as your top scum read on your list, but you are voting sui?
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@Danielle
How do I respond to your post? Do I need to do HTML or something?
Do you mean how to qoute? Just copy past the part your qouting, highlight it, and click the two little qoutation mark symbol
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Lunatic seems scummier to me regardless of Ragnar's affiliation actually. This isn't a strong read but there's something about his posts re: Ragnar that don't feel right. Ragnar's playing reads scummy, so if Ragnar is in fact innocent, then I would suspect Lunatic for not jumping on the obvious target (allowing me to drive focus on Ragnar instead). However if Ragnar is scum, then Lunatic trying to draw away from lynching him just seems too obvious. Not only did he suggest a NL earlier (fair enough if he's okay with that in general)
Got it, too conservative for you. I should tunnel vision more, yeah that's the more town like thing to do huh?
but #1 lynching today gives us info
Less concerned about that after Objectivity's death, we have info already.
and #2 he was like "If you can't see why I'm not voting Ragnar today, I dunno what to tell you" or something like that. Dude... he blatantly claimed a power role lol or alluded to having a power role. So yes, we all get why you unvoted and why you insist on not voting him today.
Forgive me for not openly speculating about the mans power role for any un-suspecting mafia members who may not have read the claim, or who were too inactive to catch it.
It just seems too convenient. Admittedly whichever way Ragnar flips isn't gonna make me suspect Lunatic less now (sorry) but I just wanted to throw this out there in case I die during the night.
Whatever. I'm kinda okay being slightly scum read in games like these, but not scum read enough to justify lynching. Guarantees longevity, I am less likely to be night killed early if scum think I am a potential mislynch.
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@User_2006
Because people who don't frequent the games forum who might wanna play won't see it.
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We will be doing some live mafia friday! I'll post the discord link soon for those who don't have it. I am thinking 7pm central should be a decent time to start. Hope to see you there!
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@sui_generis
@oromagi
Ya here that lads? Get yer butts in here and opine!
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Coal as much as you think you are understanding I don't think you are. But that's okay.
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im not gonna answer 548, I think my 550 is answer enough for now.
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@coal
btw I am not jumping to conclusions about ragnar. With what he said, I feel it's 100% a bad idea to lynch him. The harm of him being lynched unnecessarily as town outweighs the risk of letting him live an extra day or two just for him to in-evitably die when it comes to fruition that he was lying, if indeed he is. I am not even sure his behavior should be accounted for in this scenario, bar him outright admitting he is scum.
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@coal
Do you want me to openly theorize with you about this? Kind of feels too late, but doing so will give out a lot of information to anyone who might have not potentially picked up on it yet.
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I am trying to decide if airmax's reaction to YYW's post, where airmax OMGUS'd him is scummy enough to dismiss the slight town nod I had from assuming a scum buddy would have told him he wasn't the prime lynch candidate as he thought he was.
Alternatively if he is scum, he could be playing the naivety up. Or his scum buddy could be someone equally inactive like sui or oro. Food for thought.
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well back to the drawing board.
VTL sui. For much of the same reason as the pressure on ragnar. I can't pin a read on him and that bothers me, he's been relatively absent from the day phase.
Second to him If we were going to lynch, my choices would be between airmax and oro until they give me a reason to think they are town. Kind of going off POE at this point, everyone else is in the town bloc.
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@coal
Yes, but then why hasn't Ragnar been playing like he has that role? If Ragnar is scum then he knows the setup and he knows which power role is not on the table that he can fake claim to dodge the lynch; and we are early enough in the DP that he can get away with that.
It depends on which role you think ragnar is I guess. But there is one set up if your theory on zaradi is right, where the playstyle kind of makes sense. Regardless it WILL become clear if it's a lie in later day phases, almost undoubtedly.
The only world in which I see Ragnar as having any role other than vanilla is where he is a mason with Max; an option I think is fairly clear is not viable.
Why airmax? The only connection I can see is airmax dismissal of ragnar due to DP1 being pointless. But if that's the case, then whatever you think zaradi is, is wrong.
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@coal
Well I'll just spell it out. I think Ragnar's soft claim is a cheap form of derailment bullshit because Zaradi is the only person I see so far that has been playing like he has that role.
One of the other set up options gives the possibility of them both being town if your theory about zaradi is correct though.
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@coal
And you are 100% sure Zaradi doesn't have what he just claimed to have?
?? I think I know what you are saying. Regardless, by nature of the set up, it will reveal itself in later day phases if it's a lie.
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Unvote. If you need me to explain why I won't. Just read ragnars last post and if that doesn't answer why I'm unvoting then you wont be getting any follow up from me on the matter.
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@Danielle
TUF, I'm surprised you'd vote no lynch. This seems out of character... noted.
It's not out of character at all actually. One of the biggest mafia theory debates I've ever had on DDO was with drafterman about whether the standard to no lynch dp1 at the time was better than lynching dp1 all the time. I was against lynching DP1. While I have kind of conformed a bit to being okay with lynching DP1, I still prefer a more conservative playstyle.
What's discord? I'd be down to play Live mafia. I feel like I threw that out at the start of quarantine somewhere. For awhile I was so friggin bored but I've been busy this last week. A Friday night might be good cuz my partner's probably gonna be working so I won't feel bad about ignoring her.
Discord is a chat site that we've found works a bit better than google hangouts. For one, you can have more than ten people. Also the quality is very good and its free.
Create an account on discord.gg and I'll send you the link to my discord channel. I'll message some people and see who'se down for Friday.
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@Danielle
We should still have 3 mislynches even with the objectivity mis hap
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To be clear, even with the modkill, there is precisely one world where advocating for a NL is an option, and that's at MYLO where town legitimately has no idea what to do. To, again, be clear, we're not in that world. We never no lynch D1. Absent an actual wagon to analyze, Objectivity's flip doesn't actually give us a lot of information to go off of. NLing give scum a free pass out of the dayphase.
We are at 8 v 2.
Mislynch, nk 6 v 2
Mislynch, nk 4 v 2
Mislynch, nk 2 v 2
Seems we still have 3 mislynches, so whoever did the math earlier was wrong. I was under the assumption we only had one more after this, in which case I definitely didn't want the game to potentially end after DP2. You can dis-agree with me about that if you want, I don't really care. Your reputation shows you when you are out-witted you won't respond lol.
VTL Ragnar.
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@coal
It is way too early for that. I will UNVOTE for now, but saying that we're just going to VTNL is premature.What do you think of the fact that Max thinks we are scum buddies?rofl
I figured it was a joke. He is probably mock astonished that I was defending you against his OMGUS read on you, given our history of dis-agreement. If it isn't a joke, well I suppose I am curious to hear his thoughts.
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@Danielle
Where do you play Live Mafia? That's what I thought this was. I thought we were setting up a Live game during quarantine because everyone was home.
We use discord. Maybe I can set up some live mafia for this weekend if you are down. I can see whose interested. We've played a couple times over the last couple months, usually we get really big turn outs.
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@Danielle
Fair or not, Objectvity is dead so now we have to figure out what to do. I believe he said we can mislynch 3x before mafia wins. His death is effectively us mislyching (down 1 townie) so if we mislynch today, then 1 more mislynch tomorrow might mean we lose -- correct?In that case, do people still want to vote Ragnar or vtl today? I would say yes. We can probably learn more from that wagon than without.
I am kind of leaning towards no lynching now with Objectivity being vanilla. Part of my read on Ragnar had to do with them being potential scum buddies. While the remaining points on Ragnar still hold true, I am not sure I want to risk a mis-lynch at this juncture.
Unvote. VTNL
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@airmax1227
You make some very well articulated arguments re Luna's behavior... I'm going to have to go back and read through his posts while I read through the whole DP and keep your pointin mind. My only reservation is that I find DP1 difficult to take some of what people say too seriously sometimes because it is often to force themselves or others into activity or to illicit a response... But I do find what you have said here compelling and it's worth consideration. I'll get back to you on this further later
Please lord, do not take his case at face value without reading the context. First of all much of that is built on his lack of understanding. A big part of it suggests that I was "afraid" of pressure because I asked Danielle what her intentions for pressuring was, given she listed a bloc of four people. She later admitted she was looking for character claims and didn't realize that this was a themeless game. Zaradi should know this, but still based a case around mis-representing my "What are you pressuring for" as me being overly defensive, or scared of pressure lol.
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@coal
Airmax's last post is very defensive, though he also goes on the attack to some degree with veiled threats that, I think, once he reads the DP he will likely re-evaluate. In his post he makes some allusion to having sort of read the DP but this post suggests that he in fact has no idea what is happening, and likewise does not realize what has happened up to this point. That is consistent with his claims of working all day, and reaffirms my judgment that he was not the ideal candidate for a lynch today. He is also active now to at least post a multiparagraph response to a fairly aggressive activity prompt, and willing to take the risk of sticking his neck out even though he has not read the DP. That suggests an uninformed perspective. He has no idea, it seems, that I did not pursue his lynch. That is, unless it turns out that he tells me he had read the DP in totality before posting 443 in which case I will need to consider further. In any case this confirms my thinking that Airmax was not the best lynch, as is evidenced by the fact that I did not pursue Max's lynch despite expressing a willingness to do so.
I too am getting "un-informed" vibes, considering he still think him and Dani are the most scum read people in the game. I figure his scum buddy might have at least told him that wasn't the case.
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@airmax1227
man, I don't know... I mean if I had a solid #1 scum read on DP1 and I knew there wasn't going to be any chance to lynch them or get further pressure on them, then I'd probably be fine going in a different direction... For better or worse, and it's probably the latter, I'm inclined to almost give everyone the benefit of the doubt DP1 and just assume any statement is an attempt at just finding something to point a finger somewhere and trying to get a result out of it...
Is this a long winded way of saying you think DP1 is kinda pointless?
The amount of discussion about inactivity proves that.
I wouldn't focus on that too much. First of all this game is very active considering we are only halfway through DP1, and two there hasn't really been all that much talk about inactivity. I've seen way worse.
I mean at some points in this DP the main scum reads seem to be myself and Dani, and if I'm not mistaken the two of us happen to be the oldest and perhaps busiest individuals here.
Quite honestly I didn't get that vibe at all. Dani is pretty well town read, but wasn't here the first day so I can see why she was suspected a little bit. Also if I didn't personally know your situation with activity so well I would probably be a bit more worried about your activity. That is to say, I think your OMGUS on Coal is a bit un-justified. Weird to hear me type this, but I actually think Coal has had some pretty good analysis this game, and his playstyle seems to be a lot different than I remember. He seems to be prioritizing scum hunting to endless pages of argumentation that goes nowhere. I think your scum read on him is wrong, and I think you should re-consider a bit. That said, are you caught up? I'm interested in hearing your thoughts on stuff when you have had a chance to sit down and read the day phase.
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@coal
Which post was Ragnar's last response to you, just so we are on the same page?
I am referring to this post. Previously I had questioned him about his "non-read" on objectivity. When I questioned him about it he admitted it he had made no conclusion on Objectivity. The read feels shammy, and under the possibility both are scum, convenient to make it look like you are reading your scum buddy when in actuality your aren't harming him at all while getting away with looking like your posting a read list. I would have accepted the answer better if he just put -undecided next to Objectivity's name.
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@coal
I just want to know whether you agree with what I said, whether you disagree with it, and why for each. If you agree, I want to know why. If you disagree I want to know why.I also want others to weigh in.
I hadn't read it yet when I responded, but I just did.
But yeah I agree with the gist of what you are saying, and I also think that ragnar probably would care a little more about the game and scum hunting if he was town. To further elaborate, check out the role pass quickfire I hosted a couple months ago. His town play there is a stark contrast to his gameplay here. The hammer in the nail was his last response to me though, and the non-read on Objectivity, who is my other scum read at the moment.
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@coal
Bit busy at the moment with a fre drill at work. Shouldn't take more than an hour. Ive explained my thoughts on ragnar so I'm nkt sure what you are asking for.
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@Zaradi
What's your thoughts on 333? My current solve is Objectivity/Lunatic.
What's humorous about that, is that Objectivity is my biggest scum read lol and I am his. Not that I'm past bussing as scum, but that would be a bit reckless of us in this set up.
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@coal
Kinda feels like you're tunneling Zaradi, just so you know. I town read him and I still don't really understand why you're not town reading him other than that he wrote out a case against you.
Interesting you think I am "tunneling" him rather than the other way around. I mean I just said he was the least strong scum read out of the three. And if you are accusing me of OMGUS, that is also wrong. My scum read on zaradi is that his behavior seemed contrived from the get go (my very first read mentioned this, though you somehow mis-construed it for a full on town read). Then when I challenged him to elaborate, he doubled down and focused on just me. Seemed like he was more interested in saying "fvck TUF for daring to say my reads are contrived" and the full case (built on mis-representations of reality and lack of reading) was essentially to fulfill his confirmation bias of having already stated he thought I was scummy and not wanting to back down from it. His intentions don't seem like he's open minded to hunting scum, and his vision is narrow.
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Ok. That raises a new question from me then. If Ragnar is town do you think Zaradi is scum? Alternatively, if Ragnar is scum do you think Zaradi is TOWN?You did not mention a possible Ragnar/Zaradi combination. Do you think that is not viable? Why?
Anything's possible. The two scum teams I mentioned are based on my current feeling that objectivity is scummier than almost any town player, and the connection I made between Ragnar and objectivity because Ragnar basically gave a non-read on him, which is something I imagine scum would be likely to do on accident to make it seem like they are actually making a read on their scum buddy. Zaradi's my least strongest scum read, but in the case ragnar is town my best feeling is it would be objectivity/zaradi. Though I place objectivity/ragnar higher atm.
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@Danielle
Does anyone think Airmax has a scum tell? (You don't have to say what it is - just if you think he has one.)
Been ages since I've played forum mafia with him and he's been scum. But in live mafia, he's pretty deceptive and always seems pro town. So I guess no, I can't think of one.
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@coal
I am waiting for Ragnars response also on lucky for a vote count before I potentially vote him, but I am on the same page. Currently seeing scum between objectivity/ragnar or objectivity/zaradi. The first seems more likely atm based on Ragnar's non-read of objectivity.
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Well, actually you are making excuses for Max's inactivity and you have done so several times so far. But maybe those are good excuses. For now they are at least good enough that I am willing to focus on Ragnar and Objectivity, in that order.
I am not making excuses for him, I would rather him devote more time to this game than his girlfriend, even if that is selfish. Just relating what I know to be true of him.
Also, if roles and affiliations are randomized, you agree that the mod psych reason Dani gave for Max's affiliation is no longer viable?
I don't think I've commented on Dani's mod psyche reason, nor did I see her post about it. I generally don't buy mod psyche in affiliation though, most mods do it randomly and if they don't they usually specify.
Your independent alternative explanation is a reason to discount Max's inactivity as being affiliation indicative. I presume you think that is sufficient? For the time being I am willing to entertain this.
I don't think Max is a priority lynch atm, is all I am saying. He will eventually post more and we can gleem more information when he does, but he likely won't be posting for another 4 and a half hours and when he does it may only be a couple of posts. We will get content from him in time.
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@Barney
I assume Zaradi and Coal are not a team, due to their behavior toward each other. ... FYI, expect me to minimize mentions of Coal.
Does this mean they are both town reads?
Zaradi did a good post in #273.
What specifically was good about it?
Seeing the lack of anyone following up
Objectivity insisting we do a lynch, I instinctively find to be scummy, but then the math is shown on why lynching is better... This becomes neutral to me, as I do understand town should make themselves useful to town with such things, and scum should do it to seem like town. Assuming this isn't their first or second game, again, neutral. However, not in my ok to lynch pile.
This feels like a non-statement, and an easy way to pass off Objectivity as if you actually just placed a read on him when in actuality you didn't. I am suspecting a ragnar/objectivity scum team.
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Not making excuses for Max's activity, but again your not going to get more than a few posts from him a day phase. He will probably put effort into the ones he does post, but you can refer to his activity in warrens "the office" mafia to see just how much he will post. He doesn't have much free time. That said, I think lynching him or focusing on him early is kind of a waste. Let's get more content from him before jumping there.
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Current Mafia
Sign-ups
Discipulus_Didicit - Star Control
In the Hopper
Speedrace
Lunatic- Stephen King (closed sign ups)
ILikePie5 - Bakugan or Riverdale
Bullish
Mharman - Terraria Mafia
PressF4Respect - Assasin in the Castle
SupaDudz- Teen Titans
On Hold
warren42, zaradi, Virtuoso, drafterman
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@Objectivity
He has not really done much to generate discussion so far
Seriosuly? I have been on every page and have participated in talk about every hot button issue that has occured. Talk about the pot calling the kettle black. What have you done?
outside of trying to bus me in the last page after he has faced intense pressure.
Btw nothing I've seen so far as been anywhere close to intense pressure. This further shows the fact that you haven't actually read most of what has been said and have just seen the name Lunatic a lot in a total of two people's big blocs of text and assumed you knew where the crowd was going.
If anything, all he has done is criticize others methods to generate discussion (coal trying to get people to role claim, zaradi, etc.).
Huh? This doesn't make any sense. Coal never got people to try and role claim. This whole post is nonsensical shit posting lol. And didn't care to elaborate on the Zaradi part did ya? Oh wait, I forgot you actually didn't read any of that ;-)
He objects to the method of VTLing someone to pressure them in to producing content, except when he did it to Dani 30-40 minutes in to the game starting on the first page.
Not true at all. I didn't "object" to any method of pressure, I asked for the purpose of what it was. Danielle later said it was for characters claims, because at that time she didn't realize this was a themeless game. More evidence you are just picking apart what you want to see, skimming, and not carrying your own voice on the matter.
After Dani suggests pressuring him or Ragnar, he doesn't seem to like the idea of pressuring people with a VTL without a thorough explanation, which once again, he did not provide when he pressured Dani.
Wrong... Just so wrong...
The vast majority of his efforts so far seem less aimed at producing content than frustrating the efforts of the primary people who have been trying to produce content (coal/zaradi). I don't really remember TUF's play style though I have played live with him a few times, but he seems to generate a lot of infighting. Not really pro town.
Again, parroting Oromagi's unsubstantiated claim. None of these opinions are your own. You go where the crowd goes.
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@Danielle
@TUF - What I meant to Zaradi was that his focus on you seems like a waste of time since multiple people have already said they don't wanna lynch you today. Unless he wants to tunnel (make a strong case against you to get you lynched, specifically) he needs to post reads about other people. So far I only recall him making reads about you.
Yeah I agree entirely
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@Danielle
Unless you can justify tunneling TUF this dp based on something you caught, who else would you vote for?
I am confused by this, can you re-phrase the question?
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