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I've kind of already went over these, but because people keep insinuating I have none, here they are. Most are tentative, and I don't have the same belief system that all determinations on a player must be solid at all times that some of you seem to have.
airmax1227- I don't expect much from him besides a hopeful 3-4 posts per day phase. His participation in this game was mostly due to pressure from Lucky and Myself, and his schedule doesn't allow him to play much. That said I will be more careful considering him this game than I was in the Office mafia, where I was constantly over-estimating his abilities and scum read him the whole game when he was in fact town. I think most of Max's deception comes into play in games he's more focused on, specifically live mafia. I am going to treat him more like an open book this go around.
Danielle- She hasn't done or said anything that has rubbed me wrong yet, and I am ultimately getting a "team player" vibe from her. She is most likely at this junction town, and I would prefer her in the town bloc.
coal- Still a town read from earlier, much for the same reasons. I was a bit flop floppy on him before, but I think I am settled into more of a town read at this point based on him displaying open mindedness and a genuine interest in scum hunting.
sui_generis- Undecided
Ragnar- Undecided
oromagi- Slight town, again never seen him as mafia and his play is reminding me of his play in South Park mafia so far where he was town.
Objectivity- Slightly suspicious as of right now. His play seems to be whatever answer pleases the crowd. His motivations make no sense. I think Coal caught him off guard with the question about his focus on Danielle despite her being the 4th on his list. Equally his answer made no sense. I don't buy any of the logic in the scum team between zaradi and coal. I just don't get where his brain is at in the slightest and until he elaborates further I am inclined to throw him in the scum pile.
Zaradi- Still don't think Zaradi is a town read. I am more null/light scum on him. I am getting the vibes he is trying to overcompensate into a tunnel vision read on me, as a defense mechanism for calling him out yesterday about contriving his reads. He has fed into his own confirmation bias and in building his case showed a lack of reading comprehension and interest at looking at virtually anyone else other than big ol' mean TUF who dared challenge him and wasn't victim to his intimidation tactics. I think this gives off more scum vibes than town vibes, and I don't get the feeling he genuinely is being open minded about who is town or scum.
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@Danielle
My strongest TR is coal and Zaradi, I dunno why (TUF, why are you focusing on him? Do you scum read him or are you just defending yourself against his accusations?).
Defending myself. His entire case seems built on a mis-conception between the interaction you and I had yesterday when I asked what your intentions of pressuring those four people. He and YYW both seem to take it as me being defensive of the four people or scared of pressure. Also neither of them seemed to see the part where you admitted you were trying to establish claims from the group before realizing this was a themeless game.
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@coal
What I would like to see from you is a complete list of reads, with reasons for them, and in particular a statement of who you prefer to lynch today (assuming it is not objectivity). Assuming it is objectivity, then I need to better understand why your case against him is any stronger than Zaradi's case against you.
I have posted reads, and can update them with slightly more detail, but not a ton. I am still wishy washy on a few of them. For example you interpreted my read on Zaradi wrong in your post 279. You bolded the part where I mention I thought his motivations for the lines of questioning earlier could be town affiliated, and included the part directly after where I outwardly wondered if they were contrived, but for some reason only focused on the bolded part where you thought I was town reading him lol. As it stands not a lot has changed on my read list, and I still don't have a definitive read for sui ragnar or oro. The statements made by them have mostly felt bland and meaningless, or don't seem scummy or town sided in particular to me, with a slight wave of town sided in favor of oro because his playstyle seems to match his playstyle in games I've seen him town (RE: South Park mafia). I am keeping open minded about most of my reads, and I latch on to things as I see them, as I did yesterday with Zaradi and Danielle. Now my focus is on Objectivity, his sudden switch of reads I think feels influenced by what he feels is less conspicuous or what the crowd would want. I feel like he is just trying to blend in, and was from the start. He town read me when a few others town read me, and scum read me when a couple others scum read me, really just seeming to go with the flow. Maybe it will help when he further elaborates his thoughts but that's my line of investigation as of right now.
I also would like to see more reasons why you disagree with the four people Danielle identified.
I never said I dis-agreed with the four people danielle identified. That's a mis-conception you picked up. My only point was to ask Danielle what her reasons for choosing those people were and to determine if her reasons were genuine, and what she expected out of the pressure. She had since responded that she wanted claims, but admitted to later realizing this was a themeless game.
Specifically, if your preferred lynch today is Objectivity, why him and not the four Danielle identified?
I don't yet have a preferred lynch today yet, the game is only 2/4 days in. Objectivity's answers may satisfy me later who knows. I am in no rush. Even if it ends up coming to a no lynch, but we get a lot of dialogue going into Day 2, I will be fine with that.
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I don't get why people insist on insisting they will "type more later" when they have more availability over and over again. Just wait to post until you can type lol.
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@Barney
@oromagi
@airmax1227
Thoughts on objectivity wanting to lynch his number 4 scum read over his number 1 scum read based on his interpretation of the crowd thinking his number 1 scum read could be "useful dp1"?
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@Objectivity
TUF is not in my top 3 candidates for lynching because I agree with you and Dani that he is worth keeping around at least for DP1. If we were lynching based solely on scum reads he would be my #1 and Dani would be bumped down to #4.Airmax is my no. 1 lynch candidate because of his inactivity.
I think this line of reasoning is so flawed. If dani is all the way at number four and me at 1, and you realize there is only two mafia, your basically okay with lynching 2 innocents over someone you claim to strongly believe is scum...
Makes 0 sense from a town perspective.
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@coal
You scum read TUF based on 289, but only "slight scum" read on Danielle, and yet Danielle is in your top 3 candidates for lynching but not TUF?Explain. Why are you not willing to VTL TUF? Why are you more sure TUF is scum than Danielle, but TUF is not in your top 3 while Danielle is?Why isn't Ragnar or TUF your No. 1 lynch candidate?Why aren't you VTLing?
This is a very good point. lol and I don't buy objectivity's answer to this.
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@Objectivity
I've said like 3 times that I haven't had time to give a full explanation yet bc I was busy last night and am a bit busy today until the afternoon. Also I've said that I have an alternate theory concerning YY and Zaradi being scum buddies which is another example of me not being agreeable since no one has mentioned that. What do you think of that theory?
I don't buy it. I still mostly townread YYW also based on him not doubling down about not reading the OP. Also I didn't get the vibe that they are overtly agreeing with each other this game. Maybe on the Lunatic read but prior to that YYW seemed skeptical of Zaradi. In fact, he was defending his town read on me against zaradi just a few pages earlier, and questioning zaradi about his reads.
That said I don't find "buddying" a real scum tell anyway. It's such a known thing that I think mafia specifically stay away from that behavior and I think it's more likely that YYW is townsided doing it.
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@Objectivity
I have been pressuring Dani despite everyone else accepting her explanation for inactivity and letting her kind of fly under the radar, so not really agreeable there. I town read you like 10 pages back but a lot has played out since then. You are pressuring me, fine, what are your other reads besides me?
Zaradi's whole case is just bad. Part of me still think he was backed into a corner yesterday and forced himself to contrive that piece of poop case, but it could be authentic. I don't think he has a stolid scum read outside of that though, and I am fairly suspicious of him, but trying to be open minded. I was inquisitive of Dani yesterday too, but I've dropped that because she pointed out she didn't realize there were no character claims. I think your quick switch of reads without much of your own thoughts injected is telling though. I am interested what specifically made you flip flop your reads, or did you just see two large blocks of text that mentioned "Lunatic" often and be like "Oh, looks like the crowds changing their minds, I better too so I don't look too different" Lol.
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@Lunatic- You haven't given a full list of reads in a while because you've been kind of under attack, what are your current reads? I want to give you the benefit of a doubt but you have to give us something
I wasn't under "attack" until a page ago lol. Zaradi just barely started it in the wee hours of the moring, and the only one to solidly place an agreeable opinion with his was YYW (who also was a complete 180 flip on that note). Anyways, my last read list was 154.
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Btw, I think the last page is very telling of objectivity.
He has 180 switched on me being town and scum. He's been kind of floating by and being agreeable, I would like to see him actually own an opinion isntead of going with the easier answer. I don't even think he fully read what zaradi wrote himself.
VTL Objectivity.
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@Zaradi
Firstly, I object to the notion that the only reasons to pressure people are for claims or to lynch them.
If not to lynch, then to gather information? Maybe ask them why they did a certain thing? Pressuring to pressure is just empty pressure.
Secondly, it's not exactly a mystery that Dani's desire to pressure the listed players as "I wanna sort these players into 'probably town' or 'probably not town', which is the entire point of the concept of pressuring people in mafia.
How was she accomplishing that? Saying she wants to pressure a bloc of four people randomly means nothing. None of them were substantiated.
This whole notion of "if you're voting for someone, it should be to lynch them" is a really anti-town view to have. I could elaborate a lot more on this, but since it really merits it's own forum post from the play I've seen so far and to avoid clogging the DP with unecessary theory discussion, we'll not go too much further with it.
By the way, all of this is irrelevant. Dani herself *admitted* her pressure was intended for claims. You really shot yourself in the foot here with trying to predict what other people's motives were lol.
This viewpoint is an incredibly scum-sided view to take. A vote is town's strongest asset, regardless of set-up, as a means of forcing someone to produce content that you can use to sort them into townpiles and scumpiles. Votes force people to be active, as with enough votes, you die. Dying is pretty bad regardless of your alignment, so putting votes on people forces them to engage with the game in a way that, usually, gives indications as to what alignment they are. This is literally scumhunting 101. So just saying "pressuring someone for the sake of pressuring them" isn't inherently contrived - it's literally just how you play mafia from a town perspective.
A vote's intention should be to accomplish something. If I just came in and placed my vote on someone without saying why my vote should be considered, what should I expect from the person I voted? " OH NO THEY ARE ON TO ME I GUESS I'LL OUT THE ENTIRE SCUM TEAM NOW!"
Also you are still trying to twist what the original point of me saying the vote was contrived was for. I was questioning the town motive behind the un-explained pressure bloc, which we later found that it's intention was for claims. Funny you defended that even after Dani's omission to this. Also even if we dis-agree on what the intention of a vote should be in a themeless mafia game (I really don't think we do all that much, most of this is semantics), dis-agreeing with me about something =/= scum? Seems like kind of a stretch to meet your established confirmation bias in the matter lol.
This is why I feel like Lunatic is afraid of being pressured right now - Dani's 179 didn't exactly elaborate on a specific reason for why Lunatic should be pressured, so a scum!Lunatic might be concerned about having a wagon built on him for a reason he doesn't know how to defend against.
Nope. Wrong. I was trying to figure out if Dani's reasons were authentic or contrived, like I said. lol.
Again, everything you've done up until now has appeared contrived. I also mentioned this in post 154 before we even had this discussion.
Two, it's really not hard to understand Dani's intentions behind pressuring a group of people she says she isn't townreading, so his statement that she wants to pressure this group (that he happens to be in) for "no reason whatsoever" doesn't feel genuine.
Apparently it is hard to understand, because you still don't understand that her intentions were for pushing claims.
Three, the shading of my pressuring other players in the last line is incredibly suspect. If town!Lunatic feels like Dani's desire to pressure people, or my actions of pressuring people, are fake and aren't actually genuine scumhunting, then he should be trying to engage us to determine how our reads on the slots we're pressuring/wanting to pressure are changing to determine if we're doing it to genuinely sort people and try to solve the game or just to try and look like we're being town. This isn't what Lunatic is doing.
I have been. I asked Dani until she gave me the answer I was looking for, that she was indeed looking for claims because she hadn't read the OP entirely yet. I asked you until you finally said you would be posting it later tonight. You even told me to "ease" by elaboration boner remember? So I waited.
Moreover, there's a lot of value in scum!Lunatic undermining town-sided scumhunting efforts in a way that doesn't commit you to saying that someone is town or someone is scum - saying that someone's pressure isn't 'leading to anything' is a good example of this happening.
Non-committal, yeah, I am still forming reads and trying to understand your intentions behind your actions. Do you expect an OMGUS vote and are more suspicious because of a lack of one? I asked you to elaborate and you finally have. If you didn't I might have voted for you. I wanted to see that you were actually going somewhere instead of just trying to appear like you are. Turns out it was a bit pile of poop lol.
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--> @oromagiWell, he's usually pretty impervious to pressure although one game he crowed before the official vote count and gave away the game if I remember right....???I only partially remembered. January seems like a long time ago now.Cap America- you were T'Challa Third Party lyncher.
Out of context that makes me sound really noobie, when in actuality, in 99% of games I would have met my win condition and won in that same scenario. I played to town's wincon after that fail though.
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@Zaradi
Sorry for the delay, was driving home from work.
That doesn't answer my question. I'm asking, from your perspective, what is *a* valid reason to pressure *someone*. It could be a specific person or not a specific person, and it could be any reason you can think of, but I want you to give me an example of a valid reason to pressure someone.
If you are looking for a cookie cutter reason to find someone as scummy, I don't have one. The closest thing for me would be trying to gauge whether a person has a genuine interest in catching scum. You for example, started questioning me and oro earlier in the phase and just dropped it. It seems like you were following something you may have thought was a lead but without any explanation of your intentions, and then just stopping in the middle of it, I have to ask what the point of it is. Are you really trying to catch scum as a townie, or is your play as scum to look like an aggressive and intimidating detective to deter people from looking into you and give out what you hope are town vibes? But my previous answer does apply, some because the same logic can't be used for every player. If someone I know and expect to be a high poster as town is playing lazy like. I might wonder why that persons less interested, but I wouldn't wonder why someone like greyparrot wasn't interested in contributing the same way. If I know someone has a high ego, and is going to defend that at all costs because it's in their personality to do so, I'm less likely to think their behavior is defensive or scummy where as I might think it was scummy if Airmax reacted to defend his ego as opposed to trying to scum hunt. I take things with a grain of salt in accordance to who I am judging. I don't always get it right, sometimes my assumptions of how people play are wrong or outdated. In the Office mafia I greatly over-estimated Drafter's play based on what I thought what something he wouldn't do and was wrong there. Sometimes you get it wrong, but in cases of Virtuoso's themeless game I got it right when weighing in on warren. It's not a flawless strategy, and I don't claim to be the best mafia player, but I do have a lot of experience. And I know you can't use the same logic with everyone. You can policy lynch them all day and they still won't learn, so at the end of the day do you want to play to win, or play to how you think your version of the game should be played?
Heading to bed, I'll be on all afternoon. Looking forward to your "case" to see if it shows any authenticity behind it. If you are town, I invite you to be open minded and not play into your confirmation bias. I am not sure if I should treat that as a scum tell in regards (winks at Coal) to you or not.
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Its easy to fall into these kinds of traps.
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@Zaradi
I don't think there are things that are tells that apply across the board with all players. I judge tells on a case by case basis based on the personality and playstyle of the person.
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@Zaradi
That's debatable; but irrelevant to the situation. You haven't even given a reason. Saying something is scummy and refusing to elaborate is pretty vague. Give me your reason and I'll decide whether I buy if its genuine or not.
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@Zaradi
I am genuinely trying to determine your intentions, I dont have a confirmation bias that convoluted reads = scum tell but your expected outcome doesn't seem clear if you aren't even attempting to make a case or try and get people on board with your thinking. I am wanting you to answer.
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@Zaradi
So zaradi, build your case. Don't leave your boring un-explained vote just hanging there. You've got a scum tell, so push it, try to convince others. Come on, man, what's your game plan? Or was the attempt at intimidation the extent of it, and was the read actually as contrived as your earlier lines of questioning?
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@Danielle
In post 22 or 23 you said: "Well, most everyone I would have suspected to be inactive has posted already. VTL Danielle."The only players who had posted at that time were Sui, YYW and Objectivity so it seemed weird to think they + me would be the only potential inactives. That's what I meant in my last post to you.
It's been ages since i've played with or seen any of you guys, so whether or not any of you would still be around was up in the air. I guess lucky must have been communicating with you all well outside of DART though. All of you were active in the games you played on DDO during it's prime when the games forum was poppin' but I kind of expected not many of you to show up.
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@Danielle
So you think YYW, Sui and Objectivity were the only ones who would be inactive? Since when would YYW be inactive lol he talks a lot.
Now I am lost lol. No they had all posted before I voted you.
What do you think of oroigami -- does he have a scum/town tell? How about Ragnar?
As far as Oromagi goes, I literally have never seen him play mafia. I've been playing mafia here since October, and his luck at not being mafia in any of the games is astronomical. So I don't really have a rubric to grade against his town vs scum play. His activity levels can very and the games he's more interested in he can post more, and this game resembles some of his town play from others like Supadudz South Park mafia. But I don't want to pass him off as town yet because of that.
Ragnar I've seen as scum a couple of times, off the top of my head a drafter quickfire game, and another themeless game where the only town power role was a vigilante. While he did end up winning that one, I think a lot of people had nailed him as scummy in DP1 though. Ragnar is pretty logical and thorough as town, looks for gamebreaking ways to deduce scum. I'd say if he doesn't seem that interested or deductive it's more likely a scum tell. Judging based on the last quickfire I hosted with him as a player.
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@Danielle
Can you answer my post about your intentions with applying pressure? Or was that before you realized the game was themeless?
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@Danielle
But TUF's note that people would just claim Vanilla (true) can almost read like a noted utility than the hindrance it obviously is. I'm curious why he voted for me to start. I wasn't active and I honestly have no clue what he meant by me playing Mafia recently (I haven't played since DDO, like, three years ago).
I voted you to start because everyone besides you and Max had posted, and I knew Max was likely to make a post. I didn't say you played mafia recently, I said you semi-recently made a post displaying interest in playing mafia, but it was a while ago and I figured you might have forgotten about your participation in the game. As soon as I saw you post I unvoted because I know once your aware of a game you'll post. But if you don't, your spot is wasted and we were probably better off lynching it.
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@oromagi
Well, he's usually pretty impervious to pressure although one game he crowed before the official vote count and gave away the game if I remember right....
???
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@Zaradi
Just pressure him with me, we don't have to lynch him yet.
I'll repeat, pressure for what? You haven't provided anything for me to respond to lol. This sounds more like your trying poorly at intimidation tactics for some reason. Keep your vote on me, as long as you don't substantiate it, it's pretty weightless.
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@oromagi
If there's any town infighting to be done, TUF's just the man to do it.
Lol thanks for the confidence pal.
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@Zaradi
Because theres no way his reaction in 218 is townsided.
Elaborate.
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@Zaradi
So you're okay with me pressuring you for shits and giggles and it's all good in the hood?
Your premise (that town wouldn't equally want to have time wasted on them by being pressured) is wrong, as well as your understanding of my point in regards Danielle's intentions of wanting to pressure a random group of people with no reason whatsoever. I am trying to establish what exactly she is looking to accomplish with her pressure, or if she was simply trying to look productive with no meat in the bones, similar to your lines of questioning earlier that went nowhere.
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@Zaradi
When did I say I was scared of pressure?
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@sui_generis
yeah well besides generally desiring a healthily well-rounded dose of activity from all in DP1 then Ragnar specifically because he's only posted fluff of the sort that indicates either not really giving a shit, scum, or idiocy :)
Ah, I wasn't dis-agreeing with your pressure just further elaborating on my thoughts on dani's convoluted pressure group. Re-reading your post I think you were agreeing with me.
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@sui_generis
the little sideways 8 number looking thing lets you hyperlink post. if you hover over it, it says link I linked your post 186 there
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@sui_generis
Yeah I'm fine with pressuring someone but with applied reasons. Just saying let's pressure so and so or a group of people has no weight behind it.
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@sui_generis
but he literally didn't? he "admitted" the opposite?
Yeah I accidentally used a double negative. I meant he admitted to lying about reading the OP. Exclude the "not".
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@Danielle
I'd like to pressure Ragnar, oromagi, Lunatic or Airmax.
Pressure them for what? There's no character claims, and everyone's just gonna RC vanilla. Is there specific reason you want to pressure this group of people or is it just because they are "hard to read", and what does this pressure look like? "Vote to lynch airmax because im getting wierd vibes, who's behind me on this?"
As town I feel like if you are going to apply pressure you have to have a valid reason for it, and in a set up like this the intention should be to lynch. Saying you just want to pressure people for the sake of pressuring them sounds a bit contrived. I don't see what your end goal is with this logic.
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@Danielle
Why couldn't people keep the same username -_-
You're the only person on DDO who got a username change from theLwerd, but i would have changed my name to Lunatic years ago otherwise. It's my screen name for everything.
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@Danielle
I think he is Levi smiles on DDO but I'm not sure if you played much with him on DDO if at all. I think most of his mafia activity happened here on DART
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@Danielle
Yeah everyones got their old names but me (TUF) and coal (YYW)
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Well we will see if Danielle's work calmed down enough for her to post now
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@Speedrace
Im guessing cuz lucky didnt know you and only had that one bullish game to judge Dart players on. But for the record I did tell him you were one of the people who took the game seriously
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Good enough for me. Unvote (in accordance with danielle).
I am confident she will post now that she is aware the game is up.. Airmax should be posting in the next hour or so as well. I texted him this morning to see if he knew the game was started, and he said he was aware of the game and that he would check it out after work. He should be getting on soon.
I still don't have any solid reads, though I do have some thoughts on the gameplay. Much of my thought processes are a bit back and forth on certain players.
Coal I am switching constantly between a scum read and a town read. Specifically I am trying to discern his personality from his game-play strategy. The part of his gameplay that slightly strikes me as scummy is the couple attempts he's made at pretending to reaction test. He said in post #63 he was attempting to "prod" me. I didn't get the feeling I was being prodded at all, unless he was referring to the part he said "let's see how long it takes TUF to suggest a mass claim", which was too non-sensical to take seriously. So his town read on me based on what I felt like was a very weak reaction test, seems a bit convoluted. Convoluted doesn't necessarily always mean scum, I've seen many a town make convoluted arguments for their reads just to not be suspected for not "doing enough". Where I town read him is because he admitted to lying about not reading the OP. If he really is town, and not wanting to get caught up in a pointless argument that would just delay town this was the best course of action. Based on my remembrance of playing mafia with Coal I feel like he is more likely to double down and defend the lie ad nauseum. His motivation for honsety and not derailing the game seemed pro town. I may be investing too much credit to this, but I really really got strong town vibes from this action. So I am leaning more town than not, and I am attributing some of the minor scum tells I have on his as some of his personality quirks for now. Lastly he earlier said he didn't care much about DP1, and wouldn't start really trying until DP2, but seems pretty peeved with the inactivity, which demonstrates he does think there is value to be gained from DP1. Not sure what to make of this change of direction, I don't think it's a scum tell in and of itself though.
Zaradi- Trying to decide on him as well. His aggressive early inquisition (while mostly pointless and mostly self explanatory from what I've seen) seems like a genuine interest to provoke activity, which is pro town. But his line of questioning in both my case, and Oromagi's case doesn't seem to go anywhere, or demonstrate what he specifically thinks is scummy in either case. I'd say it feels a bit convoluted, but again, I am not in his head. Maybe he had a thought and the answers just satisfied that line of inquiry and he didn't feel the need to further the questioning.
Oro- His activity so far is an improvement from what I've seen in other games. His behavior seems indicative of his town play, he seems genuinely interested in scum hunting. I can't remember if I have seen him play scum over the last year though, and I think I haven't or I would remember. His post 72 was definitely a coded claim, which he does in every game. Not even gonna attempt to decipher it, because in the past when I've tried I've been wrong.
Sui and Objectivity have been pretty agreeable, I haven't seen anything that sticks out as scummy, which is kind of scummy by itself but I'm not gonna get in my head about that yet.
Not sure what to think of ragnar. I will post more in a bit, I'm at work and there is an annoying beeping going off because the fire alarm company is working on the alarm, and It's giving me a headache and I am losing focus. Be back soon.
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@Barney
(plus as Coal confessed, he hasn't bothered checking his PMs to know if he's town or otherwise who his scum partner is).
He actually said:
I was tempted to not even read my role PM...
Which means he did read it but reluctantly.
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@Zaradi
@Lunatic: Thoughts on literally anything that's happened up to this point? There's been a lot of pressuring going on and you've been kinda quiet for someone who said that they're hoping that this playerlist can generate activity.
I am reading everything and taking everything I am reading in. I don't have solid scum or town read or anything yet. I don't think I've been quiet at all, but like I said to Oro I would like to wait for airmax and danielle to post before really swamping the game with posts. I know airmax pretty well though and I know if he gets on and there's 300+ posts his chances of being able to read it all and make a substantive post will be even lower with his limited time. There's no rush yet. Game's been up for only 5 hours and we've already got over 100 posts, and remember this is a 4 day long phase.
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@oromagi
I have to say I think I like themed mafia better. It certainly gives you more to talk about in the early round. I guess people like it because its more about the personalities and less about clues.
I think it depends on the crowd. This crowd, (maybe I am being too hopeful) seems the type to generate activity without a theme. Theme's can be both good and bad. The good side, is like you say, it gives another layer to activity, an extra measure to weigh reads against. The bad part of them is that people can get a little too focused on what their idea of what the theme should be, and are often times wrong. "the mod would never make this character town" or assumptions about theme differences, could be very harmful. Especially if someone uses it to confirm their own bias about someone they already think is scum. Or the thing I hate most; "So and so has very scummy behavior but his character has to be town, so I'll put him in my town reads". As if mods never provide fake claims, or a mafia member isn't smart enough to come up with a solid fake claim.
Let's see how it plays out. I think this game will be active. Though in the early stages, I think it would be better for a slower start just so the players who haven't posted yet like Airmax and Danielle aren't over-whelmed and can give some early input.
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@oromagi
Were you objectivity@DDO or some other username?
He was Objectivity on DDO as well. I can't remember if he played any forum games, but for a while he played quite a bit of Live Mafia with us in the google hangouts.
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@Zaradi
Interesting. How?
Because of this:
This would be a good time for SOP claims to speak up.
If he read the OP he would have known there was no SOP claims.
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@Zaradi
Especially because I personally don't see it as a scum tell like Zaradi.?
Your vote on Coal:
To be perfectly clear to everyone, mine isn't. Set-up spec is a pretty easy thing for scum to hide behind in an open set up to try and look active and productive.
I am just saying I don't think his set up spec is scummy like you do in light of the fact I knew he didn't read the OP and probably didn't actually know it was an Open set up. I don't necessarily town read him, but I almost think any of the players on this players list if scum would be more likely to read the OP if they were scum, so it is a slight town tell, but I am keeping an open mind about it.
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@coal
lol I did not actually read Lucky's OP (or the role list until after your post)I was tempted to not even read my role PM...
I know. And I am glad you admit it, so we don't have to get caught up in that. Especially because I personally don't see it as a scum tell like Zaradi.
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