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@Speedrace
Said Jimmy makes sense as a comedian
It almost makes too much sense, in a game where so far he's the only one I've noticed whose claimed to have a role description with a character. Jimmy is literally an aspiring comedian.
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@Speedrace
Wasn't he janitored last day phase?Notice anything odd about Virtuoso's role PM?
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@Speedrace
I don't think your friend knows very much about south park, no offense. I can't see how Towlie, butters, or kyle would be evil. The best argument you can make for butters is that he was a pimp in one episode, or that he frequently plays the bad guy in a super hero game with his friends, but he is the most sweet innocent kid in the show. Kyle is literally almost the same character as your character stan personality wise, him being a jew is the only defining thing about him besides his green hat.Just talked to someone I know about how evil each character is. He said Towelie is a 5 (but he's town), Kyle is a 7 (something about the Jewish in him), Butters was an 8, Cartman is a 10
Cartman is the only person you mentioned that qualifies as evil. Mr. Garrison is a bit of a dumb prick but I wouldn't say he is evil either. If there is a distinction between town and mafia characters, I don't think it's based on how "evil" or "good" characters are. The show isn't really about that either.
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@Bullish
Dreamer sees "at least" 1 scum, so it doesn't confirm 2 townies.
Anytime I've seen a dreamer, I feel like the mods have understood that dreamer is usually one shot and has two town and 1 scum despite the literal meaning of it.
Don't call what I did nothing that's just insulting. I spent 5 hours sunday reading the entirety of the FT Nightless game on DDO, and came to the conclusion based on meta that drafter is town.
So it took you five hours of reading for you to decide drafter isn't scum because he tunneled you in one game, and you tunneled him here?
Actually would make a lot of sense. If scum attempted to kill Grey and failed, a BP claim is the perfect gambit especially with the "I knew I was the NK target because of mod error".
If he was lying about the mod error all it would take is for supa to say there was no errors to completely demonstrate he is scum. I don't see him taking that risk. Speed has town gambit'ed in the past as well in Virt's game where he claimed vig to draw the night kill. It fits his MO.
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@Singularity
SHUT UP YOU HEARD THE MAN YOU CAN'T BE MOD!
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@Vader
i love it bc it makes this my most played mafia game. also valid point. ofc its my game to break trend
Any game you want high posts in, gotta make sure lunatic is there. I hate inactivity, and will generate it out of nothing if needed. I'm probably half the posts in the game rn. Buddamoose too, always a prolific poster. Back when YYW played, his posts were high too.
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Anytime you declare "X will die" if "Mafia does X" you're giving more control to the mafia.
We all know nothing is for sure. One day you can scum read someone, the next you may town them. Kinda like how you did that with drafter, based on almost nothing after gunning for him hard dp1 XD
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@Bullish
Now THAT is a mislynch setup. So if we lynch anyone other than Single today, scum gets a free mislynch tomorrow if Single is town? This is beyond WIFOM.
How is that a mislynch set up? Do you know she is town?
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I could probably settle for press if absolutely no one is willing to see drafter as the blaring scum that he is.
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@Singularity
Speed has gotta be town though, the lack of a kill pretty much confirms his claim. I guess it could be a gambit where he forfeited the kill, but then I don't even know why he would have claimed dreamer. Also his character claim is pretty solid.
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@Singularity
Here's the context.
In the most recent game, just before this one, the one that ended on christmas, Drafter made this post on the top of the page: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3432/jargom-dp3?page=4
He is now claiming as of DP3 that toaster, who made a total of 4 relatively non-contributing posts in DP1, that we are all idiots because toaster, an inactive, was obviously town. He also argued with me all of DP2 about whether we should lynch someone just for being inactive, when he himself so recently stated lynching inactives should be policy. The last game, greyparrot was inactive DP1, and used it as a brag in the endgame, which is what spurred the conversation about lynching inactive players.
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@Singularity
Lmao. Anyways...
Thoughts on drafter and his very sudden change of heart about lynching inactives?
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@Speedrace
I very much doubt that, based on this thread:Singularity is definitely a he lol
She talked about fingering herself, and being a bitch to men.
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No, but Supa will eventually do something he wouldn't as town. You can't lynch him for his own town behavior
I don't know if I would call supa doing and saying silly things his town meta, rather than just who he is as either town or scum. But maybe I am wrong, before October I was on a year long mafia hiatus so you've probably played more with him than I have.
And that's your opinion I suppose, but doesn't change the fact that Singularity is suspicious
Yeah she is a bit suspicious, mostly on the basis she is still alive.
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@drafterman
4 posts DP1.Then you aren’t paying attention
"Cartman's prolly scum"
and his claim.
Super active there yo.
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Lol I was lowkey expecting you would say something like that. Not once did I bring up your failed hammers in Virt's endgame or JARGOM's endgame, but your right, you are the mafia god, and I am utterly horrible, with your basis being only the office lmao. Your beating me 2-1 on endgame fuck ups.We get it. Youre mad I was so much better than you in the office. Even though you’re scum can you at least play this game instead of wallowing in your past poor performances?
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@Speedrace
So supa is gonna try a gambit every single time he is scum is the logic here?But Supa eventually did a gambit, which revealed him. No such gambit as town. That's the difference
And I meant that SA was lynched for acting dumber than he was
SA was lynched because it was the cool thing to do and everyone else was doing it haha,
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HERE IT IS AGAIN EVERYBODY
Drafter JARGOM DP 3 after the game ended:
This is a common refrain. An active town will eat itself in the presence of inactive scum. Inactives should always be pressured. The fault lies in Supas complete and utter overreaction as well as the veterans (myself included) that allowed ourselves to get distracted by it. I remember thinking Supa was town, but ultimately just got fed up with his behavior and actually forgot about my town read.Lynch all inactives.
Drafter SP DP2 after a small wagon pressing toaster for activity had started:
What's the case against toaster again?
toaster had maybe made two posts prior to this, one I recall being fluff.
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You literally fucking said lynch all inactives, I just pulled the qoute from christmas on DP3 of JARGOM. Lynching inactive over scum is irrelevant, since you said it was obvious he was town, and were defending his inactivity before he was even active, despite stating inactive mafia will rule in the face of an active town. Your attempt to spin what you said there is laughable.I have never ever ever suggested lynching inactive over scum. Period. If you can find a single instance of my suggesting that, I will VTL myself.
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@Speedrace
SA didn't hide any experience though, SA was legit a noob. He was initially pressured because he seemed smarter than your average noob, but still character claimed after one vote (which was a noob thing to do, but since he was being treated an experienced player, was pressured for it anyway). And regardless of his affiliation, any which way you wanna analyze that wagon, most of the people behind it were on it for pretty sheepish reasons. Only arimax and wylted I think truly saw him as scummy, the rest of the wagon was just lazy.I say VTL Press, Water, or Singularity. Don't forget Singularity hid his experience levels, the same thing SA was correctly lynched for
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@Speedrace
The problem with that logic is that supa acts like typical supa whether town or scum. I was even giving supa that pass in DP1 of the office mafia. He was scum there. The safest option seems to be, if it walks and talks like a duck, treat it like a duck.Well it wasn't that Supa had something townish, it was that he hadn't done anything I saw as scummy. Everything he was accused of sounded like typical Supa to be, and I was right
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@drafterman
Thats how I feel about how you are interpreting literally anything I've said/ ignoring vital points like the hypocrisy behind your very recent switch of mindset regarding lynching inactives.
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@Speedrace
Its because you didnt have a strong reason to town read supa. And drafter had even less of a reason to town read toaster. The logic of townreading someone you know will flip town to use as town cred is literally what led me to bugging Warren correctly in virts game. He claimes he knew GP was town and there was literally nothing GP said that should make anyone know he was town in that game.JARGOM, I believed very strongly that Supa was town, and you said if he flipped town, I must be scum trying to get town credit
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Like I don't even get what drafter is trying to sell you here. That because I didn't want him lynched right away instead of pressuring toaster that I was never gonna try and lynch him? Fucking ridiculous lol
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Me DP2: Votes for and lynches someone I think is scummy.
Drafter DP3: Lunatic didn't vote for someone he thinks is scummy.
#sellyournarrative
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lol whatever fits your narrative man. Jesus Christ I just facepalmed so hard.
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@Speedrace
What game and instance are you talking about?Lunatic, I would like to remind you that you accused me of not voting for someone that was town who got lynched purposefully to get town credit for predicting he was town, and you were wrong. What you're saying almost sounds recycled
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The most recent example was 11 days ago, and the other example made by me about the huge war we had about lynching DP1 vs no lynching, wasn't "slightly" different than pulling a complete 180 and being okay with no lynching. However you changing your playstyle isn't the exact issue either, it's that you opted to no lynch conveniently when the wagon on you was forming DP1.It's also getting a little annoying that I can't say shit without someone digging up 10 years worth of games when I said something slightly different.
Also because you keep bringing up the AROSE thing from the office mafia, I'll remind you that one of the main reasons you scum read me there was because I wasn't tunnel visioned on him after DP1. So it goes to show, that change in playstyle obviously wasn't the main reason I suspected him, just pressured him for initially. His lack of wanting to even try to defend himself because the "DP was long" was why he was nearly lynched, and it was more because I didn't like the wagon on SA and wanted to redirect it onto someone who IMO at the time was scummier. So this is really a horrid example, and isn't the reason AROSE got lynched WAY later in the game. He got lynched for indecisiveness in his voting tendancies (he switched between voting you and me multiple times in that third DP, you conveniently forget to add that as part of his play as well).
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Its a pretty rhythmic pattern I am starting to notice with drafterman. After a while he stops responding to your argument and repeating something you've already responded to ad nauseam.
Yes, being hypocritical and stubborn is similar to how he played in the office. But if he was town there, there's no reason he wouldn't want to do it as scum too and others can be wary because "Oh the office".
We have to analyze the reasons why people do things, and if they repeatedly don't make sense for town to do, you lynch them. If it walks and talks like a duck, fuck it, it's a duck. No mercy. Had to do the same thing to supa in Jargom.
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@drafterman
I have only ever pointed out the illogic of you, as town, pushing to policy lynch an inactive over someone who you scum read.It doesn't make sense as town.Ergo you aren't town.
Run we go around again in circles
Play this game over again
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Lynching inactives is unheard of. We've totally never seen or done that before. Anyone pushing for a lynch on inactives is scummy
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You guys realize that drafter literally made that post about always lynching inactives on christmas day? He was town in that game. That wasn't very long ago at all. less than two weeks. And he is already pretty much arguing the exact opposite of that post now, that inactivity is a weak thing to push for. What happened to the new policy of lynch all inactives?
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I pressured him because he was inactive. I lynched him because the only thing je did when he was active was instantly omgus rather than tske responsibility for his activity. You are sifting and picking and choosing through reality to fit this story to your narrative.You didn't believe toaster was scum, you went on him because he was inactive
I suppose if you can't be clever on your own the next best thing is to copy someone else.
Speaking of being clever, how did I fucking know the one part of my last post you weren't going to respond to was the part where I highlighted you as a huge hypocrite? Lol. That's convienently the part that made my scum read on you heighten in dp2. Lmao
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Your right, we should just never make an inactive post ever. Your totally right.No it isn't.
"This is a common refrain. An active town will eat itself in the presence of inactive scum. Inactives should always be pressured."
"Lynch all inactives."
Not sure where I heard these statements, the guy who said them definitely didn't know what he was talking about though.
Except you weren't voting him because you thought he was scum. So why are you all of a sudden providing these reasons why you were voting him as scum?
I voted for him for activity, and when he was active. he OMGUS'ed, so I kept my vote on him. This is all very public and happened as is, no reasons have been "suddenly" provided lol
As a Town person believing me as scum, that wouldn't hold you back. As scum unable to force a mislynch on an active townie, it would be practical for you to force a mislynch on an inactive townie unable to defend themselves. Your actions make more sense as scum than town.
If have the option of lynching two people I believe are scum, and one is easier to lynch than the other, why wouldn't I go for the easier one who is gonna nag at me the whole game? I was voting toaster before I even scum read you.
Based the fact that scum (you) was opportunistically pushing his lynch based on nothing. I've had farts with more substance than the case against toaster.
You definitely mis-used "oppertunistic" in this case. I was pressuring Irontoaster since DP1 without luck, and it didn't seem likely he was getting lynched dp2 either. Oro's surprise hammer was more "oppertunistic" than my 2 day siege against him. I have had farts that had better reasoning for thinking someone is town, then you had for toaster.
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I am paraphrasing your argument.
The you purposely are pretending my argument is something else, when we both know what it really is.
There was no reason to think he was scum, either. And yet you pushed for his lynch over someone you thought was scum.
Inactivity is a very common reason to scum read someone, especially in light of recent games. And OMGUS is also a common thing scum do when cornered. His first reaction and post was to basically counter vote me for pushing him for inactivity lol. Also aren't you the one who keeps saying "I'm not gonna get lynched?" If you aren't gonna get lynched why would I not target someone who is also scummier and more likely to get lynched right away?
No I'm not.
"Also it was fairly easy for any non-idiot to see that irontoaster was town."
Based on what then?
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Those are your words not mine.So I'm scum because I defended him and I defended him because I'm scum, regardless of his affiliation. How circular.
Pretty simple, you defended someone who's inactivity was anti-town. There was no reason to think that he was town based on posting next to nothing.
Now you are saying that you knew he was town the whole time, and are stating we are all idiots for not seeing it lol. Your taking credit for having inside knowledge, only scum would know he is town when he's posted nothing.
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@drafterman
I thought I defended him because he was my power role scum partner?
Your motivations to defend someone for next to no reason are anyone's guess, that was just one theory.
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Still not sure on water either, his spirit is lacking this game, I don't sense a genuine town drive to find scum. Press was active late DP1 and also seemed to have lost interest.
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@drafterman
All last phase you were saying is that he lynching him based on inactivity wasn't enough, you weren't saying he was town until after he flipped town. You just buddied him because you knew he was town because your scum.
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@drafterman
Ok. Town doesn't really give a shit either way. They're not going to lynch me based on your bullshit and they're not going to lynch you based on your bullshit either.
You keep saying that, maybe you are right that you won't be lynched, but it won't be for my lack of trying. Town has been split since DP1.
Also it was fairly easy for any non-idiot to see that irontoaster was town.
Easy to say after the fact, with little reasoning behind the absurd statement to back it up. His activity would have been a long term harm to town and he would have always been scum read for it, his lynching was a benefit for town in the long run.
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@Speedrace
I don't know about singularity. Her logic has been all over the place, I can't really pin a town motivation out of it. If I were forced to lynch her or greyparrot, I would go for singularity, mostly on the basis that she used protections instead of watcher results, so we literally have 0 results to confirm her. Tomorrow I think she will have to be the lynch though. I would reallu like to see drafter lynched.
I am unsure about bullish now too given his reverse on drafter based on next to nothing, compared to how hard he was going on drafter dp1 for also basically nothing.
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@Speedrace
Yeah, he was buddying toaster because it was convenient for him, and now is using his innocence to his advantage. This whole thing is just really shady. Have you considered the possibility that drafter could be scum? What did you think about the "peer pressure" argument, where he is saying it's status qou to claim without pressure, where very recently he was against this (and currently is)?I never really saw anything where drafter thought iron was town last DP, only that he didn't see evidence of him being scum
If Singularity is not dead next DP, we should lynch him. There's no other logical choice for an NK, because Grey WILL be watched or doctoredThoughts?
Didn't he claim to use both protections? And if singularity is scum, then there will be no watching being done. There is a possibility one of them is scum, or mafia really just have some OP roles and don't care about these power roles. I can see why a dreamer would be targeted though over a cop if they have a lawyer/framer, because you don't just find one scum with that role, you confirm two townies. I definitely commend that play, and see you as town.
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@Singularity
That's kind of a leap. A much easier theory to buy is that scum rolelbocked GP, and night killed a BP player the same night you protected GP.He is probably scum ascetic which is why there were no results
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Drafterman about me DP1: At the very least we all know that Lunatic - when town - will actively pursue a lynch until it is a done deal.
Drafterman to me DP2: "Normally you aren't one to go straight for a lynch. You want to squeeze any and all possible information out of the day."My "normal" behavior to him is whatever he wants it to be such that he can be suspicious of me for voting for him lol. But remember, past games don't matter. ;-)
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@drafterman
Using toaster's lynch as an "I told you so". If you are scum then you would have known toaster was town.As I'm doing what, now?
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@drafterman
I meant to respond to these, but the day phase started when I was on my weekend, and a new game came out "escape from tarkov" so I was only responding to shorter posts in between matches.
I don't think expressing a preference means I never ever, under any circumstances, choose the alternative option unless I am scum. I choose whatever I think is the best option given the circumstances at the time. After all, a no lynch is what ended up happening anyway.
You definitely cared more about it on DDO. I remember a game where I argued with you about no lynching DP1 and you were for it, and you were so for it you dug through hundreds of old games to provide statistics on how effective lynching DP1 was for town in the past as opposed to no lynching. In the all the recent games I have played with you I remember you being pro DP1 lynch as well. I am not saying it's impossible for you to have changed your playstyle, I have multiple over the years, but I haven't seen this style change ever until you were the target of the lynch.
Except is the status quo. We're in a game were, in DP1, unprompted, the doctor/watcher, cop, and dreamer all claimed. Yeah, in the old meta this was extremely frowned upon, but I think maybe we need to reevaluate how harmful it actually is. Going back to Office, the cop claimed DP1 and mafia just... let him live, yet went on to win the game.Quickfires are an entirely different beast and shouldn't factor in here.
Well we now know why dreamer claimed, so really all we had is a doc/watch (who you have repeatedly stated you suspect anyway), and GP who is also been thrown into your scum pile based on lynching behaviors. So if only one of the person of the three that claimed this game is someone you actually don't suspect as being mafia, weird that you would follow a status qou led by scum.
Also your "If everyone else is doing it, I will do it" logic isn't being consistent, considering your also yelling at the whole town for being stupid and telling them they deserve to lose. So you are following losing behaviors while also lecturing people for them? I don't see a town reason for you to do this.
In general, I think history has shown that the argument of "He acted X in the past but is acting Y now" isn't a good scum marker. It failed in Office. It failed in JARGOM. People's behavior is fluid.
Like I said, I would buy this in general, but you are pretty hypocritical in this instance, since earlier in DP1 you were saying "TUF usually plays safer than this with his lynches", so clearly you are using difference in behavior as a tool to read scum too.
Then let me rephrase. The Bullish' logic is so bizarre and twisted that any person reading it should question his affiliation (if not sanity) and would be extremely wary of jumping on the same wagon.
Bullishes reasons may have been misguided, but doesn't mean you are town. For all I know you are both scum, given how easily he flipped his scum read to a town read to you for virtually just as little reason as he had a scum read on you, seems like a good maneuver to create distance between you two.
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@Bullish
Who did I pressure based on their PM structure? You've got me confused with someone else.I town read Lunatic for initiating the popcorn massclaim because mafia has a janitor, and could wait to DP2 to essentially deny claiming as a town tool. But he also pressured 3 people solely based off of their PM structure and I don't like that.
My conversation with Lunatic around page 10,11,12, I'm not sure if I convinced him to vote drafter, or he convinced himself to vote drafter, or if he 'conveniently found' reasons to get on a wagon he didn't think was going to happen earlier.
I wasn't sold on drafter until re-reading his interaction with you in night phase 1. I voted drafter in DP1 because he was opting for a no lynch, which seemed extremely out of character for him, and seemed like he was only doing it because he had the largest wagon atm. Also I would rather a lynch than a no lynch dp1.
https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3448/post_links/145609 this sounds like setting up a mislynch.
How so?
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@Singularity
Why would scum target dreamer over the cop?
Because GP is claiming to be roleblocked, so they weren't worried about him getting results.
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@drafterman
You being scum has nothing to do with toaster, your adamancy of him flipping town based on him literally doing nothing, shows you had inside information, and were wanting to use his flip to weaponize against those lynching him, as you are doing now. Read you like a book.Wait I thought I was scum protecting toaster my Uber powerful scum partner?
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