Total posts: 10,910
Posted in:
I can't even begin to guess what role would confirm another role in the game on drafters semi open list. I don't even recognize a good portion of those roles. Some seem familiar from epic mafia but I don't remember.
Created:
Posted in:
Well looks like everyone has posted so far, so I am assuming no results from NP1.
Good job to whoever the protective role is, should have a confirmed player now.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Zaradi
I've seen him in two games but it seems he posts just enough to not get replaced usually. The last one, he made like 2-3 posts a day phase.Does F4 usually post this much fluff when he plays?
Created:
Posted in:
Any results from np1? Looks like good things happened.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ILikePie5
Zaradi is an old school mafia player. Trust me he is a veteran and has put his time in. Check out games from around 2012 to 2015 in the DDO archive based on my memory.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ILikePie5
@warren42
@Speedrace
@SirAnonymous
@airmax1227
interested?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@warren42
For further clarification on balance, you did really well. I hope more mods follow suit with you in adding more vanillas in the game. On DDO there was a long period of mods over powering both sides like crazy. Town relied on investigative roles more than they cared about actual scum hunting. A couple of power roles for town, and a way for mafia to counter them seems more balanced, so you did well with that.Would like feedback from others on this, appreciate yours. I had balanced it (with review) for ten when three more signed up and I had to adapt it. Hoping it was decently balanced.
Created:
Posted in:
You're making baseless accusations. The role cop got the information after max did. I've never (that I recall) seen hated in a game, be it where the hated-ness is stripped away or not. Max got the information with plenty of time before LYLO and before the role cop did.I do know that that's at least semi-common practice for popular. As the opposite of popular, I figured hated is the same.
It wasn't in Airmax's original role PM, it was a flavor that you added later on after seemingly discovering for yourself the balance implications of the role in the end game. Max's original role PM did not contain the information.
I will say I have never seen that modification though. Ever. Unless my memory is leaving me. And I have played in a lot of the same games of you on DDO. I know you play on other websites, maybe that's where you seen that variation?
https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Hated
Even the wiki talks about how this role is a problem during Lylo situations, and me and max last night were in a xbox live party talking about how in live mafia, hated townies are usually lynched early simply due to this negative utility status.
I am not doubting that you have seen this change to the role, maybe you can link the games you saw this in?
I don't appreciate accusations of changing the role mid-game, especially when you have no legitimate reason to believe as much.
It is not an accusation, you literally changed the role mid-game. I am not sure I buy that you just automatically assumed people just "knew" this mechanic. In fact I call bullshit on that, otherwise you wouldn't have even bothered to clarify it to max. I made a mistake in my Bloodline mafia game a year ago, where I had a mafia janitor, and when the janitor died, I posted all the previous flips which screwed drafter over since he had used one of the claims as a fake claim (I was unaware of this because I was very inactive at the time and hadn't caught up on my own game). Point is I didn't clarify that in drafters role PM because it was something I just assumed, whereas you felt the need to clarify that later to airmax, meaning you thought there was a chance it wasn't assumed. I messed up with that, and in hindsight, I no longer agree that janitor flips should be revealed after a janitor dies.
Even if it was something you thought was assumed, you can't expect other players to automatically expect that variation in the role. Like I said, I can buy role variations, if airmax had claimed he was hated and that his role didn't work as hated in LYLO right off the bat when he claimed, I might have been willing to consider a case from him. But at the time he claimed, he did not know the information about his role not working in LYLO. He confirmed this with me in a party. There was no circumstance I would have bought his role changing mid-game like that, and no reason to believe I would just assume this was a mechanic.
All this said, it doesn't matter. I don't think you should get offended by this, because I am not insinuating you are a bad mod, or anything like that. I think you did a great job overall, and that was a really minor hiccup that ultimately didn't impact anything. The inclusion of that variation if anything seemed like it was intended to help town. If that mechanic wasn't in place though, the game would have just ended Day Phase 6 anyway, because I was dumb and over-looked the hated mechanic when I decided to VTNL, so either way, I have responsibility for the loss.
Created:
Posted in:
/out
Looks like an interesting and potentially fun concept, but I just read through OSB 1 and realized it isn't really mafia, only resemblance being lynching and killing mechanics, therefor dialogue and investigating/mis-leading aren't as important or essential. I'll be watching though. Sucks both current games aren't actually mafia games lol.
I guess I'll check back in a month.
Created:
Posted in:
Your game was balanced though. You didnt need to change maxs role for that. We should not have vtnled on dp7 with knowledge of maxs role. so that was our bad. I likely would have lynched him anyway I townread speed more.
Created:
Posted in:
There has never been a hated town in mafia that I remember where they become unhated last day phase. Id be willing to buy it if max claimed it off the bat but it seems you changed the mechablnic when you realized balance implications.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@warren42
Airmaxs original role on did not contain info that his role changes in lylo. You changed it mid game. The role cop recieved I go about maxs role that he did not contain until later on lol. Roles dont just change mid game. There is no circumstance where I would have bought his claim.
I get you were trying to help town but imo we lost at dp6.
Created:
Posted in:
lol drafter can dish it but doesn't like being called out for it. hmm...
Created:
Posted in:
1. Mharman
2. Drafter
3. PressF4
4. Lunatic
5. ILikePie5
6. Zaradi
7.
8.
9.
So, you guys ready to break the Dart post record? Predicting it now, DP1 get's over 1000+ posts. Mafia better scum slip early for a quick DP. XD
Created:
Posted in:
I am more than okay with frenzy and others saying my "reads were off" or whatever. I never claimed to be the best mafia player on the website (like wylted lmao). As town, you get it wrong sometimes, and statistically your are always more likely to be wrong about behavioral reads than correct. A point I will stand behind though, is that if you are going to press a lynch on someone, you should have well substantiated reasons for it. I am not skirting any of the blame for town's loss, but I am saying it is ridiculous to pin absolutely all of it on me, like drafter, GP and wylted are attempting to do. I would have loved for others to have made a case I could get behind in the later day phases. I was begging airmax all game to do this, and he didn't and it was incredibly frustrating. GP wasn't even trying, PressF makes one post a day phase and dis-appears, AROSE flip flops like crazy and doesn't substantiate a god damn thing he says. So I was left as the only one to actually push a case, and since speedrace was mafia he was afforded the ability to play me like a fiddle by being the only person willing to listen to reason because the rest of the town was too god damn lazy to do anything. I had no choice but to townread speed for being one of the only people actually trying, when he could have just been like any of the other mindless parrots and gone for the easy lynches and been just as disguised because that's what everyone was doing lol.
I'll take partial blame for the loss, but not full blame.
Created:
Posted in:
And yeah, I will admit that I let myself get too worked up in response to TUF and I did some counter productive things. But you have to consider that his tactics seem deliberately chosen to evoke those kinds of responses. I find his tactics to be inherently deceptive and he consistently refuses to address the arguments and statements people actually make.
It's funny, this is literally what you do, and are accusing me of. I think this is projection lol.
All of DP3, rather than responding to direct arguments you kept trying to drag me into a semantics debate by being hung up on verbiage that your were trying to spin into something else to paint me as scum lol.
Created:
Posted in:
Finally at a computer to respond.
Change in behavior =/= scum. Especially when the person in question only has a couple of games under their belt and has only ever been one affiliation. People can change their behavior for many many different reasons. Yes, affiliation can change behavior. So can role. So can theme. So can not getting enough fiber in your diet. Maybe he had surgery and was on pain killers. Maybe it's mid terms. Maybe he's been practicing for the big game. You gotta do more leg work than "He play not same, he not town."
No one was actually lynched for change in behavior. It was one of the reasons I pressured AROSE yes, but even I admitted this was my first game with him, and I was basing that off of reading two other town games of his. I realize people can change their play style at any point, I change mine up all the time as well. But this change was recent and it was in spite of his own words in the sign up threads. I wouldn't have lynched him on that alone, the reason he almost got lynched day phase 1 is because he decided not to even try and defend himself or give any explanation. We never used to tolerate that on DDO, people playing stubborn like that got lynched, and often were scum. I could have easily been convinced off of AROSE if he had even bothered to try and defend himself. That said, I didn't tunnel him for that logic. My push for his lynch was more to give a better option to a weakly supported lynch on SA due to bandwagoning. Yes, I realize SA ended up being scum, but before I knew the game was full of a bunch of lazy band wagoners, I was looking for at least some supporting reasoning and there was barely any. Your participation on that lynch and being conveniently correct but using it as weight as if you actually knew he was scum made me suspicious of you. Turns out it was just your pompous arrogance in the end, and you weaponized that conveniently correct lynch with horrible support behind it to dis-credit me, which you are still doing lol. It's a joke.
Bussing is, in fact, rather uncommon. Mafia voting for mafia (when tallying end of day wagons) is rather uncommon. I've been collecting data based on Supa's archives. I know it isn't a lot right now, but I don't feel DDO data applies anymore. Too many new people and the meta is too different. But right now, the base chance of being mafia is around 25%. But if you look at all the wagons so far and pick a vote that was against a mafioso (at the end of the day), the odds it came from a mafioso is around 14%.
The problem with this data is how much you rely on it, and how much it actually misses context from specific games. You used this argument before with me when we were talking about statistics about games where it was better to mis-lynch then no lynch in DP1, and you were trying to demonstrate the stats of games won where there was mislynches on the first day, which ignored a lot of factors (factors like the number of games VTNL'ed in the first day phase was considerably lower than games where lynches occurred for example). Also I dis-agree that DDO data shouldn't apply to Dart. Most of the players on dart come from DDO, and those who haven't were taught how to play by people who are from DDO. Dart is literally an extension of DDO, with the majority of the membership stemming from DDO refugees. I agree the meta is different, it seems like the majority of people just bandwagon now, and barely put any effort it, but my bussing theory was directed at you, a player who has been around for all sorts of metas. I for some reason respected that your opinions would be based on better reasoning, considering early on in that DP you were doubting your read on SA. I guess in DP3, your tunnel on me was evidence I placed more stock in your play than it was worth. I just couldn't wrap my head around how you were so sure SA was scum when you barely backed up your reasons for his lynch and were hesitant early on. Bussing seemed like a likelier theory than you being a stubborn mule, but I guess it's been so long since I've played with you I've forgotten how stubborn you could be.
Oro's theory was objectively silly and an experienced mafia player like Lunatic should have recognized it as such.
I wasn't just buying into oro's blank statement, I had already had my reasons for suspecting you at that point. DP2 happened so fast I didn't get a chance to build my case on you yet.
I'll admit, my FOS of him lessened as the DP went on, because his duplicitous and juvenile behavior is identical to behavior that he has exhibited in the past, as Town, but by that point I was too riled up and irritated with his antics I just wanted to see him gone; alive he was just a distraction.
What do you mean "Juvenile behavior"? You mean trying to back up a my lynches with logic and reasoning unlike what you and the majority of the players do? I was a bit blunt with wylted, but he said in DP1 that sugar coating how we talk to someone is the equivalent of lying, so I spoke to him unfiltered because that's how he seemed to be wanting to be spoken to.
Which proved to be true, as he distracted Town all the way to a Mafia victory, flushing a 2 lynch lead down the toilet.
Lol so why is this just on me? You realize the same thing happened in dark crystal right? Speed has the advantage at that point, being outnumbered almost works in the mafias favor. You like statistics so much, right? Here's some for you. After DP3 where you were lynched, there were 7 players left, with only one being scum. As a collective town had a 14% chance of correctly guessing who the correct scum is. 20% DP 5, 25% on DP6 because we VTNL'ed. Our odds of being correct on the last scum were much lower than being correct. It's easy to sit on your soap box and cast stones, but I would have genuinely have liked to see if you would have done any better. I would have loved to have been lynched in your stead DP3, so I could be in your position and blame the whole thing on you to be vindictive because I "lost" the 1 v 1 against you in DP3, but I probably wouldn't have done that. Now I want to just to show you how much of a hypocrite you are, which is the only reason I am signing up for DD's game.
Created:
Posted in:
Mafia is just guess work and when people guess right they use it as leverage
Created:
Posted in:
Count me in. I'm gonna bandwagon every vote of drafters and everytime he is wrong and mislynches im gonna call him a horrible mafia player and blame the whole lynch on him. Should be fun.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
Anytime you ever mislynch in the future I'm gonna be their to call you a hypocrite. Your a cunt.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@SirAnonymous
With one mafia left, no matter who was alive on town we had a higher chance of mislynching than lynching correctly.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@SirAnonymous
Drafter is one of the most stubborn people on the website next to yyw/coal. You arent gonna tell him anything, he will avoid the bulk of the argument or redirect it or just not respond. But I appreciate your support.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Speedrace
The only thing that would have saved me from voting him was if he claimed that role mechanic the very first day phase he claimed. I can buy a role with different than normal mechanics but I don't buy a role that changes in the middle of the game lol. You won the previous day phase in my opinion, when we vtnl'ed. There was no way max was gonna spin a lynch on you dp6 at mylo. If there was gonna be a lynch it would have been most likely me lol
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Speedrace
Ive been so busy defending my actions from these assholes that I havent properly complimented your victory.
Gg, you played well and deserved the win. You played very townie imo and chose night kills well.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
I'm not claiming to be the best player by any means, but you need to take some self responsibility here. I was hoping to have been night killed, but the early tunneling you started on me countered that. I was suspected from dp3 and you made it a you vs me scenario and were unwilling to look anywhere else and multiple people steeped you for 3 day phases following. I would have loved to be in your position and have been lynched dp3 so I can have the privilege of talking shit from the peanut gallery but you were the one lucky enough to be afforded that position.
At the end of the day town was extremely lazy. We found that out day 1. I gave up talking to brick walls after dp4.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Vader
Under maxs claim, he was confirmed scum. Literally no point in waiting. I would dismiss any case from him as Wifom. Roles dont change mid game.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Vader
No case max would have made would have convinced me that his role suddenly changed from when he originally claimed it. Max got fvcked by bastard modding. We would have lost anyway if he was hated but now it gives you a "soap box" to preach from. Lmao
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Vader
All you do is talk shit from the peanut stand as if you would have done any better in our spot which I guarantee you wouldn't have. I've seen your play. Its horrible.
Roles dont normally change mid game unless their is mod influence. I would have voted max no matter what last dp.
Btw I'm a millenial lmao. I think the only actual boomer on the site was roylatham
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Vader
Stop talking bro you clearly don't know what your talking about little kid.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@drafterman
I was willing to be open minded on many of the lynches. I was the days lynch for like 3 day phases unless i pushed another one since you started your tunnel train on me.
Created:
Posted in:
I can't mislynch someone by myself. I can vote for someone and if y'all agree with my anysis you also vote. Or you can nake a counter wagon. Thats how games in DDO work. There's multiple cases built usually not just one for people to follow.
Greyparrot you can't blame yoir own shitty actions on anyone but yourself. You wont ever learn or get better if you do.
Created:
Posted in:
Why did you assume hated ness goes away in final dp? What other game did you see that in?
Created:
Posted in:
Logic that me dying would have saved town makes 0 sense lol. I got tunneled all game because of stubborn pricks like gp. They did 0 favors for town. But its cool y'all wanna blame me for the whole game that's fine I aint playing another one with this crowd anyway. Lazy pricks
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ILikePie5
I would have been a high poster regardless. Always have been. Look through any of my old games. Game would have been dead silent without usis though.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Wylted
You act like you have more pull than you do with the town. Most of your posts came off as crazed ramblings like they do now. Me dying would have proven nothing to anyone.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Wylted
You act like you have more pull than you do with the town. Most of your posts came off as crazed ramblings like they do now. Me dying would have proven nothing to anyone.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Vader
No the logic made sense. No argument max could have made would have saved him from my vote. Roles dont just change mid game unless their is bastard modding which their was.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ILikePie5
I would have liked to as well. But dp3 and up the lynch was either me or whoever I could try and convince others on to. I was stuck in a rock and a hard place because of drafter wylted and gp train.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@SirAnonymous
I just talked to max and max said warren told him a few day phases in. So it was definitely bastard modding.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Vader
Supa you realize thats not how hated townie role normally works right? Max never claimed that mechanic. I would jave lynched him regardless if he claimed that. Waiting wouldnt have made a difference.
If you can't read through multiple posts dont play mafia. Thats a pathetic excuse for inactivity or lack of trying. That inacticity persisted even after dp3 with the lower posts. Laziness was inherent regardless
Created:
Posted in:
Warren bastard modded a mechanic of a game that would have worked against max in the end a million ways as long as he remained alive.
Tunnel train didnt help but that's the mafia roster we have these days. No one else knows how to lead an alternative lynch lmao.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Wylted
Wylted see how your tunnel train that lasted 3 dps was detrimental lol
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@SirAnonymous
I wouldnt have bought maxs claim of not being hated in lylo anyway. That role variation makes no sense. Only way I would have bought it is if he claimed that the very first time he claimed his role.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Vader
Logic made sense. Warren changed a role mechanic mid game.
Created: