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@drafterman
Depends on who the players on the mafia team are. For example I could see you, GP, or airmax being fully willing to lynch a team mate to get town cred.Because scum buddies are usually hesitant to lynch their own, ergo it's harder to get support for their lynching.
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@PressF4Respect
The player we are lynching here has been very active on the other hand. Also the plan to lynch someone just to analyze who was on the lynch and not on it doesn't seem like the best strategy lol.Basically one player was inactive in that game in DP1. I wanted to lynch that person because it would give town more info about who is scum (if person flips town, then we can go through the people who voted them. If person flips scum, then we can go back and see who defended them). We didn’t do that, the DP ended in a no lynch (huge waste of a DP that basically contributed directly to town’s loss
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@PressF4Respect
Are you talking about DP3? That was late to mid game, not DP1.
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@PressF4Respect
This is exactly what I was just talking about here. Policy culture has brainwashed you all into thinking mis-lynching is better than no lynching. Also we still have a whole day to decide a lynch. Either way no lynching is better than mis-lynching someone with a weak case. Remember most mods only factor in around 3 town mis-lynches for a whole game.
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@PressF4Respect
Why would you want to hammer someone if you think the case on them is weak?
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Is it just me or does anyone feel A-R-O-S-E's play has been a bit different this phase? Compared to his enthusiasm for scum hunting in the last game, he deems a bit more distant. I haven't played with him before so I don't know what his normal behavior is but from even skimming MCU he seemed to have more spunk as town then he does here. Anyone else feeling this?
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@Vader
I heavily despise this logic, btw. If anything, from my experience modding and playing, I've seen mafia way more eager to throw their scum buddies under the bus. Drafterman went after his mate mharman pretty early in DP1 of Dark Crystal, for example.If SA flips scum, anyone not on hammer should seriously be a FOS
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@ILikePie5
I know policy DP1 lynch culture is another stereotype that has accrued. It, like the LAL policy, I think got a bit warped. Lynching is preferred to no lynching, sure, but I would argue no lynching is preferred to mis-lynching. And let's face it, the case on SirAnonymous is pretty darn weak. I think the biggest argument is that his claim seems "kinda weak". I thought so too at first but as I've thought about it, I don't really see mafia letting him use a claim like that. They also would have advised him to wait until claiming and not caving in to 1 vote. Unless the other mafia was equally as nooby, but considering some of the noobier players are gunning for the lynch, I just don't think SA is mafia.Im not either, but derailing this for someone else is a long shot and I’d prefer if we have some info going into tomorrow rather than starting at square one again
I don't have an alternative for you however. I have some scummy gut feelings but I don't have evidence to support them.
As far as getting info, I don't really see how lynching SA is going to give us much of that. We will learn what? That the mod included a character in that only appeared in a few episodes? How does that information help us? We will get information from a flip from the mafia night kill. This lynch feels lazy and I'd rather VTNL than lynch SA if we are feeling pressured to end the DP
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@Vader
I dont feel like losing a game because people are distracted thats ridiculous. If whatever's going on is too distracting for you replace out lol.
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@ILikePie5
UVC
SirAnonymous- 6/7 -supa, speed, water, drafter, wylted, pie
Supa- 1/7 -grey
Still not really sold on this lynch
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@SirAnonymous
To be honest the lynch in you is based on fairly weak reasoning. Town seems a bit lazy on this one. You honestly didnt mess up that bad. I think the problem is people are seeing a 300+ post dp and wanting it to end. Id happily drag this out another 300 posts though if it meant correctly lynching scum. While that may be unlikely at this juncture, lets give it a try. Who is your top scum read and why?
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@SirAnonymous
Tbh I dont have the most confidence that you are scum. Buuttt I can't really argue against the reasons your getting pressured for either. I wont hammer because I dont particularly feel like we have enough against you to justify it and there's still plenty of time in the day phase. Plus id like to hear more from airmax. In the chance that you are lynched though you should tell Warren you want to be a replacement and if your not mafia he will sub you back in if someone is too inactive.
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@drafterman
I'm not so much questioning greyparrot claim as I am trying to see if we can put the argument to rest that supa keeps making about "this character would be a power role or wouldnt be yada yada". I was under the impression from my own role claim and your earlier claim that roles do not have justification. But so far the answers seemed to be mixed so it's a non point I guess and we'll have to see clips.
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Anyone besides GP think their role has 100% link to their character? Mine you can make an argument thelat the predecessing sentence is a justification for the role but its not distinct so I say the official answer is that I have no role link.
Drafters seems similiar and supas seems to be lile mine based on his non definitive answer. GP is the only one claiming a distinct yes to having a role justification I believe.
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@ILikePie5
I agree. Do you think he could mix it up? Like some have justification and relevancy while some don’t?
Not sure. Just went through a couple of his older end games to see how he does his roles. The other two games had roles with thematic relevancy in the description but they are 1-2 years old.
I was just looking into my role here, and I was trying to decide if my role had a distinct "reason" for it. The wording is vague but I decided the answer was no. Then drafter also said his didn't have a link either. Now GP is saying his distinctly does. So we may have to wait to see some flips.
We don’t know if he’s lying...
I know.
So we have a possible CC and you don’t want to lynch in that CC? I’m not a fan.
It doesn't sound like a CC to me. I'm not inclined to openly speculate what I think his role is, but I think it's a bit dense to assume from his statements that he was actually CC'ing him. His verbiage just made it seemed as if his role could potentially dis-prove Speed's claim (he later said his role might confirm it after further thoughts) and we are operating under the idea that there is a potential gambit going on. I don't think PressF is stupid enough to outright claim cop with no reason. Delving into this DP seems pointless, It's best to see how it plays out and question his ploy next DP imo.
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@Discipulus_Didicit
long time no see buddy! I am excited to play your BDSM mafia game
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@Vader
Well not to take anything away from GP, but in the mafia discord GP was asking for advice from Drafter. Drafter was dead the whole game and still stayed caught up and helped his team mate. I thought drafters play was overall really good, I think he just got unlucky DP1.
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@drafterman
@ILikePie5
Thoughts on the SA wagon? You really think there is enough there to lynch him? He's at L-2 and its only been one day. Any other candidates for todays lynch?
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@airmax1227
I'd like to hear more from airmax and pie about the SA wagon. They are both great mafia players and I trust their judgements. Also would like to see if they have picked up any good leads. I respect drafters opinion too, but he seems like he also might be sold on the SA lynch.
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@SirAnonymous
Well you've admitted your actions were wrong in claiming from one vote, so I guess that's really all you can say. TBH the whole read on you is weak, and because of how new you are, reading into your behavior and experience is kind of a stretch. I'm mostly caught up on how well you picked up on things and seemed familiar with certain mafia concepts in the last game we played together in, jsut to make a noob mistake here. Maybe I am looking too much into it. I am surprised you are at L-2 tbh considering the "evidence" on you is pretty weak.So far as I know, there is no way to do that in DP1. There's just no information beyond what people say about themselves, and I've already said all I can say.
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@oromagi
Would you please identify your contributions to the game thus far?
I've posted on every page of this game so far, your welcome to sift through my posts.
What can you tell us about your character and role?
Why?
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@SirAnonymous
That's pretty suspicious of you,
game has only been up for 1 day most post are from the same few people. Any real number of reads this early would seem contrived to me. As the game progresses my reads will develop.
I could continually repeat the fact that I'm town, but what would be the point?
How you defend yourself is up to you. If your town then you would probably want to make a convincing argument for your innocence or tell us who you think we should be lynching instead and why. Most people seem to be leaning you at the moment
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@oromagi
Thats more meant to say I don't have much behavior on you to put you as a town or scum read, not necessarily trying to say you haven't done anything or that you are chopped liver. I acknowledge the game is in its early stages.
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@Speedrace
I'd rather you not. We have enough claims this DP and my read on you was very minor. It's probably lessened seeing that you are willing to claim anyway. Plus I think I have a good guess at what you could be anyway. Let's move on.I'll claim if you want me to? Not Wylted though, and plus 3 claims this DP is a lot already (we might have more)
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@Vader
Well I don't fundamentally dis-agree that lying in most situations is more likely to hurt town then help. For example I wouldn't defend AROSE's lie in dark crystal DP1, because it could have easily backfired. I don't defend your lie in the end of the DP to lynch GP. Lying as town should be a very rare occasion, and it should be used wisely. I am just saying the policy he claims to adhere to is pretty strict. I wouldn't lynch a town for lying if it was clear the lie was more likely to benefit town. Players like Raisor, Bluesteel, Yraelz, FourTrouble from old DDO were more likely to lie as town in a way that benefited the town.That's what I said lol. Probably not worded well but that was the point I was trying to get. His LaL philosophies makes town suffer when they have to lie to succeed
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@Wylted
Press claims copspeed says press's claim seems suspicious because of his rolepress acts confused as to why anybody would think he has an investigative role
I know, it's why he's in my scum reads. I found the logic hypocritical.
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@Wylted
I don't care about your personal beef with him, it has no place in this game.His logic is flawed because he is an idiot. I pointed out to him, that I have had sex with multiple black women, too many to count and he still thinks I am racist
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@Vader
Drafter's play is inherently good, but inherently bad. Sometimes he's smart, sometimes he's very ehhh. Good player, but his strat is ehhh.Speed is a knockoff Drafter
I've probably played in more games with drafter than anyone here. I know his playstyle. He's definitely a good player, and smart. I dis-agree with his policy of LAL, but I think he subconciously does too. Like, I don't think he actually enforces that rule in every game he is in, but will stick to his guns and defend it if you call it out. Irregardless, I think he is a good player.
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@Speedrace
He originally only claimed vanilla. When pressured he finally claimed A.J. who is a character who only appeared as a minor cameo in like 3 episodes. So far everyone's character claims are more prominent than that. I still place this secondary to his behavior, but it is something to keep in mind.Can you explain the AJ thing? I've got the noobiness thing though
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@Wylted
Everyone: "But... But... Lynch all liars!"Also, press. Next time you are PGO or Bomb, just claim miller
SMH
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Reads
SCUM
SirAnonymous – SA is a stronger scumread at the moment. Hisclaim is weak, like extremely weak. But more importantly his behavior. He seemsto fluctuate noobish behavior to understanding things as if he has experienceon a whim in this game. The early vanilla claim didn’t make a whole lot ofsense, and his activity seems to have dropped a bit once people startedbecoming suspicious of his claim, I feel like he’s trying to lay low and avoidthe spotlight.
Speedrace- Found his logic for pursuing Press pretty flawed, andhis revealing of info about his own role hypocritical in regards to PressF’sgambit.
TOWN
none
NULL
Oromagi- Hasn’t contributed much besides role lists.
Wylted- inactive
WaterPhoenix- inactive
iLikePie5-inactive
PressF- His claim of Cop will have to be looked into in futureDP’s and verified later. Dwight is a strong character claim but we also don’tknow the theme. I’d say claiming this early gives him town points though, asmafia would know the thematic difference enough to know it would be unwise togive up a character claim like this that could potentially compromise themlater.
Drafterman- He doesn’t seem to have any active leads or to bescum hunting. Not sure what to think of him yet. I’ll give it a pass since theDP is early. I’ve noticed some things about his scum play from Dark Crystal andBloodline that I will be keeping an eye out for in this game as it progresses.
Greyparrot – He’s got a pretty well known character, only thingI find suspicious is that he is claiming he had a role justification where as Ido not have one, and drafter has also claimed not to have one. It’s likely thatGP was just being an idiot and assumed there was one but he won’t answer myquestion because he is too stubborn so who tf knows.
Airmax1227- Max has got a pretty well know character claim, butthat’s about it. He hasn’t contributed much yet, but I expect that from him. Iknow his schedule for the most part, and know his time is limited but I forseehe will contribute more as the game progresses.
Supa- So far supa is playing like supa. I’ve seen him play astown, don’t know how he differs as mafia yet.
A-R-O-S-E- He’s got a strong character claim. Haven’t seenenough to make a decision on a read for him.
SCUM
SirAnonymous – SA is a stronger scumread at the moment. Hisclaim is weak, like extremely weak. But more importantly his behavior. He seemsto fluctuate noobish behavior to understanding things as if he has experienceon a whim in this game. The early vanilla claim didn’t make a whole lot ofsense, and his activity seems to have dropped a bit once people startedbecoming suspicious of his claim, I feel like he’s trying to lay low and avoidthe spotlight.
Speedrace- Found his logic for pursuing Press pretty flawed, andhis revealing of info about his own role hypocritical in regards to PressF’sgambit.
TOWN
none
NULL
Oromagi- Hasn’t contributed much besides role lists.
Wylted- inactive
WaterPhoenix- inactive
iLikePie5-inactive
PressF- His claim of Cop will have to be looked into in futureDP’s and verified later. Dwight is a strong character claim but we also don’tknow the theme. I’d say claiming this early gives him town points though, asmafia would know the thematic difference enough to know it would be unwise togive up a character claim like this that could potentially compromise themlater.
Drafterman- He doesn’t seem to have any active leads or to bescum hunting. Not sure what to think of him yet. I’ll give it a pass since theDP is early. I’ve noticed some things about his scum play from Dark Crystal andBloodline that I will be keeping an eye out for in this game as it progresses.
Greyparrot – He’s got a pretty well known character, only thingI find suspicious is that he is claiming he had a role justification where as Ido not have one, and drafter has also claimed not to have one. It’s likely thatGP was just being an idiot and assumed there was one but he won’t answer myquestion because he is too stubborn so who tf knows.
Airmax1227- Max has got a pretty well know character claim, butthat’s about it. He hasn’t contributed much yet, but I expect that from him. Iknow his schedule for the most part, and know his time is limited but I forseehe will contribute more as the game progresses.
Supa- So far supa is playing like supa. I’ve seen him play astown, don’t know how he differs as mafia yet.
A-R-O-S-E- He’s got a strong character claim. Haven’t seenenough to make a decision on a read for him.
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@Speedrace
His gambit is already revealed...
You are assuming his gambit its not been revealed.
Well, that or another option I just thought of, although perhaps I shouldn't say that one.
We shouldnt be guessing at any of this. All the discussion up to now has probably already ruined that gambit anyway.
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@drafterman
Yeah, there are lots of tools for finding scum. So why people would resort to lying is a mystery.
We don't know what role he has. Indeed it is a mystery. That's why I suggest letting it play out and pursuing the matter in dp2. There could be a myraid of reasons for the lie. If the reasons dont make sense we should pursue them.
And, yes, if Press is lying, he should get lynched.
You as this policys creator will defend the idea in argument, but I wonder if this is something you would do in practice in every game.
A person who claimed vanilla day phase 1, comes into dp2 with guilty cop results. You would policy lynch him cuz he lied?
I mean if you really are defending black and white strategies like that its fine, but I'll feel vindicated in calling it poor play.
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@Speedrace
By pressuring him to reveal his gambit you defeat the entire purpose of his gambitNot lynching him, but pressuring him to reveal his gambit. I would remove my vote if there was an actual bandwagon on him...
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@SirAnonymous
I know this, supadudz is very young and rash. He is an example of where you would lynch a liar. If you are going to lie as town, you have to do it wisely, and it should be rarely used at all by town. Supadudz hasn't displayed the best judgement in lying which is what results in him getting lynched so often.Just look at the mafia games where Supa did crazy gambits even though he was town. He ended up hurting the town in the end by lying and distracting everyone from the real mafia.
PressF's situation seems different. Plus we don't necessarily know he is lying yet, but it seems pretty obvious if he is, that there is a plan to it. If it doesn't pan out it will backfire on him if he's scum.
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@drafterman
Is there not more than one tool for finding scum?It isn't about punishing people you think are Town for lying. It's about the fact that the only people that have to lie are the Mafia and if we allow lying to be acceptable we lose a valuable tool for finding and lynching them.
Do you think we should policy lynch Press if he is lying or are you merely defending the idea of policy lynches unrelated?
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That's the problem, when town lies, mafia gets to hide and it unnecessarily distracts.
Not necessarily. I've been playing mafia for years and have seen some town gambits work out. Even AROSE did it in dark crystal and ended up netting a positive result from it (though it could have backfired). Not all town lies are inherently detrimental, just the ones that aren't well thought out (Like supa lying in the final day phase to get GP lynched).
Lynch all liars discourages that so when someone DOES lie, it's more likely mafia and then they die as a result. It's frustrating to deal with two verified groups of liars
I don't find it all that frustrating. Policy mindsets I feel are detrimental to a good town play, FourTrouble was pretty against them too. Here's the thing, people are gonna do what they are gonna do regardless of how frustrating their play is, and then they will just keep signing up for games. You aren't going to teach them a lesson they aren't willing to learn. Look at Greyparrot for example. Dude's been playing for years, and his playstyle seems to have barely changed. He's a lazy player. I've seen him in old games let himself get lynched over being too stubborn to claim or put more than a hairs worth of effort in. He still plays that way after being lynched multiple times for it. He won't answer a basic question about his role justification out of pride in this game. In dark crystal mafia when speedrace said "whoever types the better argument will live" GP basically said "nah, I don't care that much". He was willing to throw the game for the mafia in order to play however the hell he wants to. Supadudz is another one I've heard keeps making rash decisions and being unwilling to learn from mistakes, though I've only observed this in two games so far, I've seen comments from drafter indicating it's been a problem in the past. So no, we aren't going to teach anyone any lessons by policy lynching them that they aren't going to learn themselves.
More so, the idea that their is fundamentally no reason to lie as town I think is wrong. If I was a town power role and forced to claim in DP1, I might be compelled to lie until I had better results from my night actions. If you have many examples of games where policy lynching has consistently worked for town, let me know. Specifically in the case of PressF for respect, I find it interesting that you would be willing to lynch him. He's obviously got a ploy going on, and its pretty obvious he probably isn't the town cop. If that doesn't pay off in the coming day phases, that will look really bad for him. What scum motivation does he have to do what he's doing? Why not let it play out and if there's no answer for it later on, he's shot himself in the foot?
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@Speedrace
Not a fan of lynch all liars. If happily do a mafia theory debate with you about it sometime. But town do lie and sometimes there is good reason to lie if its done wisely. Even if it isnt done wisely if you suspect a lying person of being town using a mislynch on them to teach them a lesson most likely isnt going to work and it is 100% goimg to hurt town.
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@Speedrace
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