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Welcome to "Choose Your Role" Mafia. We've done Choose your character before, however we have never done a "Choose your own role" mafia before, so hey its something new.
How this will work, is this will be an open set up game, with a list of 9 role Category types IE (Investigative, Protective, Manipulation, Preventative" Etc. I will be lying about two of those role categories being in the game, only mafia will know which two categories I am lying about, the other 7 will be truthful. Each player will be able to choose one role of a few different options given to them before the start of the game, and that will be their role for the duration of the game. After some deliberation I have decided to go themeless for this game, so as not to over complicate the set up. I hope this game can be entertaining in the absence of a theme however, and hope we can get some sign ups for this experimental concept.
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@Mharman
Do you go out of your way to make noobs scum on their first game? Wylted says it’s a dick move to make noobs scum in their first game and says he wouldn’t do it.
I would say no, I have probably done it before, but I don't remember.
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@Mharman
It’s also possible that neither exist because of Wylted and Earth’s roles, but then I’d have to argue two people on the same scum team claimed roles that can be a soft CC of each other- although Cerulean doesn’t seem to think there’s such a CC that can actually be made.If it’s Whiteflame it’s most likely Austin that’s the teammate. If it’s Cerulean it gets tricky because it’s either that Whiteflame claimed something that could be used to CC his own teammate, or that Austin was willing to lynch his own teammate DP1 (I know Austin had a questionable townread of Ceruean DP1 after laying out a good reason to sus Cerulean, but he was on the wagon when I’m not sure he had to be by the end of it). I guess ADOL exists too, but he’s not an easy scumread rn.
I know mods like to put new players in the fire as mafia, so it's one recent to be a bit paranoid of ADOL.
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@Mharman
Given that both Whiteflame and Cerulean’s claimed roles can be used to confirm a townie, and that Wylted’s role already can do that too, I don’t think both of their claims can be real. I consider both roles to be pretty weak, too, while Wylted’s is strong imo. I think there’s only room to pair one such weak-ish role with Wylted’s role. Plus, Earth’s role also exists.
That's a good point. Something to consider after getting the rest of the claims.
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@Mharman
You ignite primed targets in the day, correct? That’s how I remember Supa’s behaved when had it in a game a few years ago.
No i both prime and ignite in the night. I have unlimited primes, only one ignite.
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@Mharman
Also, if you need any more reason to believe my claim, I will note that Nasuada being told she was gonna survive is fitting. Not sure if that’s the point you were already making when you said that, but I’m noting it here.
But Elva had lied to her about it if I remember correctly, Nasuada basically changed what was supposed to happen by being pure unadulterated badass.
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@Mharman
That’s interesting I guess. What do you think are the odds Whiteflame went for such a claim? Because he just made a very good argument to me about why he wouldn’t go for that claim if he’s scum.
Chances are pie just mis-understands or mis remembers certain things, or is selectively forgetting minor details of the book that don't seem important, which could make sense with some of the inconsistencies with the other characters. But the thing is with my own character and all the characters in the graveyard I feel like their roles fit the characters VERY accurately, so I'd have to buy that he just hit gold on some of them while missing the mark on others, and it convienently happens to be roles that aren't flipped yet that don't make as much sense.
As far as if Whiteflame was willing to WIFOM that role, yes I do believe him capable of it. I am not sure if pie makes a role like that though. After austin claims we can decide whose role justification out of the three of him, cerulean, whiteflame, and your own makes less sense. So far i'd say yours makes more sense than some of the others though, and I was initially more convinced by ceruleans Elva claim, but the more I think about it the more I think Oracle fits Angela better.
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Another wierd thing is that Angela is not the Oracle, and Elva is, as it is widely theorized that Angela is the "Oracle that lived in the hall of the soothsayer" two and a half thousands years ago, Galbatorix mentions to Nasuada when torturing her. Angela is referred to as a seer in the third book.
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@whiteflame
It is exactly as I stated: Voodoo Lady.As for the justification, I believe this is as complete as I can get:It says I have an uncanny ability to read into people and make predictions, that I tend to do it teasingly. I occupy a space somewhere in between the ordinary and magic sides of the world. My magic isn't anything to write home about, but I understand hidden aspects of the natural world very deeply and I'm involved in herbalism.
The only problem I have with this is her magic being "nothing to write home about". She is literally a witch with extraordinary powers, and is one of the only ones that can resist Elva's mental abilities, as well as she had the ability to essentially stop time killing a large group of Helgrind worshippers in a second. She's also the only person whose as old if not older than Galbatorix on the planet, without the use of Eldanari (dragon hearts). She easily outclassed both Arya and Eragon in mental battle training exercises. To say her magic isn't anything to write home about means that I'd have to buy that either pie or whiteflame didn't do a ton of research on this character.
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@Mharman
I am a bulletproof. As I mentioned last DP, my character is Nasuada. The justification is that Nasuada, a strong-willed individual, survived torture on multiple occasions- specifically, torture while captured by Galbatorix and the Trial of Long Knives
Some more thoughts on this claim, the trial of long knives was voluntary torture Nasuada endured to control the leader of the Fadawan tribes who were asking for more power and leadership positions and when she refused they challenged her to the trial of long knives to see who can endure more cuts and was fit to be leader. She didn't have to participate in this trial, but did so voluntarily with information from Elva that she would survive. Galbatorix tortures her pretty bad with the Burrow Grubs that are like centipedes that dig beneath her skin.
So if pie is writing her character as a fan of Nasuada, the role makes sense, but technically Arya and Murtagh are just as entitled to that role as both were tortured by Galbatorix as well, for longer arguably. Arya was tortured for literally months by Durza, Nasuada was only tortured for like a week tops. However the reader doesn't really get to see the torture to Arya or Murtagh, where as you get to see the burrow grub torture and the hot iron torture nasuada goes through, so there is incentive for pie to focus on her torture over the other two's. And Nasuada is a pretty badasss character, if he wrote her as bulletproof it has to be as a big fan of the character.
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@whiteflame
Character Role NP1 NP2Cerulean Elva Oracle (weak) N/A N/ALuna Eragon Arsonist Primed WyIted N/A (Vanilla)Mharman Nasuada Bulletproof N/A N/AWhiteflame Angela Voodoo Lady Picked Luna (failed) Picked Luna (failed)Austin ??? ???DeadCasey Murtagh Prideful TownieWyIted Galbatorix 2X Prober Vanillaized Luna/Cop InnoEarth Roran Hammerer
Thankyou. Didn't Austin claim Arya?
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Ill be posting more in a couple hours when I get to work
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Can you post your character list again? Who claimed arya? wondering if its human/ elves so far arya is the main outlier
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@whiteflame
Whats your role title and can you give your best paraphrased justification explanation?
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@Mharman
what were you expecting?
Governor, popular, double voter, etc something political related maybe.
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Bulletproof is definitely a stretch for Nasuada, but ill accept it for now while we wait for other claims
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We should get full claims and results from the remaining players obviously.
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I really don't like mharmans thoughts this game. They feel so much more forced in comparison to his town play. I'd heavily consider looking into mharman if I die tonight.
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@Mharman
Couldn't a teammate talk him out of any stupid shit he'd do, too?
1. His claim happened real time as I was interacting with him with not a long delay between, which means wylted was probably just winging it and it's likely his partner wasn't online.
2. His partner cosigned wylted's behavior. You are a prime example setting for why this would work since your making the exact argument in favor of him for it to work, and if I hadn't been pressing it so hard, you'd probably be the winning argument. Even earlier in this day phase wylted was telling me he didn't think I'd have the support for this lynch.
3. Or his partner doesn't know or care about the theme, I think this argument would really only apply to you or cerulean of the living players, and its something I can also see as an option.
But anyways I already addressed the point here just now, wylted said he didn't even know his character was an antagonist, so unless you think he was lying, he wasn't really being "ballsy" with his claim,
The scumread him I'm being asked to assume he had impulsively claimed his actual role and character as scum for towncred out of literal nowhere.
HE didn't want to claim remember? I had guessed his character to austin when asking austin for his thoughts on wylteds role, and correctly guessed he was Galbatorix, in which I think Wylted panicked and decided to go with it since I had already pieced it together. Keep in mind wylted is trying to say he didn't know his character was an antagonist at this time, so if you are to believe him like you claim you do, then there shouldn't have been any risk in claiming his character under the notion he didn't know it was scummy. This takes the steam out of your "It's too ballsy, even for wylted" argument.
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Random side note: in wylteds response to me he mentioned he didn’t know he was a villain when he claimed. So this should also help dismiss the counter argument WIFOM of “why would wylteds draw attention to himself” yada yada that wifom and cerulean keep making for him. In other words if he was scum he’s admitting that it was a genuine scum slip just as much as he’s hoping you’d buy it from him as a town slip.
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At this point I don’t see a whole lot of negative from the Wylted lynch since no lynched day phase one.
1. We get information and will know the theme split has nothing to do with antagonists being villains
2. It will help us in future day phases in analyzing who was pro and con against this wagon based on wylteds flip
3. If he does happen to be the only investigative role, the con side of his role outweighs the benefit of the cop. And if we don’t lynch him we are kind of just hoping he’s not lying anyway with the results, it will always be a gamble. Also keeping him alive risks him vanillizing more power roles which prevents role confirmation from said players. His role is more of a liability to town than it helps, and it only helps if he happens to correctly guess scum, he is already 0-1 on that front.
It’s not that I’m unwilling or unable to see a world where Wylted is town, but even if he is town I just don’t see the harm of the lynch when there are so many more signs that point to him likely being scum, the worst case scenario here is a mislynch, which is likely to happen in the early game anyway. Not a lot of drawbacks here
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@whiteflame
I’d advise you not to claim on the whims of one person but it’s entirely up to you.
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I believe Whiteflame right now and am fine with him waiting til tomorrow.
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@Mharman
My character is Nasuada, I would strongly prefer not to role claim yet
I like the claim, I would be surprised if she wasn’t in the game
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@Mharman
How likely do you think it is that an investigative ability wouldn’t CC him here? Cause if I’m an investigative ability at this point, I would be CCing Wylted here.
if there is a town investigation role I think they are smart to not CC this. We already have enough on Wylted without a CC, having the actual investigation role claim is harmful to town at this point
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The only answer I can see you giving here is “for towncred,” but that doesn’t match up with the behavior. If he’s looking for towncred, why not follow through with targeting Earth? If he’s looking for something more than townread, I can see him switching targets, but that’s only if he expects to be townread afterwards… at which point I think it’s more likely he’s telling the truth and town.
I don’t think he’s going for town cred that just happens to be a by product of his playstyle. I think Wylted does actions that benefit mafia over acting as mafia being worried about how town thinks of him. Ironically your logic in redeeming him for it is exactly why it works for his playstyle.
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@Cerulean
Also, tbh, almost everyone besides Lunatic and Wylted are flying under the radar.I'm a bit uneasy about how Austin has been not up to much today besides echoing support on the WyIted lynch. Why, exactly, was he mostly townread yesterday?
He put a ton of reasoning and analysis to support his view though. You seem to be staying away from the wylted situation and not commenting on it much. Any particular reason why you town read him?
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You have yet to make a town case for me. Austin has. ADOl's vote is on me and he also made a town case along with the scum case, but you....... you haven't done it.Why is that?
Partially out of laziness. I am much lazier than I was 8 years ago or whatever it is, and don't write out every thought I have anymore the way I used to. Part of it is not caring about mafia as much anymore, the other part is realizing no one reads have of what I write anyway so it's kind of pointless, and sometimes writing out every damn thing in my head is counter intuitive to my goal. I am considering everything you've said, and I like some of your answers. I can believe a world where you are town, and a lot of this can be explained away by you just being wylted. That part isn't winning the fight for me though so I don't see the part in verbalizing it and losing any little support I have for gained for the lynch already. And being wishy washy about my stance definitely won't help get a lynch in time.
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@AustinL0926
Iirc, her ability allows her to sense pain and danger in people close to her - it's not something that I would immediately jump to as "oracle", but it's also not a glaring gap that I'd scumread Cerulean for.I'd kinda expect her to more be a doc or maybe a watcher, but eh.
My thoughts exactly. Bodyguard would almost he the first role for this character as she literally is a body guard for Nasuada for a while, but I can see a world where oracle kind of fits too
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@AustinL0926
To your first point I’d say he should have used it either in negative utility or just waived it if town. If he had a strong scum read he was convinced of then maybe he could get a pass for it but that wasn’t the case as he stated, he thought I was town and wanted to town clear me. I have a hard time with that justification.
To your second point I agree, but also keep in mind pie almost never uses “cops”. Last time I was mafia in a pie game I asked if a cop existed, and was told no I believe. He uses variation style investigation roles that function similarly but a cop is extremely rare. I am keeping in mind that Wylted is trying to combine a cop with a vanillizer so technically it fits in the parameters of not being a cop, but it’s still something to note that he calls the ability a cop ability
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@AustinL0926
Does oracle make sense to you as Elva? It kind of did to me but I am kind of mis remembering exactly how Elva’s powers work. I remember she can sense harm to others but don’t remember how that ends up benefiting her once the curse was removed, or if it makes sense in an oracley way but at the same time it makes enough sense prima facie that I don’t think cerulean would come up with that as a fake claim unless it was provided to him.
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@WyIted
If a lynch of me looks inevitable than you should get all your behavioral reads in, because I don't think the scum team wants somebody who will be confirmed town around.
It would help if you answered some of my questions in regards to how you claimed, why for instance you didn’t claim to have a scummy character along side a scummy role, why you decided claiming was suddenly a helpful option when I had guessed your character even though you were previously saying you thought it would be useful to CC someone and finally who the hell you thought would be claiming galabatorix in the first place that you would even be able to CC.
I know you think I am being tunnel vision here but I’m afraid I am barely getting an audience here and so far ADOL and Whiteflame seems to be the only ones indulging my suspicions. If I let the focus shift to others it’s incredibly likely I just get night killed tonight and everyone just continues to buy into the WIFOM argument “Wylted wouldn’t claim the main antagonist he’s clearly town” that so many seem to be buying into and you just get ignored for the rest of the game. If you are scum, this is probably literally my only chance to get you lynched. You yourself even dismissed me as a threat saying you don’t think I have the capability to get you lynched. I believe you and that’s why I can’t let up, if I don’t survive this day phase you get a free skate to the end game for making a ballsy claim that no one seems to wanna question. So if it seems I’m being tunnel vision it’s because you left more questions than answers for me and I don’t feel many of them have satisfying answers. Quite frankly I scum read you, and if I’m not pursuing a scum read I might as well not be posting or contributing to the game in any way.
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@Cerulean
Very strong behavioral analysis skills normally that are going to waste this game.This was why I was so uneasy about Lunatic on Day 1. A lot of his posts were talking about claim viability rather than anything behavioral.
This is the first theme I’ve played in quite a while where I feel I actually know and understand a theme well enough to do proper thematic investigation. As a youth I considered Paolini a god amongst men and thought of him as one of the greatest writers ever and it consistently blew my mind that he started this series when he was only 16. I had read Eragon at least 3-4 times while waiting for the following books in the series to come out. I do feel like I am factoring in behavior though with my read on Wylted and it feels wierd to me that you and others keep dismissing a lot of key elements to my case on him also being behavioral.
I can list the behavioral aspects of my scum read on him for you if that makes it easier.
1. His targeting of me last night is one of the prime reasons I’ve amped up my suspicion on him. It was incredibly a reckless move and one that he had not indicated in the slightest. He never once mentioned scum reading me in the last day phase. Now he’s saying he was trying to clear me for town confirmation which makes it even sussier. Who cops someone to town clear them? Doesn’t that indicate inside knowledge that he already knew I was town? Also I think the motivation for targeting makes more sense for him to do as scum because he knew I was onto him last day phase and if I was an investigation role it would make sense to get rid of me as an issue. I had kind of expected to be roleblocked or night killed if was right about Wylted being suspicious and so when it turned out he vanillized me it really only made my scum read of him harder. Before the day phase though I was actually strongly trying to consider a world where Wylted was town. I primed him yes, but I wasn’t fully planning on igniting if my read on him ended up changing later on.
2. The way he claimed. He was resistant to claiming when I asked and it made no sense to me since the role aspect was already revealed. At that point there is literally no reason not to claim. When I asked him why he claimed he said it was to help catch someone via CC. Who in their right mind would claim to be Galbatorix THE MAIN VILLAIN, did he think he was going to catch claiming that?
2A. Why didn’t he claim this immediately? He came out the gate saying his role was scummy but why not his character? You can say lack of theme knowledge but that’s not true is it? Based on his own description of his role it should be pretty clear his character is a villain so why didn’t he also say my “my role and character might come across as scummy”?
2B. Why did he randomly decide that it his previous logic of CCing someone didn’t apply once I had guessed at his character (to another person btw, wasn’t even talking to him)? The way he claimed immediately after I called out his character seemed like an “oh fuck he guessed my character” move. I feel like he panicked in that moment and decided to rely on WIFOM to spin him claiming the antagonist being a good thing for him. The fact that it’s worked so well for him is a large indication of why this was probably a smart move on his part but the fact that so many people bought into it at first is also what raises red flags for me.
Cerulean I ask you please consider these points and not dismiss everything I am saying as theme analysis only, because I am trying to use both. I realize that some of my theme analysis seems mumbo jumbo nonsense but if you focus on what I am actually saying about Wylted you realize that I am not simply targeting him for being a villain.
Btw I posted this from my mobile so there is probably a lot of wierd auto corrects and grammar mistakes so my apologies in advance.
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I guess he can technically read minds, if the person doesn't have mental wards up, but that ability isn't exclusive to Galbatorix. Literally almost any user of the ancient language can do it, Eragon included. The twins try to pry information out of Eragon with this tactic in Farthen Dur when he first reaches the mountain, though he is able to ward them off.
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@WyIted
On your last point. I thought given that galbotrox or whatever his name was could read minds, it would make him the obvious cop and it would be easy to say out my full ability
Galbatorix doesn't read minds, he can certainly break them and control them, but he is far from fitting the description of a cop with that justification.
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@WyIted
Well I am the town cop, so not much of a gamble
I feel like you tried to bait out a CC accepting your fate, and luckily the actual cop didn't bite.
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More food for thought: Why didn't wylted come right out the gate saying his character was scummy? All he mentioned was that his role was scummy. But even from his own justification, it should be obvious to him that his character was an atagonist.
Later on when I asked him for his claim he didn't want to give it. "I would like to keep the character to myself for a bit."
When I asked him what logic there was to claiming a role without a character he says it was because he wanted to potentially CC someone. Who else is gonna claim the main antagonist? There's 0 chance he is CC'ing someone with that claim.
He confirmed being Galby after I had already worked out a scenario that makes sense with Galby being Vanillizer. This seems to me like he panicked after I correctly found out his character and hoped maybe just claiming his character outright would work out for him, and so far it has for some pretty shaky wifom reasoning.
But can we all at least agree that him witholding his character for CC reasons is kind of bullsh1t with a claim like that? It's why I thought he was trolling me when he claimed it.
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If wylted is scum I think we take a hard look at mharman next. I think wylted was FOSing him to put distance between him in the chance he gets lynched. Mharman was also defending wylted on horrible logic, I think mharman is a way better townie than that. He was making arguments and excuses for wylted before wylted even did himself. He's gonna need a really strong argument or claim for me to buy him as town if wylted flips scum.
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Is the main reason for excusing wylted being the main atagonist still largely WIFOM based on "Thats too ballsy a move"? Or "Pie has made villains town before"?
Both arguments feel super weak to me, the first because wylted is an notoriously ballsy player, and the second because somethings happened once or twice doesn't mean it's a consistent factor in every single game. He used his role on me without stating any suspicion on me whatsoever, what if I was the town cop or doctor? His use of his role was extremely gamble-worthy for no reason, when he could have just nerfed earth's role which has the potential to hurt town way more. idk how wylted is getting so many passes. Does it not bother anyone else that everyone besides literally myself and ADOL is giving him every free pass in the book either? I seriously don't see why he is so widely town read, it's making me that much more suspicious of him tbh.
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@Cerulean
I do have a player targeted with my ability, but I don't see any point to saying it aloud, so I won't.
Do you just reveal an affiliation upon death? I missed where you had claimed
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@Cerulean
Actually, one more thing- Lunatic, is there a particular reason why you believe the theme (Mafia characters are dragons) I suggested isn't viable? I feel like we glossed over that- or did I miss your response?
I am not aware this conversation even happened. I dont read every single post in the game, especiall if it was not directed at me or if was in a back and forth exchange with someone else. I don't really know what to say about it at this point other than "I guess it's a possibility", but not a strong enough one that I would completely dismiss the main antagonist with a negative utility role thats been use in a negative way already to be less of a threat.
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@Mharman
I mean he would have a reason if he felt threatened by your thoughts on him yesterday. I’m considering his motivation as town first because I’ve been behaviorally townreading him since he claimed with no pressure. Granted, his role isn’t complete negative utility to me (so there’s a chance he really didn’t have a reason so SoP claim), but I can see why he did considering last game.
Btw he didn't claim without pressure. I pieced together that he was Galbatorix based on his role, and in my response to Austin made a point about how the role would make sense with him, then immediately after Wylted confirmed I was right (this is the behavioral argument you are asking for btw), as it made sense to me that he would need someones true name (IE Role in this context) in order to vanillize them, and he said he would use it on earth who was the only one who had claimed at that point. To me it seemed extremely convenient I happened to be right about his character, it seemed to me he had panicked and decided to just go with the claim and hope WIFOM would allow him to live, which it apparently has.
Im not goonna argue what roles would or would not exist in the game when I literally know my role and the theme extremely well. Wylted is saying I am town. What say you to that????
I am saying it is pointless to argue with you about whether an arsonist exists in the game when I am town and literally am one, and I also have read the book and know how well that role fits my character. Also wylted is saying that by vanillizing me he also "investigated" me innocent, so it's kind of a pointless argument anyway unless you think me and wylted are scum mates or something and I am just hard bussing him.
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going to be driving to work, wont be able to post for another hour or so
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You have a slight point in that he didn’t omgus you publicly, but he clearly was scumreading you, otherwise he wouldn’t have vanillized you.Unless he targeted someone else and was redirected, at which point he’s town anyways for the scum team targeting him.
You are only considering his motivations as town. Why? As scum he alos had major reason to target me would he not?
Ok but from a game design standpoint, I don’t see it. It’s pretty unusual and when Ive seen it, it was scum sided. Seems op for town in a role mad game too, when there’s so many other roes as well.Tell ya what. It is a ballsy fake claim if you’re going for it, but I’m gonna need a damn good reason for it to be town here.
Im not goonna argue what roles would or would not exist in the game when I literally know my role and the theme extremely well. Wylted is saying I am town. What say you to that?
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@Cerulean
There was a point in time where he could have just waited for Whiteflame to hammer me, if I recall correctly. But he specifically unvoted when it was 3/5 to make it 2/5.Granted, there is a possible Mafia incentive in that a No Lynch leaves me as a potential lynch option down the line. So it's not particularly clearing.
I think this is why earth is trying to tie him to you, IE if he's scum you must be too. I agree there could be multiple reasons for him not hammering you though as scum, so I am not going to go down that WIFOM rabbit hole based on that alone.
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