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@Mharman
i guess Durza is on the table if it’s good v evil yeah
Durza technically was forced to work for galbatorix too, but I'd say that character was evil regardless of being forced to or not. You can see that from the opening prologue when he kills a couple of Urgals just for failing him. Durza is just bad in general.
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@Mharman
Sure he was forced, but he played an antagonistic role for a long time. How much does the series really emphasize him as a hero?
In literally every interaction with Eragon, its clear that Murtagh doesn't want to be in service to Galbatorix and is there against his will. His character is kind of tragic for this, and the Varden imprison him almost immediately in the first book when they reach Farthen Dur.
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@Earth
Why would Mafia!Wylted pass up an opportunity to free lynch a town?
In general it wouldn't look good for him to be on the hammer as scum. At the same time its also a risk I think wylted would be fully willing to take so idk. I am not saying though that cerulean being scum is off the table because of his claim alone, I just would need more behavioral evidence to pursue that is all.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
[Lunatic] Last night I primed wylted because I thought he was scum, but I'll not be able to kill him now since I am vanilla.Did Wylted know you primed him? He might call it self-defense if he did.
If he was town he would have no way of knowing what my role was, though I suspect he probably targeted me because I was openly skeptical of him and he didn't want to risk being investigated if he thought there was a chance I was an investigative role.
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@Mharman
Wylted is 100% scum. For one, he vanillized me.He probably scumread you.
He never indicated that, and note I was THE ONLY one scumreading him, so the only reason for him to do this was for omgus, which he wasn't doing publicly. So he was afraid of what I could be and knew I would proably target him.
Arsonist? I very skeptical of that. That seems like a batshit crazy role to put in this game.
If you knew the books, you would know this is the perfect role for Eragon actually, brisngr was the first word of power he learned in the books, and also grants him an OP sword towards the end of the series as he discovers is part of his swords true name.
And here you say how you targeted Wylted off a scumread. Why can’t he do the same to you?
He never stated scum reading me once, where as my vote was on him for the latter half of the day phase. Why are you buddying wylted so hard?
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@Earth
What do you think about Cerulean/Wylted?
I think wylted is scum for reasons already stated. Cerulean I am not so sure about, but he does have a really strong claim. Elva basically gets accidentally cursed by Eragon as a child, causing her to age extremely fast. Long story short His blessing was to make her "shielded from danger" but he accidentally says "you will be a shield from danger" because he is new to learning the ancient language and basically still is a teenager. The curse allows Elva to know when danger is coming and feel everyones worries, but it also forced her to act out on them and protect literally everyone. Later on Eragon fixes this part of the curse and makes it so she has free will over being forced into protecting people, basically turning her boon into a gift as she can see and sense oncoming danger. It actually does make a lot of sense with Oracle in certain ways, I could also see her being protective roles. If I was going to suspect Cerulean I would have to have more behavioral evidence, because atm he has a very strong claim.
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Even in my character list I said he was more likely to be third party or a miller, based on the logic of him being forced into service.
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@Mharman
Would anyone here call Murtagh a villain? He kind of is, although he breaks free of his enslavement at the end.If we call Murtagh a villain here, I definitely think it’s possible for Galbatorix to be town as well. I just don’t think there’s any reason to say Wylted’s scum, not even in the slightest.
Horrible horrible logic. Murtagh was FORCED to work FOR galbatorix. Galbatorix wasn't forced to be evil, he just was. I even said this in dp1. Murtagh being an antagonist was only because Galbatorix knows his true name. Murtagh literally had no choice but to serve him, and by the end of the series he breaks free from Galbatorix's service. Galabatorix, is and always was a bad guy out of his own choices.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
From DP1:Hold the f up why is everyone accepting wylted claim so easily? I get villains CAN exist in as town but he gave the absolute weakest justification I've ever seen for it, I feel like people are accepting it way too easily.I don't understand the point of having a theme if nothing can be inferred from the characters. Galbatorix isn't a grey character he is batshit insane evil.
Sometimes mods will purposely change the theme split to get people to think outside the box and not judge behavior purely off of theme. However it's not like that in every game, and I am surprised as hell that him being an evil character was as widely dismissed as it was last day phase as well.
At the same time I have no idea why Wylted if he was evil Galby would admit to being Galby but only good.
I mean, as you can see, it kind of worked in his favor. Too many people biting into the logic of "He wouldn't do that as mafia would he? no way thats too ballsy!" Entirely forgetting that being "too ballsy" is kind of wylteds thing. I've seen him make brazen plays like that multiple times. Don't know why people are excusing this for him now.
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Wylted is 100% scum. For one, he vanillized me. Literally no reason for him to do that. Also casey's role pm basically talks about galbatorix being evil as well. Like I didn't know that already, but for those of you who still need convincing.
And I guess since I am vanillized I will just full claim, as there is literally no reason not to. I am Eragon, IE the main character and protagonist. Because of my sword Brisngr has the power the ignite flames with its true name, I am the arsonist. I can prime a player each night and can ignite it once only during the game. Last night I primed wylted because I thought he was scum, but I'll not be able to kill him now since I am vanilla.
Also another reason why I thought Galbatorix was scum was because I am the main protagonist and am town, logically wylted as the main antagonist should be scum, obviously couldn't say that last day phase without outting my role though.
Anyway please for the love of god help me lynch wylted now. Anyone who was pro "wylted is town" for some random arbitrary reason that was never explained will be hot on my radar if wylted indeed flips scum.
VTL wylted
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@Earth
I don't understand Lunatic's logic. Reminds me of a past game I played with him before, I dont remember which, but his reasoning is off.
Please explain why you disagree instead of dismissing it offhand.
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@Cerulean
Right. That.I'm Oracle, but a very weak version of it, at least from my point of view. If I get nightkilled, the role of my last chosen target gets revealed. Not even the alignment, just the role.By saying this out loud, I will never be nightkilled and the ability is therefore worthless.
I haven't seen where you claimed elva yet, but since wylted said you claimed that I'll take it at face value for now. And I will also say oracle does make a lot of sense for elva. Elva is a side character but I can see her existing because she is a very important side character and shows the consequences of using magic without fully understanding it. Eragon grants her a blessing but mispronounces something as he is new to the ancient language, and it basically ends up cursing her. She end up with a kind of OP ability to mind read or something like that but can't turn it off, but I think they end up using her powers for good later on. She is a fairly significant character though, and so I give that one a pass as not being to "sidey"
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@Cerulean
Well, it depends. Do you think WyIted is that stupid and/or ballsy to hard claim a villain?
With wylted, its the latter. He is extremely ballsy, loves to gamble and take risks. If I cared enough I could find more than enough examples of him doing this.
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@AustinL0926
Cerulean not claiming despite time ticking down while also not actively scumhunting, doesn't make me comfortable. It's a strange lack of urgency considering we're heading towards what would be a mislynch from his pov if he's town.Since he's been at L - 1, Cerulean has posted 4 times:-Posted a wall of self-defense-Explained why he isn't claiming-Talked about mechanics/characters twiceIt lacks the proactivity I would expect from a town Cerulean, at the very least I don't want to let him skate by throughout the day without so much as a claim. Barring that, I don't really scumread anyone else either.VTL CeruleanL - 1 WARNING
Wait, if you put him at l-1 wasn't earth supposed to be the auto hammer? Why is no one questioning this?
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@Cerulean
VTL LunaticLet's shake things up, hm? I don't like the way he behaved around WyIted and it makes sense if the split really isn't as simple as "Good vs. Evil."
Your vote doesn't sway my opinion that you and every one else seem to be letting him off the hook too easily. We don't know the theme split, sure. Sure it's possible for town to exist as main villains, but he gave the weakest of weak justifications for doing so, and his role isn't actually a pro town role. In fact I also made a thematic reason for assuming why his character would fit that negative utility role based on book knowledge, and happened to be right on that count. There is more reason to believe that anti-town role = mafia then there is to believe anti-role role = town, for some arbitrary unexplained reason in context to the theme here.
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@whiteflame
Luna is doing some pretty good analysis of the claims so far and I'm liking his responses for the most part. The only caveat to that is the lack of response on Cerulean's claim. He sussed him a bit for being a minor character and mentioned wanting to get Cerulean's claim to see if it would be a more major character than Cerulean believed, but since Cerulean claimed, Luna hasn't mentioned it once, instead shifting the focus to WyIted. I get that this was an effort to get WyIted's full claim, but I don't know why his interest in Cerulean suddenly dropped off. I'm leaning town on Luna, but it's not as strong of a lean as it was.
Where and what did cerulean claim? My interest in them didn't drop off, I just got tired of waiting, and wylted was pinging me in the meantime. I havent seen his claim yet.
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Hold the f up why is everyone accepting wylted claim so easily? I get villains CAN exist in as town but he gave the absolute weakest justification I've ever seen for it, I feel like people are accepting it way too easily.
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@WyIted
You realize Galbatorix is the main antagonist in the series right?
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@WyIted
Can't tell if your being serious or not.
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@AustinL0926
A nightly vanillaizer is an extremely strong role for either alignment. I'm assuming it's real since it's verifiable. I think I've seen it more often as mafia-aligned, so if I buy into WIFOM I kinda don't think Wylted would so readily claim it. Then again, he has a reputation for ballsy plays as scum.Regardless, if we just leash Wylted and force him to vanillaize either the scummiest player or most negative utility one each night, we're basically forcing the role to help town so I don't see a problem.Outside of that, I think the way Wylted handled the claim and how he's been playing is pretty towny.
Do you see any valid reason for him to not reveal his character at this point? The way I see it, that role can be extremely anti town, maybe can be pro town like you said, but the character and justification will do wonders for me especially being familiar with the series. Ngl sounds kind of like galbatorix forcing murtagh to work for him since he knows his true name, IE maybe knowing someones true name means he can wipe their role or something. Thats why I think he wants to prove his role on earth since earth has already full claimed. knowing a character = knowing the name, and since he knows earths character he is hoping to use earth to prove himself. I know the theory seems wild, but it aligns with his actions and makes sense with why he wouldn't want to claim his character, especially now when theres the highest risk of CC
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@Casey_Risk
Hey everyone, I hope your new year is off to a better start than mine. I have a bad headache and just am not feeling that great right now. I'll try my best to be useful here.
yeah I had a splitting headache right after new years too, take lots of advil and feel better soon man
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@WyIted
I claimed my ability unprompted and under zero suspicion. I would like to keep the character to myself for a bit.
What logic is there to hide your character when your role is revealed?
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@WyIted
I haven't been reading that thoroughly. Why is everyone wanting cerulean claim
I want a cerulean claim because apparently he is a minor character, and as someone who is familiar with the series, there are enough "main" type characters for every of the 9 players in this game to be one. I think side characters are going to be a red flag for me, so I am curious what character he is. Chances are is character is more important in the series than he knows, maybe his researching makes him think its a side character, him claiming will clear that up however.
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@WyIted
What is your character and justification for being a vanillizer?
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@whiteflame
Fair enough. I tend to think that games like this where scum can ask about two characters' presence in the game are more likely to feature scum taking what look like bigger risks with their claims, if only because they have a greater opportunity to do so at low risk. That's WIFOM as well, but I can see how they might reach your conclusion as well.
Yeah I think the last time I was scum in a pie game I waited until like mid game to ask about certain characters because I didn't want to waste it until it was time to claim. Not sure if all scum teams operate similar to how we did or if some would just rip both questions off the bat, but I don't want to ignore the possibility they could be saving the questions for more claims for one of the scum while the other was wanting to go the safer route with a minor character.
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@whiteflame
That's a bit of modpsych and I'm not going to lean heavily on that view, but Cerulean's decision to out this in the same post where he was asking if anyone was among the major characters gives me a bit of a behavioral counter to said red flag.
I know its WIFOM, but I would do that as scum too if I was going into a theme I wasn't all too familiar with and didn't want to risk getting CC'ed by anyone.
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@WyIted
yes, the fact I think it could make me a utility lynch if there are no good suspects, which I think would be a mistake.
pie is the one that usually pushes utility lynches and hes modding
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@Cerulean
My character and role are also very closed tied together.It might be worthwhile to say if our characters are on the "Important Characters" list here. I ask specifically because mine isn't. This might narrow some things down.
Oh I see it. Yeah this is a bit sus. I'd like a character claim in this case. Chance are it is a bigger character than he thought, but if it isn't that is a bit odd. Cerulean can you at least answer if your character is on my list?
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@Casey_Risk
That's a fair point, actually. I know when I was designing Ace Attorney Mafia, I didn't get to include all the main characters I wanted. Miles Edgeworth and Dick Gumshoe were both notable omissions, but all the characters I did include were at least fairly important characters. Ace Attorney just has a ton of characters, and from the looks of it, it seems like this series has a lot of characters as well. That makes Cerulean seem a bit more sus.
What did Cerulean say? I missed it
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Keep in mind we have until january 5th so even with limited activity right now we aren't in a super huge rush.
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@Casey_Risk
I'd still like to make Earth prove himself today tbh.
According to him its automatic right? If we lynch someone as normal, and get them to l-1 his role should automate.
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@whiteflame
A list might be helpful, if only to give us some direction (I can base it off of the various "main character" lists I can find, though I'd probably have some omissions and inclusions that you wouldn't), but I think we should be careful about how much stock we put into it. I know I've been burned before by expectations of who should be in a given game based on their status in a given piece of media. Hell, I've used those expectations to my advantage as scum before.
Fair though I mostly see the use of this list being to identify characters that are too "sidey" as being more likely suspect claims. There are only 9 players and there are at least that many main or big characters, probably a few I left out too. Characters not on that list will be a big red flag for me, assuming its just not a big one I forgot about. I read this book series probably three or four times in my youth, but i'll admit it has been at least 10-15 years since I have read it so I am very foggy on the details. Paolini was my favorite author when I was like 16.
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@Casey_Risk
Interesting. Justification?
Yeah the justification actually kind of works with this character, in a more metaphorical than literal sense lol.
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Earth's claim is most like legit. I don't see how he could fake that as it is an automatic thing. That and Roran would have to be a fake claim for me to buy it's not town, and it's arguable that Roran is the main character of the series. In my opinion he kind of was. I was always more excited when Roran chapters happened, and thought Eragon's were a snoozefest in comparison. If it is a fake claim, then it is an incredibly strong fake claim, we can evaluate based on behavior but for now earth is solidly in my town pile.
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@whiteflame
My role has a negative utility we might want to discuss a bit so I can be directed.Alright, would you consider it an SOP claim? Saying it's negative utility and saying that you want to "be directed" gives me a general idea of what's going on, but it doesn't tell me whether you have a strong reason to claim now. If not, then I don't know what kind of direction you're looking for.
This tbh
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@WyIted
My role has a negative utility we might want to discuss a bit so I can be directed.I of course offer this so we can hopefully get some real conversation going
Do you see any big harm in claiming it?
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Main Characters Likely to exist:
Main Protagonists:
Eragon: I would be surprised if Eragon wasn't in the game as he is literally the protagonist of the books. He's the first person to bind to a dragon since the fall of dragons.
Roran: Leader of the Caravahall resistence, Eragon's cousing. A complete Fvcking badass and my favorite character in the books. "Stronghammer". Wields a basic blacksmith hammer but destroys everything he comes into contact with. Doesn't have powers like Eragon to be a complete badass.
Saphira: Eragon's dragon, can communicate with him telepathically. Can do basically anything a dragon can do. Likely in the game.
Brom: Brom is like the Gandalf of this series, there is a very high chance he is in the game. He teaches Eragon Magic, and mentors him. It's also later revealed that he is actually Eragon's father as a big plot twist. He dies fairly early on in the first book, but is still likely to be in the game with how prominent he is.
Arya: Eragon's love interest, she is the daughter of Queen Islanzadi.She accompanies Eragon through most of his adventures. I think she rejects him due to an age gap initially despite having feelings for him. She is like 100s of years old of and hes literally a prebuscent teenager. She's a badass in combat too if I remember correctly.
Big Side Characters:
Orik- King of dwarves
Oromis- Eragon's second mentor
Nasuada- Daughter of Ajihad, leader of the Varden after he father dies.
Angela- A Fortune telling time space and dimension traveling witch, who has a cat and gives Eragon a big hint to his future early in book 1.
Antagonists:
Murtagh- Would probably be considered more of a third party, he is forced to do everything for Galbatorix, rather than willingly. Maybe a miller, though hes the primary antagonist in the second and third book if I remember correctly.
Morzan- Last of the Forsworn
Ra'zac- Two bird like hunter things Eragon is chasing throughout the first book
The Twins- Two bald bad guys who betray the varden
Galbatorix- The main bad guy, surprisingly seen very little in the books til the very end.
I know I am missing a lot, these are largely based on memory, but there are a few side characters who I could see being in the game, maybe some of the Carvahall gang, or some of the Varden's elite warriors. I might listen to a youtube video to freshen up on these characters cuz I know I am missing a few
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@Cerulean
Evening, all. I haven't read this series, but I'll take some time to look it up in more detail later. It would definitely be worthwhile to see if we can at least speculate on what Mafia might have access to, role-wise.
I can put a character list together and say what I think pie would most likely put in the game, make a list for antagonists as well. Durza is like the main villain in the first book, but this is for the whole series so I am not exactly sure he would rank higher than other villains.
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@whiteflame
@ILikePie5
@AustinL0926
It's after Christmas now, what are your plans for this?
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@iamanabanana
forgive the misogynists for one game? :D
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@Barney
@whiteflame
looking like a back up may be needed
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I'll read it when I get a chance and get back to you.
It's a social deduction game, where 2 people are generally lying and hiding among the rest of the group. The group has to systematically decide who the two liars are. Their are roles and night actions mixed in to help people figure out who the liars are, but the liars also have roles to manipulate people. At the end of the day you have to use a mixture of your own gut and suspicions mixed with your in game results to come to conclusions about who these liars are. There is a voting system where the majority can vote a person out each day that they have to try and agree on is who the liar is. The liars goal is to survive as long as possible, and if they get to the point where their numbers are equal to the non liars number, the liars (mafia) win. If the town (non-liars) votes out all the liars the town win. Thats basically the gist of the game. Where the theme comes in is that the roles we get will generally have a link to the theme, so knowledge about the theme or research is often times necessary. You being familiar with this series for example would have a significant advantage going into the game, because you can assert whether someones justification fits in with the character and role they claim, and can more easily deduce whether someone is lying. Or vice versa if you are mafia, you can create a fake claim to blend in with the town easier based on your knowledge of the theme.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Alright the subject finally made me click on one of these mafia threads. So is this game observable?Also you can't recommend the book to people without warning them to stay the hell away from the movie and bury it deep if they ever find a copy.
We just pretend like the movie never happened.... What movie?
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Current Mafia:
Signups:
Pie - Inheritance Cycle Mafia
In the Hopper:
Lunatic-Choose your role!
Casey Risk - ERB Mafia
Mharman - Gunplay Mafia
On Hold:
None
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