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@Mharman
I can at least see him tunneling me like this as town,
Buddy this isn't even close to tunneling. lol
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@Mharman
Plus, as disingenuous as his arguments on me are,
Seriously?
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@Mharman
I'm not even trying to appeal to Lunatic anymore. I'm just trying to show yall how terrible his logic is.
Why are you even bothering to ask me questions then? It's not like im displaying ignorance, I am even asking you questions which you are ignoring, you never tried to "appeal" to me. This reads more like you got caught with your pants down and are lashing out angrily, instead of discussing this calmly. I don't feel you are trying to pursuade me of anything, you said this before I even responded to your posts asking me 4 questions lol.
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@Mharman
Ofc not. It’s the confirmation bias at work again.Let’s walk through this again.Q1: I have pressure on me. I could outright refuse to claim, at which point town would probably still push, with you and your confirmation bus leading the way. Alternatively, I could just get it over with, to not waste town’s time. What am I gonna pick?
Well first of all I am denying the existence of confirmation bias entirely. I laid out my reasons for town reading caseys claim independent of scum reading you. At that point I still wanted to give you time to see if you were going to keep up the macho man bravado act, which I scum read. You did. Earth giving scum a fake claim never factored into the argument that "I don't think casey is they type to fake claim hated".
The latter, of course! Especially if you’ve been saying you would be scumreading me off all these things for other reasons regardless. I can’t convince you, but I can hope that the rest of town recognizes I’m town.
You had the opportunity to convince me, and continued to behave the same way and justify your behavior, which I was in the beginning more or less just confused by. I could see a possible scum motive for the behavior, but the "oh fair enough I can see how you can see that" wasn't really a compelling argument against that, and when you continued to behave much the same way, where else am I supposed to look?
Q2: Let’s say I’m scum and I’ve decided to claim… should I use the fake claim Earth has generously provided, or should I claim an altered variation of it that has high chances of me being CCed?The former, of course! Why the hell would I NOT take a safe claim, especially if I was jumping at the pressure, as you suggest. An undoctored version of Earth’s fake claim would’ve been far safer and more likely to get me out of trouble if I were mafia.
Most people would just dismiss this as WIFOM out of hand and ignore this argument. It IS wifom, but it's not a convincing argument, because of course you would sell me that as mafia you would do the less mafia type of thing lol. If you are fake claiming, it was probably a factor you took into account prior to deciding to fake claim what you did. Alternatively the fake claim could still be in play and be getting saved for your partner, in which case you used deductive reasoning based on not having a counter to one or two of those roles to assume that you had a safe chance in claiming it. Either way, CC's only happen when mafia make mistakes, and they tend to happen the most early on in games where not much role information has been distributed. The "What I would have done as mafia" argument, tends to carry much less wight this early in the game.
Q3: If I’m scum and not using Earth’s fake claim, what can you conclude from that?That scum has already used their fake claim, and I needed to come up with one on my own! Which would require an implication of Casey, given that she’s the only other player who has full claimed up to this point.
OR they are saving it for their partner, or you simply screwed up the variation of the fake claim like I pointed out. All of these have extremely easy explanations, yet you act as if there is only one right answer to any of these. And I still don't get how this implicates casey.
Q4: Are you going to scumread a claim that initially said was preventing you from scumreading Casey?
None of any recent revelation if a factor in why I town read casey as stated above. Regardless of if the fake claim was provided, I do not think casey the type to claim hated dp1, and think the riskier of the scum might take that as a fake claim, assuming they had that as a fake claim to begin with. Chances are it's just a legit hated townie.
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@Skipper_Sr
@WyIted
tagging you as well for the above post ^
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@Barney
@whiteflame
@ILikePie5
@Casey_Risk
@Cerulean
Tagging you serperately so the CC doesn't get lost in the ether of me and mharmans back and forth. Mharman claimed investigative JOAT with Watcher, Doctor, and Cop as his 3 abilities. I am CC'ing one of these abilities as an everynight ability. Why this is a CC to me is because earth's town PRs in his first game consisted of a bodyguard, motion detector, a diary writer (if you can count that as a PR) and a justice. We had three vanillas.
We are going from earths first game being extremely vanilla heavy and conservative on power roles, to an investigative JOAT and an everynight one of those abilities, is a hard sell.
I'll leave it up to you guys to decide for yourselves though.
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@Mharman
*Which would require you to scumread Casey
Why can't casey just be normal hated town, I don't understand your point?
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@Mharman
I will add that you also have no idea what scum has this game…
Of course I don't, but I find it highly unlikely for Town to be equipped with so much PR in an earth game. Earths last game had a motion detector, and one justice as its PR roles and 3 vanillas. You going to tell me that he goes from a 3 vanilla having game to just throwing the kitchen sink at town with power roles? Not to mention there is still room for others to have a power role here, I think it's 100% more likely you are just scum and lying then earth changed his modding MO from years mafia.
His mafia PR wasn't that OP either while were on the subject. It had 2x rolecop and a deflector and a ninja in it's JOAT.
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@Mharman
Additionally, to read my claim as scummy, you’d have to believe that either Earth gave out a bastard fake claim, or that mafia already used their fake claim… which would require you to scumread Earth. Which would require you to ignore everything that made you give her a pass based on her claim.
Pretty sure you just used some variation of a fake claim using information given from the mod. Also even if my role didn't CC you I would have been highly suspicious of you claiming that outright. You full claimed a JOAT and ALL of your abilities, which are super OP. Imagine if you are town, you have like most of the power role on you. And you just claimed? You had a couple of pressure votes on you, and sure maybe we could have pressed for more information, but you didn't think to start with just a character claim? You claimed your whole ASS town power role? Yeah even if I didn't CC you I would be pushing your lynch hella right now. I might have been able to push it without CC'ing you, but ultimately I don't wanna WIFOM with everyone to the point where it would be worth it. Assuming there is two scum here, 1 town power role is a good enough trade for 1 guaranteed scum.
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Mharmans scum. I am not going to say which, but I am counterclaiming one of his abilities as a full time ability. Seems incredibly OP to have a full time of what I am plus an investigative JOAT.
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@Mharman
This is a bullshit reason. If I’m not aggro enough to be on your list of people who’d fake claim miller as scum, I’m not aggro enough to do all this as scum.
I was actually thinking about adding your name to that list of people as well but that was one of my first posts evaluating the day phase. I am starting to think you'd be one to to do this as well, purely based on how you've been acting this day phase. I think I had a lock on read of you of lately as being purely analytical and I am seeing a different side now that we are actually playing together.
Or maybe not being a mod, and being a player who is skpetic of everything because Im trying to catch mafia, it puts me in a position of having to evaluate your behavior from an unknown perspective, whereas usually modding, I know you are town and your behavior thus seems normal to me in those contexts.
If this is about the rap lyrics, go back to Ace Attorney Mafia. You were there for it. You scumread me that game (albeit for a different reason) and I turned out to be town).
I don't see why you would point this out randomly if you yourself said I was voting you for a different reason there. And no it's not about the rap lyric itself, its the whole message. I am assuming you know the history about the beef between Ja and em, that you would treat cerulean voting you for activity the same way em treated Ja coming after him and his family for simply being associated with his rival 50, its just very different. And the same time you are acknowleding that you expected him to expect you to react that way, and seem to acknowledge that doing it would be scummy. But you still play into it, and almost hope the acknowledgement of that fact will excuse the behavior as scummy. I'd almost forgive the omgus by itself, if you didn't draw so much attention to it in the first place.
And about my age and previous game. You are speaking things you know nothing of.1. You don’t know how my mind works.
I don't really know anyone in this game on a personal level, you could make this same "argument" (if you want to call it that) for me FOSing literally any other person in this game for any other reason. Imagine if I just reflected any FOS ever placed on me by just saying "You don't know me bruh!"
That argument is ridiculous. Obviously I don't know you. I have to determine from the little of you I do know and try to understand why you would do things that don't make sense based on the very little of you I have come to know in mafia.
I can draw the conclusion on your age because I remember being in my mid twenties or so when you were first on DDO playing mafia, and got banned for throwing a game or something (I don't remember the exact situation anymore, only that you had since apologized and came back and were a much more respectable player) but I remember at the time you were like 14 or 15, a teenager. So me being in my thirties now, I can assume that you are in your early or mid twenties. And I remember how I played at that stage, so I am loosely basing my own hot headed nature based on you doing things I remember doing when I was a similar age as you. That's not me saying I know you, or know what you would do, just drawing my best conclusions with the evidence provided to me.
2. There is no confidence from last game that is gonna make me pull a risky near complete throw move as mafia.
So are you admitting you think this was a risky move? Why do it then and was the risk worth the "gain" if there was any?
You could give me all the bravery in the world, and I’d have no reason to do it. In fact, I could’ve waited for town to accuse Cerulean if I wanted a mislynch on him as mafia.
Why do you think cerulean would have been accused?
3. If I had a good town game, where any should any confidence I gain go? Into my scum hunting abilities, of course. If I got overconfident, it caused me to trust a bad read way too much as town.
But you admit, there is certain people, regardless of affiliation, who are harder to lynch than others right? Lets say pie does something scummy and moozer does something scummy. 9/10 pie is going to be more likely to talk himself out of a lynch than moozer is right? My suggestion is that after having a good town game, you might be willing to play in a way that you feel is riskier if you think you have the same intimidation factor that pie has in threatening people off your lynch, by either intimidation (in the case with cerulean) or just activity and posting massive block of texts in which several people (not me) might be intimidated away from continued pressure. If moozer had done the same thing as you for example, moozer is going to maybe come up with a paragraph TOPS to defend himself. More likely a bunch of one liners begging people not to lynch him, and some poorly written excuses.
I think my point is made here, but Tl;DR I think you think you might fit into the former category especially after a succesful win in a game like the last one. However even if you erase that part of my argument, you are demonstrating that you fall into the "difficult" to lynch category either way, which lends the same credence to my point that if the risk of scaring off cerulean by intimidation was worth the risk of being scummy, and you can nay the naysayers by saying "Hey look I admitted it was omgus so its not as scummy right"?
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VTL Mharman.
This aggressiveness doesn't feel like his town aggressiveness, it just more like a "I dare you to fvck with me" type of macho vibe, it worries me because I think as town mharman is much more methodical and logical. My gut is telling me this mharman isn't town, so I am going to stick with my vote here.
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@Mharman
The simpler explanation is that I really believed what I was saying at the time… lemme ask: Can you picture yourself, Wylted, or Pie doing what I’m doing as scum?
I think this is a scum tell exclusive to you, based on your age, confidence level, and current ego. Just judging from things I've seen, I think it's more likely to your trying to flaunt this "imabadass" side to initmidate people away from you. Your selling it a bit too hard though, and I don't like it.
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@ILikePie5
Oho, an actual push on me. Let's see what you've got, Mhar. Reading through it now.Don’t like this reaction
Conspiracy theory time: do you read this interaction between them as a potential bus or are you really sold on mharmans case
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@Mharman
This is a ridiculous point tho. If I’m overconfident because of a good town game, it would lead me to be overconfident in bad reads as town too. You seem to think my read on Cerulean is so bad, so why is this not a point in your head?
I am just trying to draw an explanation for why you would resort to making such a large "OMGUS" post while addressing its omgus and your being baited, to still allow yourself to be baited in hopes of it not looking like omgus... Only other thing I can think of is that your pulling an intimidation tactic, some chest beating and hoping you can get away with the behavior that is normally looked as at scummy by calling it out in advance, and hoping to ride of the victory of your last game to somehow earn you some town cred.
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@Mharman
Of course, I interpreted that as part of his plan, when it really doesn’t have to be that complicated. So I took his whole plan as I saw it as some sort of challenge, and got ready and hyped for the Rust 1v1. I did this with Austin a few games ago, if you remember.
That fact that you thought he had a plan from a simple activity garnering vote is what is interesting. But anyways, im not voting you or anything, just found the reaction a bit overt. I am not sure if this is in character for you, I don't think ive actually played with you in a while despite hosting games with you in them, and they are spaced out enough where I tend to forget some of your playstyle and tendencies.
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@Casey_Risk
I didn't know what SOP meant in my first game, either. Heck, even in the last game, I had to explain the term to Mharman. You saw that, right?The one thing I can agree with you on is Skipper mentioning PMs. I feel like it should be pretty common sense that you can't just PM other players, and that does make me want to suspect Skipper. Behaviorally, I've gone back and forth on him, but right now I'm back to a town read.
Are you american? I just feel like SOP is a very common one for americans, or at least I have seen that term used in almost every job I have ever worked, so for me that one seems a bit obvious. If people are saying they aren't familiar with it, I can't really argue that, just that it seems weird to me that it's one people aren't used to is all.
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@WyIted
You are right that Casey is likely to be too conservative for the hated claim, but me, you and Barney seemed to naturally and independently pick up on mharman's flawed logic. Maybe it's because of our experience, but why was an active Casey not noticing obviously flawed logic at the time?
He actually argued against him just to cave and place his vote anyway. Idk I wasn't reading that much into it. Might consider it scummy if I didn't think the hated claim was so out of pocket for him.
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@Cerulean
I do also think pushing me is probably a tad villagery just because I'm a difficult mislynch to swing for Mafia and there are easier targets in this game.
Nah, Mharman is a young guy I believe early twenties, and he's coming hot off a town game he did rather well in. This bolsters his confidence quite a bit I think and is leaving him feel a bit invulnerable. Speaking as someone who played like this as mafia a lot after a strong town win where I am placed as mafia next, trying to ride off the success and town reads of the last game by pushing someone super aggressively as scum in the next game. If I hadn't been in this spot before I wouldn't suspect it so much. But maybe I am wrong, I wanna see how this plays out.
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@Mharman
Damn mharman, you had me at first and I was starting to like your posts. I was picking up on the stuff you were laying down with skipper, because I also think he was laying the noob stuff on a lil too thick. Some of the questions almost seem like he is selling it too hard (asking what "SOP" means for example, that is a fairly common piece of terminology used all over the world, almost anyone who has ever had a real job knows what a "Standard Operating Procedure" is. That and I when he was asking about the pm stuff, a lot of that felt fairly common sense to me and where he over sold it is trying to say "Earth doesn't have my discord information, so I guess I have to be town right? haha right guys? look at silly little innocent noob me hahah!"
Anyways I was with you til your OMGUS with cerulean. Cerulean more or less seemed concerned that you weren't being active and placed a vote on you to get you to post, and by god did you make a mountain out of a molehill to respond to it. Even qouting one of Eminem's famous diss songs against Ja rule "Bump heads" (love that song btw, hard af. Almost seems like you are trying to be a badass and intimidate people off your lynch, which if you are genuinely town, you don't need to be doing this. This bravado does much the opposite, and I say that from the perspective as someone who has used this tactic with varying success as mafia before. I don't like it, and it seemed entirely unnecessary.
Defending yourself is one thing, but going so far out of your way to make that push out to be anything more than a post to garner activity, and view it as an actual scum read against you... Yeah I don't like it.
Other than that, I am willing to place casey in the town pile as well. It's been a long time since i've seen anyone in mafia do a ballsy dp1 miller/hated claim. While they can be super successful, they are in general very very risky, and one hasn't happened here in years. 99% of the time people are too conservative as scum on this site to pull something risky like that, and one day it will bite us in the @ss again, and when it does we can re-evaluate this logic, but the only person I would really see making a move like this as scum is maybe Wylted, myself, maybe Pie even though I think he tends to play a more conservative scum game. Anyone else, yeah it's just very very unlikely.
I do want to watch how mharman continues with this before I fully FOS him, but yeah right now I am not liking this avenue against cerulean.
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@WyIted
He'll yeah. A bunch of buff guys in skin tight pants grabbing each other and having their bodies explode into each other.Always love seeing the back field penetrated by the tight end there. Another great part of football is when the QB puts his hands just beneath the groin of the center to grab a "ball"You are doing some real heterosexual stuff there.
Sounds like you watch for a very specific set of reasons man, but hey its 2024, I am not judging.
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Don’t know much about paper Mario, I’ve played a few Mario games but never extensively or to completion
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Sup yall, will be watching some football games today but ill be around
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Current Mafia:
None
Signups:
Earth - Paper Mario Mafia
In the Hopper:
Mharman - Gunplay Mafia
Cerulean - Albums Mafia
Pie - Inheritance Cycle Mafia
Lunatic- TBD
On Hold:
None
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LikeMagic, that was her name.
Yeah maybe I went a lil too hard. Oh well past is the past. I don't care about the game as much anymore to die on hills like this anymore. lol
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@ILikePie5
Likewise :)
Yeah I am a dick too. I chased away Danielle and her friend (forget the girls name now). So I still have chased away one more female mafia player than you. Get on my level bro!
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@iamanabanana
Don't blame the rest of us for the actions of the few lol. Pie is literally always a dick, Wylted is a notorious troll and likes to provoke reactions from people, you shouldn't take anything he says seriously. Don't give up on mafia though because of one game. I actually agree with whiteflame and thought you did really good. Whether you were lynched for solid reasons or not could be up for debate, but I do think there was an equal amount of suspicion on other players. Maybe you offending other players was the nail in your coffin, but I don't think it would have mattered that you were a female or not. If you piss pie of or disagree with him in general he is likely to want to lynch you, it's why one time when I was mafia I just straight buddied him and svcked up to his every read, and he basically won the game for me as mafia by leading all the mislynches and town confirming me. You are right that players have ego's, just wrong that it has anything to do with the male/female dynamic lol.
Anyways, hope you come back, but if not, well GG it was fun while it lasted.
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Yall should watch "inside" on netflix, very good special from bo burnham. Of course "What" and "Make Happy" are also goldmines.
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Town Wins: (1st) iLikePie5, Moozer, mharman, Wylted, Casey, OwenT, Vader
Mafia Loses: (2nd) Whiteflame, Banana
Role PMs: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1k05HBVn1jDB_rxjM31VskZtUyZdm7SnotlKz7RZ1Hxs/edit?usp=sharing
Night actions: https://docs.google.com/document/d/10p56s9KHoQT6rM7emwVp6rYNgkJtj616gLPauC298BY/edit?usp=sharing
Wow, what a short game. Town killed it. Didn't have a ton of power roles on either side this time, and without a theme split. the game was mostly solved on behavior. I don't really like the MVP thing, but shout out to mharman for playing well dp1 depsite an inactive environment, and pie did very well with his reads as well. Casey had good insight as well.
Good job town, you killed it.
Discuss...
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Final Vote Count:
Banana- 5/4- Casey, Vader, pie, moozer, moozer
Pie- 1/4- Banana
Owen- 1/4- Moozer
Banana was lynched! She was guilty! Night actions due in 48 hours.
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“The simple narrative taught in every history class, Is demonstrably false and pedagogically classist. Don't you know the world is built with blood? And genocide and exploitation
The global network of capital essentially functions. To separate the worker from the means of production.”
Pie- 2/4- Banana, Moozer
Banana- 2/4- Casey, Vader
Owen- 1/4- Moozer
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"I wouldn't have got the lettuce if I knew it wouldn't fit, wouldn't have got the cheese if I knew it wouldn't fit, wouldn't have got half of this like... I'm okay with small mistakes, if you got no more chicken I'll take pork... But I'll blow my dad before I eat a burrito with a fork!"
Pie- 2/4- Banana, Moozer
Banana- 1/4- Casey
Owen- 1/4- Moozer
Banana- 1/4- Casey
Owen- 1/4- Moozer
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Graveyard:
Whiteflame: You are “Kill Yourself”
“Okay, now, I feel like you’ve pulled back. Maybe it’s on account of the fact that I’m telling you to kill yourselves over and over again.”
You are one of Bo’s edgier songs whose point is to make fun of songs that give moral wisdom with simplified lyricism. Bo is probably one of the few comedians who can get away with making a song like this and not getting canceled for it. You are the Suicide Bomb. If you get lynched, the final person on your lynch wagon will “Kill themselves” and go down with you. You win with the mafia.
Wylted: You are “Can’t Handle This”
“I know I’m not a doctor, I’m a pvssy, I put on a silly show. I should probably just shut up and do my job so here I go…”
This is a song that kind of initially mocks the way Kanye West likes to talk about first world problems during his concerts in a silly rant style with autotune on his voice. While the song starts out silly, it eventually gives you an emotional gut punch as you realize the song is actually about Bo’s mental health struggles and deals with the fact he suffers from severe anxiety and eludes to how he had panic attacks on stage (he reportedly even had one during his famous netflix performance of this song towards the end). After the epic mic drop in this song on the finale of “Make Happy”, Bo retires from comedy for 5 years, reportedly getting therapeutic help for his mental health. Since this song talks about the issues that were the driving force to him getting help, you are the Doctor. Each night you may select a player and protect them from being killed during the night phase. You may not protect yourself. You win with the town.
Mharman: You are “All eyes on me”
“They say the Ocean’s rising, like I give a sh1t. They say the whole world's ending, honey it already did. You're not gonna slow it, heavens know you tried. Got it? Good, now get inside.”
This song is Bo being vulnerable about his mental health, both his growth and decline after five years of therapy just to deal with the pandemic that stuck him inside his house for a year to suffer with his own thoughts. This is Bo opening up about everything he has been dealing with, and being vulnerable by making close eye contact with the audience and inviting them to get a true look into him and his soul. You are the Gramps. Since all eyes are on you, each night you will learn who visited you, unless you are Roleblocked or killed. You win with the town.
Living Players:
1. iLikePie5
2. casey
3. Moozer
4. Vader
5. OwenT
6. Banana
With 6 players remaining, it takes 4 votes to reach a lynch.
72 hours remain in the phase. The day phase ends on 11/7/24 @ 2pm CST.
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Official Vote Count:
Whiteflame- 5 /5- mharman, moozer, pie, WF, wylted
Owen- 1/5-whiteflame
pie- 1/5- banana
Whiteflame was lynched! He was guilty! After listening to too many Katy Perry Lyrics and not finding enough self wisdom, wylted has horrificly decided to drink a Haitian guys blood, thus committing suicide. Wylted was innocent!
Night actions due in 48 hours.
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"We think we know you"
Whiteflame- 3 /5- mharman, moozer, pie
Owen- 1/5-whiteflame
pie- 1/5- banana
1 hour remains
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"If you wake up in a house that's full of smoke, don't panic, call me and i'll tell you a joke. If you see a bunch of men in white cloaks, don't panic, call me and i'll tell you a joke. Oh sh1t... Should I be joking at a time like this?"
Owen- 2/5- Wylted, whiteflame
Whiteflame- 2 /5- casey, mharman
pie- 1/5- banana
banana- 1/5- Pie
Whiteflame- 2 /5- casey, mharman
pie- 1/5- banana
banana- 1/5- Pie
3 hours remain in the day phase.
Sorry for the delay with the vote count, I'll try to keep better track of it. Wasn't expecting that burst of activity last night, and was watching a movie with my gf.
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@Moozer325
Can we get a vote count/ time check?
Might be a while sorry. Was trying to do it on my phone and I lost track. when im at a computer I’ll update it.
As for time, 12.5 hours remain.
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@Casey_Risk
I thought this DP was going to end in the morning? If it's actually going to end at 10:30 at night, then that also works ig.
No you are correct, I made a mistake and can't do math. The day phase ends in 13.5 hours. Sorry.
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"I saw an old man get hit by a train! He didn't hear me in the pouring rain. He didn't hear me say "look out for the train!" Because I didn't say anything... I just thought 'this is gonna be sad'. And it was. I'm a genius."
Owen- 2/5- Wylted, whiteflame
pie- 2/5- banana, casey
banana- 1/5- Pie
This is probably wrong, I got a bit confused doing the vote count. let me know if I need to fix it.
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"I met a homeless man named Rich? Isn't that terrible? I saw a flyer for a lost dog, but the dog didn't have any legs!"
Vader- 1/5- Pie
Wylted- 1/5- Casey
Banana- 1/5- Wylted
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"Books you think I wrote are way too thick. Who needs a thousand metaphors to say "you shouldn't be a dick."? And I don't watch you when you sleep. Surprisingly I don't use my omnipotence to be a fvcking creep."
Vader- 1/5- Pie
Banana- 1/5- Mharman
OwenT- 1/5- Whiteflame
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@whiteflame
@ILikePie5
@Mharman
@WyIted
@Casey_Risk
dp1
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