Total posts: 10,910
Posted in:
-->
@whiteflame
Also the distinction between people who voted two scum vs and you and pie is that you weren’t on the lynch or any lynch. Both you and pie were the largest posters in the game and had no reason not to have had plenty of time to vote. It therefor seems intentional that you didn’t vote on purpose so you could cast stones at the lynch that happened by voting two scum being on it knowing if there wasn’t two scum on it, it would mess with the results and Austin would give us less information. Cerulean and Casey both participated on the wagon and if they are townies have the right to be suspicious of the wagon. The first thing you did when you came into dp2 Whiteflame was say it’s wierd people voted for Owen as if there was really another option besides no lunching at that point. It makes your lack of participation on the lynch even scummier. Again I fully think town Whiteflame (even if busy) is prepared enough to set up his final vote I’ll advance. The way it went down just makes it look so shady.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Moozer325
Well that sucks because I strengthened Pie.
Bro… why the fvck did you do that….
Created:
Posted in:
So Whiteflame still hasn’t claimed yet, just provided a bunch of wifom about why he missed the vote. Nothing changes the fact about how he was convienently there to be vote either way, and why he let the day phase go so long without letting giving a final thoughts and analysis post beforehand if he knew he was going to cut it close.
Pie is going to avoid claiming I guess by faking being silenced.
Wf needs more votes. Also I think it’s funny he’s actually fossing me for not omgusing moozer. It’s ironic considering how many people were accusing me of OMGUS last day phase without fully understanding what OMGUS was for whiteflame to say it’s scummy that I am not doing that lol. Yeah moozer is being an idiot but he isn’t this aggressive as scum, I literally just played a scum game with him. Also I still buy his role with all the role prevention being in the game. He’s not town confirmed but until I have a reason to not suspect the two biggest fish right now, pie and whiteflame, I’m not gonna really focus on anyone else. Earth banana moozer and cerulean all seem townier than whiteflame and pie do.
Created:
Posted in:
Also I will claim since I think mafia already guessed my role anyway based on what I said last day phase, and I am unlikely to bait an action from them at this point.
I am Helios Airway Flight 522, and I am the Ascetic. Basically the pilots died to Hypoxia after thinking the warning lights were a faulty air conditioner, and the oxygen masks didn't come out til too late. This incident led to better designs in cabin designs in the future. The justification for ascetic is that the deaths happened long after their fates were already apparent when the plane crashed due to lack of fuel. Like I had said before it is kind of a loose justification in my opinion, which is why I wasn't agreeing with pie about the strengthener being out of the question because lack of a strong justification. It makes sense to austin at least.
Anyways, I've claimed so there is no reason why pie and whiteflame should with hold theirs especially after their scummy actions last day phase.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Earth
I think both WF and Pie need to full claim today.
I can't wait to hear pie's bullsh1t excuse for not voting as well lol
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@iamanabanana
BTW I also thought it was super weird how pie had avoided voting last day phase and chose 2 for his answer.
THANKYOU. I am glad I am not the only one with a strong bullshit radar around here.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Casey_Risk
Tbh I did also find that post where he answered a question after Owen got lynched to be pretty suspicious. It felt too showy, y'know?
Whiteflame is too planned and coordinated to miss the lynch. I think he was planning on avoiding the lynch the whole time. He kept posting throughout the day little "I am catching up" posts to set it up to look like it was possible he would miss the lynch. This simply never happens with whiteflame. Again even if I am buying he was super busy on the last day phase, whiteflame would have prepared for this as town in advance by posting his final thoughts analysis, and vote ahead of time. He doesn't just "oopsie" let the day phase expire to an hour left and make it right after everything concludes. He was very aware the whole time. This argument works tenfold with pie who was literally there all day phase and never voted.
Anyways, win or lose, I just want it known I called that whiteflame and pie were scum. I believe they can and probably will manipulate a good portion of town into thinking otherwise, but I called it at least, thats win enough for me.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Moozer325
The only option was that Lunatic was trying to draw the lynch on to him because he knew he had a really good legacy role. I’ll leave it to him to see if my prediction was right, but I’m about 90% sure about this one. I wish he has tried to draw the NK instead, but that was his call.
Super wrong, you have tunnel vision, I’m ignoring your dumb ass the rest of the game.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Earth
That’s my point, voted two scum on the wagon when him and pie didn’t vote. And he was there immediately after the lunch happened and even closed the thread but is trying to play it off as if he didn’t have time. If you were scum and knew being on the lynch and people guessing you are in the lynch could implicate you, you wanna avoid the lynch since it works like a sensor. In what universe does either Whiteflame or pie miss a lynch? There was literally only an hour of the day phase left. And he was there immediately when it ended. And he votes two scum to screw with the results that would give town info. That’s exactly the play to make if you are scum. It’s more obvious for pie who was on all day and would literally never do this. Whiteflames just trying to make an excuse, but you know Whiteflame he would have voted early to avoid a potential no lynch rather than wait til 1hour is left in the day phase if he knew there was a chance he couldn’t get on. This should be so obvious he was avoiding the lynch because he thought people would select scum being on the lynch which would implicate him. So if both mafia aren’t on the lynch and both vote two it screws with towns chances of getting information from austin
Created:
Posted in:
Does no one else find Whiteflame and pies lack of participation on the vote yet voting 2 scum in the wagon super suspicious? Think about it. If they are scum and want to sabotage information town would get from wagon, that was exactly the play. You think Whiteflame would wait to vote until last minute in ajy other circumstance? What about pie? Definitely not pie. And if Whiteflame knew he would be on he would have voted in advance. Whiteflame is way to articulate to just convienently “miss” voting and play it off like that. If this doesn’t scream scum to you, you are blind.
Created:
Posted in:
Whiteflame. Bull sh1t. Bull absolute fucking bull sh1t. You were there IMMEDIATELY to answer how many scum were on the wagon. You don’t just let the day phase go on til 1 hour remaining and not vote. You avoiding voting was extremely obvious because you didn’t want to be implicated by the lynch. It’s even more obvious in pies case who was on all day and never lets the phase go on with a no lunch. Even if he thought Owen was town he would have voted for him. His avoidance of the lynch obviously implicates him and you I guarantee has the time to post. If not then it was your fault for waiting for so long to post. But an hour of the day phase left who else were we going to lynch anyway? I don’t buy in the slightest that both of you just “missed” that lynch and convienently voted two scum on the wagon to sabotage whatever info Austin would give us. That is honestly sus as hell.
Down to lynch either Whiteflame or pie this day phase.
VTL Whiteflame though for the obvious bull shit “oh I couldn’t make it to vote in time ooooo”
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ILikePie5
So who’s your lynch now considering both the people you defended want to lynch you for…defending you.
im not placing much stock in the votes against me, I know they are weightless. I don't think owen is scum but out of the viable options he is probably best, unless we are buying that there are three town role prevention style roles. Which could be true. Behaviorally I don't scum read owen and his final pleas for his life really remind me of the first time he was lynched in his first game. So I think this will likely be a mislynch. That said I guess it's better than a no lynch and I dont think there is enough pull to get a lynch on you or whiteflame, so it will have to do.
I Can vote now or closer to the time expiration it doesn't matter.
For the record I am like 60% feeling like this is gonna be a mislynch. But the information might be useful.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Cerulean
I can also verify that Town Lunatic is a fairly strong player from the Champs game I read- which might not be a perfect indicator compared to here, but it at least shows he's able to put in the effort and put in the pushes.
While I appreciate the compliment, I did pretty horrible in the champs game lol. I tried, but got too tunnel vision with santy and dannflor.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Owen_T
can someone please actually point out one point of omgus? My vote has been on pie the whole day phase. Pie hasn't voted me. This makes no sense lol I told someone I TOWNREAD to go fvck himself. That isn't omgus. Thats just being a dick. I won't deny being a dick.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ILikePie5
Maybe town is all neg utility rolesYa, no
It goes hand in hand with your suggestion about strengthener being scum. That said I don't neccesarily buy it either, just throwing sh1t in the wind to see what sticks
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Owen_T
Moozer's logic makes sense, and without a better option I'll VTL Lunatic
Are you only voting me because you are the other alternative? Because that is what it seems like lol
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Moozer325
He’s been super aggressive this whole game which is actually pretty off-brand for him. Other stuff too.
You don't know me very well at all. I am usually pretty aggressive as town actually. I was passive in the last game, ultra passive, and I was scum. Find some examples where I am passive as town please,
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@iamanabanana
caseys definition is more accurate than moozers. Moozers pride is just hurt is all.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Moozer325
OMGUS is short for OMG U Suck! Scum often lash out when people accuse them, and Lunatic has done the definition of that.
It actually means counter voting for someone who has voted for you in hopes of initimidating them off of your wagon. You seem to not like the fact that I said "Fvck you" to you earlier and are taking it personally.
That said I've maintained my position that you are town this whole time. So your understanding of OMGUS is just wrong. Lastly,
Fvck you.
:)
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Moozer325
I still want to lynch Lunatic, but if it starts to get less likely that it will happen, I can jump on someone else’s wagon.
Let me get this straight, your primary reason for the death tunnel is that I defended you. I’ve since mentioned that my role relates to role prevention and you claimed strengthener. Does it not make sense to you why I would believe your role is in the game?
Created:
Posted in:
Owens pleas here feel like normal townie Owen. I’d really rather not lynch him. Cerulean is gonna have a hay day with me saying that lol
Created:
Posted in:
I guess out of all the claims Owens probably stands out the most. I believe he is a messenger cuz why lie about that, but affiliation confirmation =/= role confirmation. I was just a scum messenger. That said I don’t really want to lynch Owen. I feel like pie is scum and he’s my number one. Not really trying to be stubborn here but I’d rather no lynch than lynch someone I think is likely to flip town.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ILikePie5
Out of the 4 people who have claimed, who do you want to lynch today
I still wanna lynch you. I don’t really want to lynch any of the claims.
Created:
Posted in:
I am going to watch the 49'ers game at a friends house, ill be checking in on my phone, but post quality will go down.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ILikePie5
I have you and Owen as null. I wasn’t the first one to even to sus you. But the fact you were drunk is interesting in the context of leaving Owen off your list.
Well that was way earlier and I wasn't at that point. Like I said to cerulean just forgot about him because he hadn't posted.
My logic is always the same. Role/character + behavior + justification. The holy grail of scum reading. You have all of those and the odds of being scum skyrocket. You can disagree with my methodology, but it’s not ‘weak’ nor is it scummy. I’ve used the same methodology to catch scum multiple times.
The only problem was that your analysis of Moozer contained no behavioral reasons whatsoever. It was all based on loose justification. We now have several people claiming loose justification.
I already backed off of Moozer for the fear of tunneling him based on reads from other people, who not all of them can we town.
I noticed that, trying to decide if it's genuine or if it's because multiple people have called you out for it at this point.
The justification as Strengthener is not just weak, it’s non-existent. This is exactly the type of stuff town missed last game.
It seemed to me that you dis-agreed with the justification, or thought a better role fit it. Which like I said, I feel that way all the time when reading justifications for other mods roles, and even myself as a mod will stretch the link of a role to make a role I like fit. The reasons he gave made sense to me though for his role.
Like I said, it’s not even a stretch. Explain how no one dying on a flight is indicative of a Strengther, even weakly.
Moozer already did, you just didn't like it. I and several other do like it.
Created:
Posted in:
So im not gonna directly claim, but I will say my role also deals with role prevention. That's now three different claims in a similar category. I am not saying one of the three of us has to be scum because of this, but it is interesting. At the very least, it lends a lot more credit to the idea of a strengthener.
Created:
Posted in:
Lets lynch pie
Don't be afraid. Once he's dead he can't intimidate you anymore.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Moozer325
Unless anything changes majorly over the course of this DP, I’m ready to lynch Lunatic.
This is pretty ironic, considering one of ceruleans points against me being scum was that I was defending you too hard against pie lol.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Cerulean
But enough rambling over oldish posts- Lunatic, I want to hear from you directly about this. Why was Owen so null/forgettable to you there when his primary contribution by the point of your readslist was supporting Pie and Whiteflame on the Moozer pressure?
Yeah I think I answered this already, but he didn't even make a post at that time. I was just winging a read list at the time too, it wasn't a carefully thought out process, or something I was even planning on doing. I had mentioned like 4 other players and so I just said at this point I might as well just do a read list. I was on mobile and at dinner as well. After posting it just realized owen wasn't included in it, but didn't have anything to say about him because he hadn't posted yet.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@whiteflame
Alright then. Just so you know, Pie wasn't the one originally sussing you.As for me, I'm not going to read into this response since... yeah, I buy that that's what is going on. I'll give you some time to sober up.
Sorry about that, but in general I am not gonna claim day phase one for virtually no reason, especially if other vets like you and pie haven't yet. Immediately seeing I had three votes, I was sure pie was just controlling the narrative with his high activity while I was sleeping through most of the day like usual.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Cerulean
Too Much Information. Scum knows everyone's alignment, so if a player has an unreasonable degree of confidence in someone's role, it might be a sign that they're scum who already knows that what they're saying is true for sure. It's why I nudged you a bit for that early post.To me, it looks like Lunatic is so confident in Moozer being Town- without a whole lot of basis- that he's calling Pie and Whiteflame as "scum for being wrong," in a way. Do you think that's too uncharitable of an interpretation?
Keep in mind, I literally just played a game of mafia with moozer and I think it was moozers only like second game as mafia. He made a lot of mistakes and was the top scum read virtually the whole game. It was a miracle he survived until the end. I personally didn't feel like he handled pressure too well. His responses and answers in this game feel drastically different, and everything adds up much better. He's been active and not avoidant unlike the other game. I have been mostly mobile posting, so I haven't made all of this as clear as I am now, but this all factors into why I town read moozer and why it feels like pie is stretching a bit with the logic to lynch him. Pie was the mod of the last game and witnessed all of this and I feel like should also know this is a very different moozer from last game.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ILikePie5
How do you know it’s a mislynch? I have yet to hear why Moozer is town besides “muh vibes.”
Because I just played mafia with moozer and this doesn't feel like his scum reaction. He was much more prone to mistake in that game, and it was miracle he survived as long as he did. His reactions and responses feel very genuine here in comparison, and the biggest argument against him is that his role justification is a stretch, which I have already stated mine is too. And I thought a lot of the role links in indian politicians were stretches too. Without being privy to context sometimes it's hard to see the role link the mod had in mind. Hell sometimes as mod, I have an idea for role and I want to put that role in so badly that I will purposely stretch a justification for a character to make it work, even though there are way better roles than can fit it. Moozer's answers and information about his role all sounds completely legit to me. I don't know he is town, I just know the reasons he is being pushed aren't good. I'd be more okay with the push if their were behavioral reasons going with the analysis.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Cerulean
Sigh.Can someone sanity check me on if it looks like Lunatic is TMIing Moozer in this post? Seems very certain to the degree of "Moozer is so town that Pie and Whiteflame are scummy for pushing there specifically." That's removing a bit of the nuance, I know, but it sounds like the general point being conveyed.
Pie has a history of righteous indignation, and frequently leads mislynches. He is very aggressive as a scum player (he is as town too) but I feel like his logic will be a little looser to achieve his objectives as scum. Pie has a history of leading the mislynch and trying to pass off the scummy behavior as part of the person who was mislynched fault, or the mods fault, or virtually anyone but his fault. Anyways he's not always wrong, but the looser the logic, and the heavier the push, it feels more like his scum games to me. I am not picking up the same warning signs about moozer as he is, and for me that is screaming at me that this is scum pie pushing a mislynch.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Casey_Risk
Lynch me then idgaf I barely have time to play right now anyway
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@whiteflame
Kind of drunk last thing I remember was pressuring pie and now I’m seeing votes in me so without having caught up I’m assuming he just flipped the script somehow and argued that I’m scum and without me being here you all just bandwagoned him or something
Created:
Posted in:
How the hell did I become the wagon!? And no fuck all of you, lynch me. I
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Cerulean
Or I forgot Owen because he hasn’t posted anything lol
Created:
Posted in:
vtl pie
Pie is getting a bit too loose with his logic for a mislynch for my liking. I am at dinner so I can post more in depth later on
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ILikePie5
I don’t see the connection between no one dying and knowing the total deaths on all the flights. It’s also odd that you can’t share it because it’s not all that helpful to town. Scum can get fake claims and therefore, the numbers will probably never add up, and you wouldn’t know who is lying about their number
Oh come on you can’t judge someone as scum because they have a role that doesn’t “help town”. We have a miller claim as well as Ana claimed a scum role..
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@whiteflame
I get that Pie and I are on the same wavelength (which is generally rare - it didn’t even typify our game as scum together), but is your basis for sussing me really that I tend to be better at catching scum slips?
No, and that doesn't really apply here because I think we can both agree that there wasn't really a "slip" here. It's more that you aren't buying a justification. I was more surprised by your eagerness to assume he was scum is all.
I appreciate the sentiment, but two claims on the table, I’m working with what I have. Not finding a scum slip isn’t scummy.
Not really my point, its more that you seem to be treating what you feel is a scummy role claim the same way you tend to treat a scum slip you found as town (like what you did with moozer last game, and supa the game prior, both of which DID make scum slips, and were actually scum). You seem just as aggressive with this as though it was a scum slip or something.
Pointing out a clear deviation from an existing claim and my own isn’t scummy. As for not being passive, in a game where posting a lot more is a mechanic, yes, you can bet I’m going to engage more and push more people to give their thoughts. I said that much up front.
I don't know if passive is really the word I am looking for, though I guess to some extent it works. The reason it stood out to me really is that it felt more "lazy, oppertunistic", like you are perfectly okay with lynching him whereas I feel like town whiteflame would have tried to see more both sides of moozer here and weigh him as being town equally. Your town playstyle is more "lawyer" like where I feel like you have to have a pretty good reason to want to lynch someone before caving to it.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@iamanabanana
I don't really have any reads at this time, I know that isn't super helpful. Mafia is still a bit confusing to me, and I don't really know how you are all reading each other so easily. It might be that I am just not used to this crowd, but I don't really see anything that stands out.
My only advice for scum hunting would be just go with your gut. If something feels weird for someone to say, point it out and say why it felt weird. We're basically roleplaying cops here. On day phase 1 without a lot to go off of, it's okay to make a bigger deal out of things then seems rational. You will learn people's metas and can associate differently from them. For example: Pie loves policy lynching millers. It's a meta that I don't think everyone agrees with, but him saying it is a null tell since it's something he would do regardless of affiliation.
Or Joebob (who isn't in this claim) claiming early, and easily, or not contributing much isn't a scum tell as its a common behavior with him. Unfortunately he still gets mislynched constantly for it, as you saw in the last game. Joebob is probably one of the most mislynched players in mafia period.
Or Greyparrot, insta claiming, isn't a scum tell and something he would do regardless of affiliation. You just have to learn the group we play with and see their little niche things they do over time. Until then just nit pick everything and go with your gut and what feels right.
What is a miller and why is earth being pressured for being one?
He isn't being pressured, Pie just wants to lynch him if there are no alternatives. I am ignoring the policy lynch millers idea and I think for the most part everyone else is too. It's a pie thing. Anyways millers appear guilty to cop results, and are designed as a negative utility role for town.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@whiteflame
I don’t really get this response. It’s not just that it’s a loose justification (though I’d say my point was that Strengthener isn’t what follows from reading said justification, not just that it’s “loose”), it’s that several things stand out about the claim. He was pushed to claim early due to inactivity and the role he claimed is a common one I’ve seen (and my scum partner has used) to avoid getting CC’d. If we’re talking looseness, Earth’s justification is far more direct, as is mine. I can only base my read on him off of what information I have. If other people have claims this loose, I’m good with taking a step back and reconsidering my read.
If that is your read that is your read, my goal isn't to change your mind on it, more to determine if it's genuine or opportunistic seeming. It just felt a bit out of character to me personally, but I could be mis-reading the situation. To be fair looseness and directness of role pm's are kind of arbitrary. I thought a lot of them in the indian politicians games didn't really make a TON of sense where others thought they did. So maybe unfamiliarity with the topic's could be me just not understanding the link between justification and role as well. Who do you think moozers partner would be if scum? I don't see him coming up with strengthener by himself.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Casey_Risk
In all seriousness, I will say that Pie hard driving his choice for a lynch feels like business as usual for him, though you are right that Whiteflame was quick to also sus Moozer. I don't think he'd likely do that if Pie was his partner, however. WF seems like the type to be averse to early, quick buddying like that imo.
yeah seems a bit aggressive-oppertunistic for him as town imo
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Casey_Risk
actually probably not as much lately, because after a while people expected that of me
Created:
Posted in:
I feel mafia is largely controlling the activity and over all narrative so far. My fault for my inactivity thus far, not blaming anyone.
Created: