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I buy all the claims right now. Earth doesn't strike me as a risky move maker as scum, I don't think he claims something ballsy like miller. Thats more of a wylted or a lunatic move IMO. I am almost willing to town confirm him for that. Moozer I buy as well, not as strongly convinced he is town, but also a bit of mod psyche here, I don't know how likely it is to score scum twice in a row, plus I didn't notice any blaring mistakes. Moozer kind of made mistakes claiming when I was scum with him, though he did have ample time to prepare. I also kind of town read him because I am sensing that he is the intended mislynch for today.
Unfortunately I am scum reading pie and whiteflame a bit for their over eagerness to lynch moozer. Moozer feels like an easy mislynch target today.
Town pile:
Earth - Miller claim doesn't fit his mafia MO
Moozer- Seems like intended mislynch target for dp1
slight town, mostly null:
Cerulean- Seems to be advising caution agaisnt over-eagerness and looking too much into things. Matching her town behavior from villainous villains so far.
Casey- Town reading him mostly because his thoughts on earth align with mine, though I might backtrack this read depending on how easily he lets pie bully him out of it. If he is scum he doesn't wanna take a hardline stance on anything like that unless earth of course is his scum partner.
Null:
Banana- Hasn't really said much of anything, other than indicating she has a scum role
Scum:
Pie- Hard driving what I feel will be a mislynch
Whiteflame- Not nearly as passive as he usually feels to me, I feel like hes making a mountain out of a molehill with the moozer claim. It piggy backing off of pie who feels scummy to me, makes me less sure about him. Usually whiteflame is much better at catchign scum slips, this doesn't feel like a slip though on moozer part. I just don't like the read, and it doesn't feel like town whiteflame to me.
I am going to advocate a whiteflame lynch over pie. Pie I can see behaving this way as town or scum, tbh, Whiteflame feels a bit more off to me.
VTL whiteflame
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@whiteflame
The Strengthener itself isn't obvious from the justification. Pulling through a difficult circumstance doesn't scream "Strengthener" to me, even if the information he's provided holds up to what he's saying. Definitely ringing some alarm bells.
I mean loose justification is good enough for me, my role pm justification is loose as well so I am not going to tunnel that.
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@ILikePie5
I don’t like the justification. Could also be a justification for a strongman, but I digress. I still scumread Moozer. I’m interested to here what everyone else thinks
Prima facie, it sounds legit to me.
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@Cerulean
I would (at least for now) defer to you all on that front, since presumably you would have a better instinct on how a theme split is going to come to play with flavor text like this. There's a bit of a scale to the soft claims here- even claiming a specific incident could be enough to clue Mafia into what a person's role is, right? Do you have an idea in mind on how far we should go with it?
It depends on how vague or complex the theme split is. With austin im guessing its more of a complex one. I wouldn't even try guessing at what it is until we have a couple of flips.
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@Cerulean
How confident are/were you in this, by the way? It made me squint a bit because it looks too sure, too fast.
I know this wasn't directed at me, but i'd give some town cred to a miller claim as well. As you can see with pie, pie loves to push lynches on millers. Scum have no incentive to claim miller when pie tends to be one of the more active influences in the game.
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4. There is at least one role in the game which may lead to false or missing role flips.
Huh looks like the OP does too
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My PM confirms to me that mafia has some sort of Role obscuring or changing ability. This could be a anything from a full on tailor to a janitor based on the wording. All I know is I won't be fully trusting death flips.
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GGs! The only thing I would kind of go easy on town for was the lack of theme research, as mafia I struggled with that too. For example your criticism of my claim all came from google research. If any of that is wrong I blame the internet and not being savvy enough with Indian politics to know the nuances and I’m guessing alot of that was the same for town. It’s a very niche theme and one that isn’t the most exciting imo to do research on.
That said I am very surprised moozer stayed alive as long as he did. Between whiteflame and banana I thought he was done for dp1. Banana had a strong start but seemed to stop trusting her reads halfway through the game and focus more on what other people thought of her. Whiteflame did really well as usual. Casey has a strong start but seemed to stop trusting himself as well later on. I don’t think town did the worst they definitely kept us on our toes, but yeah the role confirmation of myself was very interesting. I expected a lot of the logic I was using about role confirmation to be used against me but Owen dropped it pretty quick and everyone else kind of bought into it.
I’m glad we killed of Austin and Whiteflame when we did I have a feeling they would have started pushing me around dp3.
Good game all. Good job to moozer for keeping calm and surviving to the end when he was the top scum read for most of the game despite an early scum slip dp1. I had to buddy a little more than I normally like to this game. Banana called me out for that dp1 had me a bit nervous.
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I’m gonna sleep a couple more hours and re evaluate cuz there could be something I’m missing here. If the game ends before I wake up I’m sorry for not making a decision earlier but I’m way tired
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The fact that Casey hasn’t quick voted yet means that the scum partner is banana who probably hasn’t been online yet or she just doesn’t understand the math we are in right now. I think the game is solved, Owen/banana
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I think this means there is guaranteed scum between moozer and Owen, because if there was two scum they would have had plenty of time to quick hammer and win the game already. Unless they are noobs and don’t know of mafia hasn’t been online yet… but I mean many hours have passed and no quick hammer. I think this means Owen has to be scum, unless I am missing something about the lack of night kill, moozer has to be confirmed town otherwise he would have just won last night by literally killing anyone. There’s no point for the dog and pony show of letting the game continue.
Any problems with my logic you can think of here? Cuz to me it looks like Owen is guaranteed scum.
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Okay if banana is scum I think her partner has to be Casey because I don’t know if Owen knows enough about the game yet to come up with popular as a fake claim and we know mafia weren’t handed fake claims but given a chance to ask for them. Maybe I’m underestimating owen though. I know Casey is definitely experienced enough at this point though as he is one of the more promising new players so far.
The other side of the coin is that mafia both and two confirmsble style roles in Owen and Casey if they are the scum team which just doesn’t seem plausible to me.
I hate to say this but banana is the common demonator here because she is the only non confirmed role. And I am not saying scum doesn’t have at least one comfortable role, just that I doubt they have two.
So my scum team options have to be banana/ Casey or banana/owen
Again banana being the common demoninator.
I say we lynch banana and figure out the last scum next day phase. Before I cast my vote is there a flaw in my logic here?
I just can’t see TWO confirmable roles being scum
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@Moozer325
Hold up. You protected me? I seriously question your logic in forfeiting np2 over protecting Whiteflame. That said, I think this town confirms you moozer. I literally cannot think of a way it makes sense for there not to have been a night kill last night. If there are two scum, mafia would have won after this mislynch and a successful night kill. The only way it makes sense for the game to continue is if there is one scum which I highly doubt or moozer actually protected the night kill. Also makes sense why I’m still alive. I thought I was dead for sure coming into this phase.
So that means last two scum are between Owen, banana, and Casey. We have 2/3 chance of hitting scum today we can’t fvck this up.
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@Owen_T
I don't scum read Lunatic but are we 100% sure that messenger can't be a mafia role?
Role confirmation doesn’t mean affiliation confirmation. That said you can account for my night action literally every night. Earth confirming my visit also proves I can’t be behind the night kill or janitor that night. Also I was the only one not wanting to board the earth train.
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@Casey_Risk
Oh wait did you not receive a crystal ball?
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Actually makes no sense for mafia to have forfeited. If there was 2 scum they would have won by literally killing anyone right? So the only option is that there is one scum or a kill preventing role
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Anyone want to fess up to being bulletproof or having some kill preventing role!? If not then there is only one scum or mafia forfeited
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Literally every person here is in my scum pile only slight town cred to Casey because that just feels like a wierd role to give scum but it’s complete wifom.
Why wasn’t there a night kill? Did mafia forfeit it? I’m lost. Someone secretly bulletproof?
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Yeah I really don't feel good about the earth lynch
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I mean we have to lynch. I dont want to lynch the only protective role because that means there was a game with no protection. I hate this logic, but I think owen's role is the most useless to town, and like I outlined earlier I can see the ball thing activating and killing or roleblocking its holder or something like that. I just don't see what it does really to help town.
vtl owen
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3 hours left? damn this day phase went by too quick
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@Casey_Risk
That's interesting I suppose, but I'm not really sure that makes a lot of sense for the mafia tbh. What's the point of doing that instead of just targeting someone for the NK directly?
Mafia feels kind of under powered this game. Other than the janitor no one has really claimed to be roleblocked or anything wierd. Maybe it’s not a kill but in activation something bad happens or all townies who held it lose their vote or something. Idk spit balling. It is just a wierd role I’ve never seen before and doesn’t really serve a purpose.
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Yeah my POE has literally everyone in it, because literally everyone but bannana and moozer have confirmable roles. But banana is a town read behaviorally, and moozer is the only protection role. I would be town to maybe lynch owen or moozer IG. King maker seems a weird one to put on mafia. Sorcerer I can see having some mechanic where mafia can activate the ball and kill its holder though or something like that.
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@Earth
Moozer LITERALLY said he was 1x.
Right, I forgot
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It could be banana/moozer IG since neither are confirmed, but banana has been gunning for moozer since DP1 so I kind of doubt that. Especially a bus from a new player.
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Casey and myself are also role confirmed, forgot to mention. So mafia has to have at least one confirmable role player on their team. We are kind of at square one and need to be evaluating behavior in light of this.
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So we are in a conundrum. Owen is role confirmed. Earth is role confirmed. Moozer is the only claimed protective role, which doesn't make him confirmed, but makes it unlikely that he is lying since there has been no other claimed protective roles, and I believe whiteflame would have countered him if he was the protective role. Could be wrong. Banana literally cannot be confirmed since this is MYLO, unless for some reason her role doesn't have that modifier. Maybe we should verify that with pie first.
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Claiming now since I am the only unclaimed. I Pema Khandu, a Minister of Arunachal Predesh. I am a man of the people having represented the people's party of Arunachal, and am the messenger. I can send a message to a player each night. NP1 I targeted whiteflame, NP2 I targeted Earth. Him confirming my visit is good confirmation for him and puts him lower on my POE.
Full claims:
Moozer - Mansukh Mandaviya - 1X Doctor - NP1: used on Whiteflame
Casey - Narendra Modi - 1x Kingmaker - NP1: crowned Banana Queen
Banana - Shivraj Singh Chouchan - Popular Townie - NP1: N/A NP2: Passed Crystal Ball to CAsey
Earth - Bhupendrabhai Patel- Self Watcher- NP1: was not visited Np2: Visited by lunatic
Owen - Mamata Benergee- Enchantress - NP1: Passed Crystal Ball to Banana
Lunatic -Pema Khandu- Messenger- Np1: Messenged WF NP2: Messenged Earth
Character Claims:
Dead:
Austin - Yogi Adityanath - Ascetic
JoeBob - Amit Shah - Motion Detector - NP1: used on Moozer
Whiteflame - Minister- ???? (Janitored)
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looks like mafia had a janitor? Has anyone been roleblocked or anything? I am starting to suspect mafia might have only had like a janitor and a ninja or strongman something maybe to counter the motion detector or doctor. Seems like a pretty weak town power role pool so I’m guessing mafia don’t have anything crazy outside that janitor
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@iamanabanana
Did you receive the crystal ball?
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@Moozer325
Who did you protect and why? Why not whiteflame again?
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I am fine with anyone in the POE atm, Owen, earth, joebob are my top three. I am fine with joebob being the decision if thats what you feel is best. his behavior was pretty bad if town, and hes not contributing at all, or trying to scum hunt. I don't think joebob would behave like this as town, but maybe I am wrong.
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@whiteflame
I agree, the role itself isn't something he'd come up with. My other concern, as it has been for every game like this, is that we know scum had the opportunity to ask Pie about two roles. Picking one that a) is distinctly out of left field, one none of us has seen before, b) one with an obvious means of role confirmation, and c) claiming its usage on the person who is the Queen this DP doesn't jive with the reality of what scum have at their disposal. I really don't like his claim at all, but unless his goal was to make himself stand out via a series of strange choices, I have a distinctly hard time seeing him as scum. I may be applying some WIFOM to this, but this series of decisions seems absolutely nonsensical if he's scum.
I agree with all of this. Owen from a WIFOM perspective seems town as hell. Then again the only thing haunting me about that is he kind of played the same way as scum confidently in villains mafia and was widely town read for wifom and similar reasons, so it' s something I'll have to consider.
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@Earth
Are you guys going to full claim?
I am not really sure that I need to honestly. Definitely willing to character claim if needed but yeah I have a very confirmable role. If whiteflame or the kingmaker want me to claim at any point I will.
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The one thing I’ll give Owen I don’t think he came up with this role by himself. It’s either real or he has an experienced partner who came up with it for him.
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I can't find anything on the enchantress role. Can yall post a link to what your finding?
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@Casey_Risk
its more that the direct reason isn't really stated
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you know what, I just read austins description and his link to his role, makes absolutely 0 sense to me. So I am gonna give you a bit of a pass on that front. Though I do agree withwhiteflame its weird that we have a bunch of self visiting roles.
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@Earth
How does that not just make him a regular watcher than if its a whole community, what in the description indicates it would be a self watcher?
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@whiteflame
A couple of your points I dis-agree with here, only minor ones.
1. If I was town doctor I would claim only 1x as well, in hopes that mafia might not see me as a threat in future day phases and decide not to kill me. Probably shouldn't be discussing this out loud, but if he is a doctor, I doubt he is actually 1x.
2. I do actually think you were the more widely town read player last day phase. Me, austin, banana were all publicly town reading you, so I actually give him some slight town cred for targeting you.
Also I never really understood the "mistake" he made and his excuse for it seemed genuine. That said, I don't think he is out of the POE yet either. main reason I think this is in Mahabaratta mafia I was a protective role that was not doctor. Savant fake claimed doctor after asking the mod if there was one in the game, and we ended up correctly lynching him for it. Pie doesn't tend to use stereo typical protective roles like "cop" or "doctor" in his games, he uses variant style roles. Actually I was the variant style protective role in his last two games. Brave townie, and Apportioner. There wasn't a doctor in either of these games. So I don't think he's out of hot water yet, if we end up with another protective role claim I think he will be a bit higher on my list for a scum read.
But I agree owen and earth should probably full claim. I am willing to character claim this day phase if needed too, since I know I am in the POE to virtually everyone but you.
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@whiteflame
So he either
1: guessed correctly
2: is mafia scout and saw him move
3: is mafia moozer and know he visited someone and used this to try and confirm him self
Either way it implicates him as scum so yeah I’m down if banana wants to lynch him
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