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@ILikePie5
Neither are 100% town. You and I both know that. Objectively it’s still better to increase our odds compared to today. You and I both know that.
Wylted is town. Mafia needed that evil mislynch yesterday, and wylted took no part in either wagon of you or him. If you are town, that should indicate wylted is pretty damn town lock here. Supa I am less sure of, but there isn't really a huge case to be made on him. Whiteflame's lynch indicates poly though in multiple ways. Mafia getting a free night kill doesn't help us unless you, me or drleb are killed, and there is no way mafia is stupid enough to make any of those kills. There is no reason to delay the game a phase. If we mislynch today we were just as likely to mislynch tomorrow.
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@ILikePie5
Objectively we should be No Lynching today period. There’s is absolutely no reason to not to increase our POE odds. I will not be joining any lynch whatsoever today. Tomorrow I can be convinced to lynch Poly(I still haven’t read arguments on him yet).
If anyone but wylted or supa dies tonight mafia is pretty retarded. We gain nothing by no lynching. We are just as likely to mislynch and end the game tomorrow as we are today. That said with the whiteflame kill I think there is a pretty high chance poly was scum.
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@Wylted
If you would like to do the honors that works too.
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@ILikePie5
Need one more for poly. Last chance to vindicate yourself pie. If poly flips scum and you weren't on the lynch your getting lynched tomorrow most likely.
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UVC
Poly- 3 /4- Lunatic, drleb, supadudz
Lunatic- 1 /4- poly
Vtnl- 1/ 4- pie
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@Polyglot
I feel like Town Lunatic would be less opposed to a VTNL or at least trying better to analyze everyone. That fact that he’s just going for me and trying to end the game quickly is kind of out of his meta as town.
Why would town luna want a vtnl? Pie said the same sh1t about me for my actions in dp1. I've always been an agrressive townie, so I don't know where you are getting this narrative from unless pie is in your DM's feeding you this BS via mafia PM. I can list 100 examples of how aggressive I am as town, going back to 3 years ago in dark crystal mafia. I went after pie HARD dp1 of your pokemon game, went after badger hard dp1 of roman battles. The only game of recent I think I was okay with a no lynch was D1 of full metal alchemist and that was because I was inactive the entire day phase and unable to catch up.
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@Polyglot
I gave my complete thoughts here to why you are scum. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6775/post-links/291661Now that fact that you are just going from a VTNL to voting me when pretty much everyone agrees that a VTNL will benefit the town kind of stands out.
Your argument was horrible lol. First of all I was getting told by pie all day that me defending evil indicates I was going to be scum because he was so sure evil would flip scum, and his example was that I defended you in fast food mafia when we were both scum. So damned if I do damned if I don't right? lol the fact that I hammered evil despite arguing with both whiteflame and pie for 5 pages why I thought evil was town should indicate if anything that I was town because I let my pride go so we wouldn't waste another day phase of WIFOM just to mislynch evil in dp2 anyway.
The other part of it was OMGUS, you were mad that I sussed you for posturing to hammer but it makes you look more suspicious that you didn't after I called you out for it, almost like you were worried about how you would look when evil flipped town. On the contrary you are actually proving more that YOU in fact had inside knowledge of evils flip.
Also, Whiteflame pretty much sussed everyone in his final posts. He sussed me for not voting, he sussed you and even himself for being adamant on your lynch choices, and he sussed Wylted for taking substantial time to vote. Basically the whole town. So for you to just pinpoint me from Whiteflame’s suspicions and not take Whiteflames post with a grain of salt seems scummy.
I am not talking about whiteflame's end post though again he did retract his statement in regards to my vote not counting, as disc vindicated me there by counting the vote. I am talking about the fact that he sussed you all game, and that you were the only lynch besides evil that he was willing to consider dp1. The fact that he died after that indicates you. The second thing that indicates you is as you just proved in this response, you thought I was indicated in whiteflames last post, which is why you started the day phase pushing me right away. You misunderstood whiteflames actual position and are trying to use it to mislynch me. Unfortunately for you, I think everyone here besides pie is probably not retarded enough to buy that logic.
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@Polyglot
You won’t give a fuh when I flip town cause that’s an automatic win for you, the mafia.
If that's what you think, you should make a better case for it. You should start with how whiteflames kill doesn't indicate you. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6775-vanilla-mafia-dp-2?page=3&post_number=51
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UVC
Poly- 2 /4- Lunatic, drleb
Lunatic- 1 /4- poly
Vtnl- 1/ 4- pie
Lunatic- 1 /4- poly
Vtnl- 1/ 4- pie
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@Polyglot
My bets on Lunatic and Supadudz is scum team.
No response to my in depth analysis about how the night kill indicates you are scum? Kind of lazy mate. Gonna have to do better thanthat if you don't want to be lynched.
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@Vader
I still a VTNL is the best decision
Why? You or wylted will be killed because there is little to no reason to scum read the two of you. We literally gain nothing but losing another townie. The only risk is ending the game, and who really cares. We will be at the same place tomorrow.
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@Wylted
@drlebronski
Fvck a no lynch. Let's lynch poly. If we lose than who gives a fuh, nothing ventured nothing gained. If he is scum we secure ourselves another mislynch attempt for late game.
Think about it what does a no lynch accomplish? Wylted or supadudz will likely die. There are no power roles, so there is no reason that one of the two most town confirmed players won't just die here.
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Let's do it. Let's lynch poly. I am pretty confident he is scum here, his play feels pretty familiar to his play in fast food when he was scum with me. I'd bet he is scum here.
VTL poly.
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@Vader
Again. I know, hence why you are not a top scum read, and Pie looks scummier. I'm just saying those continuous 5 pages do not help. It detracts from town by causing cluttered post, which is my only knock.
If you had helped me lynch pie dp1 when we had him at l-1 that probably would have solved the issue lol. Even if he was town it was a net gain. It's not like we lost much from losing evil, but it should have been pretty obvious he was town since his behavior replicated his behavior almost to a tee in the last 4 games. I had even cited multiple examples of him saying virtually the same stuff. Pie was more of a wildcard, there wasa higher chance he was scum and benefit to lynching him if he was town, since he uses retarded arguments to policy lynch people like evil who are clearly town. And he wants to always have the last word so he will argue with me for a million pages like he did in that last game. All this was why we should have lynched pie when we could have afforded the mislynch. Now I am not as sure he is scum, but we will still run into the same issue of him derailing the game.
Hindsight is 20/20 though isn't it?
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SO far it's only supadudz here who agrees that poly is sus, but honestly if enough people here feel suspicious of poly I think we should pull the trigger and lynch him today instead of no lynch. If we are wrong, sure the game ends immediately. If we are right however, we secure ourselves an extra mislynch late game. If the game ends we are just saving ourselves from the misery of constant WIFOMing anyway. I don't get the feel that many of you are that interested in the game due to it's lack of theme, and the second me or pie dies this game's activity will go down the toilet allowing mafia to control the narrative anyway. So if enough people agree that poly is scum here we should just lynch him. If he's town and we lose I am not really all that hurt about it. But I think poly's behavior is suspicious enough, combined with whiteflame's night kill to indicate that poly is likely scum. Hell I'd even put money where my mouth was, I'd say there is such a strong chance poly is scum here I would bet 100 bucks on it.
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@Vader
The last second hammer doesn't helpI voted drunk as hell on my PC so I can't remember if I was L-1 or not
Dude at least I participated greatly in discussion about evil. I voted him begrudgingly to save the day phase from a no lynch. We would still be bantering about whether evil is scum over retarded logic this day phase if I hadn't hammered. That hammer was objectively good and I'll defend it to the death in the endgame lol.
You on the other hand voted evil without much input at all. Not that I neccesarily suspect you for it, just calling out the hypocrite call out here,
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There are no roles in this game, so night kill analysis should actually be pretty helpful here since we know scum wasn't looking for power roles.
I can deduce that there is a world where pie is town despite his extremely anti-town behavior. I don't think pie would want to leave me alive after how hard I was going at him last day phase unless he really thought he could just be more convincing, and then it is kind of a gamble. This is WIFOM and doesn't completely discount pie, but it's rather risky for pie to want to take a 1 v 1 with me especially if he was mafia and knew that evil would flip town, arguing with me for pages with possibly the dumbest argument I've ever seen used in the history of mafia sounds more like pie doubling down to save his ego, which we all know is the size of texas and california combined. So there is a decent enough chance pie could look good because of the whiteflame lynch. Also I don't see pie killing whiteflame, especially with how whiteflame was basically sucking him off at the end of the day phase last night phase.
So there was 2 maybe three motives for the whiteflame kill.
1. Whiteflame's reads implicated scum. Keep in mind whiteflame wasn't really sussing me until he thought I had stalled out the lynch and he retracted his statement upon finding out that disc allowed the lynch to go through. So who were whiteflames biggest reads after evil? Poly was one. When I was discussing with him that I was unwilling to lynch evil he tried to get me on board with a poly lynch since it was a read I had shared from earlier in the day phase when it looked like poly was posturing to hammer but being hesitant because he thought it would look bad. I didn't agree to it at the time because I was a bit suspicious of whiteflame for being on board the retarded evil lynch.
Also wouldn't be surprised if it was Poly, given his hesitancy to hop on the vote and his general oscillating on it. 193
I’m willing to consider a Poly lynch, though behaviorally, I find far less reason to sus him than I do Evil. 247
Dr leb being a massive hypocrite: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6759-vanilla-mafia-dp-1?page=10&post_number=245
2. The other option with the whiteflame lynch is that scum was stupid enough to place a lot of stock in whiteflame's end of day suspcions of me which were literally based around me supposdely trying to delay the lynch, even though as I correctly pointed out, we shouldn't make those decisions for the mod unless you are setting up an excuse for the lynch not to go through. Luckily disc vindicated me here. Based on the way poly is gunning for me now this is still a possibility, that he is setting me up for a mislynch based on whiteflames last words.
Either way both of these points indicate that poly is likely scum.
His partner is probably drlebronski, because note that drlebronski was the first to switch onto the pie wagon after he said that I pointed out how evils behaviors were the same, and now is boarding my lynch, which makes him not only a hypocrite, but shows he is willing to really onboard any dumb lynch here. That's not a townie who cares about hunting scum. He also voted for evil near the end without offering a reason which contradicted what he said earlier.
Supadudz last minute vote doesn't really look good for him either but I don't really feel as strongly that he is scum still. Wylted is probably my only real town read for not participating in the evil lynch, and I think it is likely that both scum were on that lynch given how late it went through, but I suppose it is possible only one was.
In conclusion we should be lynching one of poly or drlebronski next day phase.
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@drlebronski
Do not be a follower. I fought evil's lynch all fvcking day phase yesaterday you nitwit.
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@ILikePie5
Here’s the biggest thing about Lunatic from last DP:Before Hammer: “If you are sold on the evil lynch you have to bank on getting another two votes. It's possible but not guaranteed. I will fight this lynch to the end because I think it's a mislynch, and I think pie is scum. If you think there is any merit to my read on pie or poly, please let us work together and obtain a lynch. If not I am also okay with a no lynch as an alternative to an evil lynch. If evil gets lynched its not the end of the world as long as people are willing to give pie's motives a serious reading into for next day phase. Poly's as well. I just imagine he is waiting around for a good moment to hammer, as he seems to appear when vote counts are posted.”After Hammer Post 309: “Of course I was, Evil isn't the lynch I wanted, but I don't want a no lynch either after all of that.”
I mean that's a horrible argument that I am scum, because I changed my mind about being okay with the no lynch. It also contradicts your point that I am scum if evil was scum. You are literally setting this up in a way that I end up guilty no matter what lol.
Lunatic never votes for people he town reads. I specifically remember him saying he’d rather No Lynch then vote for a town read when I once asked him to vote to avoid a No Lynch (I’ll look for the game). So what changed here? Will Lunatic admit to sheer posturing?
This is not true, and you never qoute me directly. I would like to see some qoutes. I am always pro lynch instead of no lynching dp1.
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@Polyglot
Why would hearing pie's case make any difference lol it will only feed your confirmation bias. Pie is also pretty god damn horrible at behavioral hunting, its why he led a lynch on evil for some of the most retarded reasons I have ever seen. Just buddy your scum mate again so we can lynch you next day phase.
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@ILikePie5
I’m not gonna respond to you. I suggest you direct your arguments to everyone else
That's fine, as long as you know you are a fvcking retard.
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@ILikePie5
No Lynch here to help with your POE. I will post an argument against Lunatic here in a bit.
So you are still going to lead a lynch on me even after all that garbage of "If evil flips scum lunatic is scum" lol. You were just gonna try and lynch me other way. This proves your motivations are likely just manufactured. You have no real intention of solving anything here if that is the direction you are going. So I guess I'll be the asshole and state the obvious. Pie your logic that evil's play was "vastly different" because of the pronoun "We (Town)" is possibly the dumbest reason I have ever seen someone mislynched over. You sir are an absolute fvcking retard.
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I'll be on tomorrow evening, going to take a nap for now. My first thought was probably that there are 2 scum on pies wagon, but with whiteflame dying I actually think poly could be scum here. I believe that was one of whiteflames top scum targets last day phase after evil, also with the way poly is going after me here maybe looks like he was trying to set me up for the mislynch with the whiteflame kill. I'm still guessing at least one person on the evil wagon was scum though.
I'll sleep on it and decide who I think the scum team is when I get on tomorrow. For now I need to catch up on sleep
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@whiteflame
If that was really the case, then the fact that you conveniently hopped onto the lynch 10 minutes after the DP should have ended is an odd choice. You knew that if you didn't post anything and just let the DP end with a NL, that would have led to us sussing you. This seems like an awfully convenient way to have your cake and eat it, too.
I am gave no thought to whether you were "Sussing" me or not. Especially you whiteflame, who I believe is leading a mislynch. You assume my intentions were to save face, shouldn't I have just let it end in a no lynch then since I am proposing evil is likely town? I still think he is, but in the event I am wrong I hammer him so the day phase is not a waste. You can doubt my intentions, I really could give a fvck. We can debate it for twenty pages if you want, it's all going to be WIFOM either way. I could give a sh1t what you believe about my intentions with voting evil.
Yes, we recognized that you posted late and, in my words, I'm "pretty sure Disc won't count it at this point." That doesn't speak to my confidence, but it does speak to my disappointment. No, we are not actively encouraging the mod not to count the vote. That's an especially absurd statement to make about my motives when, in this very DP, you said that I was dedicated to this lynch. And now, because I mention my frustration with the situation, what I've done all DP long suddenly ceases to matter? For that matter, how am I "encouraging the mod" to do anything? I'll straight up say it now: I hope Disc counts your vote, but I don't think he will. The fact that you're making this kind of about-face on both my and Pie's motives is really not helping your case, dude.
Dude stop threatening me with"How I look". I am town, my goal is to hunt and lynch scum, posturing how I look isn't threatening to me. If you think I scum try to lead my lynch stop threatening me about it. You aren't going to convince me what my own motives are when I know what I did and why I did it. Fuck off with that. But my point stands, it mmakes absolutely no sense for you to encourage disc to not count the vote by publicly theorizing that he won't unless you only want to use a no lynch against me for arguments sake in which you care more about how you can lead another mislynch off of evil's mislynch, assuming he flips town. Your antics make no sense here if you are town.
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@whiteflame
Considering that you waited as long as you did to hop on this lynch, it’s clear that between you and Pie, only you were actively trying to obstruct it.
Of course I was, Evil isn't the lynch I wanted, but I don't want a no lynch either after all of that.
You clearly had your reasons, but the last minute “sigh…” vote taking place 10 minutes after the DP should have ended certainly doesn’t look good on you.
As opposed to letting it end in a no lynch?
Also, the logic here is bonkers. Pie’s pointing out the obvious somehow indicates that he was seeking a NL despite actively rallying more votes up to the very end of the DP? I honestly don’t know who you expect to buy that logic. Wasn’t your whole point that he was actively pushing a mislynch?
My point is that you guys are doubting the lynch will go through publicly as if you are trying to encourage the mod not to count the vote. Why do that if you are confident in your decision? You don't know how the mod mods. I have seen mods count last minute votes as long as they are posted before the mod is on to post the final vote count. So why assume prima facia that it isn't counting unless you are encouraging the mod to go that route?
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@ILikePie5
if you didnt say anything he may have allowed it. Seems like you don't trust your own lynch since you are hoping disc will call a no lynch
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@ILikePie5
I expect an apology when I flip town.
Hell no. I'll apologize when you stop text chaining without responding to anything I say lol. If you are town this is good for town still.
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@ILikePie5
GP is a different situation because he just claims his role and isn’t a noob like Evil. And GP at least is interested in the game and posts often.I’d be fine with black listing Evil if he doesn’t step up his game.
GP is not different. We had to adapt the way we play and read greyparrot. What makes you think the next time GP is a bomb he isn't just gonna claim popular townie again? Do you think him blowing up a townie and getting lectured in the endgame by his peers made him care? He is gonna do what he does. Always has. We can keep punishing ourselves by making the same mistakes, or we can adapt to the player instead of paint their motives with a broad stroke and mislynch everytime.
And that’s going to backfire on you one day. You scum hunt by finding deviations in behavior - at least this early in the game. Noob town reads are just as likely to cover for noob scum reads. You can let that go every game or find the deviations and lynch him for not conforming to his town game.
There are no deviations here though. The thing you highlighted isn't a deviation lol. We have seen more similarities to his town play here then any differences.
He keeps getting lynched he’s gotta change something. I get the vibe that English isn’t his first language either which could be why he’s not as interested either. Either way simply dismissing him as noob town without even considering any deviations lacks merit
That worked great for greyparrot, skittlez, croc, and bear
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@ILikePie5
Again it’s obvious I misread what you said. Believe it or not, I don’t read what you say seriously half the time because it’s not going to change my mind.
First of all I know you don't read what I say. You are proving what I was saying at the start of the day phase right. That's why you respond with the one liners so often because it gives you the appearance of having the last word, even though you didn't touch a thing I said lol. But specifically it's scummy in this situation because your story is changing. You try to downplay that you were suggesting I was scum, then you try to make it seem like you mis spoke.
Every small detail matters. Your literally does nothing to identify if Evil will ever be scum. He could just keep OMGUS and bam he’s town on your list. Having the same behavior as town last game doesn’t remove him from the scum list - you and I both know that. It’s the deviations that matter.
Why don't the similarities matter? The deviation you pointed out is hardly a deviation lol.
This is just false. Prove he’s use (town) anywhere after We or Us before this game.
And if he flips town what did we learn? That your "deviation" wasn't actually a deviation and he just did the same shit he always does as town? Cool, glad we are down a number and no further towards catching scum.
I literally am not. I’ve already agreed I was voting for you cause of OMGUS which is what I told Wylted. But I was also voting for you cause you’re simply an asshole who decided they were gonna tunnel me for absolutely no reason today. I didn’t say that say that explicitly but i conveyed it when I told everyone to pick a side. I got off the lynch because I am scum hunting. Your vote hasn’t changed once. You were voting me cause you don’t like me. You’re still voting me cause you don’t like me. And when I flip town I’ll be laughing at you for tunneling me the entire DP and not doing anything constructive.
Lol I like you, so you can drop that part. I talk to you normally on discord out side the game do you not? I just know that you love to argue for the sake of arguing, and I am getting tired of letting it control the narrative that you are actually winning an argument because you had the last word. If that is going to be your strategy, I am going to make it back fire on you for the times you are town until you either stop the behavior entirely, or until I have a role that allows me to kill you for town's benefit. What happens in mafia stays in mafia, but I am going to try and correct a repeat bad behavior if this is going to continue in literally every game we play. I am not going anywhere, and niether are you. If we are the two loudest in the room and it works against town, then we need to start correcting that behavior.
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@ILikePie5
If Evil’s not gonna take the effort to do anything and even if you believe he’s town here, sooner or later you’re going to be wrong. If he’s not going to change how he plays after being mislynched 3 times then, how is it our fault that he keeps getting mislynched.
That kind of backward thinking hurts town. I tried the same shit with greyparrot and it never accomplished anything. If it didn't work the last 3 times, why is that gonna change the 4th time we lynch him? A better alternative to the policy lynch you suggest is to not allow people like that to play. I'd rather just identify the town similarities and save an obvious mislynch for one that is less obvious.
People like Evil who don’t learn from their mistakes are screwing others over in the process. And it’s also a pet peeve of mine.
Lynching them isn't going to change that apparently. We've tried 3 times to no avail. It definitely benefits mafia though.
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@ILikePie5
It just proves my point that I mistyped earlier. Even in that post I was talking about Fast Food context meaning both as scum.
That was in direct response to me pointing out that the game was different, and you didn't point out right at all that you had made a mistake, instead you tried to downplay the impact of what you had said by saying "I never said it makes you 100% town". So this indicates that you are changing the story later because you realized that argument didn't hold water...
Then what’s the behavioral mechanism to find out if he’s scum then. Unless you present a different option we have to go with what we have. Many times the data is low what it’s all we got in a situation. Error is high but when is it not in behavioral situations?
I don't know what his scum tell is, we likely haven't seen it because he's been town in every game so far. We have plenty of evidence to support his behavior is similar to games he's played as town, and not much to show that it's different. Logically, he is more likely just town again. What do we learn from his lynch? That pointing out obvious subtext isn't a scum tell? You are the only one that has a problem with that. No one else learns anything from this.
The use of we(town) diverges. And the OMGUS is a null tell. The data you mentioned is a divergence and a null tell. Where’s the town aspects.
It's not a divergence, it's a simple added clarification to a behavior he has used AS TOWN. A behavior you admitted was a null tell.
I didn’t say that explicitly but I pointed out why you were being an asshole for immediately tunneling me.
But that wasn't reportedly the reason you were voting me. You told wylted it was because of OMGUS. Why are you changing the story?
Ya I did but you were being an asshole. Is that reason to lynch you though lol
But it was OMGUS remember?
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@whiteflame
I’m not saying that it’s impossible for him to be town. I’m saying that he’s far more self-conscious this game about his strategies. It’s not just about a single word usage, though I’m starting to notice that Pie’s point feeds into mine. I don’t see this as a purely noob move. I see this as a substantial show of self-consciousness that I haven’t seen before, as though he’s suddenly more aware of how others perceive his behaviors. Maybe that’s just growth on his part, but if it is, then it didn’t last much beyond that point. The self-consciousness suddenly disappeared when it was pointed out and he reverted back to his old behaviors.
I don't notice that sudden change. I also don't see a reason why he would give up so easily when he is apparently more attuned emotionally as scum before. Why not keep that up now when he has someone proposing he is town? His last post was basically him giving up, as scum this would be his best oppertunity to capitilize on the advantage and post more towards getting someone else lynched. He is wasting that oppertunity if he is scum.
The problem with this lynch is that I don't think it gives us a lot of value. We lynch him and he's innocent it's just one more evil mislynch that can be blamed on his lack of skills in defending his actions again. We don't have a lot to point in the way of him actually being scum, and we don't learn more than we already know now about his wagon. I am still gonna suspect pie and poly and we will be at square 1. There's a lot more value lynching pie here, because if you decide he is a good lynch later on, it's goingto be objectively hard to lynch him if you or I are dead for example. We are the only ones active enough to accomplish his lynch, he can control the narrative with the rest of town. Wyted's an independent enough thinker to go against pie, but probably wouldn't have the pull to get noob town there based on activity. Pie's voting behavior was very scummy, and flip flopped very fast over very little. Me and him will distract the game pretty big if we are still going at it for the next few phases, so we still always have that added benefit of helping the game even if it is a mislynch. I feel like we gain no matter what by lynching pie, and don't really learn much from evil flipping town.
I’m sure that you’ll point to my previous statements regarding Wylted and his focus on self-consciousness from Poly in the previous game, but I’d say that this is different.
I wouldn't have pointed that out. But if you are noticing your own similarities to wylted's own bad lynching habit from the last game, I suppose that is a start in the right direction.
Maybe I’m wrong, but it’s one of the few instances where I’ve felt strongly enough about what I’m seeing to start and push a lynch, and I still feel strongly about it.
Well if evil is lynched, and you are right, I'll be happy to be proven wrong. I'll admit happily to being a jackass in that case. I just feel like we are repeating the same mistake with him that we have in the past 3 games and I fear we are learning slowly. Maybe I am wrong though.
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@ILikePie5
I didn’t see it? You’ve been responding to me 5 times in 5 minutes lol. And it should’ve been clear after I brought up the Fast Food case.
Explain your response to me in post 233 then.
It’s a statistically significant deviation from the data we have. It’s a stats thing. I’m a Finance Major.
If you are a stats guy then you understand the general principal of stats being meaningless unless you have a large pool of context to judge from. Evil has existed in no more than 3 games and has posted minimally in all of them. Meaning he's likely to have a first time for a lot of things.
He didn’t need to use it though is my point and previous data shows he hasn’t used it. The deviation in the data has to have a reason. You claim that it was due to chance, I claim it’s something noob town would do.
Your stats are also ignoring the data you don't want to look at in exchange for the ones you do want to look at. Your only argument is that he did one minor thing new (including verbiage of obvious subtext), when in the past I have proven that he uses the verbiage of "We" as town, uses omgus logic as he did with disc in pokemon, and has been consistently mislynched in every game he's in. There's more data indicating he is more likely to flip town here, but you ignore that in favor of a minor data point that allows you to justify lynhing him...
I was talking about the OMGUS but go on. Note I used practically not always.
You are constantly barely equivilating any read on him as barely more than a null read lol.
I voted for you because you were being an asshole as well. Obviously voting you on OMGUS wouldn’t lead anywhere lol. I unvoted you because I was actually scum hunting which I was taught to do while you just sat there. I never said I thought you were scum this whole time - another strawman. All I said was you would be a good target if Evil flips scum. You’ve been tunneling me this entire day.
I mean you weren't sayig the vote was because I was an asshole though originally. You were trying to justify it to wylted as an OMGUS vote. You are changing the story now because you are being called out on it.
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@ILikePie5
So you wrote in Vermin Supreme? Nice.
I wrote in hitler
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@whiteflame
Considering that all of the specific challenges you’ve given to my reasoning have been points I’ve already explicitly agreed with, you’ll have to forgive me for seeing them as misrepresenting issues with my actual reasons for sussing Evil. It would be one thing if you were directly pointing to those reasons and challenging them or explaining how they’re really just noob/anti-town, but I’m seeing you dance around my actual reasoning and challenging points other people have made against Evil. I guess we won’t see eye to eye on that, but it’s frustrating to me that I have to keep reiterating that I agree with you every time you challenge some portion of my reasoning that I’ve explicitly said made me townread him initially.
I don't see how you can agree with me. Let's reduce my whole argument to "Evil does things that are generally anti town and does a horrible job at convincing others he's town" for the sake of simplicity. It seems you agree with that statement, but have a hard time coming up with seeing the conclusion that him doing anti town things can mean he is town.
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@whiteflame
Well, I don’t think Luna has proven that Evil acts like this in other games. He’s shown that the OMGUS, specifically, is characteristic for him. He hasn’t shown that the subsequent behavior of hopping off the lynch and recharacterizing it to make it seem like it wasn’t an OMGUS is anything like what he’s done before.
It's the same point I am making with pie; He is new so there is a first for a few things for him to still be made. Just because it's his first time showing certain behaviors doesn't make them less of null tells. We have mislynched evil in every game we have played with him. Insanity is making the same mistakes over and over again while expecting a different outcome. It's true that town seems to misunderstand his playstyle objectively at thsi pont. We can punishing the town team as a whole because of this misunderstanding, or we can learn and grow from it.
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@ILikePie5
So what’s your excuse for voting the mental patient over Trump?
I didn't vote for Biden or Trump lol. You kind of just assumed I did because I called out that you defend Trump, which you do.
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@ILikePie5
You’re OMGUS and Evil’s OMGUS are two different scenarios and you know it. And I clearly meant if Evil flips scum you should be sussed. I can already feel you going on about how I scum slipped by saying that even though I’ve had to type town 30 times just to get rid of your strawman and make my point
Evil's "omgus" was never a reason you voted for him, at least one that you stated. He had already omgus'ed whiteflame before your initial town read on him. Btw no, it wasn't clear that you mean if he flipped scum. Why didn't you just say that the first time I called you out for that read? You had like two back and forths with me without clarifying that part. You only clarify it now that I've highlighted it for others, why is that?
It’s not a “minor” reason lol. It’s a statistically significant deviation
Wait what do you mean "statistically"? lol wtf
from his original play and demonstrates self consciousness which a noob mafia would definitely display.
Because he included the obvious subtext of town? How is stating the obvious more scummy than having the obvious inferred?
Every tell a noob town has is practically the same as noob mafia.
You are digging your argument into a deeper and deeper hole. You are proving why this is a null tell.
It’s hard to differentiate the two. But let’s look at you. You’ve been tunneling me this entire game. No scum-hunting at all. Saying I’m “aggressive” makes me scum when I’m just as aggressive as town.
I've said a lot more than just "your aggressive" lol. I think you are aggressive for show, though is what I am trying to say. You voted me for "OMGUS" but unvoted me the second an easier mislynch showed up. You proceeded to tag me in several posts later encouraging me to vote evil. If you thought I was scum this whole time why are you pinging me as if I am townie lol. This whole response was to me pointing out other behavior tells and convincing other to votes you for them. You are seeming desperate.
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@ILikePie5
People like Luna who are offended by words on Twitter led to Hoe Joe 2020
I never saw this til now btw. I find this kind of hilarious considering I am the most anti-cencorship mother fvcker on this site lol. I started a thread that went big on the pmain page defended wylted's behavior, and constantly are on the mods asses about over censorship lol. In fact the whole wylted thread stemmed from you informing me of the details of why wylted was being banned, so you better than anyone should know I am the least likely person to be offended by words on twitter lmao.
Not to mention I literally threw as town once in a game where bullish threatened to mod kill because I used a naughty word lol
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@Wylted
@Vader
@Polyglot
@drlebronski
Options are pie, or evil right now. There is loads more reasons to lynch pie than evil. We've mislynched evil 3 times now. Do you guys really want to keep making that same mistake?
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Pie's scum tells and oppertunity based lynches:
1. Starts off by calling me scum and dismissing my interaction with him as OMGUS (suggesting he thinks I am scum), however easily unvotes when Evil, a better mislynch oppertunity comes around. Never mentions scum reading me again until after my defense of evil, where he makes a wierd cross application that my scum play where I defended a fellow scum team mate means I am scum here if evil flips town. Like what? Talk about omgus, he is manufacturing ways to try and reduce my credibility as town even if I end up being right! His reads are based on oppertunity and not genuinity.
2. Quick switch on evil based on null tells; Pie originally told wylted he thought evil was town. He is claiming to be voting for him because he was "we(town)" But admits that if it was just "we" it would be a null tell. He is basically saying the only reason he thinks evil is scum is because he chose to clarify the obvious subtext of town in the inclusion of "we" which he has used before as town. This was apparently such a strong scum read that he flipped fully from being team "Evil is town" to team "Evil is scum". Pretty big jump in reads there for what is objectively a pretty minor reason.
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If you are sold on the evil lynch you have to bank on getting another two votes. It's possible but not guaranteed. I will fight this lynch to the end because I think it's a mislynch, and I think pie is scum. If you think there is any merit to my read on pie or poly, please let us work together and obtain a lynch. If not I am also okay with a no lynch as an alternative to an evil lynch. If evil gets lynched its not the end of the world as long as people are willing to give pie's motives a serious reading into for next day phase. Poly's as well. I imagine he is waiting around for a good moment to hammer, as he seems to appear when vote counts are posted.
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@whiteflame
Luna, if you think I’m upset that you’re challenging my view, then you’re not understanding my frustration. I’m annoyed (don’t need to calm down, I’m not angry) that you have consistently misrepresented the reasons why I have sussed Evil. I don’t mind if you challenge them, I’m up for that. I’m not particularly fond of being told that you’re challenging my view when you haven’t really touched it. I haven’t said the word “anti-town” once in all my posts, and it hasn’t been implied, either. I haven’t focused on noob tells. I’ve gone so far as to specifically reject both types of behavior as reads for him being scum, yet you keep returning to them. This is the issue because you keep bringing up reasoning that I’ve already explicitly agreed with as challenges to my way of thinking. That’s why I’m sick of seeing it, and it’s honestly making me less certain of you that you’re ignoring large swaths of my points.
I am not mis-representing your point. I know what you arguments are, and I percieve them to something you don't view them to be. I think you are mis-placing ant-town behaviors as scummy behaviors. I know you don't agree that's what you are doing, but I am least logically explaining why I think you are getting it wrong. I am also admitting that I think you genuinely think you are right here, which is why I don't think it's scummy of you to do so. But frankly if you are unwilling to see things from a different point of view here I don't know what further can be gleaned from this part of the conversation. I am more interested in seeing what lynches we can accomplish together since we don't see eye to eye on the evil lynch. If you think that lynch is still possible and that is the only lynch you are willing to take dp1, then there is literally no point in responding to me further. If you are open to looking into one of pie, or poly then we have somethign to talk about. But the next part doesn't make it seem like that is an option, so I guess we are done here.
And yes, part of the reason I’m interested in lynching him is that I think it will give us some insights into other people on his lynch. I agree that scum as pushed for mislynches on him before. I did just that in the Pokémon game. I’m willing to consider Pie much more deeply as a lynch coming off of this one, particularly if he flips town. But I’m not joining that wagon in this DP.
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