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@oromagi
and Gary Oak, right? Doesn't Ash compete quite a lot vs Gary in season 1?
Yeah he's Ash's like main rival. But he's still technically a "good guy" who is just overly competitive. Kind of a dick, but definitely doesn't make that much sense for mafia. I can actually see him being miller, though Mewtwo's justification makes a lot more sense imo.
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@oromagi
Not that I'm aware of. Team rocket is Jesse and James. They have a talking Pokémon named meowth and their boss is Giovanni but most of the antagonism in the show stems from Jesse and James
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I don't think there is any reason to suppose that cops and docs are the only roles that can be enabled merely because they are the most iconic roles in the game. In theory I could even see passive roles like bulletproof or PGO being enabled.
Bron's claim is pretty clearly cut and dry that it is an enabler for Ash (supa) so I don't even know why were talking about the enabler interacting with cops and docs.
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@Vader
I do think Narrator could exist. If the theme split is as basic at it is. Scum is Pie and Disc, however with such a clear theme split in mind, even if not given fake claims, there’s no way Pie or Disc didn’t figure it out and choose to claim Pokémon. I think Pie’s claim more sus, but I’m looking back at it and questioning the read I original read
With this being poly's first game the theme is more likely something like team rocket vs everyone else. I don't think pokemon are scum, I just don't think there are many pokemon in the game at all.
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According to the OP there is roughly 8 hours remaining in the day phase btw.
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We can debate all day about Charizard's importance in the show; He is one of Ash's main pokemon. But if there are multiple pokemon in this game, why would Charizard be chosen over other major recurring characters like Meowth or Pikachu? Even squirtle and bulbasaur are pretty big pokemon of Ash's. Charizard specifically is pretty random. It would almost make more sense if he came out and claimed Charmander.
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Copypasta from my response to pie about why I think Charizard is less likely to exist than mewtwo:
He is the ultimate finale villain to the series. I used to word villain loosely, as MewTwo was basically just the X-Men's version of Magneto. Fighting for pokemon's indepence from slavery against the "evil" humans, until Ash shows them that human and pokemon share an actual bond and it isn't just a stockholm syndrom type of thing. Charizard is one of Ash's main pokemon sure. But the reason I claimed Pikachu in the first place was partially as a test to see if there were any other pokemon, as well as because I wanted a cover up for cop. But if there are multiple pokemon in the game, pikachu is 10x's more likely to exist in it then Charizard. Charizard is less of a character in the first season then squirtle and bulbasaur combined... He's also a very well known pokemon for people who are vaguely familiar with pokemon because he is a fan favorite, which makes him the optimal fake claim for someone like pie without a deep knowledge of the pokemon universe.
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@ILikePie5
Or it’s my real claim? If I’m scum then you surely must think Disc must be scum. If having a Pokémon as a character is scummy then you should be equally suspicious of Disc.
I've already stated why I think MewTwo is more likely a pokemon to exist; He is the ultimate finale villain to the series. I used to word villain loosely, as MewTwo was basically just the X-Men's version of Magneto. Fighting for pokemon's indepence from slavery against the "evil" humans, until Ash shows them that human and pokemon share an actual bond and it isn't just a stockholm syndrom type of thing. Charizard is one of Ash's main pokemon sure. But the reason I claimed Pikachu in the first place was partially as a test to see if there were any other pokemon, as well as because I wanted a cover up for cop. But if there are multiple pokemon in the game, pikachu is 10x's more likely to exist in it then Charizard. Charizard is less of a character in the first season then squirtle and bulbasaur combined... He's also a very well known pokemon for people who are vaguely familiar with pokemon because he is a fan favorite, which makes him the optimal fake claim for someone like you without a deep knowledge of the pokemon universe. That said I am not unwilling to consider the idea that disc is also scum, though me being cop lends credence to the existence of a miller and your multiple declarations of being willing not to follow through policy lynching him give you enough of an out that I suppose he could be your scum partner.
Just from a simple Google search of Pokémon Indigo characters theres Ritchie and Delia. Besides that I’d assume there are other minor characters. I’d assume Poly had to go for a Pokémon
Both of these are actually pretty minor characters and would have been equally suspicious compared to the rest of the claimed characters. I am sure you held on to these as potential fakes claims though and decided to go with Charizard based on the existence of pikachu and MewTwo claims.
You misunderstood stood me then. I haven’t been put at L-1 for a while. I think you’re confusing me for Speed who requires that to occur. I said as soon as you have 6 people on board with your mass claim, I’d claim, and I did. I could’ve delayed longer, but I don’t want that as a townie.
In Bullish's game a while back you were demanding people put you to l-1 before you would claim. Also in one of supas game you demanded the same thing, I remember because danielle teased you about it for like 5 games afterward, and you also blamed the town for mislynching you there as well, refusing to accept any responsibility for you being lynched. Which makes it odd that now you claim so eagerly.
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@Wylted
Lunatic while using good logic in the meta analysis is using shit logic elsewhere, primarily I. His reads, with the exception of the pie read which seems sincere.
I haven't shared my other reads really, other than saying I tentatively buy most of the current role claims. The only read I think we actively dis-agree on so far is probably wylted lol
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@oromagi
I was saying power roles like cop and doc should lie about their claim, which is exactly what I did.why did you stop lying?
Because you kept asking me to reveal why I was suspecting pie; which was the fact that I was not actually a pokemon and you yourself were speculating about the number of pokemon early. There being 3 pokemon seemingly made pie look better. Also I don't care that much about the cop results; too many roles that can fuck with it. If pie is scum then I will be happy for revealing that by character claiming and taking one scum out anyway.
that's a long pauseno response. interesting.
I told you guys I was node warring earlier. You know I don't lurk. I was tagging you early and you weren't responding right away/ So you were lurking or just not checking the site? lol
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@Evilgenius
I was saying power roles like cop and doc should lie about their claim, which is exactly what I did.
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Do not listen to pie. for the love of god. please dont.
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I am gone for the evening mostly, playing node war. Lynch pie! Don't let him have you lynch ash the main fvcking character lol
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A lot of quiet people after the officer Jenny revelation. got home expecting posts from oro and whiteflame.
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@ILikePie5
So you think Luna is purposefully ignoring this (don’t really know if it’s true or not) and he’s scum partners with Whiteflame trying to get me lynched?Interesting. See this is some good stuff. More posts like this would be so good coming from you.
This is a pretty desperate seeming manipulation and twisting of words pie. Even for you.
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@ILikePie5
I am officer Jenny. Dropped enough hints about this that I'm pretty sure mafia can pick it up by now.Well if they didn’t thanks for telling them.
If you end up being scum and we lynch scum, I am okay with cop being out there. Hard to trust cop results anyway most of the time. Godfathers, lawyers, redirectors, etc etc, I honestly hate the cop role. I see way to many mislynches because of them. If you are scum I will feel okay with it. I think your Charizard claim stemmed from feeling it was safe because there was two other pokemon claims.
Lets look at this: I was essentially the last person to claim cause it was blatantly obvious Supa was Ash. I could’ve selected practically any human besides Ash and Jenny and I would’ve been fine. You think I’m dumb?
Who else could you have claimed? Brock, Misty, and Ash are the main characters and all 2 were already claimed. Literally anything else would have been suspicious. You probably thought Charizard was safe because you believed my pikachu claim, which meant 3 pokemon and you not being an outlier.
That’s been my position for like the past 10 games…
Exactly, which gives you an out for not having to vote disc if he is your scum partner. Again, I don't think he is necessarily. Just saying.
I said you needed 6 votes meaning 6 people to agree that a mass claim needs to happen for me to claim. Cause guess what happens when you get 6 people? I get lynched for not claiming cause there are 10 people in the game.
That's why I was getting pissed because you were saying you needed to get mislynched basically before you would claim. Which you have done that bullshit where you require town to put you at l-1 before you will claim, you do it all the time and its fucking annoying. Then have the gall to turn around and blame town for not getting an earth lynch off in supas game lol. People like you stall the game.
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@Vader
Just read that Luantic is actually Officer Joy. While this makes much more sense, I don't buy it fully. Everyone had claimed every since I claimed Ash, and it could be very much possible that Lunatic saw Officer Joy hadn't been claimed and decide to change his claim to put more pressure on Pie. Though I doubt this is the case, Luna is a good mafia player and wouldn't put it past him. Still this does put more pressure on Pie because of his original claim that I already wasn't fond of. This also means that Disc starts to lean scum a bit more
Supa first of all if its "Officer Jenny". You confusing Nurse Joy with Officer Joy. Earth is Nurse Joy. Secondly if you think I am fake claiming cop, then you have to think disc is the other scum, since cop and miller go together.
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I am officer Jenny. Dropped enough hints about this that I'm pretty sure mafia can pick it up by now.
So that's the pm based reason to suspect pie, because now he's the only non talking Pokémon in the game. Now do you think he stands out at all?
I still think MewTwo is more likely a character than Charizard based on importance in the show. But I'll drop that argument because I see a world where both could be scum here and pie setting up the pseudo push on the policy lynch for miller to separate themselves. He DID say that he was willing to lynch someone over the miller.
To be clear I am not saying I think pie and do are the scum team but I am open to it being a possibility. I am feeling pretty confident about pie though.
Why is everyone only responding to the theorizing about whether charizard is in the game part though and ignoring the part about why pie was going to wait to claim charizard until 6 votes until he immediately decided not too lol
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Going to lunch with my dad. Will be back in like an hour to an hour and a half.
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@oromagi
What does this refer to?
I suspect pie.
I have a pm based reason to suspect the Charizard claim highly.explain.
If you really wanna make me do it I will, but there will be consequences. I do think if I reveal it could be enough to convince you pie is an outlier here.
I'm not a Pokemon guy but from my perspective, Mewtwo stands out way more as the only non-season1 character and the only bad guy. And narrator stands out as not really a character. At least charizard is a character from season 1.What makes you say that Charizard stands out?
Well he stands out for being a pokemon for one. If that pings your alarms at all just think about it for a second. The other thing is that Charizard doesn't even make un appearance until very late in the season, within the last 10 episodes. I think just about every character here claimed can qualify as getting more screen time than him outside of the narrator, who 100% has more voice time. MewTwo is only in the movie, yes but he still gets a lot of screen time and is of huge importance in the show as an antagonist who has a change of heart but justifiable reasons for thinking the way he does. TBH MewTwo is the perfect miller.
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If we are looking at the claims list, I can make an argument for just about every character being more plausible to be in the game then Charizard. Charmander isn't even introduced into the season until episode 11, and doesn't evolve into Charizard until episode 46. There are only 55 episodes in the season. I will admit that Charizard does have a pretty big scene where he is being obstinate and refuses to listen to Ash and Ash has an emotional scene where he finally breaks through to Charizard.
But I still think this character stands out, even compared to MewTwo who technically only appears in the movie but objectively is a main threat in the series as he plays the main antagonist until the end where his mind is changed by seeing the bond humans and pokemon can share.
Charizard is definitely an outlier here, not a character worth pie threatening to stall the game out for so he can 6 votes though. Every other claimed character is a pretty "main" character comparatively, and that's even with me suspecting one of the other claims.
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I don't think I took my vote off of pie, but just in case vtl pie
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@Earth
@whiteflame
@oromagi
@Discipulus_Didicit
@drlebronski
Thoughts on the Charizard claim and how it stands out compared to the others?
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@Wylted
I'd be down to lynch pie. You don't have to fight tooth and nail.
Yeah cat's out of the bag then. I have a pm based reason to suspect the Charizard claim highly. That and Pie's behavior regarding claiming general, the posturing around how he was gonna need "6 votes to claim" and now all of a sudden claims and claims a character that stands out as much as Charizard really makes him my best option here. If he was posturing around needing 6 votes to claim Ash that would have been a different story but even then I was doubting he would be Ash here.
I have a guess who is partner is too, but I want to save that read for later in case his partner feels like helping us bus him for town cred and me mentioning them may change their mind lol
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@whiteflame
Yeah, I’m pretty sure that it takes place during the events of the season, even if it is at the very end of it. Still makes Mewtwo a bit of a standout as far as claims go, but only insofar as he’s the only character mentioned so far that is not in the series proper. That doesn’t exclude him as an option.
TBH it just solidifies my town read on him. If disc were scum it would take an easy google search of pokemon indigo league characters to realize automatically that MewTwo is a bit of a stand out in this regard. As scum maybe he had some vague memory of MewTwo being from the early pokemon and was like "hey that's a good miller claim" but I highly doubt it. We haven't seen it much lately due to his inactivity, but disc is actually in my opinion one of the better mafia players on DART. I think as scum that's far too lazy a move for him to make, it's hasty and not his style. When I was scum with him in warren's bastard states, I was the brazen scum and was later chastised by him for CC'ing a townie. I think disc is a much more methodical and diabolical scum mastermind, and if he were scum here he would have waited longer to claim and carefully thought out his options. I guess it could be a fake claim given to them by the mod, but I am not yet too eager to board that wagon until I see some sketchy behavior to go alongside him.
As of right now is general inactivity is consistent with his town play, and him probably not getting spammed discord pings by a scum partner. I actually know who I want to lynch today, but it's going to be a fight tooth and nail in order to pull it off, and I am not sure I have the time and energy to put into trying to convince the masses of it since we have node war on Black Desert Online in a few hours.
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@ILikePie5
Problem is that Bron could conceivably be a town enabler and you a scum power role if Poly wanted to. It sort of balances out the negative utility of an Enabler by connecting him to a scum role.At the same time tho, in a 10 player game, if there are 2 scum it doesn’t really fit. 3 scum I could really see it happening because it can weaken scum by forcing a townie to be alive
I don't currently scum read either supa or bron, behaviorally, and I currently buy the claims.
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@ILikePie5
Thoughts on 261-262?
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The events of the film take place during the first season of Pokémon: Indigo League.
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@Earth
What the fuck did you want me to do? Say "My character is totally not Nurse Joy tee hee!"?
Nah, you just had to put in five minutes of effort and research a pokemon gym leader or character. They have literally got hundreds. Whatever, it's beating a dead horse now, but if you had caught up on the game you would have seen the conversation where we had stated multiple times that nurse joy and officer jenny weren't to claim their real charatcers.
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@whiteflame
I though Indigo League was the first season of the TV show?It is, but Mewtwo wouldn't be in this game solely encompassed the first season. I think the idea is that the first movie took place during the events of the first season.
It's been a while, but isn't the movie kind of like a season finale for indigo league? Like MewTwo is 100% canon, because he is included even in the games that were released in that time (Red, Yellow, Blue).
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@Earth
Did you miss the part where me and whiteflame were discussing that if you were nurse Joy or officer Jenny you weren't supposed to claim your real character...
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@ILikePie5
No. I still think they should be lynched given no suitable alternatives for the sake of POE and avoiding a headache at MYLO.
Millers really arent that much of a headache at lylo. trackers/watchers should always prioritize passive roles anyway, and if many cases they will get caught via POE if there are visiting roles that can't be explained where others can be accounted for.
Oh no no. If a Cop fake claims a character that is the Tracker’s character, who do we lynch. Neither? Then we’re back to square one with even more confusion.
It's not really that confusing. You just accept that the tracker tried to fake claim and unfortunately got CC'ed. The cop doesn't have to role claim to character claim someone, and if they did they are kind of stupid. You don't have to lynch either of them here lol. That's where you are stuck in the meta so hard, you assume because a CC happened one or the other is always automatically scum.
Nah it’s just stupid wagons like the one on Wylted. Waste of my time. You want to put in the effort go ahead. Once you die, I’ll take over.
If your talking about the supadudz game, wylted never got lynched and I dont even think he was ever a serious risk for getting lynched. Regardless, not wanting to steer the game back on track is feeding my point that your playstyle is lazy. You want that result or that easy meta lynch, and just hope things work out. When they don't you can blame the people who were on wylteds lynch sure, but if you are admitting you could have done something different and chose not to it just makes you part of the problem.
Good, I’ll have a great time tonight too when I fall asleep.
TMI
About Chris being scum for the reasons I described that matched his scum play in previous games.
I mean my point was that your case on chris was pretty weaksauce until I called you out for inactivity. That part about chris in another game was like two lines and you just dis-appeared. Chris was already being scum read, and most of the rest of your "Case" on chris was literally just repeating the same shit I already said. You only doubled down on the chris lynch when you got called out for not participating and that being a potential reason you could be scum.
Well in that case I hope scum can redirect you away to the Miller or any other SOP claim :)
#makedartmafiagreatagain
#stopsopclaimingmiller
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@Earth
@Wylted
@Discipulus_Didicit
@Evilgenius
If you guys want this mess of a day phase to go anywhere, please contribute more. We are currently waiting for earth's popcorn claim. Until that happens I will just continue to argue with pie for like 20 pages, so ya'll better come and play ;-)
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@ILikePie5
Oh my a claimed miller was actually town! Gee, what a wonder! And you let him live?!Welcome to America, land of the free and home of the brave.
I am taking your non-sensical remark here as a concession that you realize it is silly to pursue policy lynches on millers lol.
The new have cop outed, because they didn't fake claim smartly. Worst case scenario here is our protective role will have to play smart with an outted cop. It's not like the cop is gonna get policy lynched. At least if I have anything to say about it.So the tracker gets lynched right? Who does that benefit? Also if the claims are far fetched it also makes it obvious to scum they are lying.
What?! No we don't lynch a claim tracker you goof... What? Are you suggesting you would lynch a tracker after he admits he fake claimed to blend in? Are you crazy?
I have no incentive to play until endgame when critical thinking and POE come more into play with various scenarios. Until then scum can kill me or leave me alive as Vanilla. Win for town either way.
Endgame in DART meta is more of a POE fest, as both scum and town, you get better bheavioral analysis early game especially with how role heavy DART is. Day Phase one is the day to play as a vanilla.
So scum also know who the Doctor is and kill them first. Redirect, RB, Bus Drive the Cop and move on with their lives. Mafia are more than happy to keep a Cop alive just like you did. Scum know the roles of the town and their own roles to use effectively.
If town fake claimed smartly, then no. You are only right if town was moronic enough to claim something that was obviously doctor or cop like nurse joy or officer jenny like whiteflame pointed out. If all they have is ash they know its a power role but are less likely to kill it as it is likely protected. And town should always take results with a grain of salt regardless, for that reason, but early game town results are more likely to be accurate given mafia don't have that information. I'd rather have town power roles claim smartly and let mafia panic and claim something when they are popcorned, and later when their role claim doesn't fit it bites them in the butt.
It doesn’t lol. I’ll keep responding to you until I fall asleep. If you want to keep cluttering the DP, I’ll gladly oblige. Or we can wait until you get your 6 people like civilized people and move from there. I’ve already pinged half the people.
You make lengthy responses sound like a threat. You know me. I find them fun and a way to pass the time. When it comes time for others to get on and post I'll happily ignore you and focus on others, but until then you are just threatening me with a good time.
Turns out I was kinda right in Destitution wasn’t I?
About what? We were both voting misterchris lol. I also suspected you, but there wasn't a whole lot of point in debating with you what did and didn't happen. You were basically denying reality, and inventing a reality that denied you were inactive or complacent. And I had said that if Chris flipped scum I would have less reason to suspect you, so debating with you back and forth was kind of pointless. If you were scum I wasn't going to convince you of that, of course you would fight that tooth and nail. There was no point in further discussion until the flip, and we were both right.
You can keep cluttering the DP until you get your 6. No problemo. I’ll just continue to do some work and await your response and then go to sleep and then start the cycle over tomorrow.
Sounds good. We will collectively be the bane of town's existence. And I'll carry the blame proudly whenever I get a vig as a power role in a game and kill you dp1. Even if you are a town power role. At least I can save town from the stupidity. :)
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@ILikePie5
That’s a long time ago. But anyways, I apologize if that’s what I said.
It's all good I wasn't offended by it really, I just thought "okay this guy thinks he's a pro or something". I don't think you are bad or anything, just stubborn. Drafterman fell into the same thing a lot too. You are the most active player here unfortunately and I am usually pretty active so we are gonna end up butting heads a lot til other players come back to the game. Normally I just kind of roll my eyes about the policy behavior and move on, but since we are the two loudest in the room the meta dis-agreements are getting highlighted more and more.
I never said town isn’t capable of mistakes. I don’t mind it at all. But make mistakes over and over again is what gets me. Especially if you’ve played in the past and aren’t a noob anymore.
Well Earth admitted his mistake in the last game, and I don't think he really made a mitstake in the TUF Villains one, I think that was a semantics misunderstanding. I consider earth a noob, not based on how many games he's been, but based on inactivity and lack of being the guy to ever move the game forward. He's just one of like half of the current players who do that. Mharman was one of those who would make a mistake, blatantly refuse to admit it, and then continue making those mistakes. I don't think earth really falls into the same category. At some point we just have to accept responsibility for how far we look into things and push lynches for them.
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@ILikePie5
Statistics are just what they are. Statistics. I’ve already said that I’m willing to find other alternatives, which kind you, I have been trying to do. Hell I let a claimed Miller just recently live till endgame because there were better lynches.And my vote hasn’t been on one person the entire time….
Oh my a claimed miller was actually town! Gee, what a wonder! And you let him live?! https://tv.getyarn.io/yarn-clip/c58cced7-e673-46ef-b970-99c0c0ddbad1/gif#Y9zKOul5.copy
So you’re not willing to do anything until a mass claim is finished. Ok. Then Ig it’s my job to stop you on this foolhardy mission and get you back to Earth to start some behavioral analysis.
Hard to do a whole lot of behavioral analysis when we are waiting on people to post, and the only two people contributing to the game are me and you.
Please give reads on each player. Thank you.
My reads aren't solid, but I'll place disc, earth and oro in the null/town pile, and everyone else in null. Like I said earlier I am going to be on high alert for vets/noob combos in whiteflame, you, wylted, and supa. Starting to town read supa a bit though, so I would say I am not neccesarily suspicious of, but cautious of whiteflame, you and wylted, and I would like to see some more from earth and evil genius to assess if they have any part of a noob/vet combo here.
Your turn.
And when that character is so far fetched we decide to lynch them and then they come out as Cop. Back to square one?
The new have cop outed, because they didn't fake claim smartly. Worst case scenario here is our protective role will have to play smart with an outted cop. It's not like the cop is gonna get policy lynched. At least if I have anything to say about it.
What role I have definitely plays a role in how I play. Saying otherwise is simply not true.
Well I am kind of saying the same thing, but you are twisting it a bit. Point is if you are town end game is to lynch scum. It doesn't make sense to lose interest because you aren't being handed results on a silver platter though, I am saying boring roles like vanilla should make you more invested because you can play with caution to the wind a bit more. If scum kill you as a vanilla its a net benefit to the town because they didn't hit a power role. If you are cop and trying to stay under the radar you might not be as willing to make yourself shine in the spotlight. I just don't understand the concept of getting bored because you don't have a power role, and I think it indicates a weakness that shows you rely on results or your role assisting town over trying to actually assess someone and meet that goal I mentioned earlier.
Ok let’s think about this. Let’s assume all 4 of you are town. There are still 4 people left. Assume 2 are PRs. 50% chance scum hits a PR. Now with your character lock, it’s a 100% chance they hit a PR because they know the characters that are likely to be power roles. At the expense of what? Locking scum into characters. Ok.
Awesome, you are almost making my point for me but missing a couple pieces of the puzzle. We can both agree that 50% odds of hitting a power role are not good. Where you are wrong is the 100% chance of hitting a power role with a mass claim, because now scum has to gamble with doctor protections, etc. As scum I might be more willing to target a player I would think no one would be protecting then I would be to go straight for the claimed main character who could be an investigative role. How do you think greyparrot got away with claiming power roles dp1 and surviving til late game all the time? Mafia are too afraid to get their kill blocked. The best case scenario is no claims dp1 and let mafia shoot in the dark here imo, but that was already fvcked up, so we go with the next best option and punish mafia the same way town is being punished by POE.
Then why are you responding to me. Practice what you preach before telling others what they should do.
I have in the past, and unfortunately I think its just making your ego worse. The more you get the last word the more you will continue to be stubborn and obstinate. I stopped responding to you several times in destitution mafia so we could get back on track. That said I will ignore you when others start posting and I get a better direction to focus. As of right now I have nothing better to do than to logically own you so why not?
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@ILikePie5
I don’t even remember this lol. Which signup was it?
I can't find it I think it was like 5-7 months ago when I was a bit inactive. I remember you said I was over rated or something or saying I am not that good as some people thought or some shit. It was really out of nowhere, and I was on mobile so I never responded to it, just let it go, but it's when I noticed the ego first blooming.
I’ve never called out my scum partner. I call out townies a lot for a lack of critical thinking like Grey did in your game. And then call out mods for shitty balance but that’s about it. If that’s ego to you, ok?
I mean at some point you have to accept that town makes mistakes though. If you punish town mistakes every time by some strict meta standard its kind of on you when you fuck up on mislynch them because you were so stubborn and unwilling to see that town is capable of mistakes as well.
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@ILikePie5
You what my pet peev is? Make the same mistake over and over again. Earth in your game refused to listen to town when I asked him nicely. I lynched him and went into the next game with a clean slate. He did the same shit again by being anti-town. If you allowed me to continue here and Earth claimed properly I would be completely fine with it.He’s not just ruining the game for me, he’s ruining it for every other townie as well. But I’m stubborn. Sure.
Earth literally complied the best way he knew how, and you got caught up in semantics. His wincon statement said he was vanilla town, which also happened to be his role. Earth complied exactly as was asked and town misunderstood him and punished him for it. And the not reading his claim correctly was such a retarded reason to lynch him. I happily boarded it because I was scum, but even as scum I defended how stupid that lynch was for a bit because that's what I would have done as town. One dimensional thinking results in mislynches that you can easily just pin the blame on the mislynchee while refusing to acknowledge or grow from it at all.
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@ILikePie5
And what comments are you talking about. I would love to hear them of course.
You randomly called me out a couple months ago in a sign ups thread or endgame saying I am a shitty mafia player or something like that when I never claimed to be an amazing player or anything. That and just your general gloating in endgames, blaming your team when you get it wrong instead of taking any responsibility, instead of just saying GG and moving on. You have a sense of superiority in mafia, but you really just could use an ego check.
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@ILikePie5
You can do whatever you want. If you want to engage in long thread discussions I will engage you on them out of principle. In any other forum, I could give two shits if Oro posts something an entire page long.
Which just proves my point; You are more concerned with having the last word than you are with actually having a discussion that progresses the game. It's why I will ignore you a lot lately; you are more concerned with the appearance of being right. Generally your just repeating the same shit or not even addressing my argument though when you do it. Kind of boring when you always play into your own narrative, but you do you.
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@ILikePie5
Even statistics can be manipulated and be proven foolhardy with Independence in mind.
Sure they can, drafter does it a lot too when trying to make his points. That's why I am not going to dig through every fucking mafia game in history to prove how many times millers were mislynched based on policy chasing. Luckily I think most people are smart enough these days not to pursue meta analysis like this, but this doesn't change the fact that as long as you keep your vote on people for poor reasoning it isn't going to further the day phase in any way. You keep asking me what I am doing, who I am lynching, like that justifies wasting the entire day phase keeping your vote on one person for a stupid thing. Check yourself first.
At least I plan on lynching. You would rather have us at an impasse and No Lynch.
I never said that lol. I just said I hadn't decided on a lynch yet as it hasn't even been 24 hours yet and there is a mass claim in the works that needs to be accomplished first.
Earth should not popcorn claim. I don’t have a rush. I’m simply asking you for your reads and behavioral analysis.
You haven't asked me for reads on any one person, you just asked me who I am lynching. As of right now I am lynching no one. You could try to rephrase that and ask my specific thoughts on a specific player if you wanted this to actually go anywhere. I'd be more than happy to provide thoughts on a player, even if they are limited due to the dp not even being a day old yet and 90% of the conversation being me and you responding to each other lol.
Ya when someone town counterclaims and they say they’re the tracker. We gonna lynch the Tracker right? Who does that freaking help.
We are not mass claiming for roles, I am suggesting characters only. I said power roles should fake claim smartly. Meaning don't claim like ash or something stupid like that.
No pressure means you don’t play your best game. I work best when I’m under pressure which naturally comes via a role or later in the game when we have to lynch right.
You can always play your best game, what role you are should have no bearing on how you play unless you are mafia. If you are town your goal should be to hunt and find scum. That goal shouldn't be alleviated because you are handed results on a silver platter.
Cause it’s a character not a role lol. You’re spoon feeding mafia their night actions on who to kill. I’m not gonna stand for it just like as always.
Mafia can already do that pretty easily with 2-4 claims, when you consider they also know 2-3 mafia players can also be exlcuded from the town list. If you can't learn to scum hunt without pressing people for character claims, then at least punish mafia by locking them into a claim they may not be able to back up later with a role that makes any sense with their character.
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@drlebronski
this isnt a political forum
Kool, K Thnks, any mafia related thoughts then from the peanut gallery?
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@whiteflame
I respect that you're doing this with a bigger picture in mind. Personally, I'm just thinking about how this game is going to play out, and I don't want to overcomplicate it by adding more fake claims. I suspect they won't go over well, but I concede your point that it teaches lessons for other games. I've certainly learned from my own mistakes.I'll work with whatever we end up doing at this stage. If that means mass claiming, then I'll do it, though I still believe it's a mistake for the purposes of this game.
I'll make the same point to you as I did to pie; getting just 2-3 claims day phase 1 (while meta for some reason) is actually pretty bad. There is a reason I haven't been pursuing character claims on any of my scum reads lately. The game where I got badger lynched day phase 1? I never asked him for a claim once. He kept going back to that to. "What are you pressuring me for, a claim a role, what?" As if him claiming makes all the behavior analysis I had against him just go away. Same thing applies to misterchris is the game right after that. We need to get out of the habit of just pressuring people for a claim just because they are inactive. Sure pressure, them, I encourage it. But why make them claim? How many times have we done that to a noob just for them to come out and claim a power role? It always hurts town. Or how many times do people get suspected for bad behavior but then just get unvoted because they had a really solid fake claim claim? We need to etiher get out of the habit of pressing for claims in general, or start mass claiming characters every phase. I personally would prefer no claims, but we are already in this hole are we not? Sure if someone is a cop or doctor and they are almost gonna get lynched, they might want to claim. We should take the claim in context and maybe unvote if we really feel that player is town and just messed up, but we shouldn't discredit the behavior completely.
But I was able to deduce pretty much all the main power roles in that game where me and poly were scum in dp2. I gambled a bit on letting the cop live in hopes of screwing with his results, but really me and poly had the power roels figured out DP2 because of the 3-4 claims we had dp1. Pushing for claims dp1 is shooting ourselves in the foot. Since we've already shot ourselves in the foot, I am just suggesting that by mass claiming we potentially have a higher chance of shooting mafia in theirs as well. It's not a guarantee, but if there are decent players on the scum team, the inside info they have already POE's another 2-3 power roles of the player list of ten, meaning they already have a narrow pool in which to consider power roles from.
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@ILikePie5
They are used frequently enough that they shouldn't be discredited based on claim alone. It's a lazy lynch train that is usually devoid of behavioral analysis.It only takes once.
Even a blind squirrel occasionally finds a nut, and a broken clock is right twice a day. Statistically, you are still going to be wrong more than you will be right.
I’ve already posted my thoughts on the enabler claim from Bron and have even shared my thoughts with Oro on it.
Your thoughts are based on the claim alone, devoid of context and thematic relevance, and the obvious one, behavior. I am afraid you will need a better case than that to get that lynch.
You don’t want to lynch any of those already claimed. So who do you want to lynch? Me? For stopping this foolhardy mass claim plan? What’s the future? No Lynch?
I am waiting for earth to popcorn claim, I can decide who or if I even want to lynch at all later. Again the game isn't even 24 hours old yet. What's your rush?
So you want to risk a person throwing the game for town just so they don’t killed? Even if a Cop claims there are protective roles. There are Watchers, etc. It’s even worse to throw than to simply claim when pressured.
It's only throwing the game if you idiotically lynch the person caliming doc, watcher, cop etc. Which you of course would probably do and just blame them for the loss at the end of the game lol.
I get bored when I am Vanilla. The fact is activity is already low to begin to with and it just makes it worse. You gotta deal with it. We both know this site ain’t like Mafiascum and other sites. Only telling the truth. But I still play to my win con even if I hate doing. Early on it’s not as fun, but when I’m alive later in the game it’s much much easier and fun. Just look at the last two or three games and compare it to someone else’s play like GP. My brainpower I feel is wasted in a vanilla game where we’re trying to find something that could be dumb. I’d rather watch Netflix
Don't get bored with vanillas claims then. Be the fix to the problem lol. There's so much potential with vanilla, fake leading mafia to believe you are a power role to draw the night kill, being able to scum hunt as vehemently as you want with little risk, etc. If you are town cop and playing extremely pro town you are much more likely to be night killed which hurts town. Vanilla is a free pass to play however you want and not fear the consequences. It's the best town role in the game. This site isn't like mafiascum, which is why I unfortunately cave to these role heavy games, but the point is that it could be just as good if we change our mentality about stuff.
I focus on both. I’ve never advocated for a mass claim unless I felt it would genuinely we helpful and not cause harm. You know that. We pressure people to get claims and sometimes if we’re right they’re put in a bad spot. Just look at Poly for example.
Why can't scum slips also happen in a mass claim? Just curious how you think poly being new refutes the point about mass claiming lol.
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@ILikePie5
You’re not gonna change my opinion on this matter.
Yeah pie. See this is the problem with you as a player, and why I am getting sick of being baited into these long back and forth text chains with you. If this were another forum besides mafia I would happily just destroy your illogical stubborness all day out of entertainment. I used to do it in mafia all the time, but I've learned most people (especially town) definitely aren't reading through these exchanges and the accomplish nothing but cluttering the day phase. If there was a conversation to be had, or you were open up to learning different or actually willing to change your mind on anything, this would be different. I've picked up on you lately as just wanting to be a stubborn prick regardless of your alignment, which just makes it all that more frustrating when you are town.
The problem is your ego is the size of California and Texas combined. I've noticed it with many comments you've made lately, and I just have let them slide, but it's pretty clear. I guess the first sign that you will double down and cult up with any belief regardless of the lack of logic behind it should have been the fact that your still a fervent Trump supporter lol.
I would say you should go to a site like mafiascum or mafiauniverse and try out these meta chasing antics and see how they work for you. But no, that wouldn't work. As you continually demosntrate in both forum and live mafia that you will pursue these retarded, absent of logic meta chasing of auto lynching millers despite having been told and explained logically many times how inconsistent it actually results in the lynch of scum.
Nah, whenever town loses it's always someone else on the team's fault, and never because of your faulty pursuit. The idea that town never makes mistakes (as you hold with earth) and when they do it's their fault even though you decided to lynch them knowing they are prone to make mistakes is another demonstratable thing that just shows what is already the obvious conclusion here: You are a stubborn prick.
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@whiteflame
I mean... do you trust that they will? If it's Evilgenius or Earth? I'm not trying to throw shade, but I'd actually prefer knowing who their actual characters are over forming wagons on town due to poorly executed fake claims.
I mean I am blatantly telling them to if they are of those roles. If they don't then hopefully they learn from the mistake. We need to change what's meta and do what's appropriate in the situation, otherwise town will keep making the same mistakes. Noobs on mafiascum learn these lessons in their first games, why should it be any different on Dart?
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@ILikePie5
I don’t think you read my statement properly. I said I wouldn’t claim and I urged everyone else who hasn’t claimed to not claim either. If the votes are on me I’ll happily claim. Right now you are guaranteed only 2 votes.
Just don't be that fucking guy. If everyone has mass claimed except for you and you only didn't claim because there wasn't enough activity to vote you or something, I am gonna be pretty pissed off and just vig you or fuck with you as town until the day I die just for the sake of you being a petty asshole. Don't be a royalpaladin. We've dealt with enough of them over the years and it is pretty tiring.
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@ILikePie5
This is not true. Wylted agrees with me.
Let's talk like good players here; vets who know what they are doing and have years of practice... When we get in live mafia games and you start trying to policy lynch people you are ignored most of the time, because people realize the idea of lynching all millers is pretty retarded. It's an old meta that was made up by someone and only stuck around because you propegate it constantly. Truth is, millers are incredibly likely to exist in most dart games, and it's rare when they don't. The argument isn't all ad populum here, but the fact that you still push miller claims by cirtue of them being miller is frankly pretty idiotic.
Doesn’t really matter. Mods use it as a fake claim or don’t use it at all is the point.
They are used frequently enough that they shouldn't be discredited based on claim alone. It's a lazy lynch train that is usually devoid of behavioral analysis.
Have you read the DP? Because there are a lot of reasons why both based on the knowledge we have could be suitable lynches.
Why don't you provide your own reasoning for the independent lynches of them? Oro already pointed out that this definition of enabler doesn't suit what his recognized definition of enabler is, and I called him out on it already for being poor reasoning to lynch someone. Other than that I am not really seeing any real reason to lynch either the miller or enabler based on their claim alone. If anything the wagoning on them makes them look more town lol.
It would be anti-town to attempt to do that because you could be CCed instantly. And when you flip town as a freakin Cop wtf.
It's not anti town to do it. Key word "smartly". Don't claim something dumb that is likely to be counterable, but remove yourself as a night kill target. And pretty much ignore policy lynching mindset's like yours that want to lynch claimed cops because they attempted to fake claim for towns benefit. That would be my advice. :)
If you want a behavior game run a Vanilla game without a theme and without a bunch of roles.
I would love a game like that, few roles and vanilla heavy. The unfortunate thing is people here tend to get bored or disinterested without a night action. You yourself are one of these. The few times I've given you a non power role in my games you get bored and are less active, and have openly admitted to this in the past. Which feeds my point and rant a bit about how frustrating it is that players like you focus so much on role analysis that we have to resort to mass claiming. That and your god damn policy lynching which is absolutely retarded lol.
Only it’s anti-town when they’re CCed
If people like you are dumb enough to still lynch a claimed cop or doc after they've claimed. Maybe that is the current state of DART, but I hold hope that people would strive to be better and less lazy and actually try to invest time and effort into scum hunting.
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@ILikePie5
This just says all we need to know about Lunatic’s plan
Yeah because you assume town is too stupid to do it? If you are right that is a bad reflection of Dart's town play. Millers should fake claim. Cops and docs pressed dp1 should fake claim. The only case for them revealing is if they are counter claimed and it would other wise lead to a mislynch. It's really not as over complicated as you make it sound.
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