MisterChris's avatar

MisterChris

*Moderator*

A member since

5
10
11

Total posts: 2,897

Posted in:
MEEP: Reformed ban policy & DebateArt President
After a long period of careful policy creation and review, we have a few big MEEP propositions that I'm very excited about sharing.

PROPOSITIONS:

Below are the proposed changes to be voted on. Please vote “yes” or “no” for each one. You may change your vote at a later time, just don’t be a pain about it. 

This house proposes:
  1. In order to promote consistent, fair and even-handed moderating practices across the board, the unreserved adoption of the Standardized Policy Enforcement System (SPES) which overhauls and systematizes banning practices and replaces the Consequences section of CoC.
  2. In order to allow more accurate & direct community representation, the unreserved adoption of the proposed DebateArt President office and related policy.
  3. The creation of a “Community” category in the Help Center that will include:
  • The Hall of Fame policy and archive
  • The DebateArt President policy and archive
  • The moderation ban log
ABOUT MEEP:
 
As seen in the moderation overview,
Moderation may submit questions and proposals regarding moderation policy, voting policy, and the code of conduct to Moderation Engagement and Enactment Processes (MEEPs). MEEPs are binding referenda and comment periods on the questions and proposals submitted. Moderation has full discretion on which questions and proposals are submitted to MEEPs, though no substantive change to the COC may be made without either the consent of the site owner(s) or ratification via a MEEP.
 
In order for a submitted question or proposal to be ratified, at least 10 users must have voted in the MEEP, and more than a majority of all those voting must have voted for the question or proposal. That means, in practice, that in a MEEP with 10 total voters, the minimum threshold for a binding result is 7 votes in favor of the proposal or question. If a MEEP fails to produce a binding result, moderation will maintain the pre-MEEP status quo, unless doing so is entirely untenable.
The voting period will be open from now until 12:00 PM (EST) Friday, September 10th. 

Now, for Narnia, and for Aslan!!!

Created:
1
Posted in:
DART Hall of Fame
Hall of Fame III
Pursuant to the third Hall of Fame election process, the following are inducted into the DebateArt.com Hall of Fame:
 
-- Users --

MisterChris

MisterChris has been an integral part of DA for quite some time as both a contributor and a moderator for the site. What really separates him from others, though, is a continual commitment to excellence in all that he does. Especially given how relatively new he is to debate, it’s incredible to see how his capabilities have improved so quickly. He’s constantly working to improve, not just for his own sake, but to elevate discourse on the site and to help others improve

      -Whiteflame

Dr. whiteflame always rises to meet the challenge, such that it is not hyperbole to say he is the apex member of this debating community. That he still makes the time for this, even after finishing his PhD and getting married, says a ton about his dedication. The core thing to understand about whiteflame is that he loves every aspect of debates. The overwhelming quality and thoughtfulness of his own debates speaks for themselves. As a voter he takes equal delight in following an epistemological kritik down the rabbit hole, or just appreciating a well executed comedic argument. Even with short notice, he honors requests to vote on even the most verbose offerings. With sufficient notice, he frequently casts several page votes, periodically being more detailed and knowledgeable to the subject matter than said debates themselves; with the quality of such further magnified by him doing that without assigning points for outside content.

Put simply, whiteflame is the very best of us.

      -Ragnar
fauxlaw is truly the master of semantics. He overwhelms any opponent with his wealth of knowledge to minute details others would overlook, and bedazzles voters... The depth of complexity and insights he reaches in his cases can be a double edged sword, making his cases both hard to defeat but likewise hard to judge.
In his relatively short time here, the magnitude of his contributions in both debates and forum posts are immense. He is in the top ten of the debates leaderboard most metrics (rating, votes, comments, total debates, debates won, and of course debates tied); and similarly for the forum leaderboard (top ten for topics created and liked posts, top twenty for posts made and mentions).

      -Ragnar
When an RFD on a debate is over 15 pages long, that tells you something about the debate's quality and intensity. Little needs to be said about the two debaters in this one: both MisterChris and Undefeatable are strong debaters, and I would go so far as to say that this is Undefeatable's best work I've read to date. Each approaches the topic via multiple avenues and works hard to both defend their arguments and assail those of the other side. There are many debates that could fit this description, but what sets this apart is the degree to which both sides commit. I've seen extensive debates like this play out over multiple rounds before and watched multiple arguments either dwindle or fall by the wayside when things got complex. It's incredible to watch these two debaters juggle all the arguments and keep all the balls in the air throughout.

      -Whiteflame
When you take two debaters of this caliber and have them compete, you know the debate will be of fine quality. This debate is no exception. Both oromagi and Fruit_Inspector are highly skilled and highly ranked, and their clash is truly impressive to watch. An argument could be made for the debate’s inclusion in the HoF based on the former alone, disregarding the debate’s outcome entirely. Yet, what makes this debate truly iconic and historic is the extraordinary upset victory pulled off by Fruit_Inspector, ending oromagi’s colossal sub-100 debate win streak in a rather close debate. Both the achievement of attaining such a gargantuan streak and the achievement of ending that streak are indisputably HoF worthy, making this debate a no-brainer for the Hall of Fame.

      -MisterChris
One of the earlier examples of many debates on this site about systemic racism, I see this one as emblematic of much of the arguments both sides give on the topic. While this might make it seem similar to other debates on the topic, including several others by Undefeatable, it is this debate that perhaps tests the concept of systemic racism best, with Undefeatable wielding a multitude of studies against an opponent whose arguments are largely built on de-linking those examples from systemic racism. What plays out is an examination of how society and culture have affected various peoples, and while there is agreement here on so much of what has gone wrong, it's in the details of where these stem from that the debate yields its most fascinating discussions.

      -Whiteflame

-- Threads --

Why are we banning wylted?
Lunatic
 
Why did I vote for "WHY are we BANNING WYLTED?" as one of the top topics of the year? 
 
  • Highly representative of our little cadre and how we do
    • 25 different posters across 288 posts.
    • Posted in the wrong forum
    • Focused on the limits of free speech (we have this conversation almost constantly in a lot of little ways)
      • Erred on the side of free speech
    • Lost the thread of our thesis many times
    • devolved into irrelevant dogfights and crosstalk frequently
    • continued arguing long after the question was decided
  • I like that minds were changed by way of debate- that rarely happens on this site but persuasion is our ultimate purpose here so it's nice to see a bit of friendly persuasion on display occasionally
  • Dramatic tension dénouementing in Wylted's return.  Has anybody alt'd harder than Wylted and still been allowed to return?  Drama.        
      -Oromagi 
Within this legendary thread, we uncover possibly one of the most shocking and disturbing revelations in all of DART history: every DebateArt user is secretly an alternate account of Sum1hugme. Yes, you read that correctly. Everyone is him. I am Sum1hugme. You are Sum1hugme. Even Sum1hugme is Sum1hugme! Pretty creepy, right?
 
      -MisterChris
A mafia game that can garner over 1000 posts certainly deserves to be credited for some honor, and the Hall of Fame. With Speedrace’s game being the only mafia game to ever hit 1000 posts on this site and with the integral core mafia plays on this site, without a doubt, this thread deserves it

      -SupaDudz


Conclusion
This concludes the induction announcement. Congratulations to all those inducted!



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Why are we banning wylted?
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@oromagi
lol thanks. This will be a rather unique write-up
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Who has the biggest dick on DART?
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@Bones
The COC reads: "Spam is prohibited, and any overtly repetitive nonsensical posts are considered spam."

Please keep posts like these to a minimum. Thank you
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At what point is it far enough for you right-wing nutjobs to call it racist and too far?
The post in question has been addressed here: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6531/post-links/283345

The mod team has agreed on this course of action.
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Roast the person above you
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@TheUnderdog
************
Regarding Post #10,

Consider this a formal warning. The CoC specifies: "Unwarranted systemic vulgarity and invectives, which may include off topic personal attacks and/or hate speech, are subject to disciplinary actions."

Despite your semantic appeals or however benign your original intent of this statement was, it is objectively vile and meets the necessary severity requirement to be actionable.

However, this being your first offense, and this being a post that only borderlines outright hate speech (due to the context of the discussion and your insistence that the post in question was not meant in a racist manner... i.e. a concession of the evils and falsities of your statement), you will not be subjected to further disciplinary action.

Nonetheless, to be clear, further statements of this caliber will not be tolerated and will be met with swift action. I'm asking for your compliance. It is in the best interest of DART and DART's users to actively avoid being populated or characterized by such content.

************


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Hall of Fame III - Voting
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@whiteflame
You're forgetting about yourself, yknow. Congrats!
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Hall of Fame III - Voting
Needless to say, I'm thankful to all who graciously voted me into the HoF and I'm honored to be a part of it. I can only hope DART will continue to produce content as notable as what has been made in the past year. 
Created:
2
Posted in:
Hall of Fame III - Tiebreaker Runoff
Debate:
Resolved: Violent revolution is a just response to political oppression

Thread:
Captain America Civil War Mafia DP1, since I think mafia needs some more recognition in the HoF.

Created:
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Posted in:
Hall of Fame III - Voting
I vote the following:

USERS

  • Theweakeredge 
  • Fauxlaw
  • Whiteflame 
DEBATES

THREADS





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Posted in:
Hall Of Fame III - Nominations
Although, if we're past time it may be better to end voting here. 
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Posted in:
Hall Of Fame III - Nominations
I also vote my "Confession" thread: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5146-confession
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Posted in:
Hall Of Fame III - Nominations
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@Barney
@Vader
I vote the "Just checking in" thread.
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Fast Food Mafia DP1
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@Polyglot
Character tells us nothing. Give us your role.
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Fast Food Mafia DP1
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@Wylted
nah
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Fast Food Mafia DP1
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@whiteflame
We can talk about that more next DP. Right now I want to pressure Poly and am too pooped from running a 5k to do much more analysis.
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Posted in:
Fast Food Mafia DP1
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@Earth
@Wylted
@Discipulus_Didicit
@Speedrace
Cmonnnnnnnnnnnnn
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Posted in:
Fast Food Mafia DP1
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@Lunatic
@whiteflame
@ILikePie5
@oromagi
Come back bois we got a few hours left. 
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Fast Food Mafia DP1
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@Polyglot
Come back and claim.
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Fast Food Mafia DP1
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@Wylted
one town CC to catch scum is a fair trade. People need to stop thinking roles matter. 

You assume that if there are other protective roles it is certain Earth is SCUM when we do not know that is the case. Do not assume it would be unbalanced, we have no idea what roles SCUM have. Moreover, if we were wrong it could severely injure TOWN in the future. I think it is a bit short-sighted to encourage them to out themselves now. 


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Fast Food Mafia DP1
OK I'm back let's do this.

No one right now particularly stands out as SCUM to me, so I'm going to go the POE route and see where we end up.

TOWN-lean (fairly confident)

  • Oromagi - When Oro is SCUM his sole strat is to disappear. He has said so himself, stating he does this because he is not a talented SCUM player. So far, Oro has been scumhunting fairly actively. I'm pretty confident he's TOWN. 
  • D_D - I'm not quite sure how he normally acts as TOWN but his sus on Wylted was more justified (targeting the fact Wylted wanted TOWN to claim) than Whiteflame's and he's been pretty active with his scumhunting and giving good contributions.
  • iLikePie5 - pro-TOWN force, refocusing TOWN after the Wylted crap.
  • Lunatic - from what little he's posted he has stayed pro-TOWN I think, especially with beating me to pointing out Whiteflame's behavior as I'll get more into below.
Neutral

  • Speedrace - The fact he never showed until he started receiving pressure is fishy, could possibly reflect being a part of a SCUM chat on Discord (after all he admits he only showed due to a Discord notif). However I'm also aware of the fact he's otherwise AWOL on the site and Supa asked him if he wanted to join over Discord, so ultimately my read is null. There's really not much to analyze from him. I like the fact he questions the Wylted lynch and refuses to hop on immediately.
  • Wylted - Just standard Wylted shenanigans throughout the game that really don't reflect alignment either way. The only thing that gives me pause is his bright idea of the DOC and WATCHER (if present) to out themselves. Another product of pure impulse, or a strategic SCUM move? He gets a FoS from me.
  • Earth - He's defensive but he was just the same during the TUF Villains game and what-do-ya-know he was TOWN. Don't think it indicates affiliation either way. Unless he gets CC'd by a protective role (which I still think is short-sighted), he is neutral with me.

Slight SCUM-lean

  • Whiteflame - As SCUM I'd think he'd be more supportive of Wylted's suggestion for everyone to claim, and meekly back down and reverse his position should the rest of TOWN disagree. However, Whiteflame's vote on Wylted is interesting to me. Whiteflame has observed Wylted do literally the same thing before for the exact reason Wylted stated... "It was an annoyed emotional vote. I also knew it was pointless, so might as well remove it at some point." It was pretty obvious to me this was standard Wylted just as we've encountered him the past 3-4 games. Like I said before, he is impulsive and doesn't really think his decisions through much. Whiteflame knows this. Wylted's done crazy gladiator gambits and Whiteflame never batted an eye. The fact that Wylted did this indicates pretty much nothing should be common knowledge among us all at this point. Whiteflame's sole saving grace is the fact he seems to be voting Wylted as an early activity-generator... "right now, he's the only person who have any suspicions of so far, so he'll be my vote for the time being." A problem though is it took him a while to relent pressure. He really only relented when TOWN agreed Wylted was just being Wylted and moved on. Now, to be clear, this is all could easily be overanalyzing minute details, but Whiteflame does retain a FoS from me. 
  • Polygot - Chimed in seconding Whiteflame's assessment against claiming early. Other than this he's been AWOL. I think it's worth pressuring him.

    VTL Polygot. Please claim. 


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Fast Food Mafia DP1
Is anyone a doctor or a watcher?

If anyone is either of these roles do NOT cc. It's shortsighted and will benefit mafia tremendously
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Fast Food Mafia DP1
I'm going to be at work for the next 7-8 hrs. I apologize for not checking in earlier today but I was out and about. Will come with some analysis tonight (if I can scrap two braincells together)
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Fast Food Mafia DP1
Similar to D_D and Wylted my justification is non-existent. This seems to be a common feature among TOWN.
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Fast Food Mafia DP1
About Wylted... he did get onto Oro before about the "cryptography," I was right about that. However, in the game he did it in, he was SCUM: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6423/post-links/276116

Wondering if that means anything. I feel like his distaste for it is real even if he was fishing for a mislynch there. 
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Fast Food Mafia DP1
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@ILikePie5
He’s still the most inactive. Plus we gotta move the game forward

Not a good justif for a lynch train. 
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Fast Food Mafia DP1
There is no theme split. You are talking out of your ass.

Is D_D always this much of an a-hole or is it just this game?

What's worse is he's right... I didn't realize the implications of no theme split at first, that SCUM can freely claim their characters... The only thing we can evaluate scum with is their power role claims...

I don't think Wylted is necessarily SCUM because of his claim, although I'll agree we should keep SCUM in the dark to power roles. He is impulsive and doesn't really think his decisions through much. Claiming immediately is something I'd predict him doing in this situation. He's been angry about Oro's "cryptography" in the past as well. 


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Posted in:
Hall Of Fame III - Nominations
I nominate the following:

USERS

  • Theweakeredge - has contributed an insane amount of content to DART within the short time he has been with us, rocketing within the top 10 on the debate leaderboard and becoming the user with the largest post/like ratio by a landslide.
  • Fauxlaw - despite throwing the occasional temper tantrum, he is a massive contributor worthy of a place within the HoF.
  • Whiteflame - A high contributor overall, and has been consistently the most respected voter and the de facto "debate coach" of the debate community on DART for a good time now. He is also taking up the mantle in a voting mod position and he's someone I highly respect as an individual. Whiteflame is a no brainer for the HoF in my view.
DEBATES

I'm nominating 
 I know, I know. "Why are you nominating your own debates?" I get it. However, this is the debate I am most proud of because it was probably one of my best performances period. Undefeatable put in a valiant effort on a difficult topic and it ultimately was (imo) his best work as well. To top it off, this was the longest RFD Whiteflame has ever done. Definitely one of the best debates I've been able to participate in. If I had more slots available I'd want to nominate one of my debates with Speed as well but like Whiteflame said, gotta "spread the love."

I mean, you all knew this was coming, right? Biggest upset in DART history between two talented debaters. Nuff said.

When you're dealing with these two you know the debate will be top quality. One that is live as well is especially notable. 

FORUM THREADS

Not certain yet. Will update this later when I know what to nominate. 

Created:
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Destitution mafia dp2
I didn't know I was mafia... Oh well, guess it doesn't change my play any. I should've read DP1 more closely before posting anything, that was the big mistake I made... Making a typo and not gathering all the facts... TOWN latched onto me for a stupid reason but they were beyond lucky with it.
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Fast Food Mafia DP1
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@Earth
Sups seemingly confirmed the non existence of 3rd parties. Are 3rd parties not in meta in DART anymore?

They're unusual lately, so we usually don't plan on having TP to worry about unless there's good reason to. 
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Destitution mafia dp2
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@Discipulus_Didicit
You said you were serial killer last do. Serial killer is scum...

Well, that's the thing. Wylted didn't put me in a SCUM chat or anything so I assumed I was a TP role. 
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Fast Food Mafia DP1
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@Discipulus_Didicit
While you're right here I don't think that necessarily means Wylted is SCUM unless there are fake claims given to the SCUM team. If there aren't fake claims given, he is still TOWN in my book for claiming first.
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Fast Food Mafia DP1
Hello all!

I won't be claiming immediately either... If we all claim at once, SCUM will easily be able to fake claim. We need to keep them in the dark so that they are more likely to slip up.
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Posted in:
Black kids watch a man drown to death and mock him
Knowing the sort of quality discussion a thread like this will inevitably generate, I'm locking it as a preventative measure. 
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DART DISCORD TOURNAMENT (VC)
I'll participate
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Supas Theme Split or No Theme Split Mafia [SIGN UPS]
Let's go theme split. /in
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Destitution mafia dp2
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Destitution mafia dp2
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@Polyglot
Chris
DP1 Lynch + Whitflame/Lunatic/Pie/Poly 
Total: 5 kills

Actually, I took 7 hits. 

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Destitution mafia dp2
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@ILikePie5
So Chris shot me good to know.

One scum down. Hopefully only one to go

I suggest TOWN take this opportunity to investigate the next lynch. I will only take 4 hits to die (1 lynch + 3 vigs). The rest of TOWN should focus their firepower elsewhere. 
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Destitution mafia dp2
Make that 3 deathproofs, sorry misread Wylted's post to me.
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Destitution mafia dp2
Also, I only have 2 deathproofs left. Now give me the sweet relief of death you mongrels!
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Destitution mafia dp2
I shot Pie on a hunch, I know I'm dead. Anyhow, I am TP, not SCUM. I win independently so TOWN will want to lynch me regardless. I offered to stick around and scumhunt and I can unless TOWN wants to skip it. 
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destitution mafia DP1
That is all. You can choose to let me scumhunt next DP or lynch me immediately. Either way I know I'm dead so I'm not trying funny business.
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destitution mafia DP1
I'm a TP serial killer and I have x10 deathproof so I won't die immediately this NP. I can help TOWN scumhunt a bit next DP and then you can lynch me for good. I genuinely think the reasons for my lynch were dumb but lucky. And since I'm not actually mafia, those who are on my wagon now should be analyzed.
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destitution mafia DP1
Will be back to respond later tonight. Got some church stuff to get to
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Hall of Fame Upcoming
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@Barney
I like that idea. Will work on the ban log thing too.
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destitution mafia DP1
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@Lunatic
So what we are left with is this: Maybe town is being a little unforgiving about your behavior. But at the end of the day you made a mistake, and people latched onto it, as town tend to do with these things. I am left with trying to determine how authethic your raction to that pressure is, and I am still not sure how to read the fact that you are not being very understanding of your pressure, though it seems like it should be fairly obvious. Then we are back in the loop of "is this misterchris being defensive here mean he is scum, or just being an obstinate town?"

The thing I was surprised about isn't that TOWN reacted to my #81 post. That's to be expected. What surprised me is that TOWN continued to harp on the same arguments that I addressed literally a few posts later in #88 until I came back just a few hours ago (I mean, what I've been saying today to defend myself is basically what I was saying last night). It frustrated me that what I said to defend myself was more or less ignored while TOWN was being led into a mislynch. I guess that's the reason you can sense some defensiveness in my tone. I don't expect everyone to automatically pick up nuances, but I think if I explain the nuances and it's still ignored I have a reason to be a bit defensive. 

You can call me "obstinate TOWN," and maybe that's accurate. As long as you recognize I'm TOWN we can shift to a more productive gear.

If it's to pressure poly, then you are kind of hopeless here. Poly's reaction even if you can argue is mis-led, or not taking into account town motives, or whatever you want to say, is an accurate and commonly held position nonetheless. 
I'm not advocating a lynch of him or even increased pressure as of yet. I'm just waiting to see how he responds. I want to watch how all players react now to find SCUM.

UNVOTE.
For now I'll unvote if it makes you happy. 

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Hall of Fame Upcoming
Thanks for the announcement Supa! I'll also take this time to announce that the MEEP I hinted at is right around the corner. It will hopefully be up fairly soon after the HoF is finished. I'm extremely pleased with how it is turning out, and I think most everyone on DART will be too. 
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destitution mafia DP1
I have a hard time grasping how the bolded above wouldn't be more of a priority than poly here... If there is scum in the mix, the wagoners should be much more suspicious here. 

I'm waiting for Poly's response before I shift pressure.
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destitution mafia DP1
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@Lunatic


The reaction just comes off as defensive because poly pointed out a "slip" that literally anyone else would have pointed out if they were online. This morning I was catching up and saw the same thing and thought the same thing as poly before I even read his reaction to you. 
What bothered me about Poly was not that he questioned my typo, it was that he blatantly contradicted himself while doing so and introduced arguments that were so loosely based on reality it genuinely appears as though he is purposely misrepresenting everything I do in order to start a wagon.

First, he says I am SCUM because I am overly worried about my lynch... That was an obvious twist on reality. All I did was contradict my initial wagon narrative. If mere contradiction constitutes anxiety, that's news to me. Then, he contradicts his initial argument by talking about my careless typo. After that, he falsely asserts (and he is still maintaining) that I claimed there is a TRACKER outright, and because of my skimming the DP and missing that everyone is a vig, I am SCUM. He isn't just lying, he is once again being inconsistent. Isn't it obvious how this goes against his previous statement? Like I said before,  shouldn't that indicate me as TOWN, the fact I wasn't overly concerned about claiming and I didn't realize everyone in TOWN was a vig and yet I claimed to be one?

Ultimately, it's clear he isn't thinking his argument through enough and is more worried about starting a wagon than actually being correct about who is SCUM. That's why I scum read him.

Is your thought process that mafia are in their communications saying "Let's throw out some random votes and see who bites!"? Generally mafia don't do that.
I think it's a perfectly viable strategy for SCUM to make a mountain out of a molehill, formulate a wagon and see if TOWN buys it. That happens all the time.




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