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@K_Michael
This site still has only a few members but it's growing. Although, that growth is slow. You'll likely end a conversation with someone you enjoy talking to. It will always get to some kind of resolution eventually. When that happens, you may not have anyone else to talk to. But, slowly a new member comes on worth talking and debating your ideas. If you still have meaningful debates and haven't reached that limit of.. i said everything i need to say.. on DDO.. then just use both sites. You'll likely find someone here you haven't reached that point with too however.
Seeing that you're Christian... i already know i have a question for you =)
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@Wrick-It-Ralph
If you got to the point of prediction
It is at this point so far, but not in any way i can control it. The events that trigger them are random, so i feel it's really hard to test it. Coincidentally, my uncle i golf with every weekend is a neurologist. I talk to him about this stuff all the time. He said the only way is if i wore some kind of brain scanner my whole life. I really don't feel like proving to others that much to do something like that lol. Plus, the most recent time i had this precognition was when his father died. I feel it's hurtful to tell people this, and i haven't been able to muster the courage to tell him (don't think i ever will). It's truly not events i'm looking forward to... But as to the brain scan... i think we need to know consciousness fully to make a correct assessment unless it's just clear.. which i doubt it's that easy.
Most things my parents told me were horribly wrong and were just popular idioms that didn't really hold truth.
This is really interesting to me bc i was the exact opposite. I remember events that my parents forgot... literally from ages 3 to 4. They later confirmed it when i reminded them. I had 4 "spiritual" experiences when i was anywhere between 5 to 8 years old. Of course, they can easily be mistaken as dreams or misplaced memories, logically. But, as soon as i was old enough to have rational thoughts... i looked back and thought, what i saw shouldn't have been possible... 2 of them, even if they were dreams don't make sense. It's just curious how different people are. I of course wrote them off as dreams or memory problems... but every time i doubted they were real, an experience happened. That's why my life's experiences are kinda weird. Every time i start doubting, something else would happen even more profound up to these one's i've shared. An interesting thing about my personality (or what i know now) is that i would never come to this reality not remembering. But who knows man... i'm at least glad you have critiqued my beliefs and opinions intelligently and respectfully. I had a feeling you would... i've gone over this stuff probably 100 times now... but few do so respectfully so i have to thank you for that.
I just want to expand on the memory thing for fun.. i've thought all this stuff through even if i'm totally wrong, but if i am going to assert it, there needs to be some kind of logic behind it. In regards to remembering, i think it depends on what experience you want to have here. Since it is a shared experience, you can remember at whatever level you want, but you can't prove it bc others don't want to remember. I feel i came here remembering to a degree that benefits myself. It's like if we chose to download into a zombie simulation. If you download into that experience fully knowing, well then, it's not much of an experience rather than just a fun shooter. However, if you download not knowing... you will have the full zombie experience. That's why i think everyone remembers to the degree they wanted to for their experience. Richard Hawkins wouldn't be who he is if he fully remembered. You wouldn't be who you are if you weren't you. I just think that's an interesting correlation... however, evolution also answers this. Darn natural explanations are always there.
I just remembered i was looking for the right time to ask you this. A source platform would fix certain paradoxes. Specifically infinite regress. If you are an ultimate mind that manifests into experiences... then infinite regress isn't a thing bc a source platform doesn't travel like time... time's linear. A mind is instantaneously where it chooses to be. I bring that up bc i remembered you said the cycle universe thing... i am interested in how you address that paradox.
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@Wrick-It-Ralph
Thank you for further explaining that... it actually sunk in much better this time. Okay, so i'm trying to think of what... in the metaphysical sense i can do this induction with. My profound experiences just happened. The healing one, that fuzzy feeling has happened twice. Therefore, i can say, at least, if i get hit with that fuzzy feeling again... it should be some kind of healing event. But, i'm assuming with just two times... it's not a very good case yet. And, since i can't control it... i'm assuming doesn't make a good case as far as inductions go. There is however an experience i have that has been consistent. Has happened every time before a specific event (an event that is emotionally tragic). So far, it's happened every time. I can't remember the exact count... but i can remember specific ones so i can say it's happened at least 6 times. Therefore, since these events will happen again in my future... this should happen again. So, i guess i can do an induction in that regard. But, i still don't see how this benefits anyone other than myself. If i turn 60 years old and say it's happened every time... it's only good for me. I'm sure you'd still doubt it.First Point.
This is where i'm finding a problem with doing induction for the metaphysical. How can it be useful for someone other than the observer? This is a problem with studying the metaphysical logically... how can we extend it to everyone other than the observer? If we presuppose that the platform can only interact through us... than, it's only the observer that gets the message. I don't know... i think that's a hard question to answer.
Abductive reasoning is all about finding the most likely conclusion. This is not what I do.
Oh okay, my bad... i didn't understand your inductive reasoning until now so that's probably why i made an error in how you're deducing these events. To be honest, i don't have much else for these events. If you're looking at it with that type of logic, then there isn't an answer i can give. I think i addressed why in the first post, so we can go from there in that regard.
It really depends on how seriously you take these beliefs.
I've changed my beliefs probably like 6 times (or more) now... actually, let me rephrase that, i've change the platforms that allow for my belief that many times. That platforms are the puzzle pieces. They should be subject to change bc i don't know what it is either... only time and knowledge will tell. Interestingly however, my belief itself hasn't changed since i was like 5 and i imagined i was on a space ship having a war with other spaceships (teleporting into another spaceship when mine was shot down). I was a weird kid bc i'm pretty sure i've never seen that but still imagined it. I really didn't feel i was from this world. I can imagine all types of stuff out of this world. But, imagination is imagination. I remember being on the school bus for the very first time going to kindergarten. In the back of the bus, two kids were bullying another kid by pulling his pants down and showing his privates to everyone. I remember being so frustrated that my powers didn't turn on. I was like, "why, why aren't my powers turning on... i can help him." I find all that curious as much as we can call that imagination. So, what i believe individually, hasn't changed. The only refutation to my belief is when the brain dies, your gone... But, that's really it. I acknowledge it could be true... however, there are so many other possibilities.
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@Wrick-It-Ralph
Induction is to observe something.
Okay. I understand now thanks. It's like i've never seen a house grown wings and fly therefore houses don't fly kinda thing. If i'm understanding correctly. But, if i truly did experience something supernatural (for the sake of argument), than my induction would be different right? Or, does induction only work with proof? Therefore everyone should be able to observe it kinda thing.
Well if it's 100% proven then not only will people kill themselves, but it would be justified to do so.
Yep. Lol. It's pretty wild. And, if you can think far enough ahead... the only time period we wouldn't do so is when we have it in this reality. I believe that time is when we can download into any simulation we want here. At that time, why kill yourself when you can do it here anyways? It's just a prediction.
It wouldn't give me any hope because I could never believe it.
That's fine. There is no reason for you to believe it if that's not what you believe. Everyone can't be like me or else this world would be pretty weird. And i really don't know you, but one thing i am going to just guess at... if i am right and you can be anything you want, anything you choose to be, anything you can imagine you can make real for you... wouldn't that be the best outcome as far as afterlives go?
As far as feelings go, that has a little to do with it. Intuition as well. What i 'knew' as a child is curious to me as well. Bc ever since i can remember i knew i'm not from this reality and that there are more. It has to do with my experiences, and it also has to do with some observations of the world. So, i wouldn't say it's only a feeling. I'm a skeptical guy... if that's all it was i wouldn't suspect it at all.
You're assuming that we need the whole picture to know about the parts of the whole.
No you don't. And, i'm not saying your deductions are necessarily wrong. It's just one sided. Trust me, i work in a law office.. i can twist any experience of a person any way i want. Someone threw a ball, hit the guys head, and he broke his neck. I can say, no, there is no way someone can throw a ball hard enough for him to fall a break his neck. He had to push him. Or, it wasn't even him... someone threw it out of a car which then would have enough force for him to fall over. When the truth simply was he was off balance when the ball hit him and he broke his neck falling. That's what you're doing. You are attributing a lot of logical scenarios to an event that happened in one way. Which is right? They all could be. They're all logical. But, i get it too... it's only the person that threw the ball that knows exactly what happened. It's anecdotal. Therefore, you will be able to pick it apart however you like. And i know i can't convince you, i'm okay with that. I'm just sharing these to at least hopefully make you think.
I believe that you experienced those things, but that doesn't make them true.
Yes. They are only true to me. You are looking for a scientific explanation or proof... i can't give you that. All i know is what i saw and experienced. I have to go with that... and, i hope you at least realize i'm trying to be reasonable. If i wasn't, this would be a mess... i'd be saying i'm Jesus or something for healing that guy. That's not how i see it. I acknowledge there are natural explanations, but i have to also acknowledge there are unexplained explanations too. Bc i can say the same thing to you... just bc you didn't experience it, doesn't make your deductions true either. Actually, in these cases i'm more of an expert to give an opinion than you are... i'm not saying that in any way to be disrespectful or boast... but if i am looking at them with as little bias as i can muster... it still doesn't defeat the fact they happened. And, i've conceded sure there are natural explanations, bc i've looked into them... but, i also am saying in certain cases... i'm forcing the natural explanations bc i know what i saw and it was unexplained. This is primarily why i'm agnostic. I am not saying it's a fact, i'm just saying... it's enough for me to suspect and lean towards the there is at the very least unexplained phenomena.
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@Castin
I think you'll find this interesting. This guy is a really good at what he does... he had 20 other videos youtube keeps taking down. He's a beast in analyzing criminal minds and interrogation.
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@Wrick-It-Ralph
You say you're not jumping to conclusions
I'm trying hard to help you get this... bc i understand how you're seeing it bc i'm skeptical of claims too. I wasn't thinking about the dreams, they only made me curious to go. I didn't think anything of them when i was there. And, as for the experience happening, i wasn't thinking anything other than... no way this will happen. I was in disbelief the whole time. I heard the voice clearly, that spooked me bc i've never heard something like that. The feeling of fuzzyness... i only realized after that i've had it before... in the moment, i was thinking what is this.
When the experience was happening, your are not thinking supernatural or natural... you're just thinking wtf is going on. It was only after the experience was done, i started analyzing it. During the experience... everything was weird but i really didn't think much of it... but hell yeah i was spooked at the last moment. You had to see it. Everything happened perfectly. From the moment that fuzzy thing i felt the whole time, disappearing from my body to him and the breath of relief exactly as it left my hand. But, still i didn't think natural or supernatural at that moment. I literally just jumped up and down thinking "no fcking way." The next day i pieced it all together, and just a little after... i was in shock when it happened. And yes, the next day i realized there are natural explanations, and there is the experience itself as a whole. Logically, yes... natural ones are more likely. But as i'm saying... what was everything else that happened perfectly? I have to question that too just bc of what happened as a whole.
And, the reason i'm sharing the necklace one is bc it's more profound than this one. I purposefully shared this above one first bc there are more natural explanations so it's easier to critique. However, the above one is still profound when you look at how many things needed to happen for the experience to happen. Even if it was all natural... that is still a lottery of coincidences. The necklace one is less bc i was trying to prove it wrong, and it literally spat in my face. The natural explanations are even less for that one... but there still there. Unconsciously spinning it, some kind of energy released from my body (but i was thinking that which is why i demanded directional commands)... It left me in another shocked state.
I have two others that have left me in a shocked state. So, why am i so lucky with these coincidences? Honestly... all i can conclude in the end is that i have some kind of mental illness that i'm not aware of... although a friend can corroborate the necklace one which further spits in my face that i can't even call myself delusional bc i would without that. I just don't know. It's hard to explain it to you bc it's a life of experiences... and almost every time i doubted it would happen. Mind you... i was not spiritual or even believed in stuff other than death metal and black metal are god at these points in life... these brought me back to remember what i knew as a child... which is further weird how life events line up this way. You can even call that confirmation bias and many other things... but i don't understand why we have to label them only what we're comfortable with... we really don't know. We're just making up words to explain events we're not comfortable to call them as they are. That's how it feels like to me personally experiencing weird stuff. Everyone is trying to take it piece by piece and say it's this or that... but that's just not how it happened. I can take anything piece by piece and label it something other than what it was.
And as to the other people telling spiritual stories. I think 99% of them that are on T.V. or these people claiming things are just doing it for money. I've sorta been obsessed with finding other people's stories of experiences. Bc i don't want to think i'm the only one this confused over weird stuff. You'll find interesting stories in comments on videos of people claiming things... you have to look for people that have no reason to lie. In my opinion, most of them have no reason to lie at least. Some do of course for attention... but i think some are being truthful. It's enough to make me think.
Because you're right... numbers don't matter here. But you have to understand how i'm seeing it. Out of all these claims... only "one" has to be true. Just one. If only one happened in a supernatural way... then the implication of that one is truly wild. I respect if you think none of them is true... that they are all fake or delusion or something natural... i respect that, but i also respectively disagree in that it is enough to peak my curiosity at the very least. At the most, i would say there is evidence to suspect there is something more going on.
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@Wrick-It-Ralph
However, at the moment we don't have enough information so without having that information
I agree here and that i'm making a hypothetical. I guess i don't understand what you mean by your induction reasoning... haven't taken philosophy or logic classes in some time. So, can you please explain what you mean so i can see where you are coming from.
Why shouldn't they? If the new reality is so much better than wouldn't it be immoral to force people to stay in this world of suffering?
That's exactly what i mean... we can't know the truth 100%. I only have a suspicion my belief could be true. If i knew 100%, right... i probably wouldn't be here either. So, i'm not going to kill myself over a suspicion. I mean look at some cases of people being 100% sure, even when they can't be since i agree there is no proof... they still killed themselves. Imagine what would happen if it's proven 100% without doubt... especially my belief. Other beliefs still have punishment for suicide and the like... mine doesn't. Death is just an off switch from this reality with infinite realities facing you after.
Hinduism has it's advantage from theoretical stand point because it's foundation is built on a very flexible concept.
I want to get this out of the way real fast... i'm not religious in the slightest. I think religion is other people's beliefs, not mine. I have a very specific belief for myself and all i'm doing is looking for platforms that allow for it. I've never heard of a religion that has my exact belief, as far as i know. But, some have platforms that allow for it... but, i don't care for their teachings (mostly). I only care about the platform. Simulation theory even gives me my belief. So, for me at least, interestingly, there are a lot of platforms that allow for my specific belief. I'm just choosing one bc it sums them all up into the source idea. So this source platform is just an extension of what would allow for my belief... basically i'm saying, i've philosophized this platform. I'm aware i've made it up... but, it's made up to answer for what i intuitively feel could be true for me. Also, it answers everyone else's hopes too which is why i like it most. It's for me, but also for everyone.
We don't know which tools to use, and we don't know how it fits into or is necessary for our model of reality.
I always use an analogy for this. The metaphysical has one picture. You can buy a puzzle piece that makes that picture. Currently, we are looking for that one picture with thousands of other picture puzzle pieces thrown into it... it's a mess. How can you find the one picture with some many random pieces thrown into it... that's why i'm not religious. I think a lot of humans have corrupted the board bc that's the nature... but, also it's brilliant bc we can't know... see above reasoning. That's why i'm telling you my opinion that we aren't even close to figuring out metaphysical phenomena. We have religious scholars... do you know what that means... we have people that have spent almost all their lives using random puzzle pieces to make the true picture... their whole lives on something that i would say is clearly not the truth. How can we fix this mess? Only way is to get serious about figuring it out together, scientifically minded, ruling out the ones that make less sense and finding the correct puzzle pieces. We're worlds away from that right now... our world is a mess in more than one way. But there is the hope that from chaos, you will rise up even stronger once you figure out how to defeat that chaos.
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@Wrick-It-Ralph
I just realized one other thing... i didn't think afterwards he was dying. My other experience with this feeling wasn't a dying experience either, rather it seems whatever that feeling was speed up a healing process. So, after when i put two and two together, that's what i thought could have happened if it was supernatural. Somehow, the healing process was speed up... which seemed to be the case. This is important bc i wouldn't have came to this conclusion if i didn't think of the supernatural explanations. Just as there are many natural explanations, there isn't just one supernatural explanation either. There could be many. But, if i simply ignore the supernatural side... i wouldn't be able to critically think of it. Which again comes back to why should i ignore that explanation for the sake of convenience... which is the key point here.Well bad sign doesn't mean dying on the spot and sometimes people just vomit blood and then stop.
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@Wrick-It-Ralph
Oh one other thing, experience wise, it seems to me you are picking it a part piece by piece. But, that's not the case. They happen in a larger sense. It's the whole experience together that makes it curious. If it was something like i thought of a friend and they called me... sure, throw that out the window for coincidence. It's easier that way... but the easy explanation for these ones isn't quite easy. It seems i am forcing a natural explanation for the sake of convenience. And the bigger question to me isn't just my experiences... it's that millions report experiences like mine or even more profound. I can't with a straight face say that there is nothing to it other than mistake, lying, delusion... etc. Those are all just one explanation. I don't understand why we can't take them for what they are and say... okay, there is that too.
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@Wrick-It-Ralph
Since corporeal has a 100% induction rate and Non corporeal has a 0% induction rate
I still don't get how you know this off of our current knowledge. Only so many percent of our observable universe is observable. There is a large portion of it that we still have no clue about. Dark energy/matter... could they be incorporeal phenomena? We don't know. They seem it thought don't they? All around us but we can see it or detect it. I'm not saying they are however. Dark matter could be so small or move so fast we can't see it, etc... but, what i'm saying is we don't know enough to deduce 100% corporeal. I wouldn't be surprised if everything is corporeal... it should be even within the source platform... i'm just saying we don't know enough. Plus, there are millions of people that report spiritual experiences. I don't think those should be counted out of the equation just bc we don't have a way to test for them. Bc... even if 90% are lying... the 10% that are not is significant. So i wouldn't put incorporeal at 0%. Even if it's 1%, that still is something.
Even if we had proof of a heaven, we'd probably be incredulous enough not to waste our guaranteed life on earth.
I disagree with you. You have to fully get my belief. I believe i can be "anything" i can imagine after death. This reality or even a vampire if i want. Anything. If this belief is applied to everyone else, than they can also be anything. If they had 100% proof of this... without a shadow of a doubt, when you die you can be anything... it's much different than heaven. Heaven is just one place for eternity. IF that was proven... i would even wait bc that's not very attractive. But... to be able to be anything? I can see families gathering around the table saying, "well, this sucks... lets just reset as billionaires. Same moment, same reality... but with a billion dollars and a castle. That is the implications of my belief if applied to everyone. I have no doubt everyone would kill themselves if they knew it is true 100%. And, i'm not even saying everyone would... but i'm saying this world would be pretty empty for the ones that stay...
aven't you ever heard of Rupert sheldrake
Yes, i've heard of him. Interesting guy. That's why i kinda toned back my comment about no one studying it. However, i'm still of the opinion we don't have a viable way to test for it. In regards to the east, i mean they have a lot more philosopher types looking into Consciousness. it's sorta their religion over there... but the good thing about stuff like Hinduism is that it grows with the times, at least, it seems like it. Listen to Sadhguru, another interesting guy if you haven't heard of him; he speaks very modern. In that regard, they're doing more than the west. They just have more people interested. Scientifically, i think they're on similar playing grounds for their research is for money too. I mean, money rules the world currently. So it's hard to study things of this nature that's just for knowledge. I'm not saying anymore no one does it, but it is no where near large enough to move as fast as say technology has invested in it.
I'm a little troubled that you're so quick to jump to the supernatural when you haven't ruled out all of the more likely solutions first?
See, this is the trouble i always get when i explain what i've witnessed and i understand... you weren't there or me. Firstly, i do not jump to conclusions. I always doubt this stuff is real and it will happen... in my mind i think, "no way." In regards to the Vegas one. There is a whole lot of feelings, circumstances, a progression to the experience that happened perfectly that lead to it. It's hard not to think supernatural first when you go through that. It's insanely unlikely that all of that lines up perfectly in order for what happened to happen. After, i did think of it logically. I'm being honest that i don't jump... i try to think critically of it. But what you need to get... even if i say all of it was a coincidence, it still doesn't erase everything i felt, went through, the exact moment things happened, leading to the experience, the stuff within the experience, leading to the end, perfectly. I also can't ignore that for the sake of making others comfortable that i fully believe it's natural. Of course, i'll concede it can be, but i'll also say... well, it could be otherwise. And btw, i did stay up for quite some time monitoring my friend. I shook him a couple times to make sure he's okay. He eventually got annoyed of me waking him up saying he's fine every time. I didn't just think "wow, i healed him." I was careful.
In regards to the second experience i shared, bc my other profound experience had to do with sounds, this one is a little harder to come up with natural explanations. Bc as i was telling you... before i even started to have him give commands... i made sure there was no trickery. Looked at there hands, told them not to touch me, watched the natural spin for like 1 to 2 minutes to see how it reacts to me holding it, told them what distance to stand, and held my wrist with one hand and rested my elbows on my legs to kill any extra movement. I was truly doubtful and wanted to prove this kid wrong. Bc he was telling me impossible stories. He feels the "entity" is dark, it's out to get him, hits his clothing and makes loud bangs, basically scares him. I truly wanted to prove him wrong. But then what transpired was just not possible. Obviously it was since it happened. But i can't think of any other logical explanation other than me doing something when i know i didn't... i have to force a natural explanation onto this one. And, i think interestingly (in a dark way), there was another friend i had that had similar visions he was telling me and the next day he died. Does it have something to do with them being close to death? I don't know.
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@n8nrgmi
What Grey said... who writes their own books nowadays? Probably like 10% of writers maybe... everyone got them that ghostwriter.
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@Wrick-It-Ralph
I reject solipsism outright, so this is a point of contention for us.
I don't really say it's not possible, but i reject it too. I was just saying if i'm the only one that has metaphysical experiences... then that's just one conclusion i can make... others being i'm god or Jesus, or the head of the matrix... i don't believe any of that bc i've used some thought to rule them out. I wouldn't have a collective type platform if i didn't believe we are a collective. I'd like to hear your reason for rejecting it if you'd like to tell me, i simply reject it bc there is death. If Solipsism is true, the one who dies and becomes alone over and over again would go mad. Imagine being infinite and alone... terrifying after you've been with others. Therefore, if it's true... i don't see why it wouldn't be lost within thought after thought and never die. It can simply do that by imaging it's immortal in a reality it can download into any simulation it wants with others and never have to die and know it's alone.
I would say that jumping to the supernatural conclusions in that situation would be unjustified since I could think of it least one or two ways to explain what you experienced via the natural.
He wasn't just vomiting... he was vomiting blood. I talked to family members that are doctors and they said most cases is poisoning and a bad sign. They usually have to see a doctor or go to the hospital... which makes this experience a little more of a trip. But, it's not impossible which is why i said, fine, rule it out and it was natural. And, fine... rule out the dreams too. It still doesn't explain the voice, the feelings, that whatever feeling, sucking into him and him healing exact moment. But, of course... we can even say those were an illusion and just coincidence. But, the whole thing still happened. And taken as a whole... that's like 6 and more coincidence that needed to happen exactly how they happened for the coincidence to unfold. Not only that, add the only other time i've had that fuzzy feeling is in another healing moment, which was more profound than this one... but even that one i could just say everything was coincidence. And trust me i have. But, i've honestly won the coincidence lottery. Like i said, this is just one about a dozen experiences i've had. I really don't know what to think at this point. Am i just that lucky? Or is there something to it? I really can't know either way (but i do acknowledge the natural explanations as much as they ignore what actually happened). Plus, the next experience was object manipulation in front of me - even weirder. The kid telling the object to spin, happened to die after this event which is important bc he thought he would bc of the "evil something there."
Long story short, the kid said his house is haunted, i didn't believe him, took off my necklace and said tell it to spin it. I held it for 5 minutes before to see the natural spin (bc i was skeptical) then said go. He said spin it right, it violently spun right to the point it was hitting my nails (i was still skeptical), told him to say stop, said it, it stopped, said tell it to go left, he said left... hit my nails going left - dropped bc i freaked out. That's another i usually share here bc it's pretty profound. Natural explanations, i spun it unconsciously. However, in order to have... my wrist needed to move for it to spin that hard... i know i wasn't and was critically looking for everything. Was it their breath? No, couldn't be for that hard of a spin. Anything in their hands to trick me? No. If it goes right all the time, should be impossible to stop on demand, then go left on demand (which is why i tested that). I'm stumped. Only natural explanation in that case was that i spun it unconsciously, but i know i didn't move bc i was watching my own hands too. So again, another experience that i can say there is a natural explanation (a little more trippy for this one however but still there) but still the experience happened. Looking at it as a whole... i'm just confused why me? In the end of the day... i keep asking that, why me? There was another person there that can corroborate it happened, so i didn't imagine it... i'm just left asking is there something more to these experiences. I really don't know. All i know is that i've experienced some weird stuff throughout my life. I further ask, "if" it is metaphysical... which ones would make the most sense to explain these.
An interesting implication of the source platform is that i've created myself here knowing the experience (like a movie)... that can be one answer too. It's my favorite bc it answers these experiences i've had, plus it also correlates to our science as well... i'm sure similar to your observations of collective consciousness. I always say i'm not sure, but find this one to be most accurate so far. Plus, i've noticed most people that dive into understanding consciousness (eastern philosophies) have realized a platform like this too. That further peaked my interest. But honestly, i don't really care about the platform that much... bc multiple platforms can give me what i believe in my OP. This is just one of them i feel is most accurate currently.
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@Wrick-It-Ralph
So I would then ask if the opposite is impossible.
Well, what is the opposite for you to say it's possible? The opposite being this all just happened naturally? How do we know that? I don't think we have enough knowledge to say either or is possible or not possible. Quantum physics is basically spitting in the face of all the other sciences since they will mostly concede that it's weird at least. We haven't figured out reality to enough degree to know if there is a metaphysical element or if it's just natural. I actually do think it's all (or mostly at least) natural however. I think we will go far. We'll just have to see where the future leads. It's way too early to tell.
I have a prediction with this specific platform however. I don't think we can know of its existence until this earth is so good that people will finish their time here over killing themselves. The implications of such a platform has no consequences other than what you believe will happen. I think if we knew this now... everyone / most everyone would kill themselves. So it's kinda not necessary now... but it will be in the future. Think of it like this illustration i learned. In the past, what mattered was strength and muscles. If you had it, you were the top dogs. Praised by everyone. Today, they are manual workers. Technology has made them irrelevant. What we value today is intellect. The ones with intellect will rise and society praises them. Technology will soon make intellect irrelevant. What will matter then? I think looking within, but it will keep going on and on. Once our tech does all our work for us, it will be a great day bc humans will finally be able to be humans. And, that will continue to go forward. In that far future, i think we will be ready for metaphysical answers... and probably, have to wait that long to find the right way to find the answers anyways. If we can't figure our own reality out fully... how can we even begin to understand an infinite consciousness? But along the way, when we've likely fully integrated with robots and can download into any simulation we want... we may know then, but even if we don't know then... we will have created it here.
what tools would you suppose that we use and why are we justified to go beyond normal skepticism and make metaphysical claims?
I may have said that a little incorrectly bc there are eastern people really diving into consciousness. I think they have a way better understanding of certain things than the West. The west is all about money. Things that get results and make money. Not let's find out if their is higher intelligences... that wouldn't get funded. That's what i mean, we aren't even really looking. Some most def. are... but our science is to get results for future technology. Which isn't bad, it's just not looking in the right place. What i know of my experiences, they are not repeatable. So our current scientific method isn't the right tool. That's all i know. What would be the right tool i have no clue. Maybe studying people that have been going within themselves... some yogis and mystics have been meditating in one spot most their lives. What have they found? What's going on in their brains? That's just an idea. All i know is a repeatable test is for repeatable phenomena in our reality. All my experiences i've had were random and i can't control it... however, before every tragedy that has effected me, i've had an experience. This is an ongoing test on myself, maybe i shouldn't even say it, but it's been perfectly accurate so far. And i do think like a skeptic so it's not just little things that can be mistaken... although one could say what they are is coincidence, but since they've happened before everyone so far... i can't ignore that consistency. But how do you test that claim... i don't know. Have some kind of neuro-link on people like me to see what happens... i would have to where it all my life, but that's an idea. Ultimately, we need to treat the metaphysical as something separate than the psychical bc just be definition it is. You can't use the same tools for one to find results for the other. Oh, and i do acknowledge science is humble. Actually, what usually sticks in my mind is when scientists say there is no god... but i think they mean it in a religious sense. Maybe if i sat down with them they'd be humble enough to say who knows. So maybe i'm just mistaken it that way. But it is pretty clear they aren't looking for metaphysical stuff in the west with as much zeal as they do in stuff that makes money. And if in the physical we know whatever they say only 5% of our world... i would say even less for metaphysical phenomena.
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@Greyparrot
It's a good thing indoctrinated political science hacks don't choose who gets to be president.
Yeah, but if it was them picking we would be in a slightly better position bc it would mean finally the people get to pick presidents. Right now, only the 1% can pick presidential candidates. We can't get anything done until we can pick who we want running the country for us... not the 1%'s interests. Tweedism is what it's called currently if i remember correctly.
On this topic however... i agree with all you guys. Who are these so called experts? And why is Trump triggering them so badly? Honestly, one reason i hope he loses is bc Trumps the type to get out of office and write a book about his whole time as president... that book would make so so much money... i can't wait to read it.
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@Wrick-It-Ralph
I'll tell you a more recent experience for context of what i mean by experiences.
It all started with dreams. I was having re-occurring dreams i was in vegas looking for something. Very annoying dreams bc i couldn't find what and i would wake up. At the end of the year, a friend asked me to go to vegas on a tour bus with others. Normally, 100% of the time i would have said no. But this time, i was curious about the dreams so i went. First day there was very weird. I just felt awkward and had a feeling that day just wasn't right but i still had fun anyways. Toward the end of the night i was in a room playing piano (cool room btw). Than all of the sudden i felt just off. My friend ran up to me and said we need to go back to our room. Got there, everyone was crying. Friend in the bathroom was throwing up blood. I counted it every 3-5 minutes. Some stuff happened in bw (mainly who will take him to the hospital and calling hotel personnel up), but as soon as it was decided he needed to go to the hospital, i got hit with two things simultaneously. One, i heard a voice (i never do btw) clearly say, "tell everyone to leave you can heal him" and hit with a fuzzy feeling that's hard to describe. It feels like there is a fuzzy energy radiating from my body. So i told everyone to leave. And sat there confused, the whole time having that fuzzy feeling too. He threw up again, i waited... he threw up again. So, i thought if this doesn't work i gotta take him now. I put my hand on his head, that fuzzy feeling felt like it drained from my feet to the last of it leaving my fingers into my friend, and again at the exact moment the last of it left my finger tip to him, he breathed a breathe of relief and smiled. Before that his facial expressions were all in pain.
Now, of course i've critically thought of this... i have all my experiences (3 of the other ones on the same level of profoundness - ask me if you want to know). Real quick, i define them profound bc they had more than 1 or 2 coincidences that had to happen... this one has like 6 or more. So my critical thought obviously is he healed on his own. But even if that is the case, what is all the other stuff before it? Did i know this exact moment a year in advance? But going off coincidence alone... the way things fell into place i would say is pretty crazy. And if i did heal him... then just wow. And btw, i realized after this experience i've had that fuzzy feeling one other time before, and in that experience, it was a healing one too. That is one of my other profound ones, but i never share that one. It's too personal.
So, not only have i had experiences to this level, i've had more than a dozen other experiences of precognition. I can't control them, i don't know when they happen, but i do know what should trigger them... although, those don't have a timeline either. So, basically... it's not testable. For someone like me to ignore that i've had these is hard; it's even harder sharing them in person. I share them here bc if you call me deluded i really don't care, but i assure you i'm not. I truly have been searching for answers to these my whole life (why it's a curse - it's always on your mind). So another thing a source platform answers is not only why i had the experiences but also why it's rare and only a few can posses this unlucky lottery. That is why i truly think there is evidence. Now, a lot of it is muddied bc humans are petty greedy creatures, but only one has to be true for the implications to be wild, i've had one... and i'm sure someone else out there has too. At least i hope so bc i truly don't want to start pondering solipsism bc that scares the crap out of me. But if i am the only one... that's one logical conclusion i would have to make.
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@Wrick-It-Ralph
My only real problem with being incorporeal would be if it was define as being non interactive
Okay, than maybe i can concede it could be a little of both corporeal and incorporeal. Or, it could just be incorporeal and the only way it can interact with this world is through us. If it's a little of both, since we are talking about consciousness at an infinite level... that would just be stupid intelligence, maybe it's figured out a way to interact. It isn't inconceivable that would be something it can do. That's why i favor infinite consciousness type platforms (i'll call source from now on for ease). Bc in such a platform, it would be a little of both, or maybe just physical, i really don't know. I think speculating on the exact parts of a source is hard. To me, it's not inconceivable that it hasn't figured it out. What i do know, if i use my experiences as evidence, whatever it is can interact through me at the very least, as far of knowledge i have.
That also means that it could ultimately be detected with the best possible technology.
This is good bc it will also address some of your other questions. I understand how you'd rather stay skeptical until there is evidence, but what scientists are calling evidence presently doesn't even scratch the surface of metaphysics. What they are doing is using material tools to prove material things. Imagine someone asks for a grant bc "it's good for humanity to just know," they'd be laughed out of the room. Currently, humans only value material gains that will give results and most importantly, money. We haven't begun to try and understand the metaphysical. When i here there is no proof, i kinda laugh inside. Not only have we not begun even trying to look, it's only been a couple generations we have profound scientific understanding. It's seriously just human nature trying to be the best and smartest, but honestly, i find it the height of arrogance for them to say something isn't true. So image, you're stopping at the physical bc you'd rather believe current dogma over just saying "screw it you don't know Mr. scientist." I'm not saying your stuck in it in anyway nor being disrespectful. I'm just saying, just think to yourself why do you believe these people's definition of evidence and, isn't it just material evidence? How can you get metaphysical answers through material methods?
Do you believe that we're in a simulation?
Of sorts. Not a computer simulation. Now, understand all these other ones i'm not saying aren't possible, i've just chosen to pick this source platform. Let me explain the source platform through an analogy i've learned. Imagine everything was infinite sand. Everything in this sand exists right? What i mean is, if i build a sandcastle and that sandcastle collapses, it still exists in the sand. For it to be actualized and experience other castles it manifests as a physical sandcastle. However, when it collapses, it's still there but becomes one with the source it came from. That's how i see the source platform. It's more complicated than infinite sand bc this platform is an intelligence as well which comes with many implications. One implication being that we have individualized within this platform to experience. This i believe is the case bc the implications of solipsism. If it's the source choosing our experiences for us, then it's no different than it just knowing all the experiences. For it to truly experience is to allow us individual selves experience. Now, i don't think the source is a "who" rather just a platform. But i think the platform, since it's everything, already knows this and it just happens.
So, in regards to experiences, i've had more than i can remember now. Each time i lost hope they're real too. They kept getting more and more profound. Now, i'd love to share them... but let me know if you want full context bc i've shared them a lot on this site and quite frankly, it will be a couple more paragraphs if i do share them all.
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@Wrick-It-Ralph
Do you think your consciousness is ultimately physical or metaphysical?
I really don't know. What would make more sense for my belief to be true, is that my consciousness is incorporeal (i think that's what you mean by metaphysical). There are a whole bunch of platforms that would make this possible, mainly in the monism spectrum. All those (or most) platforms would give me what i believe too. These platforms also fit into your collective consciousness too. There are other platforms that give me my belief where i'm physical, matrix type stuff, and/or a platform where i'm a human somewhere else but i've chosen this simulation. However, here is my reasoning for why i don't think those platforms are true.
In those platforms, if i'm physical... i probably am also finite. If i am a finite being simulated into this reality, then i know 100% i wouldn't choose this reality based off who i am. If i have a finite time to watch movies or play video games... i'm going to play my favorites. That's a loose analogy bc i do watch some stuff i don't like... but, downloading into simulations is a lot different bc i know what i'm doing... playing realities until i die. I wouldn't bother playing this reality, however i would be here if i'm infinite. Now, if i'm infinite in a physical form... that can also be the case like matrix... but, then, i don't see any difference bw if the platform is corporeal or incorporeal. It basically be the same thing. However, being incorporeal kinda fits better into being infinite... it's just a logical guess.
I've heard of your collective consciousness belief and it seems to be backed up by some science. However, i don't understand why you stop at just here, or a cycle of this reality. This reality could be just one of either many or infinite. In monisitic type platforms, we are a collective too, however, there is a source consciousness behind it that is everything... i think even that has some scientific correlations too.. but mainly in the form of collective consciousness. I just don't understand why you would be hesitant to make that jump.
It could be just who i am. As far back as i can remember as a child, i "knew" i'm not from this reality. I lost that child for awhile, but i'm starting to get back to him. He was a smart little turd. But, it's not only these memories that have steered me to what i believe... i've had multiple "spiritual" experiences that seem to line up with what i believe too. Now, i can't directly correlate them but they do give me clues such as precognition type experiences. So, i'm working with the best evidence i have so far to make this tentative conclusion. If it was "only" a collective consciousness, it wouldn't make sense of all my experiences.
I believe there is a "self" that has always been you... a self that has been consistent throughout the years and hasn't changed. I think that self will continue after death. Not your identity...etc. Things that have been created here. I think you can tap into remembering this experience, but as an outside observer. So, i believe i have a true self in that sense. Does everyone... i have no clue (and don't really care). But it would fit into the platforms if they did. I say i don't care, bc everyone's experience is their own. Just like i can't figure out why someone would drink their own urine to stay young... i really don't want to try and figure out everyone's afterlife the same. I have no clue why people do what they do, or what they are to the platforms. All i know is in an infinite consciousness type platform... every type should exist and that's what it seems i'm looking at.
Btw... i'm at work so i didn't have time to read back or make sure i'm using words carefully.. so that's that. Let me know you questions or if you want me to elaborate on anything.
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@RationalMadman
You don't know the half of Briggs' test... Have you ever studied it in a psychological sense? I urge you to research it bc it is much deeper than you're making it out to be. Especially now, that there are sites that allow you to agree or disagree with a scale. The original test is different bc it's only yes / no questions... but it has grown as we have grown. The blueprint is however genius. One would have to know the test really well to be able to manipulate it (i recommend taking a few times before you learn it). But, the results aren't a simple your this or that... you're a combination of the results (which is why it gives percentages). Plus, what that test does brilliantly is describe the more rare people in the world. It's actually more detailed on the rare people than the majority. It's just a test, so it's not perfect... but as it comes to tests, it's one of the best bc it has professional psychologist and the like working on it. These picture test aren't even close to that.. not trying to undermine something that works for you bc if it did, great. But, i've studied this test in 3 different pysch classes in it's pretty deep once you understand what's going on.
As to this test, my major issue is that it doesn't account for people like me. On the Briggs test, i'm mainly an INFJ (also a bit of INTJ and INFP) if you'd like to check that out (the most rare sign and less than 1% of the population). The test is probably made by marketing people so they aren't interested in the fringes. A lot of the questions didn't have my interests and other questions forced me to pick what i didn't want to. Like there was a basketball question i had to pick... but i had no idea what any of the brands were. That probably didn't count, but it's an example of what i ran into.
As to me seeming extrovert.... you will notice that is the only introverted sign (INFJ) that comes off as an extrovert, interestingly. Actually, it is said when you meet my type... you'll think i'm an extrovert, but that's far from the truth. Plus, you can't tell over the internet which i am. Extroversion and introversion are not something you can see... the main difference is internal. Think of it like a fighting game and the power bar. Extroverts increase their power bar when they are around people and decrease when alone, and introverts decease their power bar when they are around people, and increase when they are alone. That is distinction bw the two. Of course, bc of that... some other things come with it... like being by yourself translates to things like reading books and staying home and the opposite for extroverts (but that isn't always true). Of course you can be in the middle two, or a varying degree of percentages. I'm around 15-20% extrovert. This means every two weeks to a month i get an urge to be around people. I can fake it if i have to, but if it was up to me... those are the time frames. However, i can't stay out long and i can't do things like party and sleep at the persons house... i always have to get away. That's how i know i'm introvert and to what percent.
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@RationalMadman
92% openness
16% conscientiousness (wrong... i'm 50%.. it's on or off)
66% extrovert (Lol... more like 80% introvert... Briggs test is good for that)
34% agreeableness (also wrong... way higher)
12% neuroticism
The only one's right are the first and last... rest are wrong. A lot of choices i either didn't want to pick bc it didn't have mine, or i wanted press "none." But i had to pick on some of them. Other one's it was more than one... but really depending on the situation. Not catered to people like me... (where was the goth, metal, thrash?... they were looking at majority vs. minority.) Maybe better than the 10 question quizzes... but not good at all. I think it was a marketing ploy test... i wonder how many cookies it just downloaded onto my computer... whatever, just downloaded a software that melts cookies... so not worried. Thanks for the test anyways.
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@Alec
Yeah, but they probably don't share in your idea... remember, we would be sending sons and daughters to die. I don't think people care about Africa enough to do so... it's just our current reality.To me, an innocent human life is an innocent human life. I would rather have 100 Americans die then 1000 foreigners die if everything else is consistent. More Americans would benefit since the country profits off of natural resources.
China and Russia probably will get pissed.
They would be more than pissed. I'm sure they would do something about it. Bc we aren't talking about a country here... we're talking about a continent. I don't think they want America to have that much more power. Plus, we shouldn't want them to have more power either... we can't just be okay with Russia or China taking over countries and making it there own. So i don't know... i just don't think this would be as easy to play out as you're thinking.
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@secularmerlin
I have an interest in watching police interrogators interrogate criminals. There is a cool channel on Youtube called "Jim Can't Swim" i'd recommend checking out if you are interested in such things. He's really good at teachings techniques of deception and the like. He had more videos, but Youtube keeps pulling them down for some reason. It's the best interrogation analysis channel i've seen. Apart from that i've always been interested in criminal minds.
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@secularmerlin
I know i'm being a grammar nazi in a way... but psychopaths fit into this more. Sociopaths do care about some people.sociopaths
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@Wrick-It-Ralph
I believe (suspect more than not - i'm sorta agnostic) that my consciousness will survive death. You can ask me to define consciousness, but basically... that part of your self that has always been "you." The consistency throughout your life that hasn't changed. I can get into detail about that if you'd like. I believe that side is infinite. I believe i am a finite being and also an infinite being. However, i do not think i stay in the infinite state long. I believe i live and die... eternally. A movie analogy best describes this. This life is one movie, next will be another... and so forth (and what movie i play is up to me). Notice how i've said "i" this whole time... i really don't know about anyone else. However, everyone else does fit into the platforms that allow for this implication that i believe (i can describe that as well). Actually, i can describe all of this... if you can stump me, i'll change my belief. In total, that's what i believe and there are multiple platforms that allow for this. I just don't think the platforms are as important as the "i" part... knowing yourself is key in these platforms that people usually miss. It's either two options for me: Nothing happens (then i don't have to worry about it); or something happens... that something i believe is this.
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@keithprosser
Knew someone was going to post something about this... pretty cool news. I just wish we can see a clearer picture. Sometime in the future i bet we will. It'd be awesome to see it clear and in real time... it would look pretty awesome probably.
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@Stephen
Actually, i think that's true. I was talking to someone that knows the Koran quite well... i don't know if he got it from the Koran or just history... but, he was telling me something similar. It was suppose to work in small communities and bring them together. It's the infidel part of the Koran that throws a wrench in it. But, if you look at the Koran as a community... as in everyone in agreement with the Koran and in agreement with translation... that community is likely going to love each other and be very peaceful. It's once you add other humans to it that problems arise bc of course the Koran is flawed too. So, i don't know if in the bigger sense... that's what they hoped it would do as Keith describes. They probably just didn't anticipate humans aren't agreeable and will translate things differently. Again... bc they're flawed humans.was intended to forge unity aross a pan-arabian empire containing a wide variety of ethnicities and religions
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@disgusted
Maybe you can mediate on that one... i'm sure in 1000 years it'll come to you.I just don't get why Outy believes his self created beliefs when he knows he created them.
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@Snoopy
No. It all is contained in the fact that it's man-made. And bc it is, it's fallible. You have no clue that in 100 years those generations will start to think Jesus was wrong and that the old testament is much more serious. It also has the ability to turn good people into evil people. Even if those cases are smaller, it's bc it's flawed that it happens. Than there is the element of telling people they are powerless. This makes people into the perfect little slaves. That it's okay to bow down. That message is quite offensive. There should be no person or god we bow down to unless we meet them and establish enough respect to want to.
When it comes to Jesus' teachings, whatever. I'm a good person and i know that bc people tell me i'm a good person. I really don't need to read about someone else's story to figure that out. From what i've read, Jesus seems like a cool dude... I like anyone that stands up to something they see as corrupt and i like that part of his story. But it's nothing i can't figure out or buy at the book store in the form of ethics or moral books. But even than, i get to pick in the end of the day how i want to live. Whether it's good or bad. I like to live both and i find that completely moral. I do bad things, i do good things. So even Jesus' story isn't the full truth for everyone.
And, to tell other people they are going to hell bc they are a little bad or just bad... isn't something i think should be in the hearts of others. That creates humans that judge other humans. Who is to tell me i can't go out and dress like Satan to have an orgy? Everyone is consenting, and we're sharing love. Again, the Bible is flawed bc it's written by humans that found what they found to be good or bad. If two gay guys/girls want to use a 10 inch dildo on each other... what i say, "have freakin fun i'll see you tomorrow." Not... oh my, your going to hell if you don't repent... that's BS man-made opinions that further divides people into good or damned.
All religion does, well not all of them bc i have more respect for some than others, all Abrahmic religions do is divide and teach people to give up their power. I think that's poison. I obviously don't disagree with everything in the Bible... i just disagree that the religion isn't flawed. I don't even necessarily think it's a bad thing... the community and all that is great... but, it's flawed bc humans created it which is why these negatives will manifest.
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@Alec
So from what i'm getting you think this idea should be more popular. In total, you think more people will be happy and free in the long run if we can go in and basically clean things up. If that's the case, i guess that is a scenario which would be good so i'm not quite against it... but still, i don't think a war this big is just going to happen.
You brought up the money stuff, just wanted to make sure that's how you see it... which is kinda my next point. If we make money if they're doing better... i wonder what it is that's still keeping us from doing something like this.
I personally think it's bc it's too much to ask American's to die for... solution would be to get a lot more to care. And, i think it would piss off the other powers in this world. This i don't really have a solution for other than take those places over too. Or, just wait until they are all on the same page as America ... which i don't see happening anytime soon. I think that's the biggest hurdle to jump. Just bc the UN gets on board doesn't mean the rest will... even if it's just to spite us. Still, you figure out the two above, i think only then can we start talking about something like this.
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@TheRealNihilist
Wooh... RM's actually looks pretty good as an avatar. But anyways, i put his on bc you didn't fit the picture to frame the whole avatar borders. It needs to be a perfect fit.
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@TheRealNihilist
I'll use it once i get home so i can save it to my computer.
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@disgusted
Never said mine aren't... you're quite bad at understanding.
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@TheRealNihilist
I only see one... looks like you just added a little to the background.
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@Stephen
Malleable is just one element, i agree. I'm using it in the sense of "easily influenced." But i agree there is more to it than just that. Society needs to be build by someone. Either we make this a spiritual argument or just evolution based. Most people need to be this way in order to do the work needed. If the world was full of intellectuals... nothing would get done. However, this comes with pros and cons. A con being you can use these people for good or evil or just good and bad. Since i think the majority of people society gives power to aren't necessarily good... this reality is the result.I am not sure "malleable" is the right word it implies being forced into a belief.
The way i look at it is kinda like an analogy... bc i do think things always balance themselves out. For instance if this was a movie, a battle between Joker and Batman... right now in our reality, it's the Joker's time. He's thriving. But eventually, he should be beat. I think social media will be the catalyst for the better people (not necessarily good since i think pure good as just as rare as pure evil), but the better people can get a hold of things and balance things out. It's just a prediction, so we'll see.
But with social media and intelligence at our finger tips... the more detrimental beliefs will or should start cancelling out a bit. Same with bad ideas and people. Again, it all comes down to who controls the "malleable" side of the population and to what end. I mean, it's also conceivable that the Joker wins and we're just headed towards a reset, but i would say that's worst case scenario. I'm just curious how and in what form this change will happen. It all really comes down to knowledge and as the OP says, proving what is clearly "more" false than others as wrong. That's really all we can do. Bc no scientist or religious person has any clue to what this reality truly is. I mean, you can feed me plank length and infinite regress... but the way i see it, look up or into yourself... it's all infinite... that's pretty crazy. All we can do is make are best guess to what's wrong and try to fix it or grow.
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@oromagi
You're clearly not a good golfer which would make sense why you "don't get it." Entertainment in life is the most important thing. Being out in nature, being on your own, with another, meet new people, meet future business partners, play a precision sport that takes years to get good at, hit a ball 200+ yards with ease, watch the ball fly up into the the air, hear the smack it makes when it's a perfect hit, feel the wind through your hair, time the wind, know what direction and how hard it's blowing, know the greens, know the fairways, but most importantly... be around the most beautiful scenery that just takes you away from the world.
Humans are becoming addicts, phone obsessed, bullshit obsessed... bc they don't have shit to do. Go hate on that... not people that have found a hobbies they like. I would say spend all my tax dollars and everyone else's to make the world a hobby... give people shit to do. Instead of keeping them mindless slaves.
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@keithprosser
Good read. I don't get why anyone from the Abrahmic faiths can't see how human this all is... it took one Atheist such as yourself to explain similar chain of events and i was like... oh, shouldn't defend that anymore. And i was like 10. I just don't get it. It's so clearly man-made.
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@Alec
Lol... you really have a thing for Africa don't ya? Anyways, that was an interesting theory... but, religion is way more deep-rooted than that. You can make multiple theories. But one of the most obvious is that most people are very malleable... you can feed them anything. Promise them eternity in a place they get 72 virgins, or eternal "happiness" ... or, maybe charge them a couple thousand to see the last pages from our divine alien overlords, or even promise them their own planet... and, they'll follow. Plus, there's the whole indoctrination and believe or i'll kill you stuff too. It's deep, it's mind control. Unfortunately, at present still, people have a hard time thinking for themselves in a deeper sense. That's usually a rare quality. But even then... everything has its dogma. That's truly the hardest thing to escape... even for some deep thinkers.I personally think every religion that every god that ever existed is like a European colonial power and Earth is their Africa.
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@Stephen
God's like that because humans created it.warmongering psychotic and schizophrenic jealous god
Anyways... i wouldn't say you have a phobia. I don't think you would run out of a room just bc some religious person is there. My entire law firm, except me, are Christians. Honestly, i play it off pretty good... i feel like a little devil bc they think i agree. That's life. A phobic couldn't do that, and i think you would do better than me in the law office with all of your knowledge. Which second point, your well read. A phobic probably couldn't touch the Bible... i'm a little phobic in that sense that i feel weird walking into a church.
Bigot... well, why is that so bad? Intolerant to something fake that is controlling the minds and our world with such bs. What you said up there... the world find a psychopathic god to be the way... no wonder corporations are feeding us politicians that they agree with...Fck the people right? But people just eat up if one person says i'm "Christian." I think we kinda have a right to be intolerant of such a religion that dresses everyone wolf in sheep's clothing. Are you a bigot towards the people? I don't think so... i think you'd love to sit down and have a talk with someone that's one of these religions. Your temperament might be different than mine... bc i'll just end it saying "maybe you're right." Just not to piss someone off... i don't know you. But i suspect (in person) you'd do that. Over the internet, we just don't have to be that nice. But... if i catch one of the theists in another forum on a subject we agree... i'd talk to them fine. Haven't looked through you stuff... but i don't think you hold grudges. Except... some people are just trash, bc they're trash... not bc of their faith.
All in all... i don't think you are. I know i used myself a bit too, just to double down you know... so people don't think i'm hatin on them. But, from what i can tell... you ain't bad. I mean, i think i told you i favor spirituality and the platform and you really didn't care bc it didn't have baggage. I think you're just lambasting religions that deserve it. It's a good read... so keep doing you're thing.
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@RationalMadman
Yeah man... i have a hard taste to cater too. I don't change my pic often bc it took me forever to find this one where i liked everything about it. Like one picture out of 100 i looked through probably.
Edit: I liked all your pictures... but not over the one i have. Greyparrots i really would have considered tho... i like that one.
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@Alec
From there, the leader is forced to surrender sovereignty to the United States at gunpoint.
I just don't think the rest of the world would be okay with that at such a large scale you are purposing. It's already on the news and controversy when a country like ours invades just one place. I mean the middle east is almost a scam or inside job, bc the only way others are tolerating it is bc they are threatening us and attacked us. Africa hasn't done anything to us, or attacked us. When Russia said they are going after Ukraine was it? Can't remember, but you know... even then it was a controversy to the point we threatened them. In such a large scale your are saying, i don't think the rest of the world would be okay with that... plus, the rest of the world i'm sure is profiting off the warlords. I bet we are profiting off the warlords. So... i just can't see this going down unless we brand them terrorists and say they are going to attack us or something.
If we had to kill 10 million people (high estimate) and once the continent is ours
That's a lot of people dude.
This is not an explicit rule.
Just bc some adults are children and have no clue isn't a point here... they aren't children. That is a fact. If an adult as no clue... imagine how little a clue a kid has. Plus, they are highly malleable and easily influence. Sure... i can make a kid think he's playing call of duty in real life and god will bless him... sure, they'll know what they're doing and what they're fight for... but do they really? No. I can tell them the demons will attack us if you don't do it... and they'll believe it. Adults wouldn't. But you're not getting it... killing children will have an affect on our soldiers. Not all of them, i'm not even saying a lot... but i am saying a lot more than soldiers just fighting other adults.
If your left of center, you feel this way about Muslims. If your right of center, you think this way about the police.
I don't fall anywhere really. Actually, honestly... i fall wherever it helps the most people. So trust me, i'd love to cure suffering from the world. But, i honestly don't think this would work. There are too many things that can fail. Plus... i don't know if you really think this is going to happen or your just throwing a theory out there. I actually agree with you in regards to helping out people suffering i just don't think this way would work... "realistically" .. that's are divide bc hell yeah i think we can go in there and destroy shit and free the people... we're America. I just don't think it will ever happen. The world wouldn't allow it (i suspect), i don't even think America has this anywhere on their list of things to do. I don't think this world cares man. So realistically... at least presently and into some of the near future... i don't think this will happen or even be purposed to happen. I mean come on... a war to save people and give them freedom? Here i'll ask this bc i don't know and might change my mind in the timeline a little... is there any money we can make off this war? Any money that we aren't already getting by the way... If there is extra money to be made, maybe we'll start talking about it... if not, they don't exist. Yeah man... it's a fcked up world.
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@keithprosser
Perhaps religions aren't all that different. They are all based on the idea that events in the world are controlled by supernaural beings (ie gods)who can be influenced by performing ritual acts (religious practices). The psychology of Roman Catholicism isn't that much different from that of a cargo cult.
I honestly think one has to only look around this world. How many honest people are there? How many people are there that would take advantage of something for power and greed? I think people that corrupt things are a lot more. That's simply what is happening and why i sorta agree i'm an Omnist in that respect. The majority of it has a big fat turd on it bc humans are humans. But, that doesn't mean there aren't honest people too. I mean look at the world... it's just so clear to me. So when people ask me why i don't just "chose one" ... it's bc it's basically impossible that the majority turds didn't corrupt it. But that becomes the hard part and what everyone should do... look for the truth yourself. Don't trust one religion, spiritual teacher, scientists, anyone... Bc you will likely run into one human that wants power and greed and to make money off your dedication to them.
Edit: That's a bit pessimistic... you can, off your own judgement, find a person you think is being honest... they exist. But still, it's a doggy dog world.
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@secularmerlin
That's a fair thing to say... i'm okay with unexplainable. What i'm not okay with is that they are irrelevant bc it is evidence if it truly happens. It's just not something we have a means to test for. And, i'm saying "frustrated" loosely. I'm okay with anything that comes my way and quite calm the whole time. The frustration aspect is that everyone thinks your lying bc of the people that took a turd in the subject. I'm more frustrated out the human condition... not skeptics or atheist... i mean crap, even when i hear a story i'm skeptical of it bc i know how many people lie. So i understand.Just so we are clear I am not claiming that science can explain everything only that what science cannot e,plain we may have to accept as unexplainable.
As regard to your first paragraph, i would slightly disagree. I can't prove it to you, i agree there... but, i don't fully agree i can't make logical conclusions off my experiences. See, my experiences have spanned almost my whole life. I haven't had one in awhile, but i've also kinda drawn away from the world a bit. Taking a rest in that regard. However, i can make reasonable deductions from my experiences.
The Vegas one alone has many implications. If you don't remember it's my healing experience. Even if the healing part didn't happen and was just coincidence, i knew up until that moment something was going to happen. If it played out as it did, we can draw some conclusions at least for my own experience. The one i've chosen goes along with all other experiences, but this one is a good example. I created myself here (or some variation of this). If so, then i knew exactly what this experience will be. Therefore, having precognition like this makes sense. Of course, we can also say B-theory of time, i'm psychic, god told me about it... etc. But, in combination with all my other experiences, the one that makes most sense is the 'creating myself here.' Bc if i'm only psychic, then other experiences don't make sense... if it's this or that, other ones don't make sense. Now, i know this is a tentative conclusion i've made and can change... but so far, it answers my entire life spans worth of experiences.
But let's be clear... i am saying this only for myself. The problem is, i don't know anyone else's experience. And one other conclusion that would make sense is Solipsism and this is my reality. But, that ultimately also doesn't make sense either as much as that's not the case does. The thing is, multiple experiences like i've had are almost like a repeatable test science would have... so, i can kinda draw a good conclusion. But you are right in the end that it's still unexplained bc i don't know what will happen in the future, or how this can lead me somewhere else. But for myself at least... i have a good idea what works best. You can bring up alternatives if you like... i can explain why it's not that bc i've thought most of them through. This is why it's actually good most people don't experience like i have... bc it truly does become an obsession with figuring out what the heck is going on.
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@TheRealNihilist
Doubtful. He still thinks his holy book states his side even though he is making arguments which his holy book does not even mention.
Well, i hope to see a continued conversation. I think you are bringing up good points.
How do you explain the majority of the world population being Religious?
Just like the Bell curve example. It's like saying why is the majority of the population average IQ. However, with religion it's a little different, but sorta similar still. If you give people the chance, and they are willing... you can raise their level of awareness. I think most people just don't care. And a lot of them, if pressed and shown beliefs... they will change. My friend was Christian until he sat down and talked to me. All i had to do is tell him my paradise paradox and he got it. He's like... yeah, i find paradise to be an F-rate existence too. So, he heard me out and changed. So, i think a lot can change... but not the people on here mostly... they are stuck. Just like some people can never get 100 on an IQ test... they can never surpass their average level understanding. So, they'll defend it by making stuff up and trying to act like they have a 160 IQ... just like any person would do. So, of course you can move around on the curve with knowledge... but there are also some people that just can't. They'll never understand.
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@secularmerlin
Science has different goals and methods than spirituality. For example spirituality depends on anecdotal testimony as "evidence" while science dismisses anecdotal testimony as irrelevant and unreliable. Please do not falsely conflate the two.
However, in the end of the day, they are both evidence. I don't understand how you don't see it... why is it "science dismisses as irrelevant" important to you? Just bc scientists say so? The only reason they say it's irrelevant is bc it's not repeatable. But of course it's not. The only things that will be repeatable are things in this reality.. that's all science can test for with it's method currently. They should just say, "we don't have a method" not that it's irrelevant... how do they know? Have they ever met someone like myself?
See, that kinda annoys me and the heart of this question really is... there are humans that will do anything for power and greed. These humans will muddy the water in anything and everything, science, spirituality, politics, education, name it... there are more humans that will corrupt things than there are honest humans. This annoys me bc i'm not fucking around... I've freaking seen shit. I've experienced things that shouldn't have happened. I know i'm rare bc i've asked people all my life if they've experienced anything and i've still yet to meet anyone that didn't answer "well yeah this 'one' time" this happened. Although still impressive stories... i've lost count of my experiences.
But i understand how it's easy to write me off... frauds and people that have corrupted this are everywhere. It's easy to say i'm one too. But i'm not. I'm fairly reasonable, i admit my mistakes... but when you ask me how do i know? I've freaking experience stuff that lines up with "something." Now... i can do my best in trying to figure out which platform would answer it best... but i'm doing that off true experiences.
So, to tell me it's irrelevant is really frustrating but i get it. But, you also don't get that you are talking to something truly not messing around here. I'm not trying to boast, i'm not trying to say i'm special... i'm just saying, i'm a rare freaking person. It's not good either since it clearly messes with my mind. Imagine seeing crap that you can't tell anyone bc they'll think your delusional... that's how it feels. And, that's why i vent here. I'm just saying... until you look at anecdotal experience as evidence... you're just not going to see it.
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@TheRealNihilist
I don't see the point of making the forum post then.
I'm just saying... that's what he'll resort to. That you aren't doing it right. Plus, i just realized i've triggered him... 1) i've called him out; 2) i gave him an impossible question he ran from and i'm sure won't answer bc he can't... so, he may stop talking to you bc you're talking to me... i hope not, if so sorry lol.
I used a translation he agreed with and it stated nothing about God being non-contingent or self-sufficient.
And therein you'll see the deception... it doesn't matter. You don't know how to speak Arabic or know Arabic history as well as he does so you're wrong. This has a saying too: "pulling the wool over your eyes."
I think people like him are like that because they were indoctrinated into Religion at an early age.
I don't know if this is true. I was grown around religion, although i wasn't indoctrinated or preached to, but everyone seemed to love it. I associated it with love and defended it for a bit bc of that... until an atheist pointed out all the flaws and i was like "oh... yeah this is BS." There are some philosophical things i've seen explain this... people like you and i. One i read about is Spiral Dynamics. But that favors spiritual people a little in the end so it may not be attractive, but it's worth checking out bc some things are pretty true... and i like the test sense it has a lot of research behind it.
I personally look at it like a bell curve... like an IQ bell curve but different since it's more spiritual intelligence rather intelligence. I look at atheists on one end, religious in the average, and people that can see multiple spiritual truths or ultimate platforms that are viable without bias and to our current understanding... i think you start getting towards the "genius" end. I fancy myself on that end, although remember it's not saying i'm smart... if anything i'm extra delusional lol. But i can clearly see spiritual platforms and rank them to the ones that are viable and actually seem to have evidence for. But, as you will also see... most of the "follower" type religions fall into the average. Just like IQ, there are a lot of them... which seems to correlate with reality. And similar to IQ... they will just never understand what a 140 IQ person see's if their IQ is 90. So, that's how i see it... i think it goes a little further than just indoctrination.
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@TheRealNihilist
Only a person that can speak Arabic can go to their god basically (the rest of us be damned). That's the reply you'll get all the time. You don't know how to speak Arabic, so your translation is flawed. Even if you find translations... you don't speak Arabic, so somehow you can't give an opinion. If god is that petty that his holy book relies on us to give over all our trust (and power) to another human... count me out. These people just have a messiah complex. They think they're chosen by god or something that's why they "see it clearly" and we should trust their apologetic translations over our own eyes.
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@secularmerlin
Off the platform i've chosen to favor... we can't say where we were before here, but there is some anecdotal evidence that some remember certain things, including myself. But that isn't something we can prove. Plus, in such a platform... we shouldn't and can't remember... it would spoil this experience. And your desire to make something real doesn't happen here. This would be the desire. To me, it's a C-rate desire and i don't know why i'm here sometimes... but, then the things i love about this world always show themselves to me. Even if it's small, i guess if i'm infinite i'd do this life just for that. But... none of that is provable. It's just a conclusion that can be drawn from such a platform. In the end of the day, i'm glad there are people like you bc if there weren't... i'd probably be Christian, or even worse Muslim. It was an atheist/skeptic that broke me away from religion. I can't thank that person enough. Would i have done it myself, maybe... but, i'm glad he got me out as early as he did. Everything in reality, in my eyes, is necessary for this reality.That is very nice of you. It would be nice if my desire to believe something could make it more real but thay is not what I observe. I suppose whether you are right or I am I will someday cease to exist. Think I'm ok with that. I didn't exist for billions of years before I was born and was quite unbothered by it.
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