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@whiteflame
Were you online during dp3, and if so, when did you realize it was definitely Austin and I?
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@whiteflame
I sincerely couldn’t tell you why it was consistently an uphill battle to get Savant lynched.
Bit of a mystery to me as well, but Austin backing me up probably helped with that.
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@AustinL0926
Looking back, I probably should have just said my role was confirmable instead of claiming.
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@Lunatic
So you gave them fake claims AFTER the game started?
That's correct
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@Lunatic
Did you give them fake claims after the game started or prior?
It was after BK figured out the theme.
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@Casey_Risk
Got close to being lynched several times. At some point in dp1 Austin said I just had to be the "second-scummiest player alive," and that strategy stuck for the rest of the game.
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@Lunatic
there is two mafia, the second one being responsible for the night kill could be the explanation for the kill still going through
Not sure I follow this. Neither of the people Barney claims to have rbed are scum, so of course the night kill went through.
I would rather not lynch Barney right now.
He is objectively the most suspicious right now, and he knows it. Not to mention, why would a town player vote themselves when we can't afford a mislynch?
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@AustinL0926
Two scenarios are possible:a. Scum also have a double roleblocker, this roleblocker roleblocked the exact same people as Barney did, and they were the actual cause of the roleblock while Barney's actions had no effect.b. Barney is a scum double roleblocker.
Yeah, when you put it this way, I really see no way for Barney to be town.
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@Barney
If you are town, I can't understand what reasoning you are using. Luna's role has already been confirmed. We both know that a mislynch today will result in a town loss, so there's no noble sacrifice being made here. You basically dared us to vote for you, I did, and then you scum read me. How am I the irrational one here?
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That said, I think it's unlikely since the last scum is almost certainly Barney or JoeBob.
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@JoeBob
Maybe. But you should unvote right now if you want to avoid a potential quick hammer.
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@Barney
if you're really a bleeder town will survive into the next day by lynching you
I've said already that it only applies if I die at night.
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@Barney
In Mahabharata, there was still another round left. In this case, a mislynch guarantees that town loses.
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@Barney
You just cast a second vote on me knowing that scum can quick hammer. That is not pro-town behavior.
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I realized scum can quick hammer if someone gets two votes, so no one else vote for Barney right now. That said, he's still my top suspect for a few reasons.
First, he claimed that it was BK or WF with 95% probability. It seemed reasonable at the time, but clearly both of them are town. I'd like to see the calculations Barney claims he did, since they were clearly off.
Second, he basically asked us to vote for him when it was far from a sure thing. This only makes sense as a scum manipulation tactic, since a town member would be trying to get a final lynch today.
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@Barney
Lunatic submitted his hammer before that. If you look at the vote count, it shows only his name counting for like 9999999 votes.
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@AustinL0926
I'd have gone for either at this point, but then Barney gave a complete lack of defense, which seems pretty anti-town.
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@Barney
I suggest not bothering with voting, and just have Lunatic do it whenever he gets on.
He can only use his ability once.
It's SOP to lunch me at this point.
Ok then. If you're not going to give a defense, it doesn't leave us with much of a choice.
VTL Barney
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@Casey_Risk
Barney is a strong suspect, but I'll wait for him to post before I cast any votes.
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@Lunatic
@Barney
@AustinL0926
@JoeBob
@Casey_Risk
Austin is confirmed as the guide. Last night, he sent me the following message:
"I didn't target whiteflame or Luna because they're likely NK targets. I don't trust Barney's role. Based on Korea's flip, I think that Joe is probably scum."
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@Moozer325
With 8 players remaining it takes 4 votes to lynch? (Tell me if I’m wrong)
Pretty sure it should take 5.
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@whiteflame
@Best.Korea
BK, if you're scum, which is a genuine possibility at this point, then you should have voted for whiteflame when you had the chance. You're behavior is so irrationaly anti-town that it overrides whatever guarantees I thought you had before. I'm fine with lynching you first at this point, and if you flip town, we can go after whiteflame.
Whiteflame, regardless of our arguments up to this point, if you are town, you have to see BK as a genuine scum possibility. He claimed to be rbed on the same night you did, and his reasoning just makes no sense at all.
VTL Best.Korea
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@Best.Korea
Alright. Its confirmed. Savant and Austin are scum.
What??
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@Best.Korea
Why not get a scum in the next one lynch and possibly prevent a roleblock tonight? We're going to have to lynch whiteflame eventually, and you're literally voting alongside a 95% likely scum player instead of eliminating him. Killing a scum means one less vote for scum, less scum night actions, etc.
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@Best.Korea
No, its 100%.
It's not a 100% chance of getting a scum today.
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@whiteflame
So... you're admitting that it's WIFOM thinking either way?
Well at least one of us is a town member, and neither of this are buying your pseudo-cc theory. We can't both be doing WIFOM.
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@Best.Korea
That's 50/50 at best. According to Barney's logic, you should be 95% sure whiteflame is scum. We should be lynching a scum this day phase to possibly take out a role blocker. Is there a reason you're not targeting whiteflame?
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@whiteflame
Because revealing he's town means you're the obvious suspect the next DP.
Does this not contradict "JoeBob as scum would have every reason to push the perception that you are scum as well."
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@whiteflame
JoeBob as scum would have every reason to push the perception that you are scum as well.
So by this logic, why am I not pushing JoeBob?
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@Barney
I did some calculations and I can promise (to like 95% certainty) that either Whiteflame or Best.Korea are scum, and with 100% certainty that the other is town.
I agree, but plz elaborate on your calculations.
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@Best.Korea
it barely matters
It means everything at this point, since we only have two lynches left to kill scum.
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@AustinL0926
neither you or Joebob seem to view it that way
Now you're getting it. If JoeBob is town and WF's theory is true, then he should be insisting the claim confirms that I am scum.
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@Barney
whereas Best.Korea is very much murder hungry
Moozer made a comment earlier implying the existence of a doctor, and BK hasn't been cc'd. Behaviorally, he's just being BK.
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@whiteflame
@Best.Korea
If Savant flips town, JoeBob and I are obvious suspects.
WF is an obvious suspect now that we will almost certainly have to lynch sooner or later. Even if you buy his logic, it would be 50/50 between me and JoeBob, but almost 100% that his claim is the false one regarding roleblockers.
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@Best.Korea
However, voting you and you somehow being town would expose joe as scum, so I dont see why are you against it if you think you are town.
I'm not convinced JoeBob is scum just because I know I'm not. Especially not with this mod. It concerns me more that he hasn't been contributing much.
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@Best.Korea
If you can get votes on savant, its fine too.
What? Why would you just bandwagon whoever everyone else is voting for.
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@Barney
But we're not talking about a miller right now.
Sure, whiteflame's case falls somewhere in the middle.
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@Best.Korea
I mean, this is good for you. You get to live by dp4.
I appreciate that, and I'm fine lynching whiteflame this day phase. Just thinking ahead.
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@Best.Korea
if casey is lynched and scum, the other scum cannot be logically found at this point
Same for if anyone else is lynched and is scum, because Casey could be the other scum we don't find.
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@whiteflame
@AustinL0926
@JoeBob
You’re arguing that I could lie about my claim in a later game, so I should be punished for this lie now.
No, I'm pointing out the absurdity of not scum-reading claims of this nature. If it's suspicious in most cases, it's probably suspicious in this case.
You can argue over policy all you want, but let's focus on winning the current game.
JoeBob isn't my top scum read, but I'm willing to consider that angle at least. JoeBob, why should we trust you?
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@Best.Korea
I am forced to think as if casey is town just to get some chance at winning.
Why though? Why assume Casey is town instead of assuming JoeBob or Austin is, for example?
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@whiteflame
You’re calling me out for doing this because I could have done it later
When did I say this?
What harm did I do to town?
Making it easier for scum to fake claim and then not commit to said claim later.
I think at this point you know where I stand, and I know where you stand. My vote stays where it is for now, but I'm open to changing it later if someone else becomes more suspicious.
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@Barney
Let's say I'm the doctor or cop, and I don't want to get NKed... I do what scum does and makes a fake claim, which keeps my role in the game.
That works because doctor and cop are usually unique roles. If a miller tried that strategy, we would lynch them.
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@whiteflame
Why would I go out of my way to explain my role as a basis for why I could not be manipulated or prevented from using the BG in any other way?
Isn't this just a WIFOM argument
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@whiteflame
@AustinL0926
In other words, no effect of lying on town, potentially strong effect on scum.
If we 100% knew you were town, then yes. In this case it just seems suspicious. Any scum could come up with some excuse for lying later claiming it was helping the town. So if we buy this it sets a super bad precedent.
There's a huge difference between the two situations. In the one you just mentioned, there would be no good reason for a town player to out a CC and cause mass confusion. In whiteflame's case, there was no risk whatsoever of this, since he was still a Bodyguard, just a modified one. I can also see a clear benefit: avoiding a redirector or similar visit-tampering role, which we've seen repeatedly in the last few games.
If whieflame's not the only one insisting on this, then maybe there's a case to be made that the benefit outweighs the cost. I still think that the odds of luring a scum are outweighed by the confusion it causes though.
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@whiteflame
Do you want me to start listing other roles that aren’t “Roleblocker” that could still result in a role failing?
Go ahead. Maybe I'm just too used to Town of Salem, but I don't see that being the likely explanation here.
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