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@HistoryBuff
But it is also important to note the distinction. If someone says "i saw that man shoot and kill the victim", they 100% confirm they saw the commission of a crime.
They could be lying.
If someone says "i saw a box of 500 votes", that isn't a crime.
I agree. But what if they say under oath ¬` I seen a box 500 votes destroyed, ' that is another matter isn't it.
What kind of supporting evidence would you accept in that circumstance considering the law accepts affidavits as a statements of fact (UK)
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@HistoryBuff
Would you consider a sworn affidavit under oath carrying a sentence of up to 5- 15 years imprisonment(?) credible evidence ?on it's own? absolutely not. That is hearsay. If it is supporting other physical evidence, then it could be included as evidence as well.
It makes one wonder why then do any court even bother to entertain a sworn under oath affidavits, without other"physical" evidence, doesn't it?
How does that work then as say in the case of an eye witness? Eye witness gives an account in a sworn affidavit under oath and then enters the witness box under oath and the Judge say tell us what you seen and produce the proof that you actaully seen what it is you are saying you seen? Is that what you are trying to tell me?
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@Greyparrot
As an outsider looking in, the way I see it is that Trump has performed some miracles over the last 4 years. But has a long way to go before he beats Joes' raising of the dead and getting them into the city polling stations. All very biblical sounding I know, but it has happened before you know.
" and the graves were opened; and many bodies were raised; and thousands coming out of their graves they went into the city to cast their vote". Matthew 27:52-54 NKJV
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@RoderickSpode
Pastor Deacon Fred maybe?
I think you are confusing him with your friend the Reverend Tradesecrete.
" I am a lawyer [........]Butin my role as a pastor - which I also do, I counsel in pastoralcare. And yes, I am qualified by certified colleges with properaccreditation. I am also a chaplain to our Countries Defenceforces, a position I could not have without properqualifications". #20
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@Deb-8-a-bull
Because Jesus fucklng loves cashhhhhhh.
And real estate.
"Yet they shamelessly cheat widows out of their property and then pretend to be pious by making long prayers in public. Because of this, they will be severely punished.” Luke 20:47.
Yes Deb, vulnerable old people who have lost a loved one are the perfect target for the "church". `' give me your house and you will see your husband/wife again! I promise ' .
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@Theweakeredge
Which on of those above questions are you actually answering?
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@RoderickSpode
John 11:23-24
New International Version
23 Jesus said to her, “Your brother will rise again.”
24 Martha answered, “I know he will rise again in the resurrection at the last day.”Martha compromised Jesus' claim by suggesting He simply meant her brother would arise in the after life so to speak. But what Jesus was saying basically was no, when I say he will arise again, I meant right in the here and now.
About time we had some honesty - well almost. Jesus certainly meant "here and now" because Martha's "brother" Lazarus, wasn't dead in the first place. This story is about Lazarus deciding that being in Jesus' close inner circle called "the living", had become far too dangerous and so, he decided to return to be among "the dead".
This is why Jesus wasn't in too much of an hurry to get back to his friend Lazarus who he loved because he knew he could talk him round and back into Jesus' inner circle of the "living"...... with a bit of a sweetener.
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@Deb-8-a-bull
You want old people in your church FULL STOP
All "churches" want old people in their churches. And I know why Deb. Would you like me me to tell you why? I will if you promise to keep it to yourself.
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@BrotherDThomas
Are you vying to be more Bible ignorant than Tradesecret?
He'd have to spend many years alone in his monk cell to become that ignorant. As it stands, he only lasted a matter of days at his last go at being a cassocked, sandal wearing tonsured novice.
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@HistoryBuff
Again, these are all people saying they saw something or that they talked to someone who says they saw something without a single piece of actual evidence being provided. Nothing in these clips that I have seen is remotely evidence of fraud.
I am really finding all of these - what appear to be - baseless allegations of election fraud quite interesting.
Why is it do you think , that these people think this is somehow credible evidence when you say its not?
Why is it that you have managed in just matter of minutes and with just a simple sweep of the hand have been able to debunk and dismiss these allegation as false yet somehow these people can take their false allegations all the way to a supreme court?
What would you call credible evidence of election fraud worthy of close inspection in the supreme court?
Would you consider a sworn affidavit under oath carrying a sentence of up to 5- 15 years imprisonment(?) credible evidence ?
Do you happen to work for a law firm?
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@Tradesecret
No one was cherry picking.
That's all you christian ever do, yet you are the first to complain about "cherry picking" when the shoe is on the other foot. You are hypocrites that apply double standards when it suits you to do so. As I have said many times Reverend#20 , Jesus makes it plain on many occasions what his stance is on the Mosaic law. But you Christians will rewrite and reinterpret the whole bible if that what it takes to make god and the Scriptures come up smelling of roses every time.
No one was cherry picking. We simply applied the texts like they are meant to be applied. Sorry it does not suit you.
As usual, you couldn't be more wrong . It suits me just fine because it gives me licence to highlight your double standards perfectly and your own in particular , Reverend.#20
And I was expecting a rigorous rebuttal on this thread considering you claim the bible cannot "cause anything".
The OT does say that homosexuality is sinful.
This^^^^^^ is you in full lawyer mode#20 . How you can attempt to play down such a grievous penalty by trying to pass it off a as simply another "sin"shouldn't surprise or fool anyone. It certainly doesn't fool me.
It says homosexuality is an "abomination" and the penalty is DEATH, stop trying to play down the gravity of this crime against god by simply calling it a "sin". Working on the Sabbath is also a "sin" / crime worthy of death.
Yes, in the OT it even says that this covenantal sin requires covenantal death.
Stop with your pathetic lawyers word salad. #20 It is the Mosaic LAW that orders the death penalty, the same law Jesus said he had not come to destroy:
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them."Matthew 5:17
Yet as any student of Hebrew will tell you this is talking about the maximum penalty.
That is correct. What other penalty does the Mosaic law OF GOD! have for committing homosexual acts that are an "abomination" to god? Tickling till you cannot take it anymore, perhaps ? What about marshmallow combat against the Jewish marsh mellow throwing champion in the arena? No! then what!? What other penalty for homosexuality does GOD DEMAND for what he calls an "abomination"!!!?
The OT is not barbaric in nature. It just isn't. And you have not even come close to proving otherwise.
One only has to read the OT for themselves and the killing and sentencing to death of innocent people doesn't stop! And is all you can tell us that it is all justified because god is god and he can do what the fk he likes. Defending the indefensible; that is your job as a lawyer isn't it? >>>>> #20 "I am a lawyer. ". Well your "client" is guilty of mass fkn murder and you are trying to justify the unjustifiable. It is not working Reverend #20
The OT law like NT law is a reflection of the character of God.
It does. A violent, intolerant, megalomaniac jealous god of war.
The fact that sinners find it repulsive is because they find God repulsive and his character repulsive.
Stop trying to throw this back on the "sinner". GOD finds homosexuality a criminal "ABOMINATION", and according to GODS law the penalty for homosexuality is DEATH!!!!, no matter how you try to play it down . You have tried this devious ploy before by trying to tell us to curse ones parents means to threaten to kill them . This was you attempting to make a "sin" fit the unjust punishment of death. <<<<<<<<<<< do you see????? MORE FKN DEATH!!!!!! The killing by this god does not stop.
If on the other hand you decided that you did not find it repulsive and you did not find God's character repulsive - you would actually prove it wrong. That is the irony.
Jesus makes it plain on many occasions what his stance is on the Mosaic law. But YOU Christians will rewrite and reinterpret the whole bible if that what it takes to make god and the Scriptures come up smelling of roses every time.
"If a man also lie with mankind, As he lieth with a woman, Both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; " (Leviticus 20:13)
“And Peter and the apostles answered, “We must obey God rather than men. (Acts 5:29)
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@HistoryBuff
Thanks for that.
Part 2 Compilation of voter fraud part 2: Aftermath
00:00 Sidney Powell - Sunday morning
03:43 "Glitch" gave DEM got 6000 votes meant for GOP
04:24 Election worker in Michigan lists many "glitches", all favoring DEM
07:43 From Tucker Carlson 2020-11-10
11:39 Lou Dobbs & Rudy Giuliani
15:47 Hillary: "Don't concede no matter what"
16:36 Red Elephants reads signed affidavits
19:33 Fulton County, GA, fake closing of tabulation center
22:21 Sargon: "Why is it always the left?"
23:18 Crowder & Rudy Giuliani: This was DEM's "fail safe"
"Note: there will be at least one more video, showing how they did it, which was even caught live on CNN on election night".
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@Mopac
Brother is not a Christian, he is an atheist's caricature of a RAGING ASSHOLE.
Not for you to say.
And you are derailing someone else's thread. So I should give over now.
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@Mopac
Oh you are such a fkn wordsmith Mopac.
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@Mopac
If you really want to know how the church uses scripture, go to an orthodox church. Become a catechuman.
Well why don't you introduce me into it by starting a thread about it who knows where it might lead me.
You simply want something to argue with.
Not necessarily. I don't always argue . Especially with those I happen to agree with. Such as the Brother. The Brother is a full blown Christian, I am not. I agree with many things the Brother has to say concerning the scriptures - which he knows extremely well. so it is rare I have a point to argue with him.
This doesn't stop him calling me "demonic," as you have done a few times.
Don't worry butt lovers, we are not told to stone you to death.
The bible and the lord god Jesus does though, don't they?
butt lovers,
Will you ever stop being so fkn childish. You are like that little tart here that just cannot stop LOLLing at every comment and wetting her nickers with hysterics over nothing. FFS grow up Mopac
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@Mopac
Yes it all sounds like an easy ride to me. Bees doing all the work while you reap the rewards siting in your cell not thinking for yourself.
Do those bees work a nightshift and on the Sabbath too to support all of you monks?
You are freeloader the depends on tithes or other donations usually from those that can least afford it. With promises of a life after death in paradise. Wicked I say.
But fair play, there's always going to be another sucker coming through and for all of eternity.
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I didn't say you had used the report function. Your reading comprehension isn't great, is it?
this is what you have further wrote at #103 TXHG "Reported you using the report function on the forums, where presumably a moderator will review your post for deletion" .
This was after you told me that you had reported me for a comment I made. here >>> #99 TXHG you said >>>"I have reported you for this". You can'rt even distinguish between who say what you little fascists. Stop pretending I have said what is that you have said.
I don't doubt Robinson's site sends out many automated new letters a many web sites do. I am not denying Osbourne may or may not have read anything from Robinson. I don't know and neither do you or those rags you keep quoting.
Robinson has never been charged with a racist offence. Not even saying something racist as much as you want that to be true it isn't! If he had he would have been locked up.
They are always looking for an excuse to arrest and lock up Robinson. He was arrested just a week or so ago. He had gone to the famous Speakers Corner in Hyde Park, to support a woman (of colour ) that has been speaking out against the horrors of Islam and had been attacked and beaten up many times there by Muslims. 1:35 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tKfyTLs4CE
Robinson got arrested just for being there to support this woman that had been attacked a few weeks before. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yR_set6v3lM
Robinson was released with out charge.
So I am telling you , the ignorant: if they could lock way Robinson, they would do so in a flash and for the maxim the sentence required. Robinson has never been charged with a racist offence EVER!!!!!!
I have shown you good real and hard evidence that Robinson is nothing like YOU and those left wing twats simply try to paint him . I am sorry that you are disappointed that Robinson has been cleared of your false accusation of him being white supremacists by the very people you say he despises and rants about. get fkn over it.
HERE IT IS AGAIN:
4:22 and listen to what Haras Rafiq has to say about Robinson.
Neil askes " on this the Guardian comment, you effectively did call him (Robinson) a white supremist".
Haras Rafiq: "let me clarify something, the Quillium position on Tommy weather he is a white supremacists or not. Quilliam and I, and Tommy knows me, he's been to my house, he's had dinner with my family he knows I am not someone who has a vendetta against him and he knows exactly what I stand for. So I am surprised as CEO he says Quiliam stands for something else, BUT TOMMY IS NOT A WHITE SUPERMICIST!!!!!"
BBC Andrew Neil
And believe me,the bias BBC are no friends to Robinson.
It was also the BBC that reported and the Drama that pushed Osbourne over the edge. I think you want to ignore that too:
"It appears to have begun when Osborne became fixated on Three Girls, a three-part BBC drama about the Rochdale abuse scandal in which most of the victims were white and most of the perpetrators were Pakistani-heritage men.
His partner told police how he had become "obsessed" with the drama which aired the month before the attack. Commander Dean Haydon, the head of counter-terrorism at the Metropolitan Police, says that this drama was the catalyst
Osborne began accusing Muslims of being rapists or paedophiles - and the couple argued as he had never previously been openly racist or hostile to Muslims".https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42886464
And I have told you. being a Muslim is not a race, no more than being a catholic makes you a Roman
You have your opinions of Robinson and you are welcome to them. But stop regurgitating BS .
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Compilation of voter fraud videos
00:00 Poll supervisor, registered democrat.
00:48 Same man, outside
01:00 Boarded up windows in Michigan 1
01:20 Boarded up windows in Michigan 2
01:42 Inspector not allowed in Philadelphia
02:16 Angry poll counter throws out ballot
02:49 Burning Trump votes
04:00 Woman finds box with 500 unregistered ballots
04:48 Poll worker finds manipulated data
06:27 Dead people vote?
07:42 Man thrown out of polling location
08:46 Defying court order to let polling be monitored
10:49 Vote fraud scheme in Michigan, Detroit
11:33 Prager U explains Ballot harvesting
13:06 Steven Bannon on FOX news setting the stage for Joe Biden takeover
15:26 Joe Biden admits to voter fraud
15:26 "Joe Biden admits to voter fraud" ? Does Joe Biden mean - anti - voter fraud? Its hard to tell with Biden he doesn't know his wife from his sister. I hope his kids know who their real mom is.
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@Mopac
I am not a freeloader. As I stated, I start my novitiate next year. It will be a lot of work actually. Likely a lot of construction.
How much does that training cost and who pays for your keep while you sit in your cell praying and not thinking for yourself?
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@Theweakeredge
Try again.
Look you have had you replies pages ago. No one here would take a blind bit of notice what the bible says when I came to you or your sexuality NO ONE!
They just can't bring themselves to admit the Old Testament is barbaric nature. They want it both ways all the time. It is as you say " ignoring the fact that Jesus says contradicting things about the old laws. "
Jesus makes it plain on many occasions what his stance is on the mosaic law. But these Christians will rewrite and reinterpret the hole bible if that what it takes to make god and the Scriptures come up smelling of roses every time.
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@Mopac
The scriptures ought not scare you Stephen, not if you know how the church uses them.
I said - concern - me. They don't scare me.
not if you know how the church uses them.
Why don't you start an interesting thread explaining in depth " how the church uses the scriptures".
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@Mopac
I'm not interested in debating these things with.you.
Then simply stay of my threads and don't ask me anything and do not comment on anything I have said. But you can't do that can you.
It takes only seconds to dismantle you BS , Mopac. Where will you be freeloading next, a Ashram or Kibbutz?
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@Tradesecret
I do understand Orthodoxy. I studied and was tutored by academics, scholars, and priests and fathers from the Orthodox Church.Which ones?I saw your question before and decided not to answer it. It frankly is none of your business. I do not propose to leave any more personal details on this site for your continuing abuse and exploitation.
Just as I suspect, NONE! You have already voluntarily given away your titles, qualifications and what you work as and where you lecture. But you cannot mention one single academic or scholar that you claim to have been tutored by.
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@Theweakeredge
well there are a few million Christians will give you an argument there.So? They will have to make a valid argument before I care. Why don't you?
I don't need to make a valid argument . I am simply highlighting what these "god breathed" scriptures have to say about you and other so called "abominations". I am supporting your corner sunshine. Your not doing too good on your own. Is all you keep repeating is I am gay, god wants me dead and the bible gives god moral authority.
Am I supposed to lie about being gay?
Not my call is it. and we are not living in ancient times are we.
then you will be sentenced to death and killed by the state under gods commandment, in those ancient times. But lucky for you, you are savedSo? If I don't recognize the state's authority to execute then it doesn't matter, not to mention that god is the foundation of their laws there, in both cases it's still not execution.
Well just as today, you can shout as much as you like that you don't recognise the law of the land or jurisdiction but that is not going to save anyone from the course of the law.
Look you have had you replies pages ago. No one here would take a blind bit of notice what the bible says when I came to you or your sexuality NO ONE!
They just can't bring themselves to admit the Old Testament is barbaric nature. They want it both ways all the time. It is as you say " ignoring the fact that Jesus says contradicting things about the old laws. "
Jesus makes it plain on many occasions what his stance is on the mosaic law. But these Christians will rewrite and reinterpret the hole bible if that what it takes to make god and the Scriptures come up smelling of roses every time.
Common sense and common law?
Are you really as stupid as you are coming across to be? We are not living in ancient times. They don't stone homosexuals even in Israel anymore!!!! Lucky you eh!!!!
A jury is allowed to use it own reasoning and common sense. The law on the other hand only sees black OR white. The law is an IT , and IT cannot do anything on ITS own IT has to have advocates to bring IT to life and for IT to have a voice. Common sense comes in when a jury via their own thoughts and reasoning come to a conclusion that are usually outside of what IT , the law actually stipulates. In other words common sense and reasoning can do what IT cannot do.
This goes back to my own thread where I say a "book " is full words that DO " cause people to do things" and contrary to what our resident lawyer the Reverend Tradesecrete says. (that why she's given that thread a wide berth)https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5123-the-bible-can-t-cause-anything
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@Theweakeredge
->@Tradesecret: You're a lawyer, right? Did you just ignore literally all the other evidence I've shown you?
Yes, she will do that whenever is suites her to do so. She even ignores facts that concern her own title and hos she should be addressed.
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@Mopac
I know, it must be sad for you that we aren't the monsters you wish we were.
I honestly believe you are ill Mopac.
I have nothing against Christians. It is your scriptures that concern me.
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@Mopac
The fact that you want us to do so is very telling.
More silliness. That is a disgraceful thing to say.
I have never and wouldn't advocated for such torment, torture or punishment. But the bible has , and your god does.
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He has been banned for twitter for hateful comments, such as claiming that all British Muslims were involved in the 7/7 bombing
So he was banned from twitter, so what!? Twitter as does face book, ban anyone they don't agree with. And they were British Muslims.
and claiming all adult male Muslim refugees were fake.
How do you know there aren't . and maybe he should have said "many" and not all. your scraping the barrel. Thousands of these so called refugees are coming here ILLEGALLLY from sub Sahara Africa and not war torn countries. If they are real refugees, then the law states that they should claim asylum in the first "safe" country they land in. But they are not doing that.
He's also a former member of the BNP
Former. So what? He is independent now and has been for at least 10 years. he also founded the EDL but left that because it got infiltrated by far right.
He's called British Muslims enemy combatants who want to destroy white people
Many of them are. In 2017 it was reported that the "UK home to 23,000 jihadists" and more recently it is reported that there over 30,000 Muslim jihadi extremist in the UK and over 3,000 of them are high on the anti terrorism watch list according to MI5.
The investigation into the Rotherham grooming gang, which started the focus on Muslim dominated grooming gangs, started in 2008 and lead to convictions in 2010. Neither Peter McLoughlin or Robinson were involved and the story got national exposure: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-south-yorkshire-11696508
You way out of whack with that one. Rotherham was at the height of the rape gang epidemic, there are cases going back way before the first convictions. I told you just in that Milton Keynes alone these rape gangs had been operating for nearly 40 years.
You simply do not have clue what you are talking about.
Good for you. Thank you for the platform maybe I can give the story a push on my arrest, such as how Islam stones women to death for getting themselves raped.Reported you using the report function on the forums, where presumably a moderator will review your post for deletion. Something of a persecution complex I spy?
EDL and Darren Osborne who drove a van into a crowd of people killing 12 was converted to extremism by Tommy Robinson videos)
You mean former Founder of the EDL and he left years ago because it was infiltrated by the far right.
Darren Osborne who drove a van into a crowd of people killing 12 was converted to extremism by Tommy Robinson videos)
Daren Osborne is on COURT RECORD as saying that what drove him to do what he did was a BBC drama called Three Girls a three-part drama based on the true stories of the Rape and hiring out and sex trafficking of white schoolgirls by Pakistani Muslims in Rochdale.
"It appears to have begun when Osborne became fixated on Three Girls, a three-part BBC drama about the Rochdale abuse scandal in which most of the victims were white and most of the perpetrators were Pakistani-heritage men.
His partner told police how he had become "obsessed" with the drama which aired the month before the attack. Commander Dean Haydon, the head of counter-terrorism at the Metropolitan Police, says that this drama was the catalyst
Osborne began accusing Muslims of being rapists or paedophiles - and the couple argued as he had never previously been openly racist or hostile to Muslims".https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42886464
And sadly one person died of heat attack ( he happened to be having his attack in the middle of the road when Osbourne turned up) and nine were injured so where you pulled you're exaggerated figures from of "12 deaths" is sheer and utter bollocks.
I am assuming you didn't watch that video did you? If you had you would have seen one journalist that Robinson approached over false accusations given to the Guardian by her, immediately denied what she had wrote.
Then we have the interview chaired by the well respected journalist and broadcaster Andrew Neil. along with Robinson, Muslim Haras Rafiq Chief Executive of the (once government funded till 2011) Quilliam and Tim Martin British also journalist, author and broadcaster.
Quilliam was established in 2007 by Ed Husain, Maajid Nawaz and and Rashad Zaman Ali, three former members of the Islamist group Hizb ut-Tahrir.
If you are too busy or simply want to ignore facts from the horses mouth, then cut right to 4:22 and listen to what Haras Rafiq has to say about Robinson.
Neil askes " on this the Guardian comment, you effectively did call him (Robinson) a white supremist".
Haras Rafiq: "let me clarify something, the Quillium position on Tommy weather he is a white supremacists or not. Quilliam and I, and Tommy knows me, he's been to my house, he's had dinner with my family he knows I am not someone who has a vendetta against him and he knows exactly what I stand for. So I am surprised as CEO he says Quiliam stands for something else, BUT TOMMY IS NOT A WHITE SUPERMICIST!!!!!"
BBC Andrew Neil
So TXHG, you simply cannot get that from a higher Muslim person or Muslim organisation
And if you happen to be interested in REAL fkn facts, look up one of these other names that I highlighted from the founders of Quilliam, Maajid Nawaz.
Maajid Nawaz proudly bragged to the Oxford Union that he had - " diligently traveled the world recruiting army officers from places such as Pakistan and Saudi Arabia to overthrow western governments and their allies militarily coups".
Maajid Nawaz | Dream The American Dream
Yes this lovely man that spent 5 years in an Egyptian prison for his "activities" And guess what? He was rewarded on his release with a lucrative position on a Western Radio Station LBC where he tells the rest of us how we should live our lives. Yes , by all account this ex convict and self confessed terrorist recruiter, has been given another chance here in the west and by people he says he once "despised". Nawazz is also friends to this Muslim Journalist Mehdi Hassan, who tells the world (behind closed doors) anyone not Muslim "is an uneducated animal that sleep with there mothers" .
I think you'll like Hassan. He spits as much vile bile as you do.
And those original founders of Quilliam you will notice belonged to Hizb ut-Tahrir an international, pan-Islamist and fundamentalist political organization whose stated aim is the re-establishment of the Islamic Caliphate to unite the Muslim community and implement Shariah, so as to then carry the proselytizing of Islam to the rest of the world.
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@TXHG
I'm not going to bother quoting the whole thing,
You don't have to. I am asking to you support YOUR claim. Show me where Robinson has said or done anything racist.
Your argument does nothing to address his racism.
You mean your claim that he is racist . For which you haven't shown one iota of evidence. I am not here to prove your claims.
Also Tommy Robinson did nothing to stop Muslim rape gang"
Robinson along with author Peter Mcloughlin exposed this scandal . McLoghlin sat on this story for ages for fear that his left wing cronies " would shun him". He finally found his nerve (he was writing for the daily Mirror at the time) when Robinson after years of his own investigations started exposing it to anyone that would listen.
I am too anti Islam. It is a barbaric ideology that cannot reform . So millions of modern day Muslims are trapped.I have reported you for this.
Good for you. Thank you for the platform maybe I can give the story a push on my arrest, such as how Islam stones women to death for getting themselves raped.
I've literally linked in my previous post to him claiming all Muslims are vicious criminals,
You are a confused little petal aren't you.. Islam is not a race and neither is being a Muslim. And to remind you, it was a vicious Muslim criminal that blew up mothers and children (mainly little girls ) at a concert here in England in the name of Islam and allah after he came here as an asylum seeker. It was a Muslim criminal that recently went on a shooting spree in the name of Islam and allah in Vienna killing and wounding 22 people. I gather these are truths that you refuse to hear. I can take it that you won't be starting a thread on Islam here in the religion sub forum.
Do me the favour of watching this interview . it only 10 minutes or so.
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@Danielle
Ok I will get right on that for you Danielle
Good. I hope you show the same enthusiasm for calling out BS fake news stories as you you do for sharing them for our "consideration."
You can be assures that I will Danielle. I will look at your link later and get back. BFN
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@Theweakeredge
Or he was lying, as all prophets did, which was my point.Which ones and what did they lie about?What did prophets lie about? Hearing a god, blah, blah, blah,
Not very helpful. Which prophets were lying and what do they say they were hearing, did they say they heard god tell them to execute homosexuals?
and I frankly don't care what apologists or the bible says,
Then why the Fk are you here whining and whinging and crying about god wanting you dead etc etc. FFS man or woman, if your going to start a thread about your fkn hangups with what god says about you and or homosexuals then have the decency to engage.
the bible gives god moral authority,
Yes the bible does, This would be the the book that the Reverend Tradesecrete says "cannot cause anything". The book that was "breathed" in existence by god himself, by all accounts
but in reality she has none.
well there are a few million Christians will give you an argument there.
Therefore it is not ane execution just because god commands it. An execution is a just killing by the state.
It is as someone has explained already. If your found guilty of the behaviour that is an "Abomination" to god - which you are by your own silly self confession ( ask a good religious defence lawyer here #20) then you will be sentenced to death and killed by the state under gods commandment, in those ancient times. But lucky for you, you are saved . But not because the lord god Jesus has changed his mind as some will have you believe,( god never changes his mind according to Christians) no, it is because we now have had a reformation and have commonsense and common law .
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@rosends
Heavens, no.
Surely there is and "ist" there somewhere.
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@Theweakeredge
Or he was lying, as all prophets did, which was my point.
Which ones and what did they lie about?
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@Theweakeredge
therefore anything they commanded would be similar to a mob boss commanding their goons, to say: murder
But it doesn't say anything like that does it?
If you start moving away from what is actually written then is all you are doing is giving the apologists more room to maneuver their god, their scriptures and themselves into the realms of false respectability.
They don't need your in help explaining away these ambiguous unreliable scriptures. They are good at lying about them all by themselves.
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@Mopac
context is everything Stephen.Christians are not commanded to kill all the butt lovers. Don't worry, you are safe......for now.
MMMMMYYY, we are annoyed aren't we. Ad hominem, and you call me childish. hahahhahahahhah
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@Mopac
I wouldn't be calling anyone childish.
Answer the questions. You forced these questions with you pointless and childish sarcasm.
Did you see how easily and quick it back fired on you and made you look pathetic.
And did the bible cause you to be sarcastic and pointlessly childish.
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@SirAnonymous
Why ever not?"because Christ fulfilled the law with His death (see Romans 3-4 and Hebrews 7)."
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.Matthew 5:17 Jesus changed no law and he made that clear. And he didn't relieve anyone of their duty towards god commands either especially Christians!
I am not rewriting the Bible when I say that verse doesn't apply to Christians.
That is exactly what you are doing. Are we to ignore then what peter says? Acts 5:29 “We must obey God rather than human beings"!
Yes, it singles homosexuals out. It singles them out for the death penalty. i.e an early death. There is nothing misleading about it.It also tells us that everyone's sins deserve death. If God wanted to, He could kill us all and would be justified in doing so.
Then why single out these deaths for homosexuality from other deaths for sins inherited. . You making no sense . Is all you are doing is attempting - with irrelevant verses - to defend the indefeasible. In fact god singles out adulterers and those that work on the sabbath for a premature death too, doesn't he.
We are talking execution here... Most of us reading here understand perfectly well that we are not talking murder, but execution, the taking of ones life prematurely.According to the OP, we're talking about murder,
But I am.
And what if your god told you to "execute" someone for being say.... homosexual? As per his commands at Leviticus 20:13 . Or even Leviticus 20:9.You mean those commands that the Bible explicitly says don't apply to Christians, because the former regulation has been set aside?
BS. Your god does not relieve Christians of their duty of carrying out his commands under any circumstances . Common sense and the common law of the land does that... thankfully.
Jesus himself commands that we are to obey gods/his commands not mans. You know this is fact. If it isn't then you have a fkn great problem with those verses you keep posting don't you? Because they would contradict what god Jesus himself commands.
Romans 13:1-2. Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves.
You see. It is easily done to pull out a supporting verse and one that is clearly relevant to my argument and contradictory to those that you believe support your own argument.
And lets not forget Acts 5:29 “We must obey God rather than human beings!
And lets not also for get , that, as you clearly state above "According to Christianity, Jesus is God" #58
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@Intelligence_06
Well if it is hateful then we should challenge it or ignore it.
Make your mind up! How can one challenge it if you believe it is hateful to even repeat it?
Should the creator of this thread , Theweakeredge "ignore " the fact that the god of Christians want him dead !!!?
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@Theweakeredge
Furthermore, you seem to be confused, the laws of the time were all either influenced or commanded by god
I think you are posting to the wrong person. I agree "the laws of the time were all either influenced or commanded by god ". Haven't you read anything that I have wrote?
Your question would have been better had you asked .
"would you EXUCUTE me as per your god's commands and instructions for being a homosexual? "
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@Tradesecret
I do understand Orthodoxy. I studied and was tutored by academics, scholars, and priests and fathers from the Orthodox Church.
Which ones?
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@Intelligence_06
Yes. No matter who said it, hateful language is hateful.
Well then you are saying that the bible can never be challenged. You too are a fkn coward that would rather deny and ignore facts as "hateful" as they are.
Tell me. How would one challenge this vile verse without highlighting it?
How would one challenged the death penalty verses concerning homosexuality without highlighting these passages in the scriptures?
You just want to close down all fkn discussion and debate for no other reason than YOU believe it to be "hate speech" to highlight them. "intelligence " my arse! 6 maybe?
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@Intelligence_06
Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocksI don’t see the reason that this exists.
But exist it does, and in those very "god breathed" scriptures that theist stand by. Psalm 137:9
And you forget answer my question. Why?
Tell me, is quoting "hateful" verses from the bible " hate speech"?
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Also if you have any evidence for your wild suppositions that he is now some super anti-fraudster, feel free to present them.
I didn't say that. You are choosing to read things into my statements that aren't there. I was simply saying it takes one to know one. I was agreeing that he is a "fraudster".
He has been banned for twitter for hateful comments, such as claiming that all British Muslims were involved in the 7/7 bombing and claiming all adult male Muslim refugees were fake. That's aside from being identified by Matt Collins, head researcher at the anti-fascist organisation Hope Not Hate, as "one of the main drivers of anti-Muslim sentiment in this country" https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2018/mar/28/tommy-robinson-permanently-banned-twitter-violating-rules-hateful-conduct
Yes well I wouldn't take too much notice of those left wing twats at the Guardian. They have to make a living I suppose. But saying Robinson is not what he purports to be is simply full blown lies. Robinson is a journalist, he has written books (best sellers in fact) and he is an expert on the subject of Islam. He has debated many high profile Muslims that happen to agree on his stance against fundamental Islam. In fact Robinson is the first to admit that the Muslims are the biggest victims of ISLAM . I am too anti Islam. It is a barbaric ideology that cannot reform . So millions of modern day Muslims are trapped.
If you would like to start a thread and discussion of Islam start one in the religion sub forum. I will be more than happy to engage you. You obviously know fk all about this barbaric ideology. https://www.debateart.com/forum/religion/topics
Robinsons' work exposing Pakistani Muslim rape gangs and the rape of white children and young white schoolgirls in my country has -eventually - cause government to act after almost 40 YEARS! of cover up. So don't be too hard on the man. You have heard of the systematic rape of white children & young white schoolgirls by Muslim rape gangs haven't you? Or (assuming you are american) has MSM in America been silent on the issue as they have been here for nearly 40 years?
His opinion is based on racism and white nationalism.
I don't think so. I have never heard Robinson say anything "racist". Robinson has many "different coloured" friends and staff and to be honest I don't see anything wrong with loving ones country. Do you not love your country?
And I have accepted that until anyone (including you) can come up with evidence to the contrary. Do you have any evidence for voter fraud? Or do you believe there hasn't been any at all and the republicans are just hanging on by their fingernails...... as is their right to do by all accounts.There are a few instances of fraud on an individual level, like the Trump voter who tried to vote for his dead mother https://www.atinitonews.com/2020/10/trump-supporter-arrested-for-requesting-absentee-ballot-for-dead-mother/. The most major potential voter fraud to my mind is attempts by the Trump campaign to arrange large amounts of illegal ballots to be sent in: https://eu.jsonline.com/story/news/politics/elections/2020/11/06/trumps-wisconsin-campaign-asks-pennsylvania-cast-late-ballots/6182506002/
Lovely, back on track.
So you do recognise some voter fraud has gone on and all committed by Trump supporters. I see. And that is you fair unbalanced opinion is it?
Well done. We got there in the end.
You may find this interesting. I did.
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@Theweakeredge
I am Gay - if your god told you to murder me, would you murder me?
It is just as well that you have distinguished between murder and a sanctioned execution. But your mistake was asking the wrong question in this particular case.
You should asked the more posing question of "would you EXUCUTE me as per your gods commands and instructions for being a homosexual? "
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@Intelligence_06
Can someone who has more guts than me tell BrotherD to leave? He is being hateful to everything.
Yes well I have noticed that it is becoming common practice these days to accuse anyone telling the truth or stating facts- in this case biblical facts- to be accuse of "hate speech".
Tell me, is quoting "hateful" verses from the bible " hate speech"? Take this as an example : " Happy is the one who seizes your infants and dashes them against the rocks".
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@Tradesecret
But God would not tell an individual to put to death another person. He might well tell the State to.
Yes well I believe that most reading here understand this is what is meant. God lays down the law. The accused is tried by the priests in a religious court and sentence is handed down. and if the accused is found to have committed the "abomination" of an homosexual act, s/he is to be sentenced to death and executed..
So you wriggle on this bs line for as long as you like but the commandments written into law and into your book by "the breath of god" is gods law according to your own scriptures.
And Jesus said : “If you love me, you will keep my commandments".
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@SirAnonymous
Levitical Law does not apply to Christians
Why ever not?
because Christ fulfilled the law with His death (see Romans 3-4 and Hebrews 7).
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.Matthew 5:17
This does not mean that homosexuality isn't a sin, although it does mean that we aren't commanded to execute gay people.
Is this the typical biblical rewrite we have come to expect from Christians trying to defend the indefensible. Try reading Leviticus 20:13
" abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Your gods command is clear.
we all deserve death according to the Bible. [.........] we learn that everyone is a sinner. [.........]the penalty for sin is death. In short, you deserve death. So do I. So does everyone. Your question is somewhat misleading because it singles out gay people. The Bible doesn't single anyone out; it tells us that we're all guilty and deserving of death.
This is typical playing down the punishment that simply doesn't fit the crime? This is you simply saying were are all sinners and will all going to die and that we are all in this together while ignoring the bleeding' obvious difference THAT one death is INTENTIONALY terminated before time while another can live a long healthy life. But you simply want to swerve that fact , don't you. You are just another arrogant Christian that believes anyone not religious is simply backward and uneducated without morals and principles or integrity that won't see the obvious flaw in your stupid argument.
Your question is somewhat misleading because it singles out gay people.
Yes, it singles homosexuals out. It singles them out for the death penalty. i.e an early death. There is nothing misleading about it.
Another related point is that the Bible condemns extrajudicial killings.
That's right because that would be murder. We are talking execution here, the purposely intended ending of ones life prematurely and on the order of a RELIGIOUS court that follow the commands and the law of GOD. Your god. Stop trying to bat this vile practice away as if it has nothing to you with god or religion or YOU! YOU adopted this god and his punishments, warts an -all.
Thus, if I were to hear some voice tell me to go murder that person,
Most of us reading here understand perfectly well that we are not talking murder, but execution, the taking of ones life prematurely.
Thus, if I were to hear some voice tell me to go murder that person, I would immediately know that it wasn't from God because God condemns murder.
And what if your god told you to "execute" someone for being say.... homosexual? As per his commands at Leviticus 20:13 . Or even Leviticus 20:9.
I am waiting for that big swerve now.
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@MisterChris
If god told me to do anything, I'd have a heart attack and die from surprise
So would I especially if I ended up in "heaven"!
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@Mopac
For the record, the bible doesn't say to murder. Murder is an unlawful killing.
That's correct. It is a penalty of death for being what you are and made by god , no less! But god never made anything bad at all in the world according to Christians. Except for the earth for instance. It has and always will be an unstable planet and becomes more unstable as it moves through the solar system and when it comes into close proximity with other planets. We know that the movements of the other planets have an adverse effect on our own planet causing the deaths of millions, AND SO Did those controlling priests of old, didn't they?
Indeed it was much more simpler then in past times of ignorance and fear,when priests faced less doubt and opposition to totally control a persons daily life not to mention to enable them to extort ones hard earned earthly goods.
The laws in the bible that prescribe these punishments had to do with the secular government of the Hebrew people.
But Christianity had adopted this god creator of all things and adopted all those words that "he breathed into the book" that causes no one to do anything, according to some , well one that I know of. So by adopting an ancient vile , jealous warmongering god from a culture that they know absolutely nothing about is the burden they must bare . (maybe for their sins, who knows?)
That being the case, executing sodomites was a lawful thing,
Was it a law that you agreed with?
Capital punishment.
Which is still a strict a command all the same and from the same ancient god.
God and homosexuality has been done many times on this forum and is all you will ever get is Christians dancing around the obvious and denying that their god would sanction such a punishment. Such as here #9 and here #22 where we have in one case a qualified Pastor and Chaplin telling us that god actually loves you and doesn't actaully want you dead even though your are an "abomination " in his loving eyes. Christians will even deny these verse actually mean what they say and will rewrite them in the hope of playing down such barbarity . Or to mean the act is much worse that simply engaging in a homosexual act.
It is just as well that you have distinguished between murder and a sanctioned execution. But your mistake was asking the wrong question in this particular case.
You should asked the more posing question of "would you EXUCUTE me as per your gods commands and instructions for being a homosexual? "
The fact is GOD! - in his own words - finds you "an abomination"! Leviticus 18:22. And because you are an "abomination in his eyes", you are to be put to death. That is the strict command of the Christian god, no matter how much they want to deny he would order such a barbaric punishment.
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@Juice
If I were an Islam, you'd be six feet deep in soil.If I were a Christian, you'd not enter heaven and burn for eternity.
Couldn't have that more straighter.
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