Total posts: 8,861
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@n8nrgmi
the trump supporter circle jerk
Does this "circle" actually exist? And what is it?
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@Castin
This passage strikes me as protecting intent to punish but not intent to kill. That is, if your slave survives for a day or two and then dies, you probably didn't mean to kill him; you probably just went too far punishing him. So you shouldn't be penalized in that case - you have merely accidentally destroyed a piece of your property.
Yes it appears that you can beat your slave to the point of near death and if he dies as a result of the injuries of his/her punishment 48 hours after the near death beating that were inflicted by you, it is not your fault and you can simply replace him/her at the local slave auction held twice a week at Yahweh's Auction House.
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It is well worth it to watch all of the biblical quiz , especially the speed round at 1:55. The second speed round 9:51 is just as hilarious.
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@3RU7AL
You might enjoy this,
To paraphrase;
' If can't convince myself some how then I might start questioning others things about Yahweh that don't make sense '.
And we can't have that can we? So what we should do is tell everyone that doesn't believe that millions of every species fitted and existed and survived in the Ark for over 5 months, that they "are missing" and or "do not understand the context". And when asked to put the story into a understandable /believable context we should just run away and pretend that request for context was never asked for.
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@3RU7AL
-->@zedvictor4 wrote: The term "scientific racism"...What does this mean exactly?....Just seems like yet another misinterpretation of the word science.....People are racist, everyone of them, even the ones who think that they are not. #36Stephen wrote:This reminds me of a you tube video (that I cannot find now) about the making of the 1968 movie Planet of the Apes.It was said in the video that when the cast were taking their breaks from filming that the Chimpanzees , Orangutans, the Gorillas and the humans would all sit at the respective species tables without them even realising they had done so, they sat down and ate with 'their own'. It was commented that it was like watching a unscheduled social experiment .-->@3RU7AL wrote: Great example.
I have dug this up .
During the filming of Planet of the Apes in 1967, Charlton Heston noted “an instinctive segregation on the set. Not only would the apes eat together, but the chimpanzees ate with the chimpanzees, the gorillas ate with the gorillas, the orangutans ate with the orangutans, and the humans would eat off by themselves. It was quite spooky.”
James Franciscus noticed the same thing filming Beneath the Planet of the Apes in 1969. “During lunch I looked up and realized, ‘My God, here is the universe,’ because at one table were all the orangutans eating, at another table were the apes, and at another table were the humans. The orangutan characters would not eat or mix with the ape characters, and the humans wouldn’t sit down and eat with any one of them.
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@zedvictor4
The term "scientific racism"...What does this mean exactly?....Just seems like yet another misinterpretation of the word science.....People are racist, everyone of them, even the ones who think that they are not.
This reminds me of a you tube video (that I cannot find now) about the making of the 1968 movie Planet of the Apes.
It was said in the video that when the cast were taking their breaks from filming that the Chimpanzees , Orangutans, the Gorillas and the humans would all sit at the respective species tables without them even realising they had done so, they sat down and ate with 'their own'. It was commented that it was like watching a unscheduled social experiment .
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@RoderickSpode
Numerous verses in the Bible make clear that all men are (created)equal. Like Romans 10:12
Really? Yet the bible speaks as is if slavery and servitude are the accepted norm.
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@BrotherDThomas
NOBODY can be this Bible ignorant all the time
Apart from ethang5, you mean?
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@RoderickSpode
Remember, if the servant dies, it's a death penalty for the master.
Not according to your own biblical example. Your biblical example simply states Exodus 21:20-21
King James Version
20 And if a man smite his servant, or his maid, with a rod, and he die under his hand; he shall be surely punished.
OR
21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.
21 Notwithstanding, if he continue a day or two, he shall not be punished: for he is his money.
Death or the punishment of death is not even mentioned in your example . So where did you get that from?
And with that aside, lets for the sake of argument agree it does mean the punishment will be death, who is it that commands this punishment?
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@ludofl3x
I think that was left in draft, right next to "thou shalt not rape." It's not like you can have TWELVE commandments, so I get it, gotta make sure those graven images aren't all over the place, after all.
Indeed, priority is everything.
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@SirAnonymous
You simply have no answers or excuses to defend the vile actions and commands of your god . So you attempt to throw the onus of proving evil exists onto the questioner.
You are a pathetic coward.
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@TheUnderdog
Noah's ark makes no sense. My contentions with Noah's ark are:1) Noah's ark takes up less space than the titanic, yet holds 4x the passenger count. The titanic was built by many people with great technology. Noah was the sole builder of the ark and he did not have access to the same amount of technology. He probably did not have enough time even in his long life to build the ark.2) In the Titanic, all the passengers used the bathroom. All the animals on the other hand, pooped on the floor. Noah would have to pick up the poop of tens of thousands of animals. He did not have enough time to get this done and he and his crew would have been overrun with poop picking up all on their own.3) Noah and his crew would have to pick up the poop of tens of thousands of animals every single day, probably twice a day or so all in the dark. Electricity was not invented back then, and there was no light getting into the ark except from maybe a window even though window were invented after the flood supposedly happened.
This included all the fresh water to drink and all the different kinds of foods these different animals ate for the five months floating about on the sea. Such as Eucalyptus for the Australian Koala. Bamboo for the Chinese Panda. Leaves of the toxic milkweed plant for the Monarch Butterfly. Prairie dogs for the Black-footed Ferret. Natural fermented nectar of the Bertram Palm for Pen-tailed Treeshrew. And one has to ask how did Noah round up the Echidna and Aardvarks and Wallabies and Kangaroos or the 21 species of animals and birds native only to New Zealand. Then there are those only native to Madagascar such as the Lemurs ,Pochards, Giraffe Weevil, Panther Chameleon and the Tomato Frog?
And one would have thought that a SERPENT! would have been the last thing Noah wanted on his boat considering it was a SERPENT!that corrupted ALL mankind in the first place and caused god to destroy every living thing on it bar a chosen few couples. Yes I do see how ridiculous this all sounds.
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@Tradesecret
I agreed with you that a literal understanding of Noah's Ark was difficult for modern man to understand. This is why I said it needs to be understood contextually and with its purpose in mind.
I am of the same mind as the OP and for many reasons. So instead of using that old excuse concerning context, why do you not break it down for those of us who you say are missing the "context" or do not "understand" the context and put the whole of the biblical story of the flood into a more believable or at least understandable context?
Start here:
Genesis 6: 7 So the Lord said, “I will destroy man whom I have created from the face of the earth, both man and beast, creeping thing and birds of the air, for I am sorry that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the Lord.
I am of the understanding that god created the world and then regretted doing so. He then decides to destroy all of his creation with some exceptions. Am I correct so far and do I have the "context" right?
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@SirAnonymous
it the bible wrong then? Is what god clearly states and commands wrong too.?I don't think so....
And so you make the argument circular . One the one hand you are saying you don't know what you would do in the case of your child cursing you as a parents adding that " for me to know what I would do in any situation I have not experienced". And on the other you say the command to kill your child for this behaviour is not wrong. Leviticus 20:9 . And then on top of this you insist that I first prove evil exist although that in your own scripture the word evil appears in the entire Bible 613 times in 569 verses in 343 chapters in 60 books. The word evildoer appears 2 times and evildoers appears 12 times in the KJV Bible.
The fact of the matter is you are just not brave enough to admit that the bible is wrong to have such a horrific and vicious command from god. But instead choose to throw the onus onto the questioner.
Don't waste your time telling me I have to prove anything, because I don't. The command is there, as is the biblical evidence that evil exist and Christians the world over believe it exists.
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@BrotherDThomas
RoderickSpode,YOUR QUOTE WHERE YOU MISSED THE POINT: "So under this premise, which would be more likely? Infant or adult animals?"What part of this statement of mine didn't you understand?: "SIMPLY PUT, AND WHERE WE PROMISE NOT TO LAUGH FOR THE SAKE OF THIS DISCUSSION, LET US USE "DINOSAUR INFANTS" INSTEAD OF "ADULT DINOSAURS," and leave the thousands upon thousands upon thousands of other “kinds” of breathing life that had to be upon the crowding available space on the Ark for later, okay?"For the sake of a discussion, I am just going with the proposition of "infant kinds of breathing life" (Genesis 7:14-15) upon the Ark because this is the main premise of the thread. Whereas, a pseudo-christian can NEVER say that ONLY animals were placed upon Noah's ark like one embarrassingly did in the past, where this showed the complete Bible ineptness this Christian had! LOL!Both pro and con propositions are troubling, where if a pseudo-christian can actually say there had to be baby animals, fledgling birds, fish frys, insect larvae, and dinosaur hatchlings upon Noah's ark, then how did they "enter" onto the Ark like it is stated in Genesis 7:9 as infants? Whereas, this is just the beginning of trampling upon biblical axioms relating to Noah's ark when "infant breathing life" of all "kinds" are mentioned, understood?Most importantly, how did all of these "infant kinds of breathing life" (Genesis 7:14-15) survive in the Arks environment without the ADULT MOTHERS AND FATHERS providing for them as they would have done in their natural environments? Let alone, and in only "one kind" of thousands upon thousands, upon thousands of "kinds," how did Noah feed 8 pairs of "infant sharks" that had to be in a separate saline water tank to prevent them from eating the "other 'kinds' of fish" upon the waters for 371 days?! A truly Bible inept pseudo-christian mentioned there had to be water tanks on Noah's ark for every "kind" of fish, therefore if he thought this to be true, then so should we!Now, there is no further need to dodge my questions to you in post #4, AND in addressing EVERY proposition within this post as well, is there? Good.++++++++++++++ RoderickSpode, I do have to tell you that it is appreciated that YOU DID NOT RUNAWAY from the obvious complications of the Flood and Noah's ark like a certain Bible inept pseudo-christian did at their total embarrassment within this forum in the past! Good for you! ++++++++++++++
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And it all seems pretty obvious - to me at least - that your words in bold above and from his previous posts-all relate to tradesectret, you can correct me if I am wrong?
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@Tradesecret
Why is it that you have to taint everything you direct at me with "ridicule"?
Your victim- hood is not working. ...... least not on me .
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@Tradesecret
Let's move onto other discussions on other topics.
I am . I asked you two questions above. Did you miss them? Or was they simply too difficult for you to concoct a logical excuse around.
You could always go to this thread and try out the questions you have totally ignored#37
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@SirAnonymous
But then you accept that evil exists , the bible makes it clear that evil exists but you want me to prove that evil exists to discuss evil.Yes, because you can't appeal to the Bible or God as a source of morality because don't believe them.
So it the bible wrong then? Is what god clearly states and commands wrong too.?The onus is not on me. I have simply questioned YOUR gods biblical commands.
So in order for you to say God is evil, you need an objective source of evil apart from God or the Bible.
Nonsense. It is the bible I am questioning and the vile commands of your god.
So I ask again: do you think morality is objective, and if so, where does it come from?
Irrelevant.
Even if you're right and God did command those things
You are reminding me of that dulcet dunce ethag5. He too attempts deny what the bible states : Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death. Because they have cursed their father or mother, their blood will be on their own head."Leviticus 20:9
(I think you're taking them out of context,
It a bit late in the day to throw that oft used line - your taking it/them out of context . But if you believe it to be the case, then why didn't you simply put those vile words of your gods commandment into the correct "context" for me in the first place? I may have had a better understanding of the words. Here you go, put these biblical words into context for me, right now. " Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death."
Unless you have an objective basis for morality, you have no objective basis for condemning God or His commands, regardless of what they are.
I have every right to say your god is a vile and vicious god who kills for no reason and to question his commands and to scrutinize and question the whole of the scriptures. My morality is not the issue as much as you want to throw the onus on me. You have shown to me that you wouldn't carry out your god commands. You have shown me you have better morals and principles than those of your own god and you have shown me that you have more compassion your god ever had.
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@Tradesecret
Given that your responses are obviously all tongue in cheek, i don't see what needs to be replied to.
What an absolute cowardly response.
The story of Genesis indicates in its pages that within centuries of being created humanity as a whole became so evil they did not deserve to live. God agreed with this position and so as the righteous judge properly and lawfully sentenced humanity to be annihilated.
Considering that Genesis - indeed the bible - wasn't even thought about at the time of the flood then tell me, "God agreed"? With whom?
Hence he decided to demonstrate grace towards Noah, his family and either two or seven of every kind of creature, depending upon whether they were clean or unclean and in order for humanity to have a s chance. God knew that humanity did not deserve it. Yet, out of his kindness and mercy, he commanded Noah to build an Ark in which his family and all animals - could enter and be safe.
And did this include all the fresh drinking water and all the different kinds of foods these different animals ate for the five months floating about on the sea. Such as Eucalyptus for the Australian Koala. Bamboo for the Chinese Panda. Leaves of the toxic milkweed plant for the Monarch Butterfly. Prairie dogs for the Black-footed Ferret. Natural fermented nectar of the Bertram Palm for Pen-tailed Treeshrew. And one has to ask how did Noah round up the Echidna and Aardvarks and Wallabies and Kangaroos or the 21 species of animals and birds native only to New Zealand. Then there are those only native to Madagascar such as the Lemurs ,Pochards, Giraffe Weevil, Panther Chameleon and the Tomato Frog?
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@Tradesecret
Are you really saying you don't know that a recent topic I started was closed down?
I have made it clear what I am saying a few times not. So for the forth time. I am saying that you have made a claim ON THIS THREAD about alleged claims made by "others" and have shown absolutely no context or substance for what you claim "others" have claimed.
This is what YOU have claimed : "Some have suggested that God drowned his entire Jewish creation [........ ]in his great Flood Scenario" ,#1
Why you are making a big fkn issue over such a simple request is mind boggling. Just put up the links to what you are claiming "others" have claimed so we can read the alleged claim in its full context.
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@Tradesecret
I want to see the context of the alleged author that you say has said "God drowned his entire Jewish creation" .I can't see how it is relevant to you answering the question.Of course you can't, because you have made it up to create a thread. You are making claims that "others" have made claims but conveniently left out any and all context of the claims.Just point us to the thread/s on which you say the claim/s have been made. It cannot be that difficult. You must have had them at your fingertips seeing that you are able to start a thread about what people are alleged to have claimed.The problem Stephen is that I don't trust you.
Irrelevant.
I think you have an ulterior motive for wanting me to post to that link.
Stop stalling. Simply put up the links to the relevant threads that you allege "others" say "God drowned his entire Jewish creation" .
You know where it is.
No I don't.
Is there any reason why you don't post it
I have asked you right at the start of this thread for the evidence for what you allege "others" have claimed#3 . So don't waste your time trying to throw this back to me sunshine.
- since you know very well where it is and who posted it?
Not to my knowledge. So would you kindly post those links that YOU alleged that "others" claim that "God drowned his entire Jewish creation" instead of arguing about it?
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@Tradesecret
Like I said, sometimes our circumstances just make us doubt. I am talking to a guy who loves his wife and would give his life up for her. He had no doubt - about this at all - and then she cheats on him. It changed everything he thought he knew. John may well have known all these things about Jesus - at least theoretically, but I doubt that he was thinking of Jesus dying on a cross. Jesus told his disciples many times he was going to die - but they did not believe him. And this was despite the fact that they saw him doing miracles etc. Think of Peter, why would someone who could call Jesus - the Christ in one moment - then deny him in the next? Fear. Circumstances. Doubt arising because of what you see is not matching with what you think. This is life. Life is messy. It is hard. And I don't think the bible tries to hide this fact. It in my view gives it authenticity and credibility. It is not saying life is easy and that you will never have problems. But it is saying, you don't need to do it alone. And there is a God who cares for you.
This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ is absolute bullshit!!!! and for many reasons.
she cheats on him. It changed everything he thought he knew.
What had Jesus done that changed Johns mind and caused him to doubt even after a confirmation from the lord god almighty himself? This is the greatest prophet that ever born according to Jesus himself! " King James Bible Luke 7:28
"For I say unto you, Among those that are born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist"
Had Jesus got it wrong too?
John may well have known all these things about Jesus - at least theoretically,
Where is the theory? John had been sent as the forerunner to the Christ to "prepare the way for the lord". He seen the heavenly dove, he "heard the voice of the almighty" himself. What was "theoretical" about what John says he had witnessed? Theory doesn't even enter into it!
Jesus told his disciples many times he was going to die
John was never a disciple of Jesus.
Think of Peter
Why?
Doubt arising because of what you see is not matching with what you think.
Are you saying John was delusional about what he testifies to- after the fact- that he seen "the clouds part" a "heavenly dove" and "heard the voice of god" or are you suggesting John may have been schizophrenic?
It is not saying life is easy and that you will never have problems. But it is saying, you don't need to do it alone. And there is a God who cares for you.
This has absolutely nothing to do with the baptism of Jesus by John. It is simply another example of your filibustering clap trap as is the whole of your quote above.
Tell me, why did John at first sight of Jesus believe that it was Jesus that should be baptising him?
In Matthew 3:14, upon meeting Jesus, John said: "I have need to be baptized of thee"
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@Tradesecret
I want to see the context of the alleged author that you say has said "God drowned his entire Jewish creation" .I can't see how it is relevant to you answering the question.
Of course you can't, because you have made it up to create a thread. You are making claims that "others" have made claims but conveniently left out any and all context of the claims.
Just point us to the thread/s on which you say the claim/s have been made. It cannot be that difficult. You must have had them at your fingertips seeing that you are able to start a thread about what people are alleged to have claimed.
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@Tradesecret
So you are just making it all up then. Or you are purposely missing all of the context of what "some have suggested".Listen I doubt anyone, except someone not so familiar with the scriptures has said what you claim.Why would I make it up? As for someone not being so familiar with the scriptures, lol, that is ironic.I am sure you are capable of looking up who might have asked this question.Is there a reason you are not addressing the question.
I want to see the context of the alleged author that you say has said "God drowned his entire Jewish creation" .
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@Castin
It always seemed weird to me that after John baptizes Jesus, and the heavens open and God speaks out that Jesus is his son, John then later sends out messengers to ask Jesus if he's the messiah. Did John not see the heavens open or hear God's voice? That sounds like it should be pretty convincing.In the same way, it also strikes me as weird that John would send out those same messengers if he knew he had anointed Christ as the messiah king. Why do you think he did that?
I have asked these questions and many others concerning the baptism of Jesus. One this thread of mine that was Part 2 of an ongoing topic. I asked about Johns doubt here>> https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3538-john-the-baptist-part-2-doubt The reply's are ridiculous::
Of the many questions we have to ask ourselves is, if we are to take this story at face value and true then why did John the Baptist want Jesus to baptize him?
In Christianity it is said baptism is an initiation of sorts into the Christian faith and family. Some say it also washes away our sins. So then this raises two more problems and two more questions. (1) This was no Christian ceremony as both Jesus and John were Jews. So what was the reason for baptism of any one of these Jews. (2) What sins had John the Baptist committed to have his sins washed away? Or what sins had Jesus committed to have his sins washed away?
John the Baptist on the one hand tells us he didn’t know Jesus,but if this indeed be the case, then how did he recognize Jesus as “the one to come”.
No one has disputed that John the Baptist had his own disciples before Jesus came on the scene which is just as well as the evidence is overwhelming. And John continued to have disciples after his arrest, which raises one of the biggest questions of all concerning this whole bullshit story. John eventually baptized Jesus, he then, so the gospels tell us that those present seen “a spirit like a dove from heaven”, not only does he tell us what he seen, he also tells what he heard and somehow this confirmed everything for him.
So then, John is totally convinced that he got the right man but then this happens.
John then gets himself arrested by all accounts and so begins to wonder and have serious doubt if he had actually baptized and anointed the right person??!!!! YOU JUST COULDN’T MAKE IT UP!!!
YES!!! The greatest prophet who had “ever lived” was now, even after seeing the spirit descend like a dove, and after hearing the voice of GOD HIMSELF!!!! “saying,this is my son and I love him” he sends some of his disciples to Jesus to ask:
2 When John, who was in prison, heard about the deeds of the Messiah, he sent his disciples 3 to ask him, “Are you the one who is to come, or should we expect someone else?”. Matthew 11:1-3
This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ from the greatest prophet that ever lived.
We have to look at this closely. John The baptist prophesies of Jesus coming , he then witnesses a spirit landing on Jesus like “a dove” and also hears the voice of god,but then has serious doubts about Jesus being “the one”?
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@SirAnonymous
Well this is what you have said above _ " To put it simply, you keep trying to prove that God is evil, but you don't have any way of proving that evil even exists.". : #133So shall we ignore the bible and its 569 verses that all speak of evil existing and dismiss it as nonsense and to be un-provable " that it even exists" ?Note the word "you." I didn't say that I can't prove that evil exists or that no one can prove that evil exists. I said that you can't.
But then you accept that evil exists , the bible makes it clear that evil exists but you want me to prove that evil exists to discuss evil. Well as slippery as you are, you still haven't addressed neither of my questions. i.e , you know what your god commands concerning children that curse their parents Leviticus 20:9 and attempt to bat this vile and evil command away by calling my question about it "silly" and telling me that because you have never been in such a position that, "you don't know what you would do" although your god - in writing - makes it clear exactly what you should do. Your hesitation is telling.
"'Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death. Because they have cursed their father or mother, their blood will be on their own head."Leviticus 20:9
I believe the truth is that you would deny your gods command. proven by your comments here>>
Unless you are a full blown extremist as are millions Muslims who kill their children -especially their daughters - at the drop of an hat and >>>>>WITHOUT QUESTION OR HESITATION<<<<< because the Koran or Allah and the Sunnah or hadith demands it.
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@Tradesecret
Some have suggested that God drowned his entire Jewish creation,Let us see when and who has suggested that god drowned "the entire Jewish nation"?No. This does not address or answer the question or the topic.
So you are just making it all up then. Or you are purposely missing all of the context of what "some have suggested".
Listen I doubt anyone, except someone not so familiar with the scriptures has said what you claim.
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@Tradesecret
If you go back to my OP I never said God agreed with a whom.
The story of Genesis indicates in its pages that within centuries of being created humanity as a whole became so evil they did not deserve to live. God agreed with this position and so as the righteous judge properly and lawfully sentenced humanity to be annihilated.
I said God agreed with the position that story of Genesis conveyed in respect of humanity,
But Genesis, although it is said to be is "god inspired" wasn't written before the flood, was it?
And why is that you always want to discuss what the scriptures don't even mention, when questioned on all things biblical?Firstly, this is not true.
This thread - your thread - proves different doesn't it. You want to discuss things that the scriptures don't even mention. its in the title- your title:
Author:Tradesecret,2 days ago. Does God demand that ONLY adult animals go onto the Ark?
So you accept that neither the scriptures nor god does not mention "ONLY adult animals" but you want to discuss something not mentioned.
I often discuss what the scriptures do say.
So you have grasped the only reason that this religion forum exists.
Why is that you prefer to discuss what the biblical authors haven't even written or what biblical characters don't even say?I do not think that it is a preference of mine at all.
Not true.
I prefer to discuss the bible and to read it in its context.
Well this thread alone shows that to be false doesn't it. Where does it clearly state that god commanded that ONLY INFANT animals enter into the ark? It doesn't does it? But here you are, attempting to make a point and build an argument around something the scriptures do not even state.
Is asking question about what isn't even written in scripture or words not spoken said by Jesus , his disciples or written by the biblical authors, discussing the bible "in context"?
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@Tradesecret
Tradesecret wrote: " Because I take the view that the evidence is there [in the bible] and it is clear."
I have asked you to show us this "clear" biblical evidence the John baptised Jesus a Priest and a King ?
Yet, I also add, that for me this is clear evidence. Hence I did not lie.
So where is it! ?
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The question which needs to be explored is this verse evidence that God commanded babies to be smashed and woman ripped open?" And the answer is no.
I say you will be playing semantics before long. But try this for starters.
(1 Samuel) 15:3
3 Now go, attack the Amalekites and totally destroy all that belongs to them. Do not spare them; put to death men and women, children and infants, cattle and sheep, camels and donkeys.’”
So while your chosen verse only indicates what maybe god will cause to happen, (1 Samuel) 15:3 looks like and reads like a direct command FROM GOD to kill "children and infants," to me. what about you?
We won't go into the sanctioning by god the murder of Jobs children where God boasts to Satan about Job's goodness, but Satan argues that Job is only good because God has blessed him abundantly. Satan challenges God that, if given permission to punish the man, Job will turn and curse God. Job 1:12 The LORD said to Satan, “Very well, then, everything he has is in your power", and all ten children end up dead .
Or will we mention
Psalm 137:9 "Blessed shall he be who takes your little ones and dashes them against the rock!"
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@Tradesecret
Some have suggested that God drowned his entire Jewish creation,
Let us see when and who has suggested that god drowned "the entire Jewish nation"?
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@ludofl3x
And why is that you always want to discuss what the scriptures don't even mention, when questioned on all things biblical?Why is that you prefer to discuss what the biblical authors haven't even written or what biblical characters don't even say?Two GREAT questions, well done.
And I don't expect a single answer to either ludo.
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@Tradesecret
It is the immediate ridicule and scorn of persons attempting to destroy other person's beliefs without actually considering the impact that this will have on them.
This is simply playing victim when stuck for answers. [A] I don't care that you have a belief and I don't care that you have faith. It is what you have a belief and faith in that concerns me.
I have said on many, many occasions on this forum that I have no intention of even attempting to change yours or anyone's beliefs or attempt to turn you from what you have faith in. So just stop playing victim and take up the challenges inspired by your own thread.
Also just to be clear ridiculing a person's beliefs is not analogous to ridiculing them.When you attack a person's beliefs you are attacking that person.
You really wish that was true don't you. You could then play victim at every turn when stuck for a plausible answer supported by facts then, couldn't you?
Of late you have been caught out making things up about the bible and have failed to answer the simplest of obvious questions that all Christians should be asking themselves and have probably felt deflated if not embarrassed when unable to do so . Now you are claiming victim-hood and using this as an excuse not to engage in questions that your own thread has provoked. You have even attempted to limit this thread - your thread - to one simple yes or no answer. I gave you what you wanted yet you have failed on a number of occasions to afford me the same courtesy such as here when I asked you :
- is Jesus also the god Yahweh /Jehovah, yes or no? Is all you did was skirt the question with answers such as , "Jesus is god" when I specifically asked you ; is Jesus also the god Yahweh /Jehovah, yes or no?
When their beliefs are being attacked and ridiculed, are unable to separate themselves from the argument and their identity.
Being unable to distinguish between the two is their/your problem. I have made myself extremely clear at [A] above and not for the first time on this forum.
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@Tradesecret
I am addressing questions which some believe need to be answered.
Then try addressing these questions I asked above, that I believe you should answer:
The story of Genesis indicates in its pages that within centuries of being created humanity as a whole became so evil they did not deserve to live. God agreed with this position and so as the righteous judge properly and lawfully sentenced humanity to be annihilated.
"God agreed" With whom?
And why is that you always want to discuss what the scriptures don't even mention, when questioned on all things biblical?
Why is that you prefer to discuss what the biblical authors haven't even written or what biblical characters don't even say?
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@Tradesecret
Does God demand that ONLY adult animals go onto the Ark?
No. <<<There, OP question addressed. But why is that you always want to discuss what the scriptures don't even mention when caught on the back-foot and cornered by your own BS and word salad?
The story of Genesis indicates in its pages that within centuries of being created humanity as a whole became so evil they did not deserve to live. God agreed with this position and so as the righteous judge properly and lawfully sentenced humanity to be annihilated.
"God agreed"? With whom?
Hence he decided to demonstrate grace towards Noah, his family and either two or seven of every kind of creature, depending upon whether they were clean or unclean and in order for humanity to have a second chance. God knew that humanity did not deserve it. Yet, out of his kindness and mercy, he commanded Noah to build an Ark in which his family and all animals - could enter and be safe.
This included all the fresh water and all the different kinds of foods these different animals ate for the five months floating about on the sea. Such as Eucalyptus for the Australian Koala. Bamboo for the Chinese Panda. Leaves of the toxic milkweed plant for the Monarch Butterfly. Prairie dogs for the Black-footed Ferret. Natural fermented nectar of the Bertram Palm for Pen-tailed Treeshrew. And one has to ask how did Noah round up the Echidna and Aardvarks and Wallabies and Kangaroos or the 21 species of animals and birds native only to New Zealand. Then there are those only native to Madagascar such as the Lemurs ,Pochards, Giraffe Weevil, Panther Chameleon and the Tomato Frog?
I suppose we have to expect yet another load of word salad explaining what the bible also doesn't say.
And one would have thought that a SERPENT! would have been the last thing Noah wanted on his boat considering it was a SERPENT!that corrupted ALL mankind in the first place and caused god to destroy every living thing on it bar a chosen few couples. Do you not see how ridiculous this all sounds.
I addressed your OP just in case you missed it here it is again.
Does God demand that ONLY adult animals go onto the Ark?
No. But why is that you always want to discuss what the scriptures don't even mention when caught on the back-foot and cornered by your own BS and word salad?
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@SirAnonymous
The question you asked is difficult, but that doesn't prevent it from being silly
Why is my question about the command from god to you to kill your children if they curse or dishonour you, silly?
The answer to all such questions is the same. I've never been in those situations, so I don't know what I would do.
Thankfully you haven't , but this doesn't distract from the cold hard fact that your god commands that children that curse or dishonour their parents be put to death. You may not know what you would do, but you know what your god commands you to do, yet you seem to have no issue with this vile command in the slightest.
I'm not trying to say that I doubt that evil exists.
Well this is what you have said above _ " To put it simply, you keep trying to prove that God is evil, but you don't have any way of proving that evil even exists.". : #133
So shall we ignore the bible and its 569 verses that all speak of evil existing and dismiss it as nonsense and to be un-provable " that it even exists" ?
As you pointed out, the Bible provides a strong basis for the existence of evil.
Yet you say it is un-provable " that evil even exists". #133 Do you not believe what your god inspired scriptures say about the existence of evil?
Rather, I was asking you if you have an objective basis for evil. So I ask again: do you thing morality is objective or subjective? If it's subjective, then nothing is objectively morally wrong, so your argument that God is immoral collapses. But if it's objective, then what is it based on? Again, I'm asking you.
Asking questions of your own in response to my questions is not answering my question. You theist seem to think by doing this that you have addressed the issue raised.
What you have done is deny what the bible - your own scriptures - say about the existence of evil and then posed a question of your own, which is irrelevant. It matters not what I believe is objective or subjective. So stop avoiding what are genuine questions concerning your god and your scriptures.
Although, I have addressed your question above at post # #134
SEE HERE>>>>>>>Apart from gods own hypocrisy of thou shall not kill then immediately orders Moses to murder thousands of his own people?
"And the LORD said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel".
Why didn't god do his own evil dirty work? <<<<<<<<
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@SirAnonymous
Or are you saying that you would kill my children because I do not have a belief of faith in god, if your god told you to do so?It is impossible for me to know what I would do in any situation I have not experienced.
But do you not have a loyalty to your god and his commandments? And, for instance, does not your god command that a child that curses his parents be put to death? yes , here we are :
"'Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death. Because they have cursed their father or mother, their blood will be on their own head."Leviticus 20:9
So would you then kill your daughter if she cursed you or "dishonoured" you in any way?
You may as well ask me whether I would shoot my mother to save my father,
But I didn't ask that. Stop being silly. I asked you something that involves your god and your holy scriptures.
what type of bread I would want on a manure sandwich,
But I didn't ask that, Stop being silly. I asked you something that involves your god and your holy scriptures.
or any other number of useless hypothetical questions.
I think you mean any number of difficult questions. You need to learn the difference.
The answer to all of them is, "I don't know. I've never been in that situation."
So then concerning your loyalty to your god and his commands such as commanded in Leviticus 20:9, you are saying you don't know what you would do, although your gods instructions are clear?
I strongly disagree with you that God is evil.
So then considering that you belief your god is not evil and can do no wrong, why are you hesitant to commit to an answer to my questions, when the command is clear in the extreme?
But even if He is, you have no basis to condemn Him, or anyone else.
That is only your opinion and you are welcome to it.
If all you have is the natural world, then you don't have an objective basis for morality.
Again that is your opinion and what you believe of me is irrelevant.
To put it simply, you keep trying to prove that God is evil, but you don't have any way of proving that evil even exists.
The bible makes it clear that evil exists or have you never read it for yourself? Isn't this why Christians ask the lord to "deliver us from evil". If it doesn't exist then there is nothing or need of your god / Jesus to deliver us from, is there? Or are you saying you are not sure that evil exists? Or you don't believe evil exist although the bible makes it clear many times that evil is real and it exists? Or is the bible wrong?
And incidentally, the word evil appears in the entire Bible 613 times in 569 verses in 343 chapters in 60 books. The word evildoer appears 2 times and evildoers appears 12 times in the KJV Bible. Why does it appear so many times if you doubt evil even exists?
I'll ask again: do you have any objective basis for condemning God's actions? If so, what is it, and where does it come from?
Apart from gods own hypocrisy of thou shall not kill then immediately orders Moses to murder thousands of his own people?
"And the LORD said unto Moses, Take all the heads of the people, and hang them up before the LORD against the sun, that the fierce anger of the LORD may be turned away from Israel".
Why didn't god do his own evil dirty work?
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@n8nrgmi
there's a good message at the heart of the gospel...
What is this "good message"?
Jesus taught a kingdom of love, and the golden rule which everyone can understand,
Are you suggesting that no can understand or experience love unless one becomes religious and believes in a god?
and there's hope for an afterlife
Just because someone says there is an afterlife- if you are religious and believe in god, obviously - doesn't mean that there is one.
and an answer to the meaning of life too...
Oh I can agree on that. The bible itself makes perfectly clear the reason for which we were created; " there was not a man to till the ground."Genesis 2:5 , which amounts to slavery. Odd isn't it that scientist say that the planet and its ecosystem would do perfectly well without man being on it:
SCIENCE NEWS
Humans are causing life on Earth to vanish
this is great news.
No it isn't, slave.
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@SirAnonymous
Then you have more morals and compassion than your own god. Congratulations.Not really. You missed the key words that it "isn't a valid reason for me to kill anyone."
That's right. It shows your compassion. A compassion that your god simply does not possess. Or are you saying that you would kill my children because I do not have a belief of faith in god, if your god told you to do so? Such as he does here:
2 Chronicles 15:13 but that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman.
Luke 19:27 27 But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.’”
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Totally wrong.BLM was created in response to Trump's America.
Black Lives Matter is a decentralized political and social movement advocating for non-violent civil disobedience in protest against incidents of police brutality and all racially motivated violence against black people. Wikipedia
Founded: 13 July 2013
The following is a timeline of the Presidency of Barack Obama, from January 1, 2013 to December 31, 2013. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_the_Barack_Obama_presidency_(2013)
Biden was vice president during this time.
Must try harder vic.
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@Greyparrot
No, they don't. The people have a lot to answer for by willingly giving those elites under Biden's America a free pass to fuck up the country with no media oversight.BLM was created in Biden's America with full support from the media.2015 was the terrible year you never heard of.
I stand corrected and that is an interesting link. Thank you
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@SirAnonymous
Would you kill my children because I don't have the faith that you have?No. No, you not having the same faith I have isn't a valid reason for me to kill anyone.
Then you have more morals and compassion than your own god. Congratulations.
Your god doesn't agree:
2 Chronicles 15:13 but that whoever would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, should be put to death, whether young or old, man or woman.
Luke 19:27 27 But as for these enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, bring them here and slaughter them before me.’”
So basically your god will kill anything and anyone simply for not believing. For he " so loved the world".
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@Tradesecret
Oh Stephen, well done - so insightful. He does not believe in the god of the bible. he believes in the god of his own mind.
That is not for you to say. He says his god is Yahweh/Jesus. Who are you to tell anyone what he does or doesn't believe in. And considering he appears to know these scriptures better than anyone on this religion platform, it cannot be denied that he is well informed on the vile and vicious behaviour of his god which appears to be the same god that you have faith in.
His interpretation only takes into account the things that the Brother wants to take into account.
That is not true. He has tackled many aspect of his god and the scriptures. You just don't want to afford him any credit. He has left you with egg on your face many a time.
He refuses to refer to the other parts of the bible which promote God in a different light.
Not that old chestnut. Why don't you start a thread of your own on the god that you believe in that shows him in a more generous light ..... if you can.
In fact he steers clear of these passages and only ever focuses on stuff he figures is negative.
Being open honest about his god is not negative. But why don't you start your own thread showing these "nice passages"
I use the phrase "he figures is negative" because in the context of the whole bible and in fact for the largest proportion of the Bible - God is always portrayed in a different light.
Then lets see this other side of your god. Let us see if his bad outweighs his good. Let us see this "different light" . You mention it a few times now, so simply start a thread.
Yet the Brother omits this truth.
What truth?
Yet the Brother omits this truth.And so do you.
You are always welcome to counter everything and anything I say about your god and the scriptures. But you/Christians never can without rewriting the bible, or putting words into the mouths of the biblical authors and characters therein. And making up complete and utter lies. Would you like one or two examples?
God is not vicious. He is not vile. He is not a psychopathic. He is not egotistic. He does believe in war - as I do. He is jealous which incidently in his case is a good thing. He is tolerant only of the good which is one reason you find him vile.
No. I highlighted more than one reason. In fact I find god, your god to be vile because of ALL the unjust suffering he has poured over ALL of mankind because of the actions of one single being of his own fkn creation.
I have said and I will repeat - Jesus was born in the NT. He was not in the OT. To claim Jesus is in the OT is nonsense.
I have asked you many times now if or not Jesus is Jehovah/ Yahweh and simply say yes or no. Is all you keep coming back with is "Jesus is god". in other words you totally swerve the question and tell me that you have answered me.
The bible does not make this claim. Christians do not make this claim.
Christians do make that stupid claim , I agree. So are YOU now saying that the god of the Old Testament is not the same god portrayed in the New Testament? And that Jesus is not the God of the Old Testament god Jehovah /Yahweh?
Only those wanting to provoke nonsense arguments make this claim.
I see. Ethang5 et al are all liars and are simply making this argument for the sake of it. Well now why doesn't that surprise me one single bit>
Yet - it is also true that Jesus is the Son of God,
You have no proof of that. Others may well have called him A son of god. But did Jesus call himself that? Or did he specifically and clearly call himself "son of man"? I have told you before, all ancient kings were called sons of god.
When Jesus said "before Abraham I am" he was referring to the second person of the Trinity, the Son, not Jesus.
Are you making crap up again. What he actually said was "I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.John 8:58" Did those who invented the early 3rd century"trinity" doctrine even know about the Abraham from thousands of years before and who he was? I doubt it.
including intellectual honesty.Don't make me laugh. You have claimed things about the bible that simply are not true and have been called on the fact and to support your claims but refused via extremely lame excuses. #30Stop telling lies. I always answer. If I don't know an answer I say so.
No you don't and haven't and neither have others like you when called out on their biblical claims.
Where in the bible is the "clear evidence" you spoke of that you say shows John the baptist anointed/baptised Jesus a priest and king?
#18 " I take the view that the evidence is there[in the bible] and it is clear.
Where in the bible does Jesus say " the number of Christians would dwindle to almost nothing before He returned"? #17
No you have just added words - just like you insert words in every opportunity you can - to try and rewrite history and the bible.
Let me see some examples of me inserting words into the bible and rewriting history.
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@SirAnonymous
What basis do you have for condemning God's justice (or anything else) beyond your own personal preference?
That's simple. "Gods justice " is unjust to anyone with the slightest of morals and who has read about god's justice in practice.. The sad story of Job and the sanctioning BY GOD of the murder of all job's children leaps to mind. Job 1: 18 - 19
Now one for you.
Would you kill my children because I don't have the faith that you have?
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@Tradesecret
I see your game as one who provokes and bullies until you get what you want. Perhaps this is the reason you are so spiteful towards a being you say you do not believe in.
On the contrary. The Brother believes in the god of the bible, warts and-all. This is the Brothers struggle. Your god and the Brothers god are the same vicious, vile, psychopathic, egotistic, warmongering, jealous and intolerant god.
Christians and you tell us that Jesus is god from the beginning. The first and the last god. The Alpha and the Omega. I can see the Brothers dilemma, where as you simply ignore the facts and cannot accept that Jesus - by your own christian dogma - is also the god of the Old Testament.
including intellectual honesty.
Don't make me laugh. You have claimed things about the bible that simply are not true and have been called on the fact and to support your claims but refused via extremely lame excuses. #30
But we warned. I will not respond to [very difficult questions] . In other words, I will call [ difficult questions] rubbish and leave them [unanswered] in the bin.
I have corrected that for you.
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@zedvictor4
Unfortunately the choice of slogan "Black Lives Matter" is overtly racist, discriminatory and provocative.All Lives Matter, would have been more noble, inclusive and less provocative.
It would considering the majority of support for this movement founded by three black women all seem to be nasty whitey.
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@Greyparrot
Total failure of leadership.
It was. Biden, Obama, and all the Democrats in power have a lot to answer for, don't they?
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@Lemming
[ -->@Tradesecret] I find you a reasonable person, who can often speak of some aspect of their religion in an easy to understand, insightful way.
Don't kid yourself. He will soon hit you with more word salad and filibustering than most can handle once you have posed him a prickly religious question.
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@oromagi
I'm not sure why you'd title this thread "America Speaks"
That maybe is because (1) you missed the title of the video + (2) you are maybe on the dense side.
except to deceive.
I put up a video. This video >>>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GX78KEJb2lo
I could hardly deceive anyone. People can make their own minds up as to the reliability of the the stats in video.. Which show that " black people kill 11 times !!!! more black people than do white people". 2018 _ Of the 2,925 Black or American Black people murdered, 2,600 of those were Black on Black murders hence, "black lives don't matter to black people".
The states in the video by the way are FBI stats which is an AMERICAN organisation. Or didn't you know that? Yes, FBI = Federal Bureau of Investigation. Maybe this is why the publisher so titled his video as he did. Yes just 11 seconds in, the first screen shot CLEARLY shows the FBI Data Table 6 2018 Crime in the United States.
I won't go one any further as you perfectly understand the content of the video and its point is simple : "black lives don't matter to black people"..... except when killed by whitey.
Here endeth the lesson. Off you go now.
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This 6 minute must come as comforting news to any upstanding, clear minded American .
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