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@Mopac
The truth of the matter is that most atheists don't really understand what their position means because they don't really understand what God means.
And what precisely does " god" mean to the fawning sycophantic theist?
Because according to the bible these gods are flesh and blood beings that could be argued with. Asked questions face to face and reasoned with, asked to reconsider things and change their minds and even physically wrestled to the ground. They eat and drink, just like any other flesh and blood being.
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Not as much as I used to. Religion and ancient history has always been 99 % of my speciality reading for 40 + years. It is extremely rare for me to read fiction unless it has been bought for me as a present etc.How much time every day do you devote to studying and thinking about religion?
I have just read The Genius Of The Few - The Story of Those who Founded the Garden in Eden - by Christian and Barbara O'Brien.
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@janesix
What makes an atheist obsessed with religion?
It is in most cases not an obsession as such but a healthy interest. In my case I believe much of what the bible has to say and treat it as an historical study. I do believe it holds information about our origins but not the "fairy tail" manner in which much of it is presented. I believe all the biblical characters existed. I believe the OT is a book of war once the creation verses has been read.
I believe men fought the wars of flesh and blood gods who couldn't even live in peace amongst themselves. I believe it is all about bloodlines and hereditary the accensions and coming to power of very much flesh and blood gods and human kings.
I find the bible one of the most fascinating pieces of literature ever written as I do the history of Mesopotamia.
So it is not a "obsession" in my case buta healthy interest and one I have had over 40+ years.
But ddo/dart atheists seem to be obsessed with it. Why?
Because this is a place to debate religion basically.
The reason for that is because people including atheist as a rule, do not discuss religion outside of religious circles. I don't hardly mention "religion" when I am out with friends down the pub or my family unless someone else happens to bring up the subject.
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@keithprosser
I think the writer is presenting a mythical explanation for why the Hebrews - unlike many of their neighbours - sacrificed animals but not their children to their god.
Says the man who tells us- "As an atheist I don't bother with the miraculous or magical elements of Bible stories - they can be junked straight away." and that "After many years I have concluded that almost none of the Gospel story is based on actuality." Post 19 https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/518
I think the writer is presenting a mythical explanation for why the Hebrews
Is all "the writer" had to say - if anything at all - was that the Hebrews didn't practice the savagery of child sacrifice of other nations/tribes and their Gods. He didn't have to make the great epic long winded song and dance out of it about sacrifice and burnt offering and tied up rams and only sons and the lord demanding the death of a child.
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@keithprosser
I think this thread should be about why
But it isn't , it is my thread not yours. it is about what i have chosen it to be about , and not what you want is to be about or what you think it should be about. Why does this always seem to go over your head. And you should start a thread of your own giving your own speculations on your own thread.
Why haven't you ever done that. Instead of cluttering up other peoples topics with your nauseating "speculations" about something you have categorically stated you do not believe.
Yet to my knowledge you haven't started a thread asking this very question, have you? Why don't you show me where if you have done so. I would be very interested to read your speculations as to why the gospellers even took the time to write bible stories that "can be junked straight away." according to you.
keithprosser wrote: Post 19 As an atheist I don't bother with the miraculous or magical elements of Bible stories - they can be junked straight away. So in regard to something like the nativity I'm not bothered with the virgin birth nonsense, but it is interesting whether Jesus Was born in Bethlehem for instance,
You seem to have forgotten the obvious:
WelI no I didn't forget that did I, stop lying . I have responded to it haven't I.
Or did you miss what I wrote? in case you did this is what I wrote post 75 in response to you "stating the bleeding obvious".
Stephen wrote: Now you resort to stating the bleeding’ obvious , Well thought through 10/10.
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Of course, part of his anger
hahahhahahah. Clown.
I have no anger at all about these unreliable scriptures. I do though have questions and opinions about them that you simply cannot handle and do not like. Get used to it and get over it. I have plenty more questions I know you can't answer.
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@keithprosser
I speculate on the writer's motivation. The only thing we can rely on is that someone sat down and wrote the text.
Now you resort to stating the bleeding’ obvious , Well thought through 10/10.
“We can't know “
Tomorrow you will accuse me of putting “ quotes around words” you “didn’t write”. AGAIN!
I'm not very interested speculating on why Pilate washed his hands...
I should think not....considering that this thread is about Abraham's lack of ability to work out that "A Great Nation would NOT spring from him” if he was to carry out his gods orders.
I am interested in speculating why the gospellers said he did.
"Speculate" the reasons on a thread of your own then. Although you say you don't like "speculating" for lack of a "time machine"
Post 17 As you (probably!) know I Don't really like speculating about 'what really happened' because without a time machine we will never know, but I don't deny its fun to speculate!
I am interested in speculating why the gospellers said he did.
Yet to my knowledge you haven't started a thread asking this very question, have you? Why don't you show me where if you have done so. I would be very interested to read your speculations as to why the gospellers even took the time to write bible stories that "can be junked straight away." according to you.
Post 19 As an atheist I don't bother with the miraculous or magical elements of Bible stories - they can be junked straight away. So in regard to something like the nativity I'm not bothered with the virgin birth nonsense, but it is interesting whether Jesus Was born in Bethlehem for instance,
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@Castin
Concerning your link above which states :Concerning #4: The Jewish views on the subject are interesting.
"The Jewish PublicationSociety suggests Abraham's apparent complicity with the sacrifice was actuallyhis way of testing God".
Thou shalt nottempt the Lord thy God. The World English Bible translatesthe passage as: ... In full Deut 6:16 reads "Do not test the Lord your God as you did atMassah." This is a reference to the events of Exodus 17:5 where theIsraelites wandering in the desert doubted God was with them.
Luke 4:12
Jesus answered, "It is said: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"
just a thought ^^^^^
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When his family heard about it, they set out to take charge of him, because people were saying, "He's gone mad!"
When his friends heard it, they went out to seize him: for they said, "He is insane."
When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, "He is out of his mind."
And when his friends had heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him. For they said: He is become mad.
When Jesus' family heard what he was doing, they thought he was crazy and went to get him under control.
Yes they did think he was crazy as verse above attest to and had to take control of him, because they were there, they were related to Jesus and they would know a family member a lot better than you.
I ask you again, who are you to contradict the Virgin Mary who is held blessed among all women the Holy Mother of God Jesus?
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@keithprosser
I consider the historical parts of the bible to be fiction or propaganda,
Yet refer to them as “historical”.
it's very naught to put quotes around words I did't write.
Didn’t you?
Maybe I should write the words "words to the effect" when referring to something you have actually said concerning biblical matters such as "we will never know" , and you have said "we weren't there" and you have said you are an atheist so a combination of all of the above would suffice.
Here are just a few reminders:
Post 19 As an atheist I don't bother with the miraculous or magical elements of Bible stories - they can be junked straight away. So in regard to something like the nativity I'm not bothered with the virgin birth nonsense, but it is interesting whether Jesus Was born in Bethlehem for instance,
After many years I have concluded that almost none of the Gospel story is based on actuality.
Post 17 As you (probably!) know I Don't really like speculating about 'what really happened' because without atime machine we will never know, but I don't deny its fun to speculate!
Post 22. My assumptions are that Abraham and isaac never existed - they are characters in a story, like Sherlock Holmes and Watson.
Post 29 What really happened cannot be known or ascertained,
Post 33 I think it is impossible to know what -if anything - really happened;
Post 48 there isn't enough material to decide between them as to 'what really happened'.
Post 64 Jesus getting cruficied is an episode in a written tale and at this distance in time there is no way to know if it 'really happened' at all.
Post 64 But I don't like to speculate about 'what really happened' because AFAICT there is no way of knowing.
Post 69I would say that it's entirely possible that Barabbas never existed and was invented by the gospellers to make a good story.
For someone who "doesn't like speculating", you speculate more than any other person on the religion forum about things you categorically tell us you do not believe.
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@ethang5
"When his family heard about it, they went to get him. They said, "He's out of his mind!"
Who are you to contradict his BIRTH MOTHER!!!
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it simply states there was a rumor going around
Nope. No mention of "rumour" in the scripture. His own family though he was mad.
example:
"When his family heard about it, they went to get him. They said, "He's out of his mind!"
Who are you to contradict his BIRTH MOTHER!!!
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@ethang5
Stephen wrote:That is because it actually states the they all thought he was mad
ethang5 replied They thought, jasper. They thought.
Not true and more lies. why do you insist on lying and attempting to rewrite the bible?
LOOK it mentions NOWHERE that these people including his family just simply " thought" he was mad. They stated it as fact and it has been written as such
LOOK you clown. everyone else can read it except you and that other fawning sycophant.
YOU WILL NOT EVEN SEE THE WORDS " THEYTHOUGHT" IN THESE BIBLICAL EXAMPLES BELOW BAR ONE MODERN BIBLE WRITEN IN 1991
When his family heard about it, they set out to take charge of him, because people were saying, "He's gone mad!"
When his friends heard it, they went out to seize him: for they said, "He is insane."
When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, "He is out of his mind."
And when his friends had heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him. For they said: He is become mad.
And when His own people heard of this, they went out to take custody of Him; for they were saying, “He has lost His senses.”
And his relatives heard and they went out to take hold of him, for they were saying, “He has gone out of his mind.”
When his family heard what was happening, they tried to take him away. "He's out of his mind," they said.
And when his family heard it, they went out to seize him, for they were saying, “He is out of his mind.”
When His family heard about this, they went out to take custody of Him, saying, “He is out of His mind.”
And those belonging to Him having heard, went out to seize Him; for they were saying, "He is out of His mind."
When His own people heard of this, they went out to take custody of Him; for they were saying, "He has lost His senses."
And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.
When his family heard this, they set out to restrain him, because they said, "He's out of his mind."
When His family heard this, they set out to restrain Him, because they said, "He's out of His mind."
When his family heard about it, they went to restrain him, because they kept saying, "He's out of his mind!"
When his family heard this they went out to restrain him, for they said, "He is out of his mind."
And when his family heard it, they went out to take charge of him: for they said, "He is out of his mind."
When his family heard about it, they went to get him. They said, "He's out of his mind!"
And when his friends and family heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him; for they said, He is beside himself.
When Jesus' family heard what he was doing, they thought he was crazy and went to get him under control.
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I'm not aware of any passage in the Bible which spells out that God meant "legitimate heir"
Because there aren't any in this case. I believe as you do it has everything to do with Issac being his only son by his first and official wife. But this isn't in the bible either. The subject of favouritism - some suggest nepotism - of one child over another is all to do with the rightful - first born heir of the official wife as was the rules back in Abraham's own land of birth Mesopotamia . He was simply adhering to the rules of ascendancy. It is as simple as that.
For christians to even acknowledge this brings them great problems simply because the god of Abrams god - as he was named - is a different god to that of the hebrews and the Christians. When Abraham was ordered to up sticks and travel to Canaan. he arrived there neither being Hebrew or Jew.
Abraham was aware of the conflict and perhaps questioned it, but said nothing.
Not mentioned in the scripture so again we have to submise and assume. Not acceptable to christians
Abraham believed God would still fulfill the promise, just without Isaac.
Not mentioned in the scripture so again we have to submise and assume. Not acceptable to christians
Abraham somehow knew Isaac's death was never a possibility and that God would intervene.
Not mentioned in the scripture so again we have to submise and assume. Not acceptable to christians
Abraham believed God had the power to even bring Isaac back to life once the test was over.
Not mentioned in the scripture so again we have to submise and assume. Not acceptable to christians
A combination of two or more of these.
Not mentioned in the scripture so again we have to submise and assume. Not acceptable to christians
As I have already explained; all the above would be quite good and reasonable explanations for what is, on the surface a silly unexplainable story that doesn't show this so, so loving god in any-kind of favourable light.
The Mopecs and ethang5's of the world simply refuse to accept anything that is not in the scripture -- UNTIL IT SUITS THEN TO DO SO.
As for prosser, he often makes his stance clear of what he believes concerning the "unprovable thousands of years old scriptures" because we weren't there and puts them all down to BS . Yet when I started a thread on Joseph he was the first to tell me who Joseph's god was although the name of Joseph's god is never revealed in the scriptures.
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@ethang5
You stupidly think the Bible is saying Jesus was crazy.
That is because it actually states the they all thought he was mad and insane and unbalanced and had lost his mind. What gave the people and his own family reason to believe that?
Nothing in the bible needs to be played down,
But you have admitted that anything negative about Jesus would have been left out and " not noted". .
This is what you have wrote at post 100 page 4 above >>>
ethang5 wrote : If it was as bad as you think, the bible would not have noted it.
The gospel writers tell us there was nothing bad about Jesus.
Lets see where it states that then and I will believe you. Until then I can say with confidence that knowhere do these scriptures state any such thing, you liar!
Stephen wrote: All of those DIFFERENT gospels do not even mention the words "MAY BE".
Ethang5 replied: They don't have to homer. Peoples thoughts are not necessarily true. "they thought he was crazy". So what?
Then why do you say they do say " may be"? yes and these people - his mother and brothers - were actually there weren't they? Surely they would know the state of this madman's mind much better than you. Why should I not believe these witnesses.
Get over yourself fool, you don't read your scriptures and the bits you have read you don't understand.
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@Paul
Intriguing Paul. When will we witness this enlightenment?I posted it in the religious forum because I have something to tell religious people that will not offend them but will enlighten them in a non threatening fashion.
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22 Some time later God tested Abraham. He said to him, “Abraham!”
“Here I am,” he replied.
2 Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.” New International Version (NIV)
“Here I am,” he replied.
2 Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.” New International Version (NIV)
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@Paul
What is the difference between animated matter and inanimate matter?
What is the significance. Is this actually a question concerning religion? Is the question actually questioning religion? if so tell us/me how.
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@ethang5
The bible contradicts you.
No the bible contradicts itself you clown. And they just keep rolling on like that old man river. Here, but have your breakfast first, won't want you spitting all your cereal all over the children, now would we.
Who was the father of Joseph, husband of Mary?
Jacob (Matthew 1:16)
Heli (Luke 3:23)
Jesus descended from which son of David?
- Solomon (Matthew 1:6)
- Nathan(Luke3:31)
- Jechoniah (Matthew 1:12)
- Neri (Luke 3:27
- Abiud (Matthew 1: 13)
- Rhesa (Luke 3:27) But the seven sons of Zerubbabel are as follows: i.Meshullam, ii. Hananiah, iii. Hashubah, iv. Ohel, v.Berechiah, vi. Hasadiah, viii. Jushabhesed (I Chronicles 3:19, 20). The names Abiud and Rhesa do not fit in anyway.
- Joram (Matthew 1:8)
- Amaziah (2 Chronicles 26:1)
- Because the priests bought it with the blood money (Matthew 27:8)
- Because of the bloody death of Judas therein (Acts 1:19)
Is the law of Moses useful?
- Yes. All scripture is... profitable... (2 Timothy 3:16)
- No. . . . A former commandment is set aside because of its weakness and uselessness... (Hebrews 7:18)
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@ethang5
Now you. No one is going to remember you 5 years from now. You will forever be thought of as a loopy kook.
Just look at what you wrote there you imbecile. One the one hand I am not going to be remembered at all. THEN YOU SAY I will be FOREVER thought of......... hahahahhahahahahhahahhahahh.
You just cannot help yourself can you. Try praying for some common sense and literacy skills next time you down on your knees.
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I don't think you're wounded at all.
I am glad you worked that out for yourself. Your not much good at anything else especially understanding your own scriptures.
If it was as bad as you think, the bible would not have noted it.
SO THEY WOULD HAVE LEFT IT OUT THEN? So you are admitting then the these gospel writers would and do hide things that they deem to be embarrassing and go against the general belief of Jesus and his nature
it's just people saying they thought Jesus may be beside Himself.
Stop trying to play this down AND STOP TELLING LIES. All of those DIFFERENT gospels do not even mention the words "MAY BE". So stop trying to rewrite the scriptures.
LOOK>>>
because people were saying, "He's gone mad!"
for they said, "He is insane."
for they said, "He is out of his mind."
For they said: He is become mad.
for they were saying, “He has lost His senses.”
"He's out of his mind," they said.
for they said, He is beside himself.
YOU SEE: NOT A SINGLE MAY BE IN ALL OF THOSE DIFFERENT BIBLES.
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@ethang5
O dear. I am so, so wounded by the thought of "everyone" here is thinking I am as mad and insane as the gospels say Jesus was.So basically the same things everyone here says about you.
JUST LOOK AT ALL THE BIBLES AGREEING THAT JESUS WAS MAD AND INSANE;
When his family heard about it, they set out to take charge of him, because people were saying, "He's gone mad!"
When his friends heard it, they went out to seize him: for they said, "He is insane."
When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, "He is out of his mind."
And when his friends had heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him. For they said: He is become mad.
And when His own people heard of this, they went out to take custody of Him; for they were saying, “He has lost His senses.”
And his relatives heard and they went out to take hold of him, for they were saying, “He has gone out of his mind.”
When his family heard what was happening, they tried to take him away. "He's out of his mind," they said.
And when his family heard it, they went out to seize him, for they were saying, “He is out of his mind.”
When His family heard about this, they went out to take custody of Him, saying, “He is out of His mind.”
And those belonging to Him having heard, went out to seize Him; for they were saying, "He is out of His mind."
When His own people heard of this, they went out to take custody of Him; for they were saying, "He has lost His senses."
And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.
When his family heard this, they set out to restrain him, because they said, "He's out of his mind."
When Jesus' family heard what he was doing, they thought he was crazy and went to get him under control.
When His family heard this, they set out to restrain Him, because they said, "He's out of His mind."
When his family heard about it, they went to restrain him, because they kept saying, "He's out of his mind!"
When his family heard this they went out to restrain him, for they said, "He is out of his mind."
And when his family heard it, they went out to take charge of him: for they said, "He is out of his mind."
When his family heard about it, they went to get him. They said, "He's out of his mind!"
And when his friends and family heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him; for they said, He is beside himself.
HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHHAHAHHAHHAH
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@disgusted
I believe that to be the case.The point is that they can't, because there are no answers available using honesty.
prosser is a strange one though. One minute he's banging on about how these thousands of years old scriptures aren't true at all and basically complete BS from beginning to end, and then spends pages and pages giving us his in depth nauseating opinion of all what these scriptures could mean and then adding " but we will never know we wasn't there". By this standard of his we may as well discount all the history ever written as BS.
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@Castin
You prefer people who actually believe in this book to answer your critical questions about it?
I do prefer, but not solely . Because they- the believers - should be able to handle these questions, without crying and blarting about how nasty I am and that I am only here to " turn people away from the lord" etc etc.
Are you saying you don't want atheists like me and keith lumbering in your way
I don't think I suggested any such thing although prossor is as boring and nauseating as ethang5 sometimes and never hardly comes off the fence on way or another.
going "blah bleh bleh atheist guesses blah bleh bleh purely anthropological interest blah bleh bleh ahurpa durpa"?
Yes just like that. A very good prosser impression, you could be one and the same person.
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@ethang5
You sound crazy too
So you do mean like in the Jesus sense, then? Mark 3: 21 TAKE YOUR PICK HAHAHHAHAHAH
And when his friends had heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him. For they said: He is become mad.
And when His own people heard of this, they went out to take custody of Him; for they were saying, “He has lost His senses.”
And his relatives heard and they went out to take hold of him, for they were saying, “He has gone out of his mind.”
When his family heard what was happening, they tried to take him away. "He's out of his mind," they said.
And when his family heard it, they went out to seize him, for they were saying, “He is out of his mind.”
When His family heard about this, they went out to take custody of Him, saying, “He is out of His mind.”
And those belonging to Him having heard, went out to seize Him; for they were saying, "He is out of His mind."
When His own people heard of this, they went out to take custody of Him; for they were saying, "He has lost His senses."
And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.
When his family heard this, they set out to restrain him, because they said, "He's out of his mind."
When Jesus' family heard what he was doing, they thought he was crazy and went to get him under control.
When His family heard this, they set out to restrain Him, because they said, "He's out of His mind."
When his family heard about it, they went to restrain him, because they kept saying, "He's out of his mind!"
When his family heard this they went out to restrain him, for they said, "He is out of his mind."
And when his family heard it, they went out to take charge of him: for they said, "He is out of his mind."
When his family heard about it, they went to get him. They said, "He's out of his mind!"
And when his friends and family heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him; for they said, He is beside himself.
When his family heard about it, they set out to take charge of him, because people were saying, "He's gone mad!"
When his friends heard it, they went out to seize him: for they said, "He is insane."
When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, "He is out of his mind."
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@Castin
This whole thing was a test of Abraham's unquestioning obedience of God. So why are you asking why Abraham obeyed God without question?
Yes I know it was a cruel sadistic test of loyalty as was the same test of Job where god killed all of Job's children,destroyed all of his livestock and tore down his house, just to prove a point over a bet . I am asking, how was it that Abraham couldn’t work out that a great nation would not spring from him as god had promised if he had murdered his only son.
I'm not as interested in picking over the minutia of biblical inconsistencies.
Then simply do not respond. I didn’t ask you to and I didn't beg you to and no one has forced you to. But the fact is there. A glaring fact that Isaac was not Abraham's only son as this god says he was.
You may think highlighting this biblical contentious contradiction from GOD HIMSELF is "minutia", but I do not. God here was wrong or lying or the writers didn’t know what they were talking about. This is why it is contentious.
I suppose my only guess would be that God was referring to Abraham's only legitimate son.
I believe this to be the case and I am glad you said that. But in suggesting that you then run into a problem right away with the Christians here, because you see the bible doesn’t actually state that, the theist clowns here wouldn’t accept that as an explanation. I have raised ideas and had opinions of many of these scripture but have been shouted down with the age old mantra of : “ if it ain’t in the bible it ain’t true”. So guessing is out of the question as far as these clowns are concerned.
Besides why would they accept this extra NONE biblical explanation and not others? The answer to that would be : because it suites them to.
This is why prefer to listen to what the theist clowns here have to say to explain away these anomalous , contradictory, vague and ambiguous verses that are the scriptures.
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Who wasn't his ONLY son was he?
By Sarah and by the promise? Yes
The bible does not state that at all does it you clown? Show me where god tells Abraham to offer as a "sacrifice your only son by your wife Sarah".
You can't because it doesn't state that you LIAR!!!!!
It's in the text Jed. You just didn't read it.
Yes you spout this crap regularly but never produce the evidence. Your just a liar trying to explain away these anomalous embarrassing stories and your no good at it. You keep pulling your hair out my friend, while I sit back and watch you do it.
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@ethang5
You sound mad. In both senses of the word.
what do you mean? Like in the jesus sense? Mark 3: 21 TAKE YOUR PICK HAHAHHAHAHAH
When his family heard about it, they set out to take charge of him, because people were saying, "He's gone mad!"
When his friends heard it, they went out to seize him: for they said, "He is insane."
When his family heard about this, they went to take charge of him, for they said, "He is out of his mind."
And when his friends had heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him. For they said: He is become mad.
And when His own people heard of this, they went out to take custody of Him; for they were saying, “He has lost His senses.”
And his relatives heard and they went out to take hold of him, for they were saying, “He has gone out of his mind.”
When his family heard what was happening, they tried to take him away. "He's out of his mind," they said.
And when his family heard it, they went out to seize him, for they were saying, “He is out of his mind.”
When His family heard about this, they went out to take custody of Him, saying, “He is out of His mind.”
And those belonging to Him having heard, went out to seize Him; for they were saying, "He is out of His mind."
When His own people heard of this, they went out to take custody of Him; for they were saying, "He has lost His senses."
And when his friends heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him: for they said, He is beside himself.
When his family heard this, they set out to restrain him, because they said, "He's out of his mind."
When Jesus' family heard what he was doing, they thought he was crazy and went to get him under control.
When His family heard this, they set out to restrain Him, because they said, "He's out of His mind."
When his family heard about it, they went to restrain him, because they kept saying, "He's out of his mind!"
When his family heard this they went out to restrain him, for they said, "He is out of his mind."
And when his family heard it, they went out to take charge of him: for they said, "He is out of his mind."
When his family heard about it, they went to get him. They said, "He's out of his mind!"
And when his friends and family heard of it, they went out to lay hold on him; for they said, He is beside himself.
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@Mopac
I'm not interested in arguing scripture with you. You don't respect it.
Then don’t respond at all you sycophantic fawning clown. My reasonable questions are far too uncomfortable for you. They are questions you haven't even ever considered because you haven't read the scriptures for yourself.
I charge before the Lord that you..."strive not about words to no profit, but to the subverting of the hearers."
“hearers” ? I think you mean readers and I am not too concerned about what you “charge me with”. Just answer the questions.
And truly, you oppose yourself. You Are captive in the snare of the devil.
Well at least you can tell your elders that you have met a devil. John The Baptist had a devil too don't you know?
For John the Baptist came neither eating bread nor drinking wine; and ye say, He hath a devil. Luke 7:33
Have you ever once stopped to consider that it just may be you that is captive “in the snare” of your religious teachers and your church.
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@Castin
This whole thing was a test of Abraham's unquestioning obedience of God. So why are you asking why Abraham obeyed God without question?
Yes I know it was a cruel sadistic test of loyalty as was the same test of Job where god killed all of Job's children,destroyed all of his livestock and tore down his house, just to prove a point over a bet . I am asking, how was it that Abraham couldn’t work out that a great nation would not spring from him as god had promised if he had murdered his only son.
I'm not as interested in picking over the minutia of biblical inconsistencies.
Then simply do not respond. I didn’t ask you to and I didn't beg you to and no one has forced you to. But the fact is there. A glaring fact that Isaac was not Abraham's only son as this god says he was.
You may think highlighting this biblical contentious contradiction from GOD HIMSELF is "minutia", but I do not. God here was wrong or lying or the writers didn’t know what they were talking about. This is why it is contentious.
I suppose my only guess would be that God was referring to Abraham's only legitimate son.
I believe this to be the case and I am glad you said that. But in suggesting that you then run into a problem right away with the Christians here, because you see the bible doesn’t actually state that, the theist clowns here wouldn’t accept that as an explanation. I have raised ideas and had opinions of many of these scripture but have been shouted down with the age old mantra of : “ if it ain’t in the bible it ain’t true”. So guessing is out of the question as far as these clowns are concerned.
Besides why would they accept this extra NONE biblical explanation and not others? The answer to that would be : because it suites them to.
This is why prefer to listen to what the theist clowns here have to say to explain away these anomalous , contradictory, vague and ambiguous verses that are the scriptures.
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Lol, you're losing it Jed. Don't get so worked up.
I'm not worked up at all, my friend. It is the christians here who are becoming unbalanced and "worked up" over the embarrassing verses and questions I am highlighting.
We know you're saying Jesus was not dead.
So do I what's you point you sycophantic mess?
And no one claims Jonah was dead,
I didn't say anyone has. But for some strange reason Christians like yourself seems to think that when Jesus spoke of Jonah being in the whale for three days, that this somehow had something to do with Jesus being dead inside the tomb for three days. This is not true. Jesus was not dead.
The bible contradicts you.
No the bible contradicts itself you absolute clown. here are just a few of the thousands of contradictions you deny even exist.
Here beat yourself with your own stick for a change , I am fed up of doing it for you :
According to the Gospel of John, what did Jesus say about bearing his own witness?
- If I bear witness to myself, my testimony is not true (John 5:3 1)
- Even if I do bear witness to myself, my testimony is true (John 8:14).
- Did Judas kiss Jesus?
- Yes (Matthew 26:48-50)
- No. Judas could not get close enough to Jesus to kiss him (John 18:3-12)
- Yes (John 19:17)
- No (Matthew 27:31-32)
- No. I have said nothing secretly (John 18:20)
- Yes. He did not speak to them without a parable, but privately to his own disciples he explained everything (Mark 4:34). The disciples asked him Why do you speak to them in parables? He said, To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given (Matthew 13: 1 0-11)
- Yes (Matthew II: 14, 17:10-13)
- No (John 1:19-21)
Would Jesus inherit Davids throne?
- Yes. So said the angel (Luke 1:32)
- No, since he is a descendant of Jehoiakim (see Matthew 1: I 1, I Chronicles 3:16). And Jehoiakim was cursed by God so that none of his descendants can sit upon Davids throne (Jeremiah 36:30).
- By a revelation from heaven (Matthew 16:17)
- His brother Andrew told him (John 1:41).
- Yes (Mark 6:8)
- No (Matthew 10:9; Luke 9:3)
How many fighting men were found in Judah?
- Five hundred thousand (2 Samuel 24:9)
- Four hundred and seventy thousand (I Chronicles 21:5).
- Twenty-two (2 Kings 8:26)
- Forty-two (2 Chronicles 22:2).
- Eighteen (2 Kings 24:8)
- Eight (2 Chronicles 36:9).
- Forty thousand (I Kings 4:26)
- Four thousand (2 chronicles 9:25).
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Because that isn't what happened.
I know. I asked why and you AGAIN have failed again to answer it haven't you, you coward. Shows how stupid the story really is doesn't it when laid bare.
Why didn't Jesus simply turn the Earth into a cotton candy gumdrop land where bullets make people giggle, and there are puppies and kitties in every cloud?
I don't know you clown. but that wasn't my question was it?
Here is my question try answering it !!
Why didn't Jesus simply eradicate leprosy instead of just curing a few lepers?
AND YOU HAVE SKIPPED THIS ONE AGAIN TOO!!!!
And where about is the "kingdom of heaven"? Come on now. that should be easy enough for you to answer. You spout it enough times.
"Then said Jesus, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do."
Thankfully, I do know what I do. I pose questions from these unreliable scriptures to clowns like you that I know you just cannot answer logically and with common sense..
Get mad
I can't get mad at watching you wriggle like the little worm you are. But i do get some satisfaction every time you fail to defend these unreliable scriptures.
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@Plisken
You asked a question,
I did
haven't worked out anything.
I have worked out immediately that if god made me a promise of building a nation from me, then this couldn't happen if I was to kill my only son.
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And where about is the "kingdom of heaven"? Come on now. that should be easy enough for you to answer. You spout it enough times."At the same time came the disciples unto Jesus, saying, Who is the greatest in the kingdom of heaven?
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@Mopac
You reject anything contrary to your conclusions,
Stop it, you drama clown You offer nothing at all to counter my argument or even answer my questions.
so I have determined that answering your questions
You have never answered any. Try this one that I have asked you ten times now:
Why didn't Jesus simply eradicate leprosy instead of just curing a few lepers?
What you believe is not what the church teaches.
Well there's a surprise! The operative words here are "what the church teaches".
And what you are doing may overthrow the faith of some,
Drama, drama, drama,That is not my intention and I don't believe I could and never have believed that. Just offering up an opinion on how I read these scriptures and asking questions that you simply cannot answer and do not like because they make you uncomfortable and are hard for you to face.
even children, who don't know better.
No sunshine. That will be you who has been indoctrinated from birth.
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How do you work out something that is literally impossible?
Well I managed to reason it out on my first reading of the story.
Is all Abraham had to ask himself was 'if the lord has promised to make a great nation from me, how can this be if he is now asking me to murder and burn my only son to a crisp as a sacrifice.?
Do you now see how simple that is.
And Isaac wasn't Abraham's only son either, was he?
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This passage has been explained countless times and you still don't get it.
LIAR!!!
Why should anyone listen to you.
I have no idea. I haven't begged you to come to my thread. You came all on your own accord. I don't care what you think of me, it is irrelevant.
What are your credentials?
What are yours. Listening to others instead of studying for yourself, I don't doubt. You just seem a part of the clown circus as far as I am concerned , Now address the OP of leave the thread. I am not begging you to remain here being a nuisance.
You are a nobody.
To some people I may be.
A troll.
No. I just have questions concerning the scriptures that you seem to find embarrassing and awkward.
Many people who are way smarter have explained this story.
I know the story you boring tit. I just don't see how this clown Abraham couldn't work out that the promise from his god couldn't come to fruition if he were to carry out his god's orders to murder his son.
They have degrees.
That's a new one YAAAAAAAAWWWN
They have studied Scripture for decades.
Yes, well I have over four decades invested in studying these biblical scriptures.
I'll listen to them.
Just as I thought. I know you do. instead of listening to them, you should study them for yourself. You will find a completely different story to the one you have been "listening to" and fed over the years..
Have a nice day.
I nearly always do.
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@Mopac
You hate the scriptures,
No. I disagree with them for the most part. I find them interesting as any historian would.
you hate Jesus,
Nope. wrong again. Never met the man. I just think the gospel writers are hiding the truth about him and his story.
you hate Christianity,
Wrong again.
you hate Christians.
Wrong again
I wish for you to come to repentance and acknowledgment of The Truth.
When you start addressing my questions I may find I have something to "repent" for. until then. I have nothing to be concerned about.
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There should not be any doubt that Abraham was about to sacrifice his son.
I agree. but for some clown reason, ethang5 doesn't believe this to be the case. He is actually trying to re-write the bible, AGAIN.
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@Grugore
You are missing the entire point of the story. Typical.
You are missing the bleedin obvious. Why was not Abraham able to work out the there wouldn't be a "great nation built from him" if he killed his only son that wasn't his only son?
I understand the cruel and sadistic loyalty test involved here. God was very keen to show us how cruel and sadistic he could actually be even to the innocent.
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hahahhahahahhahahhahahha WHAT A TOTAL CLOWN!!!!!!!!!the founder of Christianity had no denomination,
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ts in the text of the bible you didn't read. Issac was Abraham's only son inside the promise given by God. It helps you not to look like an idiot if you first read the passage you want yo oppose.
Stop making things up.
Because God couldn't give him another son?
I haven't said that. I have said he had other sons. So Issac wasn't his ONLY son was he, you dunce.
Sons Of Abraham
Because God could not raise the dead son back to life?
So where does it say, : "Abraham sacrifice your ONLY son and I will raise him from the burnt ashes once you have murdered him and set him of fire?
You are so desperate to explain this crap away you are just making more crap up.
Because you're too stupid to figure simple stuff like that out?
I am not. But Abraham was "too stupid" to work out that god would be going back on his promise to build a "great nation" from him if he was to kill his ONLY son. Who wasn't his ONLY son was he?
Get over yourself. This story is nonsense and you know it.
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@Mopac
Really? Report me? All these times you called me a clown and I never reported you.
Being likened to a clown that you are, is not anywhere near being aligned and associated with mass murder of MILLIONS and suggesting that I "condoned that sort of thing". What you have accused me of is of the most vile nature of human actions ever.
You are sick if that is the best you can come up with to counter anything I have posted and your god and your gospels.
LOOK AGAIN AT WHAT YOU WROTE YOU ABSOLUTE VILE CHRISTIAN.
Mopac WROTE : If atheists all agree, I will from now on associate you with the atheistic Soviet Union that killed millions of my brothers in faith and did everything they could to destroy the church...... I wouldn't be surprised if you condoned that sort of thing.
The way you crusade though, you might as well be consenting to us Christians being put into mental hospitals and tortured to death while sadists say things like..
It is the scriptures that I have a problem with you disgusting vile clown.
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@ethang5
Gen 22:2 - And he said, Take now thy son, thine only son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and get thee into the land of Moriah; and offer him there for a burnt offering upon one of the mountains which I will tell thee of.
You responses are slightly retarded not to mention sly and deceitful.
Then God said, "Take your son, your only son, whom you love--Isaac--and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you."
"Take your son, your only son--yes, Isaac, whom you love so much--and go to the land of Moriah. Go and sacrifice him as a burnt offering on one of the mountains, which I will show you."
The LORD said, "Go get Isaac, your only son, the one you dearly love! Take him to the land of Moriah, and I will show you a mountain where you must sacrifice him to me on the fires of an altar."
He said to him: Take thy only begotten son Isaac, whom thou lovest, and go into the land of vision: and there thou shalt offer him for a holocaust upon one of the mountains which I will show thee.
And you have also failed to address the point of Isaac NOT being Abraham's only son and you have not addressed the fact the dimwit Abraham couldn't world out for himself that there would be no nation coming from him if the order to murder his son was carried out.
But there again, your dimwittery is on par with the Abrahams, so I wouldn't expect anything less from a boring, nauseating clown such as yourself.
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Because people live "in the Earth" right?
No. People live ..... ON ...... the earth you nauseating clown.
Because the phrase "in the Earth" was not euphemism for being dead and buried.
That is right! He was alive when they took him from the cross. As I have been saying all along, you boring tit!
And neither was Jonah dead "in the belly of whale" as he was said to be praying to his god. You cannot be dead and praying can you? You stupid A hole
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@ethang5
Did Jesus even predict that he would be dead for three days?
Yes. In the OT and NT
No he simply said he would be in the earth for three days. Not a single mention of death .
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God did not ask Abraham to kill his son, God asked him to offer his son.
You really love being smacked with your own stick don't you? here>>>
Genesis 22. 2 Then God said, “Take your son, your only son, whom you love—Isaac—and go to the region of Moriah. Sacrifice him there as a burnt offering on a mountain I will show you.”
What was expected to do then, burn him to death without hurting him. You clown
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If atheists all agree, I will from now on associate you with the atheistic Soviet Union that killed millions of my brothers in faith and did everything they could to destroy the church...... I wouldn't be surprised if you condoned that sort of thing.
What an absolutely disgraceful thing to say!!!
Atheist agree that there is no god, you FKN idiot!!!! I have reported your disgusting comment,
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@keithprosser
The problem I have with your threads is that its not clear if you are saying a) a real person called abraham was backward, or b) the character in a story is backward or c) whoever wrote the story must be backward.
It shouldn't matter either way. But that said why didn't you simply ask.
My assumptions are that Abraham and isaac never existed - they are characters in a story, like Sherlock Holmes and Watson. The writers of genesis invented the episode to make a point about child sacrifice.
Again you are concentrating on the sacrifice. Start your own that thread on it if your that engrossed and obsessed by that part of the tale.
My point, my whole point of the thread , the point you keep avoiding is the promise made to Abraham that couldn't possibly be fulfilled if he had killed his NOT only son and that Abraham was too dim work this out for himself.
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I agree. I believe most, if not all of the OT characters existed. I have never found a single reason not to believe they didn't exist.Even if you don't believe the story is accurate, it seems perfectly reasonable to believe that Abraham was a real person.
But this is not my point of the thread IS IT, YOU CLOWN!! So either address my points about Abraham's stupidity and lack of power of deduction or simply leave the thread. You haven't even attempted to address my questions on your own childish comments.
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