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@IlDiavolo
I certainly do.And if you had read for yourself anything about the Annunaki/gods, they make it quite clear the reason they created THE Adam in the first place and so does the bible in a veiled fashion. I can guarantee you this, if the bible is to be believed even in part, the biblical god gives absolutely no reason whatsoever for creating THE Adam other than to toil & till the land. And ask yourself what does "till" in this BIBLICAL sense mean? You will find a clue here> Genesis 2:11-13. Let me know if you are confused and I will spell it out for you.Was the human created only to extract gold? It doens't make sense.
It makes every sense when the Sumerians actually state this as a matter of fact in their cuneiform tablets themselves and the bible alludes to this too although in a veiled fashion.. And of course, all this depends on what one chooses to believe.
Put it this way. We have a brand newly created bunch of humans collectively called THE Adama. And the bible places him/them right in the place where these noble stones and metals are located:
Genesis 2:11-15King James Version
11 The name of the first is Pison: that is it which compasseth the whole land of Havilah, where there is gold;
12 And the gold of that land is good: there is bdellium and the onyx stone.
13 And the name of the second river is Gihon: the same is it that compasseth the whole land of Ethiopia.
14 And the name of the third river is Hiddekel: that is it which goeth toward the east of Assyria. And the fourth river is Euphrates.
15 And the Lord God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it.
Take note of the word -stones. Anything mineral that came out of the ground was simply referred to by the ancients as "stones". Such as diamonds, gold, rubies, platinum, paladium , silver etc etc.
Tell me. What was the point of even mentioning the precious metal called gold that the ancients referred to as "noble" and the bible mentions over 160 times? And the ancients called "exotic"?
What use would these stones/gold have been to a brand new , right out the wrapper human being; the Adama?
The "gods" certainly had an interest in them, Why? Going so far as to grade the gold specifically as " Good". And how did the Annunnaki /gods know about them?
You see, unless your research and answer these questions for yourself can you never begin to understand what the fk was going on hundreds of thousands of years ago before the bible was written and more specifically, why?
You also have to research for yourself the nature of these "gods" that you believe were highly advanced and highly intelligent.
Remember what your teacher told you, "knowledge is power".
As then some were, and some are still. Whichever rout you take, you should eventually get to realise that what went on in the times of the ancients is still going on to this very day, and in every sense you can think of..You mean that theory of aliens partnering with the most powerful families in the world?
No.
I mentioned above : the hierarchy of the priesthood especially, they would rename themselves after "gods & angels". #8 You either missed it or didn't catch on to what I was stating. So to make it clear; The person that impregnated the Virgin was the acting "Gabriel", <<< it was a title. Another example would be the "angel" that was said to have appeared to confirm Jesus' status as the " son of god" <<< another title. And the title of this confirming "angel" was "dove" which is a reference to the biblical character Noah and a symbol of peace.Alright, I always had the idea that Gabriel was a real alien impregnating Maria. All the same, it doesn't make sense to me because it's difficult to believe that the jews considered a priest as a divine being, that would have been a blasphemy as well as Jesus deeming himself as "son of god", it was a blasphemy.
Well then you have completely misunderstood what I have said. They were simply TITLES! It doesn't mean they considered themselves "divine beings" or divine angels.
And I have explained already "Angel" simply means messenger, which could be any person that considering himself religious and believes in god and his "message" .
Jesus "son of god" is a fkn TITLE . The kings David and Solomon were called/ TITLED "son's of god". In fact the whole nation of IS-RA-EL were "sons of god " at one time. Read your bible.
You have a long way to go IlDiavolo, but stick at it.
It took me over 40 years to get to where I consider myself to have a just reasonable idea about what I believe the ancients were all about. But I couldn't prove anything I believe.
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@IlDiavolo
Expressions like “the glory of God” or “the spirit of God” means nothing but “an outstanding mass that comes from the sky”, in short, a spacecraft.Where did you find this interpretation?It's in the link:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kih1mdMhoo8&t=5s - KAVOD is translated as "glory" but it means "heavy object that stands out".https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7FD_FdZtMWk&t=1121s - RUACH is translated as "spirit" but it means "gust of wind" caused by an object.
I may make the effort when I have more time.
From what I can make out Mauro Biglino Born in 1950 didn't write his first book until just 12 years ago, which by his own admission states that his work "is based on" two of the authors that I have already mentioned to you on this thread>> #33. So I have probably already got the gist of what Biglino has to say without rushing out to buy any of his work.Biglino has then, as the saying goes, built on the back of giants. Which he is more than entitled to do as long as he credits them in his own work and it furthers the hypothesise.Well, I suggest you see the description of his books before buying any of them. As far as I know, he just translates the bible as it should be, and compares it with other ancient manuscripts to expose similarities. He provides support for his work with the opinion of genetisists and exegetes.
And that was my point. Biglino is coming on the shoulders of giants- those that have been writing about this theory for decades and well before he jumped on the "alien intervention" band wagon. He admits it himself.
I have said many times on this forum that if we were to super impose many of todays sciences over some of the events in the bible that we may well come to a clearer understand of what those ancients were trying to convey. The creation of Eve is a good example of 21st century genetic engineering. The creation of "Eve" Genesis 2:21-23 just it two short verses raises many questions, but we are simply expected to take it a face value and not question it . One being, why did "god" go through all the bother of the operation of having to anesthetise the Adam, open him up, remove a "rib" and stitch him back up when he could has simply created Eve, "the mother of all living" from the same dust as the bible says he created the Adam from?This is the most interesting part of Biblino's work, the creation of Adam and Eve. It's a shame there isn't any video about it in english, but I will try to explain it as best I can:- Adam was not a person but a group, so it's not Adam but Adamits.- Adam was not the first man of humanity but a new race. There were already humans (or proto humans like the homo erectus) in the earth before Adam.- Adam was not created but produced in a lab by means of cloning, then Adam was placed in the Eden Garden around 4,500 BC.- "Eden Garden" means "a protected and fenced garden", so the Adamits had it all, food and animals.- Eve was produced by cloning Adam, the aliens extracted Adam's mother cells from the area of the ribs.- Apparently the aliens wanted a new race to work for them. I'm not sure where Biglino gets that information but this is what he says in his conference.
Well if you read my post above. I, as I often do when the biblical Adam is the subject, refer to THE Adam as a collective i.e. a specifies and not a single person as I did above and now highlighted in the quote above. I had already mentioned to you on another thread HERE>#33 that THE Adam was created somewhere else and then relocated to the E-DEN. And this is what the bible clearly suggests. Read Genesis 2:7 and then read genesis 2:15.
Well it has to be proven that "the gods" Elohim, came from somewhere other than earth. But it is as good a theory as any that the "gods", that is to say the Anunnaki deities came from some place other than earth. Read Alfords, When The Gods Came Down. You might like it.It's not the only theory but the most accepted.
Indeed it is accepted as a "theory", it is all theoretical /hypothetical. A very reasonable one too as I explained above, its as good a theory as, if not more plausible than, the biblical explanation for creation.
Other researchers, like Graham Hancock, think these aliens are actually the survivors of the last cataclysm in the earth, meaning an ancient civilization that reached a great technological advance and managed to escape from the earth. Others think that they are humans from the future who have full control of the time and travelled back to know more about their past.
Well to my knowledge Hancock's work only ever covers lost civilisations and ancient lost knowledge . I have never known him to venture into the realm of the "ancient alien" theory. I still have some of his work.
Well, when we consider the biblical account of the time since god/s decided he didn't want to remain with man any longer, all contact with "god/s" came through is said to have come via dreams.IMO far too much is made of these dreamlike encounters unless some remained behind. Which, if I remember correctly, the Sumerian epics claim to be the case.. Truth is, who knows?But if you keep in mind that the hierarchy of the priesthood especially, they would rename themselves after "gods & angels" when they reached a certain point in the priesthood training. And this practice is still the case to this day in the Roman Church in particular. An, as you may already know, the word "angel" means nothing more than - messenger.It is also worth keeping in mind too that anyone that is more educated than the illiterate & superstitious around them can claim anything, including to have received messages came from "god". Pastors and Priests do so all the time....for a living.Well, you and Zed have all the right to be skeptic because you didn't have direct experience with that, but I put it forth because it's common place when it comes to ufology, you will see it in any book about UFO/UAP.
Scepticism is an excellent tool for any researcher. You appear to be confusing it with outright dismissal which neither "zed" nor I have done. I do have good reason to believe a lot of the Old Testament stories and the characters within. I cannot say the same for the New Testament in the state it has come down to us, and that has always been my position since the day I joined this forum. So don't make the mistake of confusing me with some ignorant bible dunce of a Pastor that accepts, without question, the Bible as the " perfect and faultless word of god" and considers anything extra biblical as heretical and taboo.
Well they could be wrong. And it would depend on who you mean by "us". Do you mean you, me or any working class Joe.? "The god/s" made it clear that they nor there messengers were to have nothing to do with humans and certainly didn't want us to be educated if the bible is to be believed. We were, as the bible makes clear, created to do there bidding because; " there was no one to till the Earth". and that we were to have only a limited amount of knowledge to perform ours or theirs simply everyday tasks.Do you think so?
I certainly do.
And if you had read for yourself anything about the Annunaki/gods, they make it quite clear the reason they created THE Adam in the first place and so does the bible in a veiled fashion. I can guarantee you this, if the bible is to be believed even in part, the biblical god gives absolutely no reason whatsoever for creating THE Adam other than to toil & till the land. And ask yourself what does "till" in this BIBLICAL sense mean? You will find a clue here> Genesis 2:11-13. Let me know if you are confused and I will spell it out for you.
If they turn out to be actual mother fuckers, well, at least we tried it. Lol.
As then some were, and some are still. Whichever rout you take, you should eventually get to realise that what went on in the times of the ancients is still going on to this very day, and in every sense you can think of..
Well I believe that you are "noticing" something that isn't there. Jesus was a revolutionary that believed or was led to believe that he was the rightful king and heir to the throne of Jerusalem and had come to unite the tribes of Is -Ra - El and free his people (Jews only) from the Roman yoke and turn them back to their original god and roots. You after remember that "his people" had been under the rule of Greeks for 500 years and the Romans for about 200 years before Jesus was even - as they say- a glint in the milkman's eye.According to Biglino, Jesus was a hybrid because Maria was impregnated by the "angel" Gabriel. So, I don't know, I think he could have been part of the alien plan if he really existed.
I am beginning to wonder if you read everything I have replied to you? I mentioned above : the hierarchy of the priesthood especially, they would rename themselves after "gods & angels". #8 You either missed it or didn't catch on to what I was stating. So to make it clear; The person that impregnated the Virgin was the acting "Gabriel", <<< it was a title. Another example would be the "angel" that was said to have appeared to confirm Jesus' status as the " son of god" <<< another title. And the title of this confirming "angel" was "dove" which is a reference to the biblical character Noah and a symbol of peace.
We do what we can with the limited knowledge we possess. Only some bastards take the piss and serious literary licence. The Pastor and the Priest are fkn famous for doing it, and have been for millennia. The gotta make a living I suppose, just not on my back, fkn leeches.Talking about bastards, I noticed Tradesecret didn't participate yet in this thread.
Believe me, that can only be a good thing. But, as much as he has denied it, you can guarantee that the ignorant bible dunce will be reading every word I write and regretting doing me the big favour of blocking me😁
Do you think he's alright? Lol.
I don't particularly care. But he's never been right.... about anything, and that's a fact.
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@hey-yo
.... you have made ascensions that simply cannot be supported .Assertions?
Yes, I meant assertions.
Chico the bible has nothing to do with what you say.
What do you mean by "nothing to do with what you [I] say"?.
My assertion is on your comments -along with others, in earlier posts - provide inherent meanings to given statements.
And I only asked you to support your own assertion "Instead we understand God created a biological human to coexist with the Son.
What part of the scriptures causes you to believe that "God created a biological human to coexist with the Son. "?
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
And a merry Christmas to the followers of Islam.
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@hey-yo
I did not say anything was a biblical fact except that God did not have sex.
I know "god" didn't have sex and that wasn't my point. My point was that you have made ascensions that simply cannot be supported .
But you haven't read your bible have you? The bible claims that Jesus the Messiah will come from "the seed" of David.
I have covered this point very recently with your new buddy Seth-Clown, who, just like you. didn't know the first thing about the scriptures.
Start here and lean something>> https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/10080-in-the-bible-was-jesus-from-the-flesh-of-david?page=2&post_number=50
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@IlDiavolo
There was a lot to get through in your OP, IlDiavolo. So I'll touch on just some of the things you have stated.
Expressions like “the glory of God” or “the spirit of God” means nothing but “an outstanding mass that comes from the sky”, in short, a spacecraft.
Where did you find this interpretation?
Mauro Biglino
From his own Bio:
During only the past ten years,
"He had many chances to discuss with countless experts (including biologists, archeologists, engineers and medical doctors) which supported his hypotheses concerning the possibility that the Bible might contain clear tracks about the true origins of humanity. In his view, the Mankind might have been “manufactured” by a community of non-terrestrial beings, the Elohim, that have later been turned into divinities by Mankind itself. Among these beings one in particular stands out: Yahweh. In Mauro Biglino’s faithful reading of the Old Testament, Yahweh is simply the “ruler” of one the many Hebraic families, that of the Israelites".
From what I can make out Mauro Biglino Born in 1950 didn't write his first book until just 12 years ago, which by his own admission states that his work "is based on" two of the authors that I have already mentioned to you on this thread>> #33. So I have probably already got the gist of what Biglino has to say without rushing out to buy any of his work.
Biglino has then, as the saying goes, built on the back of giants. Which he is more than entitled to do as long as he credits them in his own work and it furthers the hypothesise.
I don’t believe in bogus theories
Define "bogus theory", for me.
I’m not saying that the evolution of species cannot occur as Darwin said, but this theory cannot explain how human beings appeared all of a sudden in this planet, I mean the timings and archeological rests just don’t square.
I agree in part. Where humans stand, evolution for me only appears to make sense up to a point. And then in my opinion, there seems to be a giant leap. It's as if humans, that is to say" homo sapien sapien or upright thinking man , just seemingly appears out nowhere and living in cities of Mesopotamia including Uruk, Akadia Babylon and others.
Many studies concluded that human beings share the same evolutionary characteristics of the domesticated animals.
Only Apes. Which doesn't explain how or why the other humanoids died out. After all, the Chimpanzee is still with us and has remained a chimpanzee.
The hypothesis of the ancient astronauts says that the controlled environment is the Eden Garden and the genetic modifications were carried out by these aliens using their own genetical information, which explain why we look so similar to them: “Then God said, ‘Let us make mankind in our image, in our likeness, so that they may rule…’”, Genesis 1:26.
I have said many times on this forum that if we were to super impose many of todays sciences over some of the events in the bible that we may well come to a clearer understand of what those ancients were trying to convey. The creation of Eve is a good example of 21st century genetic engineering. The creation of "Eve" Genesis 2:21-23 just it two short verses raises many questions, but we are simply expected to take it a face value and not question it . One being, why did "god" go through all the bother of the operation of having to anesthetise the Adam, open him up, remove a "rib" and stitch him back up when he could has simply created Eve, "the mother of all living" from the same dust as the bible says he created the Adam from?
The story of the Eden Garden is obviously a copy from the Mesopotamian civilization which is in more detail, but this story is also present in many cultures which lead us to think that there were several “Gardens”.
Its not the only one either. The Bible authors lifted many thousands of years old stories from the Mesopotamian epics, including the story of the biblical Moses. Which indicates that on the face of it seems to show us that the Hebrews as a nation didn't have a written history of their own before the time of the Exodus. It was only after the biblical Moses -it is said - that "their history" was committed to writing. But again, this raises more questions than it will ever answer, one being where did Moses get his history from considering he is believed to have been raised as an Egyptian and became a General in the Egyptian army in adulthood? i.e. baby one minute and a fully grown man the next.
aliens
Well it has to be proven that "the gods" Elohim, came from somewhere other than earth. But it is as good a theory as any that the "gods", that is to say the Anunnaki deities came from some place other than earth. Read Alfords, When The Gods Came Down. You might like it.
Ancient Egypt is without any doubt the main source of evidence for the ancient astronauts.
Well that is not quite correct. For the simple reason that civilisation began in Mesopotamia. For which which there is an abundance of evidence. The Mesopotamians are credited with many firsts. Including all the things we take for granted today i.e. 1st education system, farming and agriculture, writing, mathematics, astrology, time, medicine, a judicial system of law and punishment, libraries, pottery making, sailing and many more.
contactees
Yes, that is a blinder for me. But the only one single story concerning "contactees" that caught my attention was the one that was supposed to have occurred in Alaska, I believe. The reason was tis that this particular "contatcee" was said to be speaking ancient Sumerian.
My granddaughter has just informed me that a film/ movie was made about it. So i might look that up when I have nothing better to do.
"angelical" messages in dreams.
Well, when we consider the biblical account of the time since god/s decided he didn't want to remain with man any longer, all contact with "god/s" came through is said to have come via dreams.
IMO far too much is made of these dreamlike encounters unless some remained behind. Which, if I remember correctly, the Sumerian epics claim to be the case.. Truth is, who knows?
But if you keep in mind that the hierarchy of the priesthood especially, they would rename themselves after "gods & angels" when they reached a certain point in the priesthood training. And this practice is still the case to this day in the Roman Church in particular. An, as you may already know, the word "angel" means nothing more than - messenger.
It is also worth keeping in mind too that anyone that is more educated than the illiterate & superstitious around them can claim anything, including to have received messages came from "god". Pastors and Priests do so all the time....for a living.
I’ve been hearing a lot of people talking about their communication with the extraterrestrial beings and they coincide with the fact that these aliens want us, above all else, to develop our minds as a vehicle to take to the next level in our evolutionary journey, by means of love, compassion, and care for the others so that we can join the interstellar community.
Well they could be wrong. And it would depend on who you mean by "us". Do you mean you, me or any working class Joe.? "The god/s" made it clear that they nor there messengers were to have nothing to do with humans and certainly didn't want us to be educated if the bible is to be believed. We were, as the bible makes clear, created to do there bidding because; " there was no one to till the Earth". and that we were to have only a limited amount of knowledge to perform ours or theirs simply everyday tasks.
I couldn’t help noticing that part of this message looks similar to that of Jesus, also known as the Christ. What does it mean?
Well I believe that you are "noticing" something that isn't there. Jesus was a revolutionary that believed or was led to believe that he was the rightful king and heir to the throne of Jerusalem and had come to unite the tribes of Is -Ra - El and free his people (Jews only) from the Roman yoke and turn them back to their original god and roots. You after remember that "his people" had been under the rule of Greeks for 500 years and the Romans for about 200 years before Jesus was even - as they say- a glint in the milkman's eye.
we should get used to the fact that these aliens will show up sooner or later because most people are more conscious about it and nobody would dare to deem someone as insane when telling such stories.
Well Christians apart, more people are more educated and less haughty, ignorant and arrogant to understand that there might well be other places in our own universe that are inhabited by the "gods" and the idea shouldn't just be dismissed out of hand.
After all, the ancients were pointing skyward to other places that they believed their "gods" came from and well before modern man was even allowed to consider the idea.
I'll finish with this:
spacecraft.
Well it cannot be totally ignored that the biblical authors often made claims of the "ascending and descending" of what the bible calls "the gods" on clouds of smoke and fire and references to craft of one sort or another. They could well as been making reference to a modern-day space launch.
Ezekiel is one example. He described this particular craft as a "chariot" and why wouldn't he?
He was simply describing what he had seen with the limited available information and relating it to the nearest thing that resembled it in his life time..
A good example of this in the modern world would be the American Plaines Indians when they first observed a steam train. Simply calling it an ' Iron Horse'. Same with a rifle, calling it, the ' stick that makes thunder '.
We do what we can with the limited knowledge we possess. Only some bastards take the piss and serious literary licence. The Pastor and the Priest are fkn famous for doing it, and have been for millennia. The gotta make a living I suppose, just not on my back, fkn leeches.
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@hey-yo
Instead we understand God created a biological human to coexist with the Son.Nice. Now lets see your BIBLICAL evidence that supports your statement.I dont have to. The comments made in this thread have been about God having sex and then Jesus is born. [..........]Then we inherently accept that the human biology needs to coexist with Jesus' divine essence. We inherently accept that the biology does coexist with divinity within the comments given as well.
So as per usual, you are just another believer asserting your opinions and presenting them as biblical fact and that is not prepared to support your claims.
You might do well to remember to afford the non believer the same curtesy when they appear to do likewise.
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@Best.Korea
The advanced species have a habbit of enslaving and using lower species for their benefit.
Yes. We will always have the prey and the predator.
The Christian church is famous for preying on the uneducated and weak minded as all religions do.
They don't get away with it so much these days of the 21st century, certainly not in the educated West. But imagine being told by the priests of ancient times that the earthquake was the result of you being naughty and displeasing god and that we could only calm his temper by giving over more of your worldly goods and hard earned take home pay to the temple.
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@hey-yo
Instead we understand God created a biological human to coexist with the Son.
Nice. Now lets see your BIBLICAL evidence that supports your statement.
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@hey-yo
His mother Mary was pledged to be married to Joseph, but before they came together, she was found to be pregnant through the Holy SpiritThis does not imply sex.Sex is never mentioned nor implied.Instead we understand God created a biological human to coexist with the Son.
Nice. Now lets see your BIBLICAL evidence that supports your statement.
And Mary said she had "known" no man, which would imply she had never had sex with any man as was totally perplexed by the idea. Luke 1:34.
Was she too raped by a son of god as in days of old?
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
I am going to pray to Jesus tonight in Him contacting Miss Tradesecret through prayer ...
Too late Brother D. The Reverend - according to only him - S/he was "chosen by god". S/he also claims to have prayed to god to "give him wisdom ".
My personal belief is that " god " must have been taking the piss. .
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
MISS TRADESECRET QUOTE OF OPENING UP A CAN OF WORMS AGAIN!: "In summary, humanity was not made flawed but rather was made "very good" without any flaws. Yet he was made morally and legally responsible for his actions."
Indeed Brother D. I picked up on this absolute contradiction by the Reverends as early as post #4
When I wrote:
Take a long look at this absolute contradictory bullshite:
Tradesecret wrote: humanity was not made flawed but rather was made "very good" without any flaws
Tradesecret wrote: I have suggested that the Bible expresses that God made humanity "very good". Indeed without flaw.
The clown[Tradescret] has just defined the word - perfect: while using the idiom "very good".
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
2. THEN MISS TRADESECRET TOTALLY CONTRADICTS HERSELF TO HER POST ABOVE IN THIS PREVIOUS QUOTE TOWARDS CHRISTMAS!!: "We can do without Christmas, but Good Friday is the day God demonstrated his love in the most amazing way."HUH? Miss Tradesecret says we can do without Christmas in her quote #2, but she celebrates and praises Jesus' birth at Christmas in her initial post #1 of this thread!!! Can she spell; C-O-N-T-R-A-D-I-C-T-I-O-N?! Jesus H. Christ, when will her outright pseudo-christian embarrassment ever stop?!
No, Brother D. S/he cannot spell contradiction , and his /her self inflicted embarrassment will never cease .
Aren't we lucky? 😂
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
#5 . JESUS SAID: "But He answered and said, “I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.” (Matthew 15:24)2. JESUS AS GOD SAID: "You only have I chosen of all the families of the earth [Hebrews]; therefore I will punish you for all your sins.” (Amos 3:2)3. JESUS IS KING OF THE JEWS ONLY: "A sign was fastened above Jesus' head, announcing the charge against him. It read: “This is Jesus, the King of the Jews." (Matthew 27:37)4. JESUS AS THE ONE GOD SAID HIS CHOSEN PEOPLE ARE THE JEWS ONLY: "For you are a people holy to the Lord your God. The Lord your God has chosen you (Hebrews) out of all the peoples on the face of the earth to be his people, his treasured possession." (Deuteronomy 7:6)
Brother D. It matters not how often you point out or highlight these Biblical facts, the Christian in their desperate will to be right and in the belief that only they have the correct interpretation of the gospels will deny, ignore, refute and attempt rewrite what is actually written in the very holy scripture that the they say are the "flawless words of god "the bible. Even after the authors of the BIBLE itself warn in both Old and New Testament:
Deuteronomy 4: 2 Do not add to what I command you and do not subtract from it, but keep the commands of the Lord your God that I give you.
Revelation 22:18-19
1 I warn everyone who hears the words of the prophecy of this scroll: If anyone adds anything to them, God will add to that person the plagues described in this scroll. And if anyone takes words away from this scroll of prophecy, God will take away from that person any share in the tree of life and in the Holy City, which are described in this scroll.
Only the haughty, self appointed holier than thou Christians such as the bible dunce the Reverend Tradeseceret will attempt to deny the BIBLICAL facts.
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@zedvictor4
@hey-yo
I think that the main evidence is attributed to a bloke called Luke.Interestingly, other scholars also suggest that he was born several years prior to the popular date.
Well depending on which gospel one chooses to believe of either Matthew or Luke there is at least a ten year contradiction between the two, Vic.
My theory is that Matthew, in his desperation to tie Jesus back to the OT had him down as a member of the house/age of the Ram while Luke attempts to tie him to the new incoming age/house of the Fish, isn't the sign of Christians a fish?
I have explained many times here the bible is riddled with astronomy/astrology and that the ancient hierarchy, that is the Priesthood and Monarchy, were obsessed with astronomy/astrology, as historian Josephus attest to many times. It was a cross over time from one house to another and they were always looking for "the signs" of the cross over. So when the BIBLE tells about the kings/wise men/magi from the East:
"“Where is He that is born King of the Jews? For we have seen His star in the East and have come to worship Him.”
I am pretty sure they understood what this meant....... and so did Herod.
The thing about these cross overs from one house to another is that the rulers of the old outgoing reigning house are very reluctant to hand over power to the new incoming house.. without a fight.
I just love this subject, Vic.😁
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So T.s. is saying, " the Bible makes it quite clear..."
Read his quotes that I posted above at Post #21 . They are plain enough to read. And if you want the full "context" click on the links and read them in full for yourself and make your own mind up. But when someone tells you that "the bible makes itself crystal clear" what else can they mean other than they believe the bible
makes itself crystal clear?
HERE IS HIS FKN QUOTE>>> " Well, I for one, do not believe that the bible is ambiguous at all. It is clear. Crystal clear in fact. #55
Do you agree that the bible makes itself "crystal clear" and is without ambiguity?
here is his latest biblical contradiction.
[A]
Tradesecret wrote:,The Bible is not a fictional book. Parts of it might be. #43
But he also states:
[B]
Tradesecret wrote:, Every word of God remains flawless#49
Tell me. If according to Tradesecret there are some parts of the bible "might be fictional", how can it be also fkn "flawless"!?
And also tell me, what is Tradesecret indicating with his statement at [A] ?
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@Sidewalker
So, last year I was out celebrating and realized I had been drinking too much, so I did something I have never done before, I took a city bus home, and consequently, I arrived home safe and sound.
Merry Chrsimas Everyone!
Three murders. Five stabbings. Countless other attacks.
Over the past two weeks, more than a dozen people have been violently attacked on the New York City transit system, including three fatally, in a string of bloody, frightening incidents.
Over the past two weeks, more than a dozen people have been violently attacked on the New York City transit system, including three fatally, in a string of bloody, frightening incidents.
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
Stephen,YOUR QUOTE ABOUT JESUS RELATIVE TO MARY: "I wonder if she would have been so songful if God had told the truth about fate of her son?"The irony of your quote above, is the biblical axiom that Jesus being God within her womb (John 20:27-28), would be telling Himself that HIs fate was to die upon a cross in a painful manner (Mark 15:37-39), BUT, Jesus being God already knew this fact because He is omniscient (1 John 3:20)! But, He had to die painfully on a cross to save the HEBREW people only (Matthew 15:24) from their sins, since the 2nd class woman Eve created the first sin in the first place to be saved upon in the Garden of Eden (1 Timothy 2:14)!
Very good points brother D. and all so obvious except to those that refuse to see that:
"the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit" said Rabbi David Kimhi - " therefore, with reference to this god whom you call Father, Son and Holy Spirit, - that part which you call the Father must be prior to that which you call Son, for if they were always coexistent would have to be called twin brothers.
More over, if the Son is the Father what of Mary getting pregnant? Is this not an incestuous congregation? The Father has sex with the mother to conceive the Son who is also the Father.....so technically the Son, who is also the father, had sex with his mother"...
It's all very - Oedipus, isn't it ?
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@FLRW
It was more the case that this date was chosen because it was the winter solstice (shortest day of the year). When the sun appears to "stand still" on the horizon and the day has two equal parts and then begins to rise again causing the days to be longer.
In truth even Christians don't know on which day or year Jesus was believed to be born even the gospel writers cannot make up their mind. And neither can they agree on the day of the resurrection: which has to be the most important day in all of Christendom.
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
MISS TRADESECRETS QUOTE STATING THAT PARTS OF THE BIBLE ARE “FICTIONAL!!!: “The Bible is not a fictional book. Parts of it might be. But it is one book made up of 66 books written over a long period of time. To dismiss it in relation to any other thing except to disparage the character of GOD is not even sensible.”
"parts of it might be" ?? This is simply another perfect example of the Reverends hypocrisy and blatant contradictions .
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
The Reverend wrote: Christmas is just around the corner again. Sadly, though, most will never leap with joy like John the Baptist.
A very odd short tale from Luke 1:39-41. It as though its just been shoehorned into the narrative . The event is afforded just three verses and only in Luke's gospel.
There is no explanation as to what caused John the 6 month old foetus to leap. Or why Mary even bothered traipsing all the way to the desert where Elizabeth was in hiding?
But then Mary for reasons known only to her bursts into song.
I wonder if she would have been so songful if God had told the truth about fate of her son?
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@IlDiavolo
I imagine that they are preparing a thesis, as we speak.This is also a problem, a long thread is not appealing in my opinion.
That is a shame. It would have been nice for you to show just how many Old Testament stories actually originated in the Mesopotamian region and that were written down thousands of years before the bible was even thought of.
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
Well I can only say as a matter of fact that Lemming lied when he accused me of threatening him with the malicious intent of getting me banned #40. But failed to produce a single piece of evidence when I asked him to#41, Brother D.
As it is also fact that he has over the last two weeks been inciting at least 3 other members to pile on you.
I am at a loss as to why.
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
Well I can only say as a matter of fact that Lemming lied when he accused me of threatening him with the malicious intent of getting me banned. But failed to produce a single piece of evidence when I asked him to, Brother D.
As it is also fact that he has over the last two weeks been inciting at least 3 other members to pile on you.
I am at a loss as to why.
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@zedvictor4
I imagine that they are preparing a thesis, as we speak.
Would be nice to think so.
What's the weather doing in Wales , Vic?
Its freezing, cloudy & damp , here my mate.
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@IlDiavolo
@zedvictor4
According to which ancients?
The Mesopotamian Babylonians.
But I would rather wait for IlDiavolo's thread and his opinions and theories on the subject, as I explained to him above:
This subject needs a thread of its own imo. You cannot do the subject any justice by posting information scattered over many threads in drips. #35
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@zedvictor4
The problem I have with special ancient people, is where are they?
They left "like migrating birds", after a major catastrophe. According to the ancients. Vic.
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@IlDiavolo
You should start your thread on the subject. It will more interesting and entertaining than the shite the Pastors and Priests are still pumping out and force feeding our children, to this day.I sure will. There is a lot of controversy, though, so I don't know if people here will like it.
It matters not what other "other people think". This is a religion forum and not a religious forum; as much as many here seem to believe it is and want to use it as a pulpit and go challenged.
These boards are open to anyone with an alternative opinion, idea or theory concerning creation/ the scriptures. You obviously have to be prepared for push back and understand your subject yourself.
You are on a reasonably good footing as it stands because all Christians have is faith, which they believe trumps every piece of science man has come to know. Arrogant haughty pricks does cover it.
You said these ancient "lords" were superior.
Yes, as far as I understand the few of the many authors I mention above. For which they do submit some very believable & convincing evidence.
I wouldn't go with the "apes" theory. And have never heard of it to be honest apart from Darwin. Indeed Darwin was a Christian but himself admitted there was a "missing link" that he couldn't explain.
It was more likely Neanderthal / Cro-Magnon.
I have said many times on this forum that if we were to super impose many of todays sciences over some of the events in the bible that we may well come to a clearer understand of what those ancients were trying to convey. The creation of Eve is a good example of 21st century genetic engineering.
Read the episode yourself but now with your 21st century mind :
Genesis 2:21-23So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, [anesthetised] and he slept; then He took one of his ribs [dna/life essence] and closed up the flesh [stitched him up] at that place. The Lord God fashioned into a woman the rib which He had taken from the man, and brought her to the man.
They indeed are, and it's not just in technology but also in mental abilities.
Well it has to be admitted that it is still theory as convincing and believable as it is, as in all the pieces appear to fit - and certainly makes more sense than that of Christians that believe three day old dead rotten stinking corpses came back to life - for which there is absolutely no evidence at all.
I dont know if the people here are ready for that kind of discussion, they are so fucking scheptical. Lol.
Don't make the mistake of underestimating the members on these boards/people you have never met. That is a grave mistake that many haughty Christians always make only to fall flat on their face, or put on their arses with facts..... and start crying every time you embarrass them by exposing the empty skull bones they have.
There are also some very clever people on this forum that actually do have open minds that can think for themselves.
You start your thread, IlDiavolo and don't concern yourself with what others may think or throw at you. Just be advised to take not of what I have boldened and underlined above.
This subject needs a thread of its own imo. You cannot do the subject any justice by posting information scattered over many threads in drips.
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@IlDiavolo
If you read the bible with the correct translation and no useless interpretation at all, you wouldn't make such stupid claims.
I have always maintained that the word god is a relatively new word in the scheme of things. I haven't watched the video yet but I did read all the opening synopsis.
I notice in your link Mauro Biglino (who I hadn't heard of until now) speaks of the Mesopotamian as an " ancient alien civilization called Elohim?" When we read anything pertaining to the Mesopotamia epics they only ever use the word - lord - for the Annunnaki hierarchy: Lord Enki, Lord Enlil etc. Annunnaki are referred to in the OT. They were no doubt superior beings as far as I and many authors understand..
Ancient alien civilization theory is not new by any means. I remember my first reading of Chariots of the Gods Erich Von Daniken in the 70's . I have read all his work since. Then there is The Genius of The Few-The Story of Those Who Founded the Garden in Eden & The shining Ones by Christian And Barbara Joy OBrien both excellent and well research books. And of course Zecharia Sitchin and his massive work on the Earth Chronicles which I have found to be absolute fascinating reading . Yet it has to be recognised that all these authors make clear refences to the OT as pointers that certainly do appear to support their theories. For instance one question posed in the synopsis is:
Where Adam and Eve really created by the Elohim or just put in the Garden of Eden from outside the world?
I believe the bible answers this question . When the bible is read closely it states quite clearly: god/Annunnaki created them and only then did they place them in the garden. Clearly indicating that they were created somewhere else before being placed in the garden.
I do like this theory . At least it does paint a more believable account of creation of humans that the one Christianity has been ramming down our throats since childhood. But in all fairness to the early Christians they didn't have the research, archaeology, or technology that is available to us today ie the Sumerian cuneiform tablets of which there are hundreds of thousands, the Rosetta Stone translation, the dead sea scrolls and many more ancient writing from around the world.
Lets no ever forget, when one civilisation met another and they asked one another where they got "the idea", they all without exception point skyward.
You should start your thread on the subject. It will more interesting and entertaining than the shite the Pastors and Priests are still pumping out and force feeding our children, to this day.
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
where instead of Miss Tradesecret making a complete Bible Fool of herself within this forum, she is to to do the following: “Go into all the world and proclaim the gospel to the whole creation." (Mark 16:15)
Yes, well. I have the bible dunce Tradesecret on record telling me that the Great Commission Matthew 28:16-20 was not intended for him. And that it was "not his job".
I know, you could make it up.
Jesus commanded them: "Therefore go and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you. And surely I am with you always, to the very end of the age.”
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@hey-yo
Its a MIRACLE! . The Reverend Tradesecret actually finally agrees with I have been saying about the scriptures since the day I joined this forum and after years of him denying this fact and repeatedly telling me that the bible is;"Crystal clear. Unambiguous".Are you saying that the bible is not crystal clear?
I have elaborated.
Simply read what I have written. I couldn't have made or can I make myself and my position more clear where I stand and I have stood from the day I joined this forum when it comes to the scriptures. The gospels are full of ambiguous half stories and that I believe there is another story beneath the surface.
Just read any thread I have started concerning the bible where I have not only explained my position I have also explained why I have taken such a position. And have always explained why I have certain opinions or ideas or theories. I have also suggested many times that the Gospel authors seem desperate to hide rather that reveal the gospel truth. Read my threads. its all there, and no one has said anything that has forced me to change my views, or opinions especially that contradictory bible dunce the Reverend Tradesecret.
And now after denying this for years, your pin-up boy is saying that there is "depth" to the bible. And I agree. He has many times also denied that there is any "mystery" or nothing "mysterious" about scriptures too, when the bible clearly speaks of mysteries that are only privy to the few.
And I am doubly amazed that the clown, within only a matter of days, has finally agreed with me twice now, in that he finally agrees with me that there are indeed other gods after denying this clear BIBLICAL fact from the day he joined here.
Listen. I have had to educate that bible dunce many many times when it came to scripture . Yet he claims to be the one that is highly educated in the theological field and the bible in particular, that according to only him was taught and trained by the best in the world, so much so that he is a qualified pastor and a minister to his countries armed forces. He also educates university students too on theology and the bible in particular., if he is to be believed?
Would you like a list of his flights of fancy?
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@hey-yo
@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
Tradesecret wrote @ hey-yo "some of the Atheists on this site don't even understand that there is a context, let alone a context with depth".
Its a MIRACLE! . The Reverend Tradesecret actually finally agrees with what I have been saying about the scriptures since the day I joined this forum and after years of him denying this fact and repeatedly telling me that the bible is;
"Crystal clear. Unambiguous".
Tradesecret "Well,I for one, do not believe that the bible is ambiguous at all. It is clear. Crystal clear in fact". #55
"And that the bible authors knew exactly what it was they wish to convey to its reader".
Theauthors in the bible are pretty clear about what they want tocommunicate. #62
The Reverend had- up until this point- denied that there isn't any great " mystery to the scriptures" too, but then goes on to tell others to look for and think "mystery".🤣
What an utter contradictory clown the Reverend Tradesecret continues to be.
He just cannot help himself. It simply shows that for the want of attention and conversation this bible dunce is willing contradict himself, willing to tell lies and willing deny what is actually written in scripture if it garners him the slightest bit of attention.
As I have said many times Tradesecret's self centred personality is only overshadowed by his self-delusion which borders pathological. When faced with facts that don't suit him he will ignore them and make up alternative ones. Individuals such as Tradesecret with narcissistic personality disorders do not respond well when their illusions of personal superiority are challenged.
Having had his over inflated sense of personal worth and power challenged the believability of the fantasy or the lie seems to be of no consequence.
All that seems to count is whether his tall tales about himself helps him rebuild the facade of his greatness while just struggling to be relevant.
Pathological liars such as Tradesecret with narcissistic personality disorders often do not care who they manipulate and lie to or how much harm it may cause by lying. Of prime importance to NPD suffers is their self aggrandizement and the propping up of their fragile egos, not the well being of their fellow men and women. .
At least the clown understands that there certainly is great depth to the scriptures as I have said all along. I have over the years repeatedly suggested to Tradesecret that there is another story below the surface while he insistently claimed the opposite.
Its a shame Tradesecret couldn't have admitted this from day one. We may even have been able to have some serious discussions about my favourite subject- The scriptures.
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
Stephen,OMG!!!! Since Lemming has decided he is to police this Religion Forum because he has nothing better to do....
Indeed Brother. Our resident police authority that has also taken it up on himself to be prosecutor, judge and jury without the full facts that have been freely offered and freely available to him only for him to ignore is quite astounding. I was accused of threatening him without a single piece of evidence. I was also accused by him of abusing and harassing the Reverend but he appears to have turned a blind eye to the barrage of totally uncalled for abuse I received from the Reverend in the first instance when I was a relatively new member here that simply wanted to discuss scripture in a fair, diplomatic and open minded manner. But the Reverend showed me that wasn't the way it actually worked here.
Here is just a sample of the abuse I received from our Reverend that claims to have been "chosen by god" himself:
Our kindly resident Chaplain and Pastor the Reverend Tradesecret wrote:
Stephen, you are a; Stupid man. Dumb as fuck. Just continue to repeat your ignorance. #161
Stephen, you are the swine and the dogs that trample over the pearls. #36
Stephen; Obviously you are an idiot. #186
Stephen; the serpent, satan, whatever - he is the accuser and you follow after him. you are his disciple. From my point of view - he is slime. You know like the stuff we find after a snail has passed by. creepy. disgusting. Ugly. \ #24
Stephen; Are you really this thick? #186
And lets no forget that he freely tell us that in his capacity as "criminal lawyer" that most atheist in his experience are "drug addled kiddie fiddlers".
There is more of the barrage of unwarranted insults but I am sure the 6 above will suffice.... for now.
Indeed they were all uncalled for insults directed to me personally and I had never once before that time berated or insulted the Reverend Tradesecret.
Oh, and just let me add this, Brother D. I never complained once.
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Well, this is disappointing.
I was convicted the Christian theist here could come up with a reasonable explanation for this biblical conundrum.
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
If you click on poor Seth Browns moniker, you will see that he "sheepishly sneaks into this Religion Forum"
Indeed Brother he may well do. but his last post was the 11days ago.>>>> https://www.debateart.com/members/SethBrown/forum-posts
Which was the same day that I had to show him once again something from the bible that he didn't even know about..... but should have. The "seed of David"
Maybe he's forgotten his password, Tradesecret with all his many personas had the same trouble. 😂
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
If you click on poor Seth Browns moniker, you will see that he "sheepishly sneaks into this Religion Forum"
Indeed Brother he may well do. but his last post was the 11th.>>>> https://www.debateart.com/members/SethBrown/forum-posts
Which was the same day that I had to show him once again something from the bible that he didn't even know about..... but should have. The "seed of David"
Maybe he's forgotten his password, Tradesecret with all his many personas had the same trouble. 😂
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
I am truly sorry, but Seth Brown had to RUN AWAY from his own thread because he was made the outright Bible Stupid Fool by me and others
The person now calling himself "SethBrown"/tradesecret hasn't been seen since I had to show him once again something from the bible that he didn't even know about..... but should have.
The "seed of David"
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@Best.Korea
Palestine just defends its territory from Israel occupation.
Gaza has not been "occupied" by Israel since 2005.
In a "peace agreement" Israel started withdrawing all its citizens to Israel in 1997 - some by force - with compensation resettlement payments to their own people costing well over 7 billion.
The Palestinians didn't take advantage of the ready made opportunity that had been gifted to them on a plate. No, instead of building on what was left to them, the Terrorists decided to eradicate and dismantle every trace of the Jews and Jewry. Every single Israeli house, business, factory, production plant and farm was totally destroyed and levelled to it last brick by the Palestinians within two weeks of the complete withdraw setting the Palestinian people back to the dark ages. Good move eh?
Since that time Israel has been under constant rocket attack. That is the Palestinian definition of a peace agreement.
The Palestinians have never had the lightest intention or interest of living alongside the Israelis in peace. Just as recent as a day ago, they confirmed this to be the case themselves.
Who's land it is , is another argument altogether, BK.
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@zedvictor4
Plenty of room in Saudi Arabia for a couple of million Palestinians.But I'm not sure that the Saudis are keen on the idea.
The same with the Egyptians and Jordanians, I wonder why.
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@hey-yo
Why don't you simply show me how I have misquoted the idiot?I just did chico. .
You haven't shown me anywhere in those posts above where I have misquoted the Reverend Tradesecret, for the simple reason I haven't misquoted him at all.
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@Best.Korea
@YouFound_Lxam
Moses telling Pharoh, (a hard-hearted totalitarian tyrant) to let his people go, and Pharoh refusing, so God punishes him.
And who was it that caused Pharaoh to have a hardened heart ?
lets have a look.
Exodus 7:1-3
Then the Lord said to Moses, “See, I have made you like God to Pharaoh, and your brother Aaron will be your prophet. 2 You are to say everything I command you, and your brother Aaron is to tell Pharaoh to let the Israelites go out of his country. 3 But I will harden Pharaoh’s heart, and though I multiply my signs and wonders in Egypt,
And it is debateable who asked pharaoh to "let my people go". Was it Moses or Arron? It seems that it was Arron and not Moses that held some considerable power considering he was given the magical staff of royalty and or the highest status among the Levites and not Moses.
" But Aaron’s staff swallowed up their staffs."
Moses entered the tent and saw that Aaron’s staff,
And who knows what Pharaoh might have done had GOD! not interfered with any decision that pharaoh may have made had he not hardened the heart of Pharaoh?
@YouFound_Lxam
You really need to learn your bible before quoting it.
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@hey-yo
Those links speak for themselvesThere are absolutely no misquotes in my post above.....I put misrepresentation along with misquoting.
Bullshit "CHICO".
Those quotes are clear and categorical statements freely offered without prompting or provocation.. Your pinup boy the Reverend Tradesecret simple cannot escape from them .
Unless you agree and saying that your pinup boy is in fact lying about his qualifications and his status in life.?
Lying about;
His standing within the Christian church as a pastor and chaplain to his countries armed forces ? Which -let me remind you - he has changed his nationality three fkn times since he's been a member here!
OR His standing as a criminal lawyer in the field of the Judiciary?
OR His incredible capability of being able to memorise the bible backward and forward since he was a child?
OR His ability to translate ancient languages into English?
OR His defence of foreign nationals in international courts abroad.?
OR The fees he charges Universities for tutoring and teaching theology, the bible in particular, to their students?
And many many more piles of shite he likes to brag about himself.
We can copy/paste the text in any document app or online tool to search for words.
Well if you call directly quoting a member copy & pasting the original statements and or arguments were posted on from the same fkn website forum then I'd like you to show me another way of quoting another member on this forum, because they come from the same forum, you absolute clown.
Look, Traedesecret is a compulsive pathological liar. He has some serious mental issues imo.
I have proven over and over that he doesn't know scripture even at any credible level not even Sunday school level. And I would let him near a school of fish never mind a school full of students that he claims to tutor and teach.
So when you say, " T.s. believes "x" and provide a quote that does not demonstrate that T.s. believes "x," then you misquoted.
Ok. at post #23 and here #11 above I have given you enough sample quotes from the myriad of quotes from the contradictory lying clown, above. Why don't you simply show me how I have misquoted the idiot?
And don't come back until you can" CHICO".
Off you go now.
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
I say Miss Tradesecret will use the lame little girl excuse of: "Do you want me to do your homework,"whereas she couldn't do it herself to support said propositions in the first place!
S/he never can support a single proposition, Brother D. Is all the clown ever does is make a thread of uninformed opinions of the same subject ("free will" in its various guises) and then complains when those uniformed opinions are challenged and begs others to take offence on his/her behalf.
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
Stephen,Grab the popcorn and beer to wait for another lame excuse from our #1 Bible Stupid Fool Miss Tradesecret in not addressing Zed's post #22 https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/10123/posts/416849 where he told her logically to do the following:So prove it.Prove the authority.Prove the creation.Prove the sin.When that job is conclusively done we can then move on to the possibility of a design flaw.[1] Do you think that Miss Tradesecret will remain SILENT to this request from Zed and [2] run away from it, or [3] will she once again come up with her normal excuse of; "You want me to do your homework" because she can't answer Zed's request in the first place? LOL!
I think all three of your options Brother D.
(Ephesians 1:11) should have settled this argument that the Reverend Tradsecret keeps rehashing but he simply ignores the BIBLICAL facts. He poses the same argument in various forms in the belief that everyone else on this forum is thick and stupid and won't notice.
I'll pass on the popcorn and grab a beer.😁
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@Best.Korea
Tradesecret wrote: The temptation to sin came not from within the human will, but from outside. Indeed it came from the serpent. The devil.Best.Korea wrote: Who created the devil and/or allowed him to seduce humans?
Exactly. But you do understand that the Reverend Tradesecret has simply created yet another "free will" thread attempting to exonerate god of all responsibility of man's fall, don't you?
I did a thread myself on this subject where I have claimed we were created by god with a sinful nature to begin with:
Wasn't the first sin ever committed by "the devil himself" didn't he have a sinful nature to make him sin, to begin with? Then there are the hundreds angels that " fell from heaven". So did not they too have a sinful nature to begin with to make them sin? It is only then that Eve is said to have sinned. Did she not have a sinful nature to make her sin to begin with?.
I pointed above that the Reverend Traedesecret one one hand has claimed that we were "created flawless" thereby created perfect, but then what did the contradictory cretin say?
Well, he said this:
Tradesecret wrote: I have suggested that the Bible expresses that God made humanity "very good". Indeed without flaw.
It is the firm belief of Christians and the Christian Church that the son's of god "fell" i.e. sinned first; the bible is riddled with verses telling us this, 2 Peter being just one. But the Pastors, Chaplains like the Reverend Tradesecret can never face up to - going by their own beliefs - that the son's of god too must have had been created with the same sinful nature.
They -the Pastors, Chaplains and Priests - will ignore the clear biblical fact that it was only after the son's of god sinned, that Eve is said to have sinned and not before, while also ignoring the what we have and are, all comes from god according to their very own ideology!
If every man "born of women" did "inherit sin" from Eve "the mother of all living" then it came from only one place; god.
You are arguing with a complete and utter bible dunce in denial when it comes to the Reverend Tradesecret, BK. I admire your tenacity and your patience.
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@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
MISS TRADESECRETS QUOTE BELOW:As for Satan, he already was defeated at the Cross. He was so blind to his own pride, that he missed this point. The cross was the victory and it blindsided Satan and it destroyed his power.YOUR QUOTE TO THE BIBLE FOOL MISS TRADESECRET: "Could you tell me where does it say this in the Bible? I cant seem to find it."
Well that I consider to be a legitimate question given the profound claim made by the Reverend Tradesecret and one s/he should feel compelled to address with a straight answer given the status of religious office s/he claims to hold, it was simply a case of directing his questioner- Best.Korea -to the verse that supports the claim, Bother D.
But lets see what happened.
MISS TRADESECRET'S RUNAWAY POSTS TO YOU WHERE SHE DOES'NT KNOW WHERE HER DIRECT STATEMENT REGARDING SATAN WAS DEFEATED UPON THE CROSS IS LOCATED WITHIN THE BIBLE:
Your first link first. Tradesecret wrote @ Best.Korea :
Tradesecret wrote: Do I need to do your homework for you? But let me simply state, have a read of Ephesians. That's the book just after Galatians. And think "mystery". Your pal will like that since it has to do with secrets. However, this is the real mystery that was hidden. And that really gets up the nose of Satan. He missed it. He got sucked in. And he was defeated since he ended up doing exactly the opposite of what he thought he was doing.
So instead of simply pointing out the verse that supports his claim, the Reverend Tradesecret has chosen instead to totally ignore and rebuke Best.Korea and offer instead some mumbo jumbo prefixed with "do your home work".
Seriously, did anyone here honestly expect that bible dunce to support his claim?
Your second link.
It was asked by Best Korea ;"Okay, I read Ephesians. I didnt find anything about Satan's power being destroyed. It just says Satan has great power. Could you give me the verse you are talking about?
The response to this very simple polite request from Tradesecret is just as ignorant not to mention downright arrogant.
Well if you figure it out, there is no point in me attempting to direct you. As it were, I did say - "think Mystery". That was my starting point. I'm sure a smart person like you can follow the logic.
As I mentioned above #40, Brother D. It is very clear that for all of the bragging that Reverend Tradesecret does concerning his highly qualified academic and scholarly qualifications in the theological field and bible study in particular, the s/he is simply a pathological liar that had no intention of addressing any questions put to him by Best Korea that have arisen from his own extremely poor uniformed opinions.
which are opinions that s/he refuses to be questioned about. I have to wonder sometimes, why that bible dunce is even here. Still , s/he does offer some light entertainment after a tiring day.
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@Best.Korea
Tradesecret Wrote : @ Best.Korea "think Mystery" and "follow the logic".
Instead of simply providing the verse in Ephesians #36 where he claims it is written that " Satan, he already was defeated at the Cross."#31 The Reverend has chosen to play silly childish and immature word games where he is trying to convince you, Best.Korea that he is privileged to some higher wisdom than you are yourself. He has even claimed as such in the past. I will find his statement to his effect for you when I have more time.
But didn't you notice how quick the cretin folded once you challenged his statements?
Anyway, for now I can assure you that this is yet another example of the Reverend Tradesecret making it up as he goes along. Reverend Tradesecret has no intention of showing you anything to back up his claims simply for the reason that he cannot do so because he is completely devoid of any biblical knowledge even at Sunday school level. Although he preaches every "Sunday to a congregation of over 300" according to only himself.
Ask yourself this, Best.Korea , why wouldn't the Reverend Tradesecret be more than happy to share and explain the word of god to you? Or willing or eager to show and prove to you his claims if he could simply do so?
I understand that you are more than willing than I am to give this cretin the benefit of the doubt and that you do sincerely wish to learn from him given his alleged theological academic training by the best people in the theological field off scripture, and who wouldn't? But you will not learn a single thing about the bible from this bible dunce and I would put my house and life on it.
Just remember you are talking to a clown that has said there is no mystery or ambiguity in the bible and that it is all "very crystal clear, in fact."
Good luck BK. I sincerely admire your patience.
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@Best.Korea
Those are some of the most disgusting mental gymnastics I have ever seen.
I wouldn't call them "disgusting" BK, be without doubt, in his attempt to convince us of imagined scholarly intelligence and word-smithery. he has attempted to perform linguistical gymnastics and failed miserably. But when doesn't he?
Take a long look at this absolute contradictory bullshite:
Tradesecret wrote: humanity was not made flawed but rather was made "very good" without any flaws
Tradesecret wrote: I have suggested that the Bible expresses that God made humanity "very good". Indeed without flaw.
The clown has just defined the word - perfect: while using the idiom "very good".
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@hey-yo
Lol.As usual Stephen, you misquote everything you provide.
Nope. Those links speak for themselves. They are all written by your pin-up boy the Reverend Tradesecret
First, I said the bible is more complex than greek mythology.
I agree, But as shown above, Reverend Tradesecret doesn't see scripture that way at all. S/he believes it is "crystal clear".#55 without complexity or ambiguity in the slightest. Or can't you fkn read.
He believes too that "religion should be abolished". #52 <<<<<<THIS!!! from a Chaplain and and Pastor #20 with a congregation of over 300 #67.😂 That teaches and tutors RELIGION too!!! #20 🤣
Your boys a clown, sunshine.
"memorise the bible #52" My hairy arse😂
The bible can very well be clear or understandible AND more complex than a comparible text.
That makes no sense. But have it your way.
So your " tradesecret" is not the person you think they are is pointless. You put together a long list of N/A (mis)quotes.
Nope. There are absolutely no misquotes in my post above and they are all there for anyone interested to open those links and read them for themselves.#21
The Reverend Tradesecret is a contradictory, gasconading compulsive liar.
And it is only the most defiant and most the ignorant such as yourself that refuses to acknowledge it or admit it.
And that includes the Reverend Tradesecret himself!
Off you go now.😁
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@hey-yo
@Mr.BrotherD.Thomas
@TradesecretTrue. Even if someone is athiest, they should look into context and depth, not just simplicity. The bible is more dynamic and complex than greek mythology.
Well your new best buddy the Reverend Tradesecret doesn't agree with you. He believes that there is nothing complex at all about the scriptures nor does he believe the bible to be in anyway at all complicated and have no "depth" to look at. Quite the opposite in fact.
Tradesecret wrote:
The Bible is a primary source for me.#28
TheBible is clear from my point of view.#51
I am comfortable with our English bible translators and their attempts to convey the right balance as they understand it.#39
I hear god's word primarily through scripture whether it's being read or preached I have never had a personal communication from God without the Scriptures being involved #36
The authors in the bible are pretty clear about what they want to communicate.#62
Every word of God remains flawless#49
Well, I for one, do not believe that the bible is ambiguous at all. It is clear. Crystal clear in fact.#55
In my view, the Bible is the best source for understanding the reason for the existence of the Sabbath. #38
My view is that the bible is written by fallible men but that it is also breathed out by an infallible God. Like Jesus - it is both divine and human. The infallible God used fallible men to write his word to us - using their fallible tools and minds but nevertheless speaking the mind and word of God.Hence the bible is both infallible and inerrant. It is divine and totally perfect. It is its own measuring tool - making it inerrant. #9
The Bible is a book that reflects life in all of its glory. It does not hide the messiness of life. It is a very real book and sometimes hard book. I think that adds to its character and integrity. I cannot say I hate discussing any passage - because from my perspective all of it is relevant and useful.#3
It is more correct that the Bible is used by God as a tool to bring about change in us. Its main goal is to proclaim the glory of God, yet, it also has other goals which ought not be dismissed. #2
BUT THEN SAYS THIS!
I have never believed in religion. Religion ought to be abolished from my point of view.#52
THIS! ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ from the person that also claims to be paid by Universities to teach and tutor on religious matters to hundreds of university students, which must include BIBLE (written in ENGLISH) study in one form or another. Is a Chaplain to his countries Armed Forces and is also a Pastor#20 that preaches to a congregation of over "300 worshipers" every Sunday:
Tradesecret wrote: I am a pastor of a church with over 300 people#67
One would expect that for such a learned scholar as the Reverend Tradesecret claims to be and that holds all the beliefs mentioned above would have known for instance, that Lot was a righteous man, but he didn't. That he would have known that Jesus had secret disciples, but he didn't. That he would have known that Abrahams test was about fear, but he didn't. And if I had the time I could point out many, many other things that your new best buddy the Reverend Tradesecret doesn't know about scripture, although he brags to the members of this forum that he has "been taught to memorise the bible back wards and forwards from a very young age" and in many "ancient languages", and "tutored by the best academics & scholars in the world" #91 had a "Hebrew teacher" #45 and teaches and tutors students at Universities. too. #20
Tradesecret wrote: Ihave been taught to memorise the bible from very young. I have readthe bible numerous times. I try and read the OT once every year andthe NT twice a year. I know it reasonable well and can evenread Hebrew , Greek and Aramaic . #52
"Hebrew , Greek and Aramaic"
The Reverend Tradesecret is a Joke. And it is only the most defiant and most the ignorant that refuse to acknowledge it or admit it.
And that includes the Reverend Tradesecret himself!
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