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@Polytheist-Witch
I don't care what they are I'm not a f****** monotheist nor do I have live by the Bible.
But this thread is all about those verses, and I consider them to be misogynistic. So if you "don't care", or have an opinion, what the fk are doing posting on this thread?
let's not discuss any sort of positive religious topics or other religions
why don't you start a thread all about that which you consider "positively religious" ? I would be more than happy to discuss and or debunk anything you believe positive about the OT in particular. You see the OT is nothing more than an ancient war book recounting the wars of gods and men.
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@Polytheist-Witch
If something occurs in nature and it follows natural law therefore it's natural.
How would you describe walking on water, Witch?
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@Polytheist-Witch
I think you're just cherry-picking which of the monotheist religions are going to criticize because you don't want to talk bad about Jews and Muslims because you don't hate them as much as you hate Christians.
Nope! I just knock great giant holes in the bible in general. I don't care that you or Christians have a faith. Good luck to you, I say. It is these unreliable contradictory ambiguous scriptures that I have a problem with. So I will question and scrutinise them as I like. You can either rebut or simply but out. I don't care.
SO, in your own time, are those verses misogynous or not, Witch?
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@Polytheist-Witch
The verses are all Old Testament why don't you include Jews in your hate filled rhetoric.
If it pleases you for me to say Jewish Old Testament then I will . But the OT is read, taught, preached AND BELIEVED by Christians not Jews. Do you see your dilemma, Witch?
Those misogynistic verses are not mine. And if you choose to refer to them as " hate filled" then take it up with the Christians...... or the Jews. I have spread no hate here and you cannot point to where I have done so.
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@BrotherDThomas
whereas it's latest entry is the ever so Bible stupid 949HAVOC, where what he thinks he knows, he doesn't subsequent to easily correcting this Bible fool!
He's doing a very good impression of the complete and utter bible retarded cretin ethang5, don't you think , Brother?
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@949havoc
Who claims the Bible had a single word written by God? You? Pardon my laugh.
Nope I believe I said inspired or "God breathed";
2 Timothy 3:16 All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness.
I would agree with you again if you are saying that god did not write the bible as it is clearly human hand that put pen to paper. But it is the bible itself that claims that the words are "god inspired". Take it or leave it, I don't give a two shites either way.
That said, who wrote on the wall, was it god or man, Daniel 5?
A claim that will require citation. You offered four examples. Is that all?
One is enough to prove that the bible is contradictory and totally unreliable. And you are simply arguing for the sake of arguing which is something many Christians do on this forum. Ethang5 was a master at it, but that was all he was good for.
And let us not forget that you have admitted to there being many contradictions in the bible;
here>.#17
949havoc " The contradictions found in the Bible are legion. ". And I agree with you.
And those verses were four from the mouth of Jesus/god himself. And here are a few more from "the lord" himself.
JESUS said: "If anyone comes to me and does not hate father and mother, wife and children, brothers and sisters--yes, even their own life--such a person cannot be my disciple." (Luke 14:26)
JESUS said: "If anyone says, "I love God," and hates his brother, he is a liar; for he who does not love his brother whom he has seen cannot love God whom he has not seen." (1 John 4:20 )
John 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.
Genesis 32:30 And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
Exodus33:11 And the Lord spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.
And there are many more, but you are too stupid to be able to read them for yourself although you have admitted to there being a "legion" of contradictions.. So I won't be doing your homework for you.
And I ask you not to derail another members thread with the Ethangesque cretinous idiocy that you are clearly displaying .
Off you go now.
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@MonkeyKing
the goal of Mr. Thomas here is a little less clear considering he's either trolling or trying to preach a new strain of religion that's some intensive inerrancy Christian belief. I can't decide which is better.
You seem to have forgotten, they are vile misogynistic verses that neither you nor any Christian can justify, can you?
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@949havoc
The contradictions found in the Bible are legion. So what?
It throws serious doubt on the claim that it was inspired and or written by a perfect all knowing god. That's what!
1. Most books contain contradictions, so why should the Bible be singled out for criticism?
Because the claim is that it was inspired and or written by a perfect all knowing god. That's why.
2. And it's not as if the volume has a single one of its 66 books for which, to our knowledge, an original document [scroll].
Yet it is believed by millions as being the word of God.
3. Nor can it be assured that those who translated knew enough of an original language - even if #2 were not a huge issue.
This is true. Yet is is still read and preached from in every Christian pulpit around the globe.
4. Nor can it be assumed that biblical cultures were understood by 12th, 13th century translators, even if #2 were not a huge issue.
This is true. Yet it is still read and preached from in every Christian pulpit around the globe.
We're lucky the Bible is as well off in good words to live by as it is, in any modern language.
And for every "good word" or verse you may find in the bible, there will be others that contradict it.
From Jesus himself:
Equal then not equal
John 10:30 " I and the Father are one".John 14:28 “ I am going to the Father, for the Father is greater than I" .
I judge then I don't judge
John 5:22 , 30. " Moreover, the Father judges no one, but has entrusted all judgment to the Son. By myself I can do nothing; I judge only as I hear, and my judgment is just".John 8:15 " You judge by human standards; I pass judgment on no one.John 12:47 " I do not judge that person. For I did not come to judge the world, but to save the world.
I am my own witness and it is true. Then It is not true.
John 8:14 “Even if I testify on my own behalf, my testimony is valid, for I know where I came from and where I am going".John 5:31 “If I testify about myself, my testimony is not true.
Man is not my witness. Man is my witness .
John 33-34 “You have sent to John and he has testified to the truth. 34 Not that I accept human testimony; but I mention it that you may be saved.John 15:27 "And you also must testify, for you have been with me from the beginning.
Over to you.
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@MonkeyKing
So you're suggesting these are practiced, legitimate practices of current Christians?
Probably not but the point is these verses are still in the bible and there to be practiced as if they were written just yesterday..
To my mind they cannot be justified today no more than they could be justified at the time they were written.. They are vile misogynistic verses that neither you nor any Christian can justify, can you?
I have said it on this forum many times that this is what comes of thicko Christians adopting a god they didn't understand, from and time they didn't understand, and a culture they didn't understand. It is the baby of the Christian, and they should rock it!
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@Lemming
Personally, to me this sounds more like a post mocking religion,
And an atheist wouldn't expect you to think any different once these vile misogynistic BIBLICAL verses have been highlighted for all to see them for what they are.
Than an honest attempt at truth or understanding,
You are more than welcome to share your truth or understanding, why don't you?
All posts like this do is drive genuine religious folk 'away from DART.
Why do you believe that? I would have thought that "genuine religious folk" would hold their ground and simply explain to us these BIBLICAL verses if you believe they mean something other than what they actually do say. Do you have a defence that explains this misogyny?
genuine religious folk
And are you one of the "genuine religious folk" ?
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@FLRW
Oh, sorry, I thought this forum was about Jesus and Mary Magdelene.
Indeed, a thread started on the forum where he says he will only discuss his comments and claims " in a debate", FLRW. Is it any wonder this thread died a death with just one question.
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@949havoc
But, since you also insist that I must always show evidence in forum of statements made, that's your schtick, and you're welcome to it.
NOPE! What I said was ; I haven't insisted and you are not compelled. But if you "insist" on making claims then you should defend them with evidence when asked to do so or simply run the risk of making yourself look as stupid and cretinous as you are coming across at this moment. Good luck with your "debate".
Simply stop replying to me if you are not going to support your claims with evidence when >>>>>>>ASKED<<<<<<< to do so.
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@949havoc
forum
Nope. That is what it is.
So you acknowledge I am not compelled to respond as you insist.
I haven't insisted and you are not compelled. But if you "insists" on making claims then you should defend them with evidence when asked to do so or simply run the risk of making yourself look as stupid and cretinous as you are coming across at this moment. Good luck with your "debate".
Live by it, pls
I always do.
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@949havoc
Tell you what:You do your thing, I'll do mine. Fair enough?
Yep. You post on an open forum and I will comment and or challenge your comment. Good lad, your are beginning to understand that basics of a forum.
An open forum is exactly that: open.
There, you see. In a nut shell.
I don't see the forum is "Stephen's Forum,"
It is "Stephen's" and it is everyone else's too. I was beginning to believe you understood this.
forum
- 1.a meeting or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
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@Tradesecret
Repeating something ad nauseum does not suddenly make it true.
Obviously with all of your self created personas, your left hand doesn't know what your right hand has been doing and saying on your behalf, Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecrete.
The link and this post in particular has your user name and your smug self-righteous mug on it, Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecrete.
Tradesecrete wrote: Yeah, Us Indians - and I can say I am Indian because I lived there for a while - have a serious problem with sex. We are deviants - but this is ok - because we are just modeling our goddess. She would be proud of us. I am not proud - but she would.I hope those Hindu swine get licked up forever in a filthy Indian jail, Cause that is worse than death. If their streets are running with sh*t, What do you think their prisons are like?
It is as the Brother has spoken:
Brother D Thomas wrote: It matters not in whether you conceded to the FACT or not in admitting that you are an ungodly SEXUAL DEVIANT, and which is NOT A LIE, because the proof of this FACT is within your post as shown in this link herewith at the bottom 3 paragraphs!!! https://www.debate.org/forums/religion/topic/4341728/1/#7446963
Get well soon soon Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecrete.
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@949havoc
I've made a debate challenge, but I see you do not engage there. Sorry, it's there, or nothing.
Then simply don't spout your opinion or ask your questions on the open forum where they will be scrutinized, questioned, and challenged.
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@949havoc
Why don't you accept my debate challenge - there's only one - and I'll explain it?
I am quite happy to discuss it on the open forum with you. So far is all you have done is say things without supporting evidence and you should expect to be challenged when making unsupported claims.
Or if not, sit back and observe the arguments.
No. I won't be sitting back if I have a question for you. These are part of the argument . Arguments concerning statements and claims that you have made.
I will not entertain it here.
But you say above that you will be arguing here and have asked me to sit back and watch them? So why on the one hand are you saying that you won't discuss them here while on the other say that I should sit back and watch you argue here?
So again, when will this paradise on earth occur? If it hasn't already. And what is your biblical evidence?
The greatest sin is to limit God. Don't.
Can god be limited? Be careful, your questions in-tray is filing up.
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@949havoc
I see. Which is what, exactly?To return to Earth to establish the Kingdom of Heaven on Earth, which will replace all other governments on Earth, and restore Earth's paradisiacal glory it once had.
OOOOOOOOOoooooooo. Sounds lovely. When will this happen , do you think? And where in the bible do you believe it says this?
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@Tradesecret
Tradesecrete wrote: Yeah, Us Indians - and I can say I am Indian because I lived there for a while - have a serious problem with sex. We are deviants - but this is ok - because we are just modeling our goddess. She would be proud of us. I am not proud - but she would.They are quite nice. We meet lots of other persons who share our sexual deviancies - it is like going home. All of our brothers are there - and dads and uncles.This is clearly talking about someone who is Indian. I am not Indian. I have never lived in India. I do not have a goddess. Nor do I have uncles. Nor do I have a brother who lives in or who has ever been to India.So not only I do I deny I have ever made a confession of such sexual deviancy on the the DebartArt. Nor have I ever made a confession on Debate.org. There is no evidence of me - ever making such a confession.
Obviously with all of your self created personas, your left hand doesn't know what your right hand has been doing and saying on your behalf, Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecrete.
The link and this post in particular has your user name and your smug self-righteous mug on it, Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecrete.
Tradesecrete wrote: Yeah, Us Indians - and I can say I am Indian because I lived there for a while - have a serious problem with sex. We are deviants - but this is ok - because we are just modeling our goddess. She would be proud of us. I am not proud - but she would.I hope those Hindu swine get licked up forever in a filthy Indian jail, Cause that is worse than death. If their streets are running with sh*t, What do you think their prisons are like?
It is as the Brother has spoken:
Brother D Thomas wrote: It matters not in whether you conceded to the FACT or not in admitting that you are an ungodly SEXUAL DEVIANT, and which is NOT A LIE, because the proof of this FACT is within your post as shown in this link herewith at the bottom 3 paragraphs!!! https://www.debate.org/forums/religion/topic/4341728/1/#7446963
Get well soon soon Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecrete.
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@949havoc
949havoc, wrote; The accomplishment of his mission is what is important, not when it occurred.Stephen wrote; And he failed.He failed to unite the lost tribes of Israel.He failed to free the Jews from the Roman yoke.He failed to inherit the throne of King David.He failed to bring peace on earth.And he failed to rebuild the temple.949havoc wrote; His total mission is not yet complete.
I see. Which is what, exactly?
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@949havoc
The accomplishment of his mission is what is important, not when it occurred.
And he failed.
He failed to unite the lost tribes of Israel.
He failed to free the Jews from the Roman yoke.
He failed to inherit the throne of King David.
He failed to bring peace on earth.
And he failed to rebuild the temple.
What he actually managed to do was get himself and another rebel also named Jesus arrested for crimes against Rome(with the help of Jews that didn't believe he was the Messiah or his claim to the throne of David). For this crime he was himself nailed to two pieces of wood with a view overlooking the Kidron Valley. He lost his faith in his "father", laid in a rich man's private tomb in a rich man's private garden where he was nursed back from the brink of death with the aid of few of his rich secret disciples.
Here endeth the lesson.
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@BrotherDThomas
You only "owned up to your unchristian like despicable words" when I called you out upon them! I have NEVER personally called you stupid, or any epithetic, but only in the context of you being "Bible stupid," get the difference? Whereas you directly and personally call members epithets that go directly against Jesus' teachings as shown below, you blatant HYPOCRITE!
That's the part he refuses to see. Brother.
Furthermore, we can't blame you in wanting your thread closed down for obvious reasons, and that is because you are continually being made the Bible fool that you are within this thread! Therefore, this thread is NOT DEAD, but only you are DEAD in your weak attempts of trying to address our questions to you, but where you can't do it, other than to RUN AWAY from them as usual!
There are a few other reasons. But I think you summed it up nicely.
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@Tradesecret
Yes, Brother, And unlike you, I owned up to my words. I own them. They were my words. I regret saying them because no matter the truth of them
You see again, this how stupid you are. You cannot even grasp your own words. You have said that "you regret saying them" on the one hand , but then call them "the truth" on the other. Why would anyone, especially a Pastor and a Chaplain, ever "regret telling the truth"?
Didn't Jesus say "the truth will set you free"?John 8:31-32
Yet here you are, "regretting" that you told "the truth". 🤣 .You wouldn't know the truth if it smacked you between the eyebrows with a crucifix!🤣
This is why you are a clown, Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecrete.
let me repeat my words..
Don't you bother yourself with little details such as that Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecrete". That is what I am here for. I am quite capable of repeating your words for you when the occasion arises for me to do so.🤣
Get well soon. Reverend "Tradey" tradesecrete.
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@Lit
Why Did Jesus Come When He Did?
Because he believed ( or was led to believe)that he was rightful heir to the throne of David. And that it was his time to rule over all of Israel ....... but then so did John the Baptist . They had a right royal row over who should rule and who shouldn't down by the river.
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@BrotherDThomas
Surely we will add other “EXCUSES” as time goes by that Tradesecret will “have to come up with” .
Telling
you to prove his case for him, rewrite the scriptures. Put
words into the mouths of the biblical authors. Put
words into the mouths of the biblical characters. Put
words into the mouth of Jesus himself .
Exhibit
double standards. Exhibit hypocrisy. Respond to a question with a question of his own. Respond to
genuine questions with sarcasm. Redirect
the question to something he believes is easier to
answer. Ignore the questions altogether and won't ever answer it.
Pretend
he were never asked a question. Try to shame the
questioner. Persistently address the questioner in
derogatory terms, then complain that he is being picked on, harassed and bullied . Often use the 'answer me
first' tactic. Redefine words to suit his own narrative
and agenda . Accuse others of doing what it is he
constantly does himself . Re write members comments to enable him to
respond to a question, ie " so the question really is" OR "so what you mean is", OR "so what you are saying is". Proclaims his credentials on the www in the belief that by doing so that he has an higher authority overall matters biblical and his questioner in particular.
Purposefully
derail his own and other members threads because he has embarrassed
himself or he has been embarrassed by another member. And
the one that all believers continually use, go into denial
and tell bare faced lies.
All the above can be tagged to any one or all three of his personas.
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@Tradesecret
@BrotherDThomas
Yes, Brother, And unlike you, I owned up to my words. I own them. They were my words. I regret saying them because no matter the truth of them
So then, it is just as I thought, you stand by these uncalled for slights and this uncalled for abuse.
Tradesecret wrote: the serpent, satan, whatever - he is the accuser and you follow after him. you are his disciple. From my point of view - he is slime. You know like the stuff we find after a snail has passed by. creepy. disgusting. Ugly. \ #24
Tradesecret wrote: Stupid man. Dumb as fuck. Just continue to repeat your ignorance. #161
Tradesecret wrote: After all, you are the swine and the dogs that trample over the pearls. your comments to me are like water of a ducks back. #36
The worst I believe that I have referred to you was being is stupid, bible ignorant and a clown, BOO fkn HOO
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@Tradesecret
Stephen,You prove my point.
Nope! But you have proven mine with your own double standards WHEN IT SUITS YOU.
I have conceded before today that I should never have acted like you and attacked the person. I did. I was wrong.
First cut is the deepest and all that, Reverend. I never acted like you to begin with Reverend. I came to this forum in the genuine hope of discussing my own thought and opinions about these unreliable scriptures. You just couldn't handle the fact that I had a backhand for almost everything you had to say in defence of these unreliable, ambiguous half stories that make up the bible. You are a clown Reverend "tradey" and it didn't take me too long to show that you are a clown. Would you like an example of me showing you to be the clown that you are?
Here's ' your very latest clown moment:
Tradesecret " In order for me to study Hebrew, I needed a teacher. That he was a Hebrew was a bonus". Where ever on earth did you dig up this "Hebrew"!!!?? Mount Sinai?
🤣
You on the other hand would never concede the point.
What point? I have shown you to be the nineteen faced Reverend that you really are. I have nothing to concede. And I am not about to pat you on the back anytime soon.
Why not?
Because I know what you are as do many others here but they have just decided not to mention it.
Because you don't see it as being wrong.
What is wrong. What have I ever done that is wrong.
Bullies never ADMIT they do wrong or bully people. You are a bully.
and haven't you told me that my "your comments to me are like water of a ducks back". #36
This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^is what you say when it suits you to do so.
As I have already pointed out Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecrete, You started your vile uncalled for attacks towards me simply because you couldn't handle my line of questioning the scriptures that you didn't ever have answers for. They didn't train you for that, did they Reverend . Some academic training you had. You wasted your money or no doubt, someone else's .
Stop your whining and complaining. I personally believe you need another break, you simply cannot cope.
>>>>>>>If you don't like what I say, simply stop engaging me or block me. It is that simple.<<<<<<<
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@Tradesecret
Are you really so ignorant? Every time you raise anything about me personally is being done to personally attack me.
So you are accusing me of attacking and bullying you then. I see. This is coming from the same person that so flippantly tells us:
and that:
You need to get your priorities not to mention facts right, Reverend Tradey" Tradesecret". Or at least keep up with what you and or your other personas have to say on your own behalf.
I only raise what you have raised freely about yourself, Reverend "Tradey" Tradsecrete.
to go on about any of my personal life - is nothing short of a personal attack on me.
Well again, it is you that freely speaks of your "personal life", I simply raise what you have freely told this forum about yourself when and where appropriate.
And they are not personal attacks, silly? They are simply highlighting your extraordinary intellect and career that you feel is appropriate to tell us about at every given chance
You use ad hominin attack very often - you attack the man and not the argument.
I remind you again : "Words
are words. And that is all they are". #45 Tradesecret. And let us not forget your own "attacks" and ad hominin's";
Here>.
Tradesecret wrote: Stupid
man. Dumb as fuck. Just continue to repeat your ignorance. #161
Tradesecret wrote: the
serpent, satan, whatever - he is the accuser and you follow after
him. you are his disciple. From my point of view - he is slime. You
know like the stuff we find after a snail has passed by. creepy.
disgusting. Ugly. \ #24
Tradesecret wrote: After
all, you are the swine and the dogs that trample over the
pearls. your comments to me are like water of a ducks back. #36
"water off a duck's back", you say , yet here you are crying and whining.
Don't be so naïve as to think you can just continue to get away with it.
And don't you ever believe yourself to be whiter than white, Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecrete. I have a good and long memory for my age so much so that I still remember that it was you that started all the abuse towards me in the first instance. It was all uncalled for and all unnecessary. But you made the big mistake in believing that I was a dunce and easy target for your unjust abuse and imagined superior status and patronising tones in those first few months after I joined here.
Your own comments have simply come back to bite you and you don't like it. But " words are just words that can't do nothing" according to you, aren't they Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecrete?
Get well soon.... all three of you.
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@Tradesecret
@BrotherDThomas
I have always been male. Never been female. Never been unknown. Only a male. I am not a runaway. I love Jesus. He is my king and my God.Well it is on record that this simply is not true. And your wild claims of being "hacked" don't fly.Personal attacks are one of your strengths, aren't they?
Stating facts are not "personal attacks" And who have I "attacked" and how?
I bet your kids just love the fact that daddy is a bully... O they must be so proud of you for your bully skills.
Who have I "bullied" and how?
You can't keep throwing these kind of wild accusations around without evidence,"Tradey" Tradesecrete. It just not right,😁
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@Tradesecret
Being benevolent and doing good does not have to be faith based or does it require a belief in god as you are trying to impress on us that it is/does. You will keep getting the same reply until you can prove otherwise.So you concede the point then!!!!There is no point to concede, you idiot. And if you cannot prove that it is a requirement for one to have to believe in god or does it have be faith based to be benevolent and do good, then simply address the original op, or leave the thread.You have conceded.
Didn't you once brag to us that you "study the original languages, translate them to English", #25 ?
Yet you find it difficult to read plain modern English. Read the bold & underlined above . There is no point to concede, you idiot.
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@Tradesecret
@BrotherDThomas
I have always been male. Never been female. Never been unknown. Only a male. I am not a runaway. I love Jesus. He is my king and my God.
Well it is on record that this simply is not true. And your wild claims of being "hacked" don't fly.
Tradesecret as a female:Tradesecret as a male:Tradesecret now as an unknown, huh?:Tradesecret changes back into a male once AGAIN:
Get well soon Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecret 😂
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@Tradesecret
@BrotherDThomas
Tradesecret, since your gender status is all over the map, where one time you are a female, another time you are a male, then you are unknown, then again you become a male, therefore your gender is on a merry-go-round in your inept and weak profile pages where we don’t know “what” you are at any given time!
This inability to make up his/her mind concerning if is he is a she points to him/her not being able to keep up with all of his/her personas that s/he has created in his/her own mind, Brother. This , Brother, is what becomes of compulsive liars when they cannot remember what each persona has said or claimed on behalf of any of the other invented personas. I'd call it a sickness myself, and in Jesus' time I am sure he would have been accused of "having a demon"....or three.
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@Tradesecret
Pope Francis assures atheists: You don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven.so the pope is just another person. He is the head of his church. This is true. But are you saying he is infallible and we must believe everything he says?Nope, I am saying that no one should listen you and your own shite, and to take your smug ramblings with a pinch of salt, to put it bluntly. You do not know the scriptures that you admit to simply "passing on what you have been told " to pass on for who knows how long? And that have been teaching to all those universities ; this is you isn't it?But they should listen to you ? Why?
Nope. I am not religious in the slightest. Anyone can take or leave or a challenge what I have to say on an open forum.
You bluster here more than anyone else- except perhaps your two other personalities - Brother and Dimtim.
Lifting my own words and phrases will not get you anywhere "Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecrete. It only shows your inability to speak your own mind not to mention how empty your head really is..
The pope is a person - who is trained in his doctrine.
And much better than you claim to have been "trained". Lets have a look at your "training" shall we, starting with your most recent claim.
Your training in the Hebrew language taught to you-:
Tradesecrete wrote:
" by a Hebrew"#45😂
"I
study the original languages, translate them to English", #25
"I
do understand Orthodoxy. I studied and was tutored by
academics, scholars, and priests and fathers from the Orthodox
Church. #91
" in my role as a pastor - which I also do, I counsel in pastoral
care. And yes, I am qualified by certified colleges with proper
accreditation. I am also a chaplain to our Countries Defence
forces, a position I could not have without proper qualifications. #20
All very impressive I say. Yet you seems very embarrassed about all of these claims made by yourself about yourself. Yet you couldn't even remember that " Lot was a righteous man in the eyes of god". In fact you said complete the opposite about Lot didn't you Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecrete? What was it now?
"Lot was no paragon on virtue" or words the the effect. <<< THIS!!! and with all of the "training" under your belt.
I am sure the POPE wouldn't be so bible ignorant about what God thought of Lot.
quickly -attacked the man. ad hominin.
How have I attacked you?
Tradesecrete wrote: I in most parts are merely passing on the teaching of what i have received , I don't have an agenda. I don't charge students, I charge universities when they request me to lecture to them. #20So going by that standard, I think it is safe to say the Pope knows a little more about scripture than you will ever live to know. You even tell us that you don't have "an agenda", so you tell me, why would anyone listen to the likes of you, a smug fly-by night- holy roller that doesn't remember the Great Commission given by Jesus to all of his disciples.?Oh and again. bringing up things from the past.
Indeed . I will when it is called for me to do so. You don't seem to understand that . And are they really from the past? Are you now denying all the above and are you attempting to put them in the past?. I know that you would like me to put them in the past, but again you miss the point, your claims are clearly as much a part of your present as they are of your past. They are your claims, they are not mine or have they been invented by me, but by you.
(A)
And things I have explored. I don't have an agenda. The Great Commission is not an agenda.
There is clearly an agenda to the The Great Commission and here again you have shown how completely ignorant you are. .
(B)
Some people talk about it being a mission.
Mission, in Christianity, is an organized effort for the propagation of the Christian faith. That is an agenda.
The pope is still not my god.
And neither are you, but the Pope is seated where he is seated and it has been handed down to him by Jesus through Peter his "rock". Which puts him in a much greater position to talk on such things and "pass on" concerning scripture. You don't have to accept what he has to say on the matter scripture much less I. I simply acknowledge his position and his "training".
“You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience.Ok. Again I am not sure your point.That is because you are stupid.Delightful - again - just go straight for the man. ad hominin.
Stating a fact is what you mean. You have done nothing but display your own bible ignorance and stupidity where scripture is concerned from day one. And have shown it as recent as your last two post to me above at (A) & (B) above. So stop crying and playing victim.
And why? because that is your default position BECAUSE you cannot present a solution.
A solution to what?
The pope is irrelevant in this context.
NOPE! . The Pope's message is quite relevant, you just don't to want it it be.
He[the pope] is the head of his church.Well not just any church is it, Reverend?The Pope has inherited the very church of the person that Jesus in the bible tells us he would build his church on: Peter. Or have you forgotten this ALSO??"Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18).Wow ! you almost sucked me into a full on apologetic. Well done. But why waste my time. You don't believe this - and I don't believe it. The Catholics might - but so what?
Again, complete ignorance,not to mention intolerance of another "faith". I keep telling you, the Pope has inherited the great throne and church handed down from St Peter, the same church that JESUS HIMSELF handed to Peter which puts him in a greater position that you to speak on the scriptures.
Read what he had to say on the mater of those not believing in god AND have no faith.
Pope Francis assures atheists: You don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven.
“You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience.
“Sin, even for those who have no faith, exists when people disobey their conscience.”
Get well soon, Reverend "Tradey" tradesecrete" all four of you.🤣
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@Tradesecret
Pope Francis assures atheists: You don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven.so the pope is just another person. He is the head of his church. This is true. But are you saying he is infallible and we must believe everything he says?
Nope, I am saying that no one should listen you and your own shite, and to take your smug ramblings with a pinch of salt, to put it bluntly. You do not know the scriptures that you admit to simply "passing on what you have been told " to pass on for who knows how long? And that have been teaching to all those universities ; this is you isn't it?
Tradesecrete wrote: I in most parts are merely passing on the teaching of what i have received , I don't have an agenda. I don't charge students, I charge universities when they request me to lecture to them. #20
So going by that standard, I think it is safe to say the Pope knows a little more about scripture than you will ever live to know. You even tell us that you don't have "an agenda", so you tell me, why would anyone listen to the likes of you, a smug fly-by night- holy roller that doesn't remember the Great Commission given by Jesus to all of his disciples.?
“You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience.Ok. Again I am not sure your point.
That is because you are stupid.
But what would he know? He's only the PopeYou are full of surprises aren't you Stephen?
I hope so. But it isn't hard to surprise you at all, is it Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecrete ?
He[the pope] is the head of his church.
Well not just any church is it, Reverend?
The Pope has inherited the very church of the person that Jesus in the bible tells us he would build his church on: Peter. Or have you forgotten this ALSO??
"Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it" (Matt. 16:18).
So not even the gates of hell and the likes of you, "will not prevail against it", Reverend "Tradey".
Get well soon Reverend "Tradey" Tardesecrete... all four of you🤣.
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Pope Francis assures atheists: You don’t have to believe in God to go to heaven.
“You ask me if the God of the Christians forgives those who don’t believe and who don’t seek the faith. I start by saying – and this is the fundamental thing – that God’s mercy has no limits if you go to him with a sincere and contrite heart. The issue for those who do not believe in God is to obey their conscience.
“Sin, even for those who have no faith, exists when people disobey their conscience.”
But what would he know? He's only the Pope
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@Tradesecret
Being benevolent and doing good does not have to be faith based or does it require a belief in god as you are trying to impress on us that it is/does. You will keep getting the same reply until you can prove otherwise.So you concede the point then!!!!
There is no point to concede, you idiot. And if you cannot prove that it is a requirement for one to have to believe in god or does it have be faith based to be benevolent and do good, then simply address the original op, or leave the thread.
Get well soon Reverend.
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@Tradesecret
Which religious position?
I don't have a religious position.
Being benevolent and doing good does not have to be faith based or does it require a belief in god as you are trying to impress on us that it is/does. You will keep getting the same reply until you can prove otherwise.
Get well soon Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecrete.. all three of you.
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@Tradesecret
Pointing out that you are a bully and have personal vendettas is not being a victim. It is calling you out as a bully and personal.
Who have I bullied? How have bullied anyone?
The fact is - you have been well and truly beaten up over a long period
If that is the case, you won't see me playing the victim.
- and the only way you feel you can score a point is by attacking people.
Who have I "attacked".And how have I "attacked" them?
So, when you are ready princess, I am sure many here would just love to see you support those wild claims of my bullying and personal vendettas.
Get well soon Reverend.. all three of you.
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@Tradesecret
How can I respond to you about good - until you tell us what good is
See above you clown.I answered. You are skirting the subject with nonsense, like the patronising clown that you are.
Being benevolent and doing good does not have to be faith based or does it require a belief in god as you are trying to impress on us that it is/does. You will keep getting the same reply until you can prove otherwise.
Get well soon Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecrete.. all three of you.
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@Lit
There's a quote somewhere, I think it is originally from C.S Lewis: Jesus did not come to make bad people good, but to make dead men alive.It sounds nice, but what is the difference between being good and being alive?
It could well mean that Jesus considered anyone alive without him and his teachings in their lives were "dead". And only through his teachings would he resurrect them from (living) dead into the land of the living.
Simply put: join me, believe in me and come back to life.
I think in those ancient times anyone not religious or had turned their backs on religion /god were simply considered to be dead. The idiom of the times so to speak.
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@FLRW
Notorious televangelist Jim Bakker and his church in southwestern Missouri was ordered to pay $156,000 in restitution to viewers of his religious talk show who were convinced into purchasing a fake Covid cure during the early stages of the pandemic.
I did mention such-like here >>
Stephen wrote: Priests and Pastors have also been exploiting the weak and the venerable and the naive of society for millennia too, especially at times of grief and mourning. #47
As do lawyers : "“Beware of the teachers of the law. They like to walk around in flowing robes and love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and have the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at banquets.Yet they shamelessly cheat widows out of their property and then pretend to be pious by making long prayers in public. Because of this, they will be severely punished.”".
Luke 20:45- 47
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@Tradesecret
Firstly, everyone has faith -
Prove it.
Secondly, I am not denying that atheists can do good.
NO. , what you are doing is implying that goodness and benevolence are linked explicitly to god and faith. Can you prove that?
Atheists MUST borrow from other worldviews - worldviews logically which are religious.
Opinion. And we are talking YOUR OWN religious views concerning benevolence and doing good and not my world views.
You can't say atheism has no doctrines but is able to encourage people to do good.
"doctrines" are different all over the world as are religious doctrines. The difference being that you believe that your doctrines on benevolence and doing good stem from god and his laws, and I don't. As I have said, religion does not have the monopoly on whether or not a person can be benevolent and do good. This is simply a haughty claim made by the religious.
Get well soon Reverend....all three of you.
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@Tradesecret
Please just keep to the topic. You know it is against the rules to derail people's threads with your personal vendettas.
You were the one that brought "irrationality" into the mix, princess. Not me.
You are the one that brought your own "world view" into the mix princess. Not me.
You were the one that brought your own tutoring in "Hebrew by a Hebrew " into the mix princess. Not me.
Tradesecret wrote: In order for me to study Hebrew, I needed a teacher. That he was a Hebrew was a bonus.
Odd that you also call your learned teacher "A Hebrew" . Let that sink in for a while Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecrete.
your personal vendettas.
Against whom? Are you playing victim again, Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecrete?
You are the one that insists on freely bringing in your own personal qualifications and status into many arguments and discussions in the wild belief that they somehow give you some-kind of authority over all other members here. Well they don't. You have shown us frequently how bible ignorant you really are, would you like some examples, Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecrete?
At least I am consistent with my worldview
And so am I until something causes me to change my world view. And it is not your "world view" that I am bringing into question is it thicko? No. What I bring into question are these unreliable ambiguous half stories that go to make up the scriptures.
Get well soon Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecrete ... all three of you.
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Please explain why it is a ridiculous statement to say people should do good for the sake of doing good.
Its not. I thought I made that clear. Doing good for goodness sake doesn't have to be linked to a faith . Doing good for the sake of it should be enough all on its own. Faith and Christianity does not have the monopoly on goodness or good deeds.
And there it is, linking faith with doing good.ABSOLUTELY! And with both guns firing as well. Faith is at the bottom of everyone's thinking.
Again, you are clearly speaking for others. Being and doing good is not necessarily always linked to faith or a good turn does not necessarily mean one is faithful to god as much as w you wish it to be. You are now clearly suggesting that a good turn comes about through one having a faith in god; this is utter bollocks. I know kind and generous atheists. One of my sisters was a prime example and to my annoyance at times.
People can and do, perform good benevolent things without faith and simply because they choose to do so.
Get well soon Reverend.
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Yes, I studied in an university which had a variety of different religious figures.It is none of your business.
You make it the business of others from the moment that you declared freely your back story to the www that now all of a sudden includes being tutored in Hebrew by a Hebrew among your other claims to fame. No doubt you will complain about what it is that YOU have freely chosen to reveal about yourself at a later date. you just can't help yourself. I have told you, when one of your other personas makes these claims on your behalf they will always fall back on you, the Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecrete.
At least I am consistent with my worldview - unlike you - who is in denial - and irrational.
I don't believe there is anything irrational about my own beliefs where these ambiguous half stories that make up the scriptures are concerned. You believe that a three days old rotten stinking corpse rose from the dead, I don't. I have never witnessed this alleged phenomena and neither have you. Yet you question the minds of those those that don't believe it and their "irrationality"?
At least I am consistent with my worldview
And so am I until something causes me to change my world view. And it is not your "world view" that I am bringing into question is it thicko? No. What I bring into question are these unreliable ambiguous half stories that go to make up the scriptures.
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@Tradesecret
My Hebrew Teacher -
😮So on top of all your other claimed talents and schools of learning, qualifications and accreditations,
Tradesecrete wrote: I do understand Orthodoxy. I studied and was tutored by academics, scholars, and priests and fathers from the Orthodox Church.But in my role as a pastor - which I also do, I counsel in pastoral care. And yes, I am qualified by certified colleges with proper accreditation. I am also a chaplain to our Countries Defence forces, a position I could not have without proper qualifications. #20
You now freely tell us on a forum of the WWW that you had a Hebrew teacher too. You have been a busy chap , haven't you🤣.
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Now Stephen, can you explain why you think anyone should do good things?It makes, or would make for a better world in my opinion. But that is only my opinion.Yes. That is JUST your opinion.
YEP! Correct. I said it was my opinion. Repeating me isn't going to get us far is it you clown.
I do think people should do good for the sake of doing good.
Why ever not? You just have to link good with faith don't you.
What a ridiculous statement to make and coming from a Pastor and a Chaplain too.
I can't for the life of me understand why you would agree with doing good for the sake of it being [the] right [thing to do]
That will be because you are thick,Reverend "Tradey" Tradesecrete. ... and don't know your scriptures
I am not the predator though.
Yes you are. And you seem to have confused the word "pray" with the word prey. The Christian church has preyed on the weak and the frail. The illiterate, The down trodden and disenfranchised, the sick and the bereaved and the mourning with promises . Its a habit that the priesthood will never shake off. It is your bread and butter.
What is your measure of right and wrong?
Cause no harm. Which the church/religion been doing so for millennia.
obviously not the normal understanding of Judea Christian ethics?
Which are what? Keeping in mind that you have just said; "I do think people should do good for the sake of doing good". ?
therefore will use Christian standards.
And there it is, linking faith with doing good.
And this is what fkn gets me about thick, dense holier than thou dickheads like you,. You cannot accept that a person like me can have morals and standards because I do not believe in a dead man rising to walk the earth again or have a faith.
Who are you to claim the monopoly of what human standards are or should be simply because you have a faith. ?
I don't think doing good gets us a ticket to heaven.
Well that is because you haven't read your bible have you Reverend "tradey" Tradesecrete.
Here's some clues for the clown;
"What good is it, my brothers, if someone says he has faith but does not have works? Can that faith save him? If a brother or sister is poorly clothed and lacking in daily food, and one of you says to them, “Go in peace, be warmed and filled,” without giving them the things needed for the body, what good is that? So also faith by itself, if it does not have works, is dead." (James 2:14–17)
"Do you want to be shown, you foolish person, that faith apart from works is useless?" (James 2:20)
“And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me to give every man according as his work shall be.” (Revelation 22:12)
Get well soon Reverend.... all three of you.
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@Tradesecret
Now Stephen, can you explain why you think anyone should do good things?
It makes, or would make for a better world in my opinion. But that is only my opinion, thicko.
And you can't answer because ............
I will answer how I like.
With that said; sometimes people get taken for a ride and have their kindness taken for a weakness . You see there are always predators like yourself that are ready to exploit kind, charitable, generous and honest people. Pastors and Priests and Lawyers have been doing so for millennia.
And Priests and Pastors have also been exploiting the weak and the venerable and the naive of society for millennia too, especially at times of grief and mourning.
And as I mentioned recently, to be offering compensation for these things, rather than teaching that true morality only takes place when you want to do what you are doing, is educationally and developmentally debilitating.
Why should your subjective morality be expected of everyone else, including Jesus?
Who said I expect everyone to feel and think the same as me. I gave only my opinion, that is all it is. You can either agree or not agree.
Ok, your turn thicky, to the point of my OP
So are you saying it is better to do good for a ticket to heaven or it is better to give and do good because you choose to give freely without expecting anything in return? Yes or no?
Deary me; I forgot:
Tradesecret wrote: "I
counsel all of my clients never to answer yes or no. Why would I not
take my own advice? Life is more complex than black and white - yes
and no answers". #15
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@Tradesecret
Well the only one playing dumb is you.
So you keep saying, but you still haven't shown these "very clear differences" between a living flesh, blood and bone person and a once dead and resurrected flesh, blood and bone person and called this idea "plausible".
Tradesecrete wrote: I suggested that there is clearly a difference between a resurrected body and a non-resurrected one. #28
So what is the difference stupid? And let us see this "very clear difference".
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