Stephen

Just like you I agree the bible is mess of confusing and contradictions.  #186
Just like you I too believe the New Testament Jesus story to be mythical. #16
Just like you I too believe history shows how dangerous Christianity has been.  #153
Just like you I don't believe a dead rotting and stink days old corpse came back to life again. #101
Just like you I don't believe in a person/god with supernatural powers #274
Just like you I agree that there is a weirdness to the christian beliefs even today#141
Just like you I agree that the story of Noah's flood simply doesn't stand up to the lightest of scrutiny #14
Just like you I agree that Theists have the burden of proof. .  #61

Yep. Spot on. Your learning. Well done! Its amazing isn't it how much alike we actually think. keep it up.

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Just like you I agree the bible is mess of confusing and contradictions.  #186
Just like you I too believe the New Testament Jesus story to be mythical. #16
Just like you I too believe history shows how dangerous Christianity has been.  #153
Just like you I don't believe a dead rotting and stink days old corpse came back to life again. #101
Just like you I don't believe in a person/god with supernatural powers #274
Just like you I agree that there is a weirdness to the christian beliefs even today#141
Just like you I agree that the story of Noah's flood simply doesn't stand up to the lightest of scrutiny #14
Just like you I agree that Theists have the burden of proof. .  #61

Yep. spot. Your learning. Well done!

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Is it a sin?

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@Wylted

God does care about you. He has given you free will

Explain free will given to us god?

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Is it a sin?

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@sadolite

God doesn't even care about mass genocide.

Yes well, one read of the Old Testament proves that doesn't it? Seeing that he had a direct hand in most of it.

I believe in the creator but I don't believe the creator controls outcome of anything other than his initial creation of everything.

That is not what the bible says. So we can discard most of it then can't we. If we go by your own belief.

God already knows the outcome based on the inherent chance of probability and chaos of his creation......

And his did nothing at all to correct the mistakes in his creation.

That some things will do this and some things will do that, some things will be effected by this and some things will be effected by that, and all things that exists will be effected by something based on where they are and the moment in time that they are there.

Then it all wasn't as " very good " as first believed , was it?

"And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day." Genesis 1:31

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@Wylted

how are you still conflating sinless with blameless?

How are you still not understand the sinless means blameless?

1 John 3.4 (KJV) for sin is the transgression of the law.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<which fkn law do you think this refers to?

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@Wylted

Wylted wrote: “Enoch is blameless because he walked in faith with the lord. The Bible mentions Enoch walking in faith. He is blameless because his sins are forgiven.”
Stephen wrote: How do you know that Enoch's sins have been forgiven/ or cleansed by god? Does the scripture say as such?

The Bible doesn't say that Jesus took a shit, but we all know he did. Please be less stupid.

So you don't know and you don't have any evidence - not even biblical evidence for this then, again. But are simply surmising and guessing what may or may not of happened. You see Wylted, you are confusing yourself with what Jesus and the bible actually says, with that which you want it to say , when it fkn doesn't!

And you have missed this too>>

The Bible also calls Moses blameless. But in the same story, and by the same writer it shows that Moses did kill a man when he was younger and was never punished for it, so we know blameless does not mean sinless.

Was he? Do you have the bible verse to support this. Here are the first five books of the bible.Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, now show me?

Or are you just guessing again?

Being blameless is not about being sinless.

Breaking the law of god is a sin according to the BIBLE. To not ever have broken the law of god means that your are sinless/blameless because one has walked

IN ALL the ways of god.

. As John says here>>

1 John 3.4 (KJV) for sin is the transgression of the law.<<<<<<<<<<<<<<which fkn law do you think this refers to?

Are you seriously mentally disabled?

NOPE!

Now to those two questions above.

and a question from me to you on this thread here>>https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6433-response-on-apostasy-and-stoning at post #6 . When you have the time.

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@Athias

Mine. Because as god and the bible clearly show that he didn't get it right on three accessions. Why keep destroying and then rebuilding the same model. This is failure, BIG time.
This is not a question especially if the inquiry is responded to by the very same person who cast it.

So you won't answer then.. and I am not in the least bit surprised. For to answer at all you will have to concede that god is a cretin that won't learn from his own mistakes.

Not to mention, your grammar and punctuation are terrible.

Well if all you have is my punctuality and grammar to knock me on, I will gladly take that above all of your bullshite.

Which one of us is full of shit?

Well who else!? Its YOU!

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@Wylted

Cleansed of what?
Are you literally thinking cleansed means like washed with soap?

Nope. I am thinking that you are going to say cleansed of our sins.

And sweet as a nut you say just that below.

Jesus became the sacrifice for all sins and the greatest sacrifice.

Nice. I am glad you said that , and I will explain why later , if you are still about.

As much as you debate. Christians on here, is this legitimately the first time you have heard of this concept?

Nope! But you are coming across as if it your first time debating this or any biblical "concept"..

Ok we can back up a little now, given that you believe you have it all correct- in your mind at least.

Blameless means walking in faith. It's not about obeying God's laws. You are called blameless because your sins have been cleansed through the blood of Christ.

Then the question here is why, for instance, were not Job, Noah, Zecharia and Elizabeth simply said to be sinless instead of ` only ` blameless. If, as you say, there is a difference?

You have also said that;

“Enoch is blameless because he walked in faith with the lord. The Bible mentions Enoch walking in faith. He is blameless because his sins are forgiven.”

Yes Enoch, probably the most enigmatic and interesting character in the bible although, he is only mentioned in the Old Testament twice, I believe.

Genesis 5:18-24. 1 Chronicles 1:3

And the only piece of anything of substance we get about Enoch the person is this> “Enoch had lived 65 years, he became the father of Methuselah. After he became the father of Methuselah, Enoch walked faithfully with God 300 years and had other sons and daughters”.

Strange then that although Enoch didn’t die and it was said that he was “taken directly to heaven” there is no mention of him being “blameless” OR sinless while he was here on earth. And further, although Enoch’s book is mentioned in the bible, his book wasn’t included at all?

How do you know that Enoch's sins have been forgiven/ or cleansed by god? Does the scripture say as such?

You have said that;

The Bible also calls Moses blameless. But in the same story, and by the same writer it shows that Moses did kill a man when he was younger and was never punished for it, so we know blameless does not mean sinless.

Was he? Do you have the bible verse to support this. Here are the first five books of the bible.Genesis, Exodus, Leviticus, Numbers and Deuteronomy, now show me.

But my research has indicated that blameless and sinless are two different things.Blameless means walking in faith. It's not about obeying God's laws. You are called blameless because your sins have been cleansed through the blood of christ.

I see, so John is wrong then?

1 John 3.4 (KJV) for sin is the transgression of the law.

Now the last time I looked , "the law" was handed down by god, they are gods laws, if we are to believe the bible?

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Response on Apostasy & Stoning

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@Wylted

I bet anyone reading your book on Islam would stand to gain a lot from it.

Why?

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@Wylted

(A) they closed the thread yesterday. But my research has indicated that blameless and sinless are two different things. Blameless means walking in faith. It's not about obeying God's laws.

Then what is it about.

You are called blameless because your sins have been cleansed through the blood of christ

Cleansed of what?

Could you first please answer those questions if you can.

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@Wylted

(A) they closed the thread yesterday. But my research has indicated that blameless and sinless are two different things. Blameless means walking in faith. It's not about obeying God's laws.

Then what is it about.

(B) When I said none are sinless other than christ. The Bible does not contradict this when it calls Enoch blameless. Enoch is blameless because he walked in faith with the lord. The Bible mentions Enoch walking in faith. He is blameless because his sins are forgiven.

You need to read closely as to what you have written there^^^^^^^^ You may want to change it?

You are called blameless because your sins have been cleansed through the blood of christ

Cleansed of what?

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@Wylted

I just sent you a message responding to some of your comments because the thread was locked. Would you like me to repost them here?

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The golden rule

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@Tradesecret

Ok. So is all that you are saying, after all of your word salad is that, Jesus' "take" about the sermon or any of his sermons and including in the golden rule, is that we should love god first and above all else? <<<<<<<<<<<that is a question I would like you to answer. That only requires a yes or no answer and shouldn't be too difficult to you, a man of the cloth.

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Just like you I agree the bible is mess of confusing and contradictions.  #186
Just like you I too believe the New Testament Jesus story to be mythical. #16
Just like you I too believe history shows how dangerous Christianity has been.  #153
Just like you I don't believe a dead rotting and stink days old corpse came back to life again. #101
Just like you I don't believe in a person/god with supernatural powers #274
Just like you I agree that there is a weirdness to the christian beliefs even today#141
Just like you I agree that the story of Noah's flood simply doesn't stand up to the lightest of scrutiny #14
Just like you I agree that Theists have the burden of proof. .  #61

YEP. All correct.

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https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job%201&version=NIV

Instead you purport to feign anger at others for injustice, cruelty, and evil as you see it.

Well, we are all built different , Reverend, and by gods grace, I am told. But I can rarely remember being angry and I wouldn't "feign " my anger . I wouldn't have to. I am on the other end of a keyboard so you wouldn't know either way, now would you.

I don't believe that I have ever been angry with you, I like you when you are the Reverend. In fact I am trying to remember the last time I was angry with any member here:

Lets see. Ah, yes it was a vile comment made by the man that you aspire to be like; he said;

Ethang5 wrote: Why would any sort of jihadist keep me awake? Most of the world is not as run over with jihadists as England is. Only sheep or soldiers get killed by jihadists. #144

Seriously Reverend, even though you tell us he " is a good friend of yours and aspired to be more like him, " #76 Why would you aspire to be like such a vile person as he?

And YOU a man of the cloth, too? Of all the places you could have shown your reverence and diplomacy as a Pastor and a Chaplain, you ignored this completely! It was me that had to remind this vile man that some of those "sheep" belonged to gods own flock. And yes I was extremely angry. He should have been banned for that comment but had only he had just returned from a lengthy ban for constant sexual harassment of a member. You see, the man that you aspire to be like, well, he's also a misogynist too, you see.#17 Ragnar

To be clear I own all of my words.

That will be in reference to your comment that "Words are words. And that is all they are". #45 Tradesecret wouldn't it? Then why are you so disturbed by what it is that I have to say about the scriptures and by giving my "take " on them, if " words are just words"?

And lets not forget you have also said "The Bible is a book. It can't cause anything" .#3 Tradesecret

I might well wish I did not write all of them.

Well if I was you and insults aside, I would be down right ashamed and embarrassed at some of the things that you had wrote about yourself . Fortunately, I am not. and I can assure you that my feet are firmly on the ground, Reverend

When caught out with your words- you just say “I don’t regret them”.

That is not catching anyone out, you idiot, that is an admission coming from me , and made by me, I don't regret them. Unless you can find something in particular that you believe I should be regretful for, can you? Is there?

Stop being such a sad and pathetic person and start contributing to the topics in a constructive manner. Otherwise please leave the thread.

I have and I do. If you do not wish to be challenged on your own comments then I can only suggest that you think really hard before posting anything else that you may regret. Because it is your own lack of thought that causes you to paint yourself into a tight biblical and theological corner.

The only derailment here is responding to your ridiculous lies and distractions.

Then simply do not respond. It really is that simple Reverend.

I would though like to request that in your LAST and FINAL response to me to simply put up links to where I have deliberately lied about anything.....if you can.

Get well soon Reverend.

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The golden rule

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@Tradesecret

Join the discussion if you want

Have and you should make up the mind about where it is that YOU are coming from.

First you say that the sermon on the mount is "unique! to Jesus & Christianity", and you were shown to be wrong:;

so significantly different that Jesus’ golden rule is unique. #1 Tradesecret

The golden rule in the context of the sermon on the mount is prefaced with love God #10 Tradesecret

And then you changed your position to say that what you meant was that it was only Jesus' "take" on it !?

I have asked you simply to explain what Jesus' "take" was:

Here>>Ok, how do you know what a mans "take " was during the time and place and society of the ancients from two thousand years ago? here#30

You have not refuted it. Stating your opinion is not a refutation.

Well I cannot "refute" that which you won't explain, now can I Reverend. I, as have others on the thread, have refuted the fact the JESUS' sermon on the mount is not unique to Jesus.. I am unable to refute what you have called only his "take" on it or version of the golden rule and what it meant to him? Or how you even know?

If you don't know or cannot explain just say so.

Its a simple enough question especially for a one claiming to be a Pastor and a Chaplain to his countries armed services? Here>.

Tradesecrete wrote: But in my role as a pastor - which I also do, I counsel in pastoral care. And yes, I am qualified by certified colleges with proper accreditation. I am also a chaplain to our Countries Defence forces, a position I could not have without proper qualifications. #20

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HELL BOUND MUSLIMS, TRY TO DEFEND ISLAM AGAINST WOMEN!

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@Wylted

Now admit you were wrong g about good people existing.

I won't because I know good people and genuine people exist. I have met many of them..

You are not such a huge piece of shit that you actually believe that torture of animals, political violence slavery and pollution are good things.

There are people just like that . I know a few of those bastards too. So on that I will agree with you, weather you consider me to be" a piece of shit" or not. But then so is god. He unjustly kills at the drop of an hat simply on a wager. Human life is cheap to god, literally, humans come ten a penny to him.

Have you not ever read the sad story of one of his most loyal and righteous and blameless servants, Job?

Here take the time to read this 3 minute vile story over a bet and costing the lives of ten children>

Is inherited sin the same as being sinful, one's self??

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@Wylted

I based all of us being bad people on evidence outside of the Bible.

Base away, but the bible has shown you to be wrong in your assumptions. The bible say there were righteous and just and blameless people. I just don't see how things are or can, be anyway different from the time of the bible.

And you are welcome to base you opinions , thoughts and theories on what and from where you choose to take them. I quoted the bible simply because you told me your version of what Paul was talking about. And for no other reason than that.

Maybe the Bible is wrong

I agree, but the times have to be considered? The New Testament is a classic enigma of ambiguous anomalies that make up the half told stories about a man from the Middle East that believed himself to be King of the Jews..... not Christians, and nothing more.

But your choice is your own. I don't set out to convince anyone of anything. Or convert anyone to atheism. I just spill my thoughts, and opinions and theories about what only I believe about the bible. I am not to interested in what anyone else chooses to believe. I am interested in what they have to say when challenging what I have to say, or believe and think?

I don't think k I am personally wrong to day that we have all sinned.

The bible says so, in fact Christians are of the stupid belief that we "inherited sin"! Is inherited sin the same as being sinful, one's self??

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@Wylted

The bible shows you to be wrong. I am not too bothered that you will not accept this, that to me is your problem if you choose it to be or not to be.

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@Wylted

That depends on whether on or not one is speaking in human terms or godly religious terms, doesn't it?

No it does not.

I think it does and don't accept your opinion. But I welcome the fact that you have one, unsupported as it is.

Nobody is blameless.

Sorry but THE BIBLE itself will give you an argument there.

Job 1 . In the land of Uz there lived a man whose name was Job. This man was blameless and upright;

Genesis 6:9

This is the account of Noah. Noah was a righteous man, blameless in his generation.

Luke 1:6 Zechariah and Elizabeth, They were both righteous in the sight of God, walking blamelessly in all the commandments and requirements of the Lord.

There are more. But the book itself proves you to be wrong.

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@Wylted

okay, I will ask him,,

Why not find out for yourself instead of relying on anyone that is allowed to lie to further a cause. And then approach with your own findings.

but that is not what Roman's means.

It means exactly what it says;

Romans 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory..............

Abound means to exist in large numbers and to grow further in size = "more abounded"; this then means if Paul has to lie for the church to "abound" and grow the Christian church in size, then he doesn't believe it to be sinful because he is of the opinion that he is paying service to god and doing gods work

There is no such thing as sinless.

That depends on whether on or not one is speaking in human terms or godly religious terms, doesn't it?

Let the dead bury their dead: He refers to all non Christians as dead.

I agree for the best part, only Jesus was a Jew and not a Christian and means that all those Jews that reject him and his teaching and that do not follow him are considered "dead" spiritually. Like me. If I were a Jew I would be considered "dead" in the eyes of Jesus because I do not follow him and do not believe him to be the son of any god in the genealogical sense of the word.

Stephen, we are all bad people.

No. my parents were good people. They would help out anyone and feed them before themselves etc. So you can believe that if you want. But not all people are bad.

God doesn't want Christians to lie. He sent many Christians to die, rather than lie.

God well may not want anyone to tell lies.

But well you clearly understand, I was talking about Paul who has admitted to telling lies and that he doesn't see it to be bad at all to lie if it increases -" MORE ABOUNDS" his church .

But let us stay with the thread.

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HELL BOUND MUSLIMS, TRY TO DEFEND ISLAM AGAINST WOMEN!

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@Wylted

and Yasmine is a valuable resource in that regard.

Try reading about the Muslim practice of Taqiya. Muslims are allowed to tell lies for many reasons including if it furthers the cause of Islam.

No different to the Christian St Paul who says it is ok to tell lies for the same reasons:

Romans 3:7 For if the truth of God hath more abounded through my lie unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?

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The golden rule

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@Tradesecret

Nevertheless I pointed out that Jesus’ take was unique

So now you have been made to realise that the sermon on the mount isn't quite as "unique" to Jesus as you first proclaimed it to be. You have now shifted the/YOUR meaning to that it was only Jesus' "take " that you were talking about.

Ok, how do you know what a mans "take " was during the time and place and society of the ancients from two thousand years ago?

Or are you know simply going to put words into the mouth of the Christ himself and the mouths of the bible authors?

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@Timid8967

So why should we believe anything you say?

I have never demanded anyone believe me. I personally don't give two fks either way? And I have admitted many times that I cannot prove many of my beliefs , theories and or ideas .

So you can take it or leave it is my motto, princess. I'm easy.

Now. Off you trot.

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@Timid8967

Dimtim said: "Let me be clear. Theists have the burden of proof. I cannot recall ever saying otherwise. And I don't recall thinking otherwise either. #61

Can you read? Theists have the burden of proof.

I can read and I agree with you again. I believe quite the same as you do.

Just like you I agree the bible is mess of confusing and contradictions. #186

Just like you I too believe the New Testament Jesus story to be mythical. #16

Just like you I too believe history shows how dangerous Christianity has been. #153

Just like you I don't believe a dead rotting and stink days old corpse came back to life again. #101

Just like you I don't believe in a person/god with supernatural powers #274

Just like you I agree that there is a weirdness to the christian beliefs even today#141

Just like you I agree that the story of Noah's flood simply doesn't stand up to the lightest of scrutiny #14

Just like you I agree that Theists have the burden of proof. . #61

You are entitled to believe what you will about me princess; BUT;

You won't find anything pro bible scripture from me , no matter how long you have to trawled my massive back catalogue anti scripture material or for material to plagiarise..

Off you trot now princess.

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You most certainly did neither

So then here you are. SEE below. It shows how YOU injected both characters into " confusion of languages" narrative. With only one of your chosen characters appearing in whole chapter and only for the sake of highlighting his line /"genealogy" and when he died, starting at verse 10 . And the other character - Ham - THAT YOU INJECTED into the chapter , doesn't appear at all. The chapter relates nothing about the " confusion of tongues" being anything to do with Ham or Shem as YOU will have us believe and have injected into the chapter;

This is what YOU have said and wanted us to accept:

The "confusion of tongues" served to separate the descendants of Shem and the descendants of Ham.#3 Athias

You are full of shite.

HERE READ IT FFS!

Genesis 11

The Tower of Babel

11 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech. 2 As people moved eastward,they found a plain in Shinar and settled there.

3 They said to each other, “Come, let’s make bricks and bake them thoroughly.” They used brick instead of stone, and tar for mortar. 4 Then they said, “Come, let us build ourselves a city, with a tower that reaches to the heavens, so that we may make a name for ourselves; otherwise we will be scattered over the face of the whole earth.”

5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower the people were building. 6 The Lord said, “If as one people speaking the same language they have begun to do this, then nothing they plan to do will be impossible for them. 7 Come, let us go down and confuse their language so they will not understand each other.”

8 So the Lord scattered them from there over all the earth, and they stopped building the city. 9 That is why it was called Babel—because there the Lord confused the language of the whole world. From there the Lord scattered them over the face of the whole earth.

10 This is the account of Shem’s family line.

Two years after the flood, when Shem was 100 years old, he became the father of Arphaxad. 11 And after he became the father of Arphaxad, Shem lived 500 years and had other sons and daughters.

12 When Arphaxad had lived 35 years, he became the father of Shelah. 13 And after he became the father of Shelah, Arphaxad lived 403 years and had other sons and daughters.

14 When Shelah had lived 30 years, he became the father of Eber. 15 And after he became the father of Eber, Shelah lived 403 years and had other sons and daughters.

16 When Eber had lived 34 years, he became the father of Peleg. 17 And after he became the father of Peleg, Eber lived 430 years and had other sons and daughters.

18 When Peleg had lived 30 years, he became the father of Reu. 19 And after he became the father of Reu, Peleg lived 209 years and had other sons and daughters.

20 When Reu had lived 32 years, he became the father of Serug. 21 And after he became the father of Serug, Reu lived 207 years and had other sons and daughters.

22 When Serug had lived 30 years, he became the father of Nahor. 23 And after he became the father of Nahor, Serug lived 200 years and had other sons and daughters.

24 When Nahor had lived 29 years, he became the father of Terah. 25 And after he became the father of Terah, Nahor lived 119 years and had other sons and daughters.

26 After Terah had lived 70 years, he became the father of Abram, Nahor and Haran.

Abram’s Family

27 This is the account of Terah’s family line.

Terah became the father of Abram, Nahor and Haran. And Haran became the father of Lot. 28 While his father Terah was still alive, Haran died in Ur of the Chaldeans, in the land of his birth. 29 Abram and Nahor both married. The name of Abram’s wife was Sarai, and the name of Nahor’s wife was Milkah; she was the daughter of Haran, the father of both Milkah and Iskah. 30 Now Sarai was childless because she was not able to conceive.

31 Terah took his son Abram, his grandson Lot son of Haran, and his daughter-in-law Sarai, the wife of his son Abram, and together they set out from Ur of the Chaldeans to go to Canaan. But when they came to Harran, they settled there.

32 Terah lived 205 years, and he died in Harran.

I never said that Shem and Ham were the "cause" for the confusion of languages.

Ok, So fkn what?! Why then even bother to inject them into a thread and a BIBLICAL chapter when neither has anything to do with my point concerning the confusion of languages and the fall of the Babel tower?

You didn't answer the question. I asked you - Why keep destroying only to then rebuild the same model?
You didn't ask a question until just now.

I did, stop fkn lying. I ask you directly after your first response to me HERE>>>>#5 Stephen

"Failure" is in the eye of your beer-holder.

Indeed, there are none so blind as those that see things that are not there.

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@Timid8967

bible doesnt mention transgender or homosexuality.

Is that why there are multiple threads on the religion forum calling out that which god says about homosexuality and the punishment he has ordered for such practices?

Leviticus 18:22 - Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Leviticus 20:13 - If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

bible doesnt mention transgender or homosexuality.

It helps if you read the thing before posting throwaway comments about that which you know nothing about.

Another wonderful example of where Stephen answers for the Brother.

NOPE!

You will see that is was an open comment posted by drlebronski directed and tagged to no one. But then you are dim aren't you tim. And the response was to drlebronski too.

Are you sure you don't share a password?

I am absolutely positive. If you think otherwise please highlight your concerns and the matter to moderation. I did, and I was banned!

And then of course, prove it.

Then again, your lack of input is dwindling, you are spent and have run out of steam and so you have now resorted to- in the image of he that you aspire to be likened to - Reverend Tradesecrete and are now simply plagiarising. Weak. so,so weak.

Get well soon to the both of you.

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@Timid8967

Please don't run away from my question Mr I am a theist. Please prove that god or gods exist. Or prove me right by running away and not answering the question. https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6355/post-links/275404

My, my. You have changed your tune , haven't you. this must be sheer desperation if all you have is to ask me to prove a god/s exist.

Have you forgotten your own stance as to where the burden of proof lays?

Here you go dimtim, Here you go princess.

Dimtim wrote: "Let me be clear. Theists have the burden of proof. I cannot recall ever saying otherwise. And I don't recall thinking otherwise either. #61

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@Athias

You cite text out of context.

AH. that good ol` favourite, " context". Quoting a FULL chapter from the bible is NOT quoting out of context by any means. The bible says what it says and not that which you want it to say. See this, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PK7P7uZFf5o

You take a single passage and you think that explains everything

NOPE. AGAIN. I quoted a full chapter and left link to the FULL chapter with the ONLY reference to only one of the TWO characters that you injected into the story and that you say was the cause for confusion of language.

While in that specific passage there's no mention of Ham,

That's correct there isn't. But you attempted to inject both Ham (and Shem) into the context, it didn't work. Yet accuse me of taking all of the chapter out of context. Your attempted slight of hand hasn't worked.

Mine. Because as god and the bible clearly show that he didn't get it right on three accessions. Why keep destroying and then rebuilding the same model. This is failure, BIG time.

Why should God or anyone else concern themselves with your measures?

You didn't answer the question. I asked you - Why keep destroying only to then rebuild the same model?

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@BrotherDThomas

.
Stephen,

What makes your initial post of Jesus' plans are always failing, is the biblical axiom that Jesus knew they were going to FAIL because He is omniscient!

"For whenever our heart condemns us, God is greater than our heart, and he knows everything." (1 John 3:20)

"Even before a word is on my tongue, behold, O Lord, you know it altogether." (Psalm 139:4)

"Great is our Lord, and abundant in power; his understanding is beyond measure." (Psalm 147:5)

As the ONLY True Christian upon this forum, that accepts ALL OF THE JUDEO-Christian Bible, I have learned to accept that Jesus, as the serial killer Yahweh God incarnate, knew beforehand that He was going to kill His creation in horrific drowning ways in the enactment of His Great Flood because of His godly omniscience, including innocent zygotes, fetus' and babies. :(

You preempt me yet again, Brother.

.

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@Tradesecret

@BrotherDThomas

Brother wrote: TRADESECRET, can you spell H-Y-P-O-C-R-I-T-E? Sure you can, Bible fool!

1. Your relentless response to Stephen in your post #31 in this thread does NOT follow your topic of this thread, and you say that I don’t follow the threads topic? therefore you turned into a HYPOCRITE!
https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6316-the-meaning-of-death?page=2&post_number=31

Indeed Brother, and as I have already mentioned. Tradesecret has now achieved his aspirations to be just like ethang5 and has reached the stage where he is now derailing his own threads once he has painted himself into a tight biblical and theological corner. They are so alike aren't they?

Do you remember this, Brother?

Tradesecret wrote: " "Ethang5 is a good friend of mine. I have know him for a significant period of time. And if you think we are like each other, that is a huge compliment for me. If I could be more like him, I would If I could be more like him, I would . #76

Well above#44 I have congratulated him on reaching his goal to be just like the vile man he has been aspiring to be like all his life and do hope he appreciates it.

YOUR CONTINUED RUNAWAY QUOTE FROM MY POSTS TO YOU: "Please start your own thread. If you want to ask a question relating to religion do so. Otherwise stay on topic. This is placing you on notice."

He has started doing as like with myself. He's running out of steam you see Brother, so he is now trawling posts for soundbites and comments that he is incapable think of for himself . Strange it is, Brother that a fully trained lawyer such as Tradesecrete claims to be would have to struggle to find the right words to fit the situation and so resorts to plagiarising others comments that have been initially directed at himself.

Tradesecret wrote: I am a lawyer. There you go. Now you know. I always counsel my clients that "no comment" is the only wise thing to do when being questioned by the police. #20

with all those feathers in his cap , one would think that he could come up with something original, but alas, he's just a failure at the end of the day. His "clients" must be in their prison cells wondering - ` why in hell did I ever employ that plagiarising idiot`?

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@FLRW

See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_atheists_in_science_and_technology

I didn't see my name on that list.

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@Athias

With Adam and Eve the failure is that they disobeyed god. But god created these pair. I didn’t. Yet I am told I will suffer in hell for three reasons.

(1) I apparently have inherited their sin.
You are not told that you will suffer in hell because you inherited their sin.

That is nice to hear. Thank you

So then his master plan for the creation of man was a complete failure.
Non sequitur. Your conclusions and premises are inconsistent.

Opinion.

Then mankind become so corrupt by his actions and multiple sinful ways that he sent a flood to wipe them from the face of the earth. Another fail.
Why did man become so corrupt "by [God's] actions"? Delineate these actions and how they led to man's corruption.

I didn't say gods actions. >> Then mankind become so corrupt by his actions .

He confuse human language after the destruction of Nimrod and the Tower of Babel incident so that they could not effectively communicate with each other. Another failure.
The "confusion of tongues" served to separate the descendants of Shem and the descendants of Ham.

I see. As in causing division. Why doesn't that surprise me. Nothings changed much has it. These gods just love setting one against another. It must keep them busy not to mention thoroughly amused. But then life is cheap to these gods, just read the sad story of Job, one of gods most faithful servants.https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Job%201&version=NIV

But the script clearly indicates that the reason given for the confused tongues was that they had attempted to build a tower to heaven.

Genesis 11 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.

2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar; and they dwelt there.

3 And they said one to another, Go to, let us make brick, and burn them thoroughly. And they had brick for stone, and slime had they for morter.

4 And they said, Go to, let us build us a city and a tower, whose top may reach unto heaven; and let us make us a name, lest we be scattered abroad upon the face of the whole earth.

5 And the Lord came down to see the city and the tower, which the children of men builded.

6 And the Lord said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do.

7 Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech.

8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from thence upon the face of all the earth: and they left off to build the city.

9 Therefore is the name of it called Babel; because the Lord did there confound the language of all the earth: and from thence did the Lord scatter them abroad upon the face of all the earth.

NOPE! I see nothing there as indicating the reason you have given for the confusion of language. No Shem, no Ham even mentioned having anything to do with the confusion of languages . Although Shem is mentioned twice further in the chapter but only for the fact of his age and his generations.

Genesis 11: 10 These are the generations of Shem: Shem was an hundred years old, and begat Arphaxad two years after the flood:

11 And Shem lived after he begat Arphaxad five hundred years, and begat sons and daughters......

and Ham not at all.

Matthew 13: 40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mathew 13 comes well after these previous disasters sent onto the shoulders of mankind by god, and it appears that god still hadn't corrected a single one of his own previous errors, either!?

Why so many failures if god is said, and seen to be by millions, to be perfect? How many goes does he have to have before getting it right, before we are sent to the flames to face much gnashing of teeth in perpetuity?

Failure by whose measures? His or yours?

Mine. Because as god and the bible clearly show that he didn't get it right on three accessions. Why keep destroying and then rebuilding the same model. This is failure, BIG time.

"Failure" is in the eye of your beer-holder.

And you, it appears are seeing and "beholding" things that are not even written there.

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@drlebronski

bible doesnt mention transgender or homosexuality.

Is that why there are multiple threads on the religion forum calling out that which god says about homosexuality and the punishment he has ordered for such practices?

Leviticus 18:22 - Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination.

Leviticus 20:13 - If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them.

bible doesnt mention transgender or homosexuality.

It helps if you read the thing before posting throwaway comments about that which you know nothing about.

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With Adam and Eve the failure is that they disobeyed god. But god created these pair. I didn’t. Yet I am told I will suffer in hell for three reasons.

(1) I apparently have inherited their sin.

(2) I don’t believe Jesus was god;

(3)It is doubtful that even Jesus believed himself to be a god either? So then his master plan for the creation of man was a complete failure.

Then mankind become so corrupt by his actions and multiple sinful ways that he sent a flood to wipe them from the face of the earth. Another fail.

He confuse human language after the destruction of Nimrod and the Tower of Babel incident so that they could not effectively communicate with each other. Another failure.

Matthew 13: 40 “As the weeds are pulled up and burned in the fire, so it will be at the end of the age. 41 The Son of Man will send out his angels, and they will weed out of his kingdom everything that causes sin and all who do evil. 42 They will throw them into the blazing furnace, where there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.

Mathew 13 comes well after these previous disasters sent onto the shoulders of mankind by god, and it appears that god still hadn't corrected a single one of his own previous errors, either!?

Why so many failures if god is said, and seen to be by millions, to be perfect? How many goes does he have to have before getting it right, before we are sent to the flames to face much gnashing of teeth in perpetuity?

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@Tradesecret

My email source has plenty of times when you played the victim.

You are the biggest hypocrite on this site. Here is a clue “first take the Planck out of your own eye and then you will see clearly to take the splinter out their eye”.

As for me I admit I said the words to you. As I recall I also conceded they were inappropriate. You on the other hand are proud of your gutter language. You don’t resile from any of the filth that you wrote. in fact you believe it was all quite appropriate.

You are running out of steam Reverend.

And are now doing exactly what your mentor ethang - the vile man that you aspire to be like - often used to do. He would derail even his own threads too, when on the back foot and after painting himself into a biblical or theological corner.

Remember this Reverend>.

Tradesecret wrote: " "Ethang5 is a good friend of mine. I have know him for a significant period of time. And if you think we are like each other, that is a huge compliment for me. If I could be more like him, I would If I could be more like him, I would . #76

Well congratulations Pastor Tradesecret, you have achieved your goal you have become - not like - but identical to the vile and disgusting racist and misogynistic man that you have aspired to be like all these years.

I say let the readers decide.

I don't think they are too interested, myself, Reverend.

Get well soon.

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@Tradesecret

stephen lol do you just say stuff and then hope no one ever reads what you write?

That is a very backward thing to write , Reverend.

I am not as silly as you to post something I wouldn't want anyone to read, Reverend. Or do I post something that I regret I had posted. Unlike yourself , that has continually has posted things that you wish you hadn't ever posted and that have now all come back to bite you in the arse.

You are running out of steam , Reverend. Maybe another sabbatical is in order.

Get well soon Reverend.

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@Tradesecret

@BrotherDThomas

I didn’t trawl over your words.One of your fans sent me an email.

Of course you did silly. And according to you know one listens to me anyway, so I can never see your problem.

And you, just like dimtim - he that is so proud and "happy and pleased to be mistaken" for you #243- are both of the belief that you will counter anything I have said with my own words. Its not working, Reverend. I stand by almost every word that I have said past and present on this forum. And I do apologise and take responsibility for my own mistakes and actions if and when I make them..

Fact is Stephen, no one has clean hands, least of all you.

I agree, but it was you - a man of the cloth Pastor- that hasn't heeded the words of your god and not me, I am not religious in the slightest. But then again , your attitude to words are that >>> "Words are words. And that is all they are". #45 Tradesecret funny then how you take offence when anyone criticises you, isn't it, Reverend, while you use foul and disgusting language towards others.

You that preaches and teaches at Universities about THE BIBLE>>.

" No, I don't charge students, I charge universities when they request me to lecture to them". #20.

You have thrown stones in glass houses and against the will of your god while using foul and abusive language in retaliation towards another, just like the man you tell us you aspire to be like:

Tradesecret wrote: " "Ethang5 is a good friend of mine. I have know him for a significant period of time. And if you think we are like each other, that is a huge compliment for me. If I could be more like him, I would If I could be more like him, I would . #76

Well congratulations Pastor Tradesecret, you have achieved your goal with that hypocritical post aimed at the Brother along with the foul and abusive language towards others, and you have become - not like - but identical to the vile and disgusting racist and misogynistic man that you have aspired to be like all these years.

Stop playing the victim.

I have never complained about being victimised, Reverend. That will be you and often too, you hypocrite. Would you like reminding?

Oh yes and you quoting verses at me out of context to try and silence ....

I don't think so. Those verses show you to be the hypocritical man of the cloth that you are. Look>>

Tradesecrete to the Brother wrote:
But I am getting bored with your inability to understand basic curtesy.

Do you mean this kind of intolerant and abusive curtesy, Reverend

Tradesecrete wrote: Stupid man. Dumb as fuck. Are you really this thick?Just continue to repeat your ignorance. #161
Obviously you are an idiot. #186

Interesting that you have created a thread dedicated to the gospel of Matthew 7 isn't it, Reverend?#1 Tradesecret

Did you actaully read Matthew 7 for yourself?

Here you go, Reverend.

Matthew 7:3-5

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite!, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

I Peter3:9

"Do not repay evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary, bless, for to this you were called, that you may obtain a blessing".

When you return to a reasonable position...

My position is just fine from where I am sitting , thank you, Reverend hypocrite!.

Get well soon Reverend.

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@Tradesecret

@BrotherDThomas

Whew, one of your better "put the fool in their rightful place" posts, praise Jesus for your talents in this respect! :)

And have you noticed how Timdim-esque Tradesecret's post are becoming, Brother?

They must have had an interesting time both combing my old threads for retaliatory comments from my large library of threads. Lets hope they both learn something for their concerted efforts.

Have a look see, Brother!

#8

Timid8967

#13

Timid8967

And from the Reverend;

#31

Tradesecret

Well, Dimtim8967 does say often that after reading the Reverend Tradesecrets posts, that he does imply to aspire to be like him, doesn't he, Brother?

I don't think he has quite got to that stupidity lever quite yet:

#243 Timid8967 Wrote: "after reading some of Tradesecret's posts - which are on balance, ok, I would be happy, no pleased to be mistaken for him or her".

And, in turn the Reverend Tradesecret aspires to be like ethang:

Tradesecret wrote: And if you think we are like each other, that is a huge compliment for me. If I could be more like him, I would" . #76

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@Tradesecret

@BrotherDThomas

After all if these are the words that come out of your mouth.

What about them? I will return in kind. And I admit to name calling. Such as stupid etc. But for a man of the cloth to talk of others peoples lack of "common curtesy", while being himself extremely discourteous, well Reverend, what can I say? and lest we forget your own thread telling us;

"Words are words. And that is all they are". #45 Tradesecret .

The Brother on the other hand has never written such vile and disgusting words on this forum as you do, and have done.

This is you calling out someone for their lack of - as you put it - "common curtesy".

Tradesecrete wrote: Stupid man. Dumb as fuck. Are you really this thick?Just continue to repeat your ignorance. #161
Obviously you are an idiot. #186

But you won't here me complaining about your own lack of "common curtsy", I can take it , Reverend. But your hypocritical self, it seem , cannot.

what right do you have to lecture anyone else?

I was not lecturing you. But I think you'll find that your god is. Or did you not ever read the bible? Well of course you haven't, have you Reverend?

Here you go, Reverend. Matthew 7:3-5

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite!, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

And there are a few other problems with whole of your post above Reverend.

I am not religious . And I also will call people as I have been called, without complaint. YOU on the other hand, Reverend, are supposed to "turn the other cheek".Matthew 5:38-44

And there is this very apt verse;

"Do not repay evil for evil or reviling for reviling, but on the contrary, bless, for to this you were called, that you may obtain a blessing". I Peter3:9

I didn't read of you "blessing the Brother", Reverend. Why is that?

And the references I have direct at ethang5 - the same man that you tell us all that you aspire to be like - HERE>>>#76 - and that you have highlighted above, I will stand by until the day I die. He is vile and he is disgusting. Have you not read his sick and vile racist and sexists posts highlighted in a link by another poster here>https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/6201-ethang5

Yes , Reverend, I stand by what I have said in every single one of those links and particularly what I have said about that vile disgusting individual about whom you say " If I could be more like him, I would" . #76

Stick and stones. Stones and glass houses . Sawdust or planks, call it what you will but THE BIBLE and your god is the one calling you a "hypocrite"! Reverend. Matthew7:5

I don't care what you say. and let us not forget your often spouted mantra _ "Words are words. And that is all they are". #45 Tradesecret .

Get well soon , Reverend.

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@Tradesecret

@BrotherDThomas

Tradesecrete wrote: But I am getting bored with your inability to understand basic curtesy.

Do you mean this kind of intolerant and abusive curtesy, Reverend

Tradesecrete wrote: Stupid man. Dumb as fuck. Are you really this thick?Just continue to repeat your ignorance. #161
Obviously you are an idiot. #186

Interesting that you have created a thread dedicated to the gospel of Matthew 7 isn't it, Reverend?#1 Tradesecret

Did you actaully read Matthew 7 for yourself?

Here you go, Reverend. Matthew 7:3-5

3 “Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother’s eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 4 How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me take the speck out of your eye,’ when all the time there is a plank in your own eye? 5 You hypocrite!, first take the plank out of your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother’s eye.

Get well soon Reverend.

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@BrotherDThomas

Therefore, we can only hope that poor TRADESECRET can learn from the aforementioned equally biblical fools, and take a vacation from this forum AGAIN! lol

Sorry to have to correct you, Brother, but the Reverend Pastor and Chaplain #20 had taken sick leave, not a vacation.

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