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@Mopac
Go to an Orthodox Church......................................
This doesn't explain how an individual decides to be a Christian.
Are you in your new monk home now?
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@Tradesecret
Just because Jesus calls Peter to follow him on two or more separate occasions is not inconsistent.
Just happening on "Peter " real name Simon on a beach is not the same as having "Peter" real name Simon introduced to you by disciples of John the Baptist, in the wilderness.
None of those stories are inconsistent with each other.
Of course they are , stop being ridiculous. If that is all you have then you have no further reason to post on this thread , have you Reverend
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@Tradesecret
The Bible is anti-racist.
No Ammonite or Moabite or any of their descendants may enter the assembly of the lord, not even in the tenth generation (Deuteronomy 23:3).
And god also forbids intermarriage with these foreign tribes (Deut. 7:3; Ezra 9:2, 10:10; Nehemiah 13).
Then there is the Egyptians and Canaanites
He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."Matthew 15:24
"These twelve Jesus sent out with the following instructions: “Do not go among the Gentiles or enter any town of the Samaritans. Go rather to the lost sheep of Israel.” (Matthew 10:5–6).
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@ethang5
I wonder if God feels guilty for not giving Stephen an explanation?
I wonder what it is god feels about you and your vile , disgusting and apathetic comments concerning the slaughter of millions of his own flock and their grieving families, at this very special time of the year for Christianity?
>>>>>>>>>#154
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@Tradesecret
Merry Christmas Stephen.
Same to you, sincerely, Chaplain
Say a prayer for all of the families of those fallen soldiers that will never again be sharing Christmas with a lost mother or father, brother or sister who's lives, among other "sheep", were taken by jihadists . I ask this because you do tell us that:
"Iam also a chaplain to our Countries Defence forces, a position Icould not have without proper qualifications". #20
Here's a list of those fallen
Will you be representing any of those Australian soldiers who are being accused of war crimes, Reverend?
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None of those stories are inconsistent with each other.
Of course they are , stop being ridiculous. If that is all you have then you have no further reason to post on this thread , have you Reverend.
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@oromagi
Its not a name change- it is an epithet. Petr just means "rock."
LOOK AT THE LAST LINE OF POST ONE it reads : Three entirely different accounts as to how Jesus met and recruited his "rock" Simon also called Peter. <<<<< see that?
Of course it was a name change. And Pertra/does mean rock as in turned to stone being PETRAFIDE. But Simon to Peter he was from that time on and addressed as Peter throughout the rest of the scripture, right up until this day. As was Didymus was better known as Thomas. As was Jacob to Israel as was Abram to Abraham . As was Jacob to Israel . This list of name changes is long. Here have a read and educate yourself:
Abram to Abraham
Solomon to Jedediah
Azariah to Abednego
Barnabas To Joseph
Naomi to Mara
Barsabbas to Judas
Sarai to Sarah
Bartholomew to Nathanael
Esther to Hadassah
Daniel to Belteshazzar
Ben-Oni to Benjamin
Dorcas To Tabitha
Would you like to me to keep going!?
I can accept that "rock" was more a ` nick name' than a given name as scholars have been suggesting as such for decades. And given those times it could well have been a code name such as Boanerges to James and John AKA "sons of thunder" thunder being Zebedee..
My point is that we are never or rarely given the reasons for these name changes. And there are almost 70 in the scriptures that I can remember.
Now can you take on the more difficult part of this threads anomaly and explain away the there contradicting accounts of how Jesus actually recruited Simon aka Peter aka "rock".
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@Tradesecret
Where did sin come from?answered before. But you can go and find it. I don't have a burning desire to so.I just knew that you would resort to outright lying eventually? You are coming across far too much like ethang5 , by the second. he's not sharing your password is he. That is very naughty , don't you know?I have said on numerous occasions that sin came into this world when Adam and Eve fell to the temptations of Satan.
This does not explain where sin came from. You simply cannot say so without implicating god as its originator, can you? In over 100 biblical verses, scriptures clearly tell us that "god created everything". Would you like a few examples, Reverend?
then suggest that Ethang and I are sharing passwords, well - you are desperate aren't you? Ethang5 is a good friend of mine. I have know him for a significant period of time. And if you think we are like each other, that is a huge compliment for me.If I could be more like him, I would.
You are JUST LIKE HIM, Reverend, so congratulations. And I believe the friendship to be very tight. So tight in fact I am convinced even more that you are sharing a password. I can't prove it of course.
perhaps you might wake up and realise that Jesus came to save sinners like you
But you don't know that, and you have said so many times just recently. You & ethang5 just cannot get your script together can you. And you wouldn't have a clue if I had sinned or not.
I pray that even your eyes might be opened to the truth.
Yes praying, gets you far doesn't it Reverend. You pray that the lords "will be done" but don't even know what the will to be done even is.
" they will be done on earth as it is in heaven"
You don't even know how it is done in heaven to be enable it to be done on earth.
I bid you a merry Christmas Stephen
Just another day to me at my age , Reverend. But I sincerely do hope it goes well for you. And baring a death & sickness in the family, I would be more than pleased to hear ethang5 had the worst possible Christmas he could ever possibly have.
Ethang5 is a good friend of mine. I have know him for a significant period of time. And if you think we are like each other, that is a huge compliment for me.If I could be more like him, I would.
Ethang5, your "great friend that you aspire to be even more like" is a man the believes anyone murdered by jihadists are simply "sheep and solders", didn't you know? >>> for context see >>>
" Why would any sort of jihadist keep me awake? Most of the world is not as run over with jihadists as England is. Only sheep or soldiers get killed by jihadists". #154.
I had to remind him that millions of these "sheep" murdered by Jihadists are in fact his Christian brothers and sisters. So I can only hope that your aspirations - as a serving Pastor & Chaplin - do not stoop to such vile low depths as those of your " very good and faithful friend that you " aspire to me more like"?
Consider that when you are shoveling down your Christmas dinner, Reverend!
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Make disciples of all the nations", from (Matthew 28:19)
What do you think that means or even proves, Elmer?
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@ethang5
How do you make that out. ?
That last post 321 days ago (10 Months, 2 Weeks, 2 Days, 14 Hours, 28 Minutes and 40 Seconds ago) and has no addressee.
And you still cannot square this biblical anomaly. You are just so fkn hopeless at everything you attempt aren't you.
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@Tradesecret
answered before. But you can go and find it. I don't have a burning desire to so.
I just knew that you would resort to outright lying eventually? You are coming across far too much like ethang5 , by the second. he's not sharing your password is he. That is very naughty , don't you know?
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They just cannot make up their minds, can they? How did Jesus recruit the fisherman called Simon and why did he feel the need to change his name?
Matthew 4:18-20 & Mark 1:16-18
18 As Jesus was walking beside the Sea of Galilee he saw two brothers, Simon called Peter and his brother Andrew. They were casting a net into the lake, for they were fishermen. 19 “Come, follow me,” Jesus said, “and I will send you out to fish for people.” 20 At once they left their nets and followed him.
Then!
Luke 5:2-11
2 He saw at the water’s edge two boats, left there by the fishermen, who were washing their nets. 3 He got into one of the boats, the one belonging to Simon, and asked him to put out a little from shore. Then he sat down and taught the people from the boat.
4 When he had finished speaking, he said to Simon, “Put out into deep water, and let down the nets for a catch.”
5 Simon answered, “Master, we’ve worked hard all night and haven’t caught anything. But because you say so, I will let down the nets.”
6 When they had done so, they caught such a large number of fish that their nets began to break. 7 So they signaled their partners in the other boat to come and help them, and they came and filled both boats so full that they began to sink.
8 When Simon Peter saw this, he fell at Jesus’ knees and said, “Go away from me, Lord; I am a sinful man!” 9 For he and all his companions were astonished at the catch of fish they had taken, 10 and so were James and John, the sons of Zebedee, Simon’s partners.
Then Jesus said to Simon, “Don’t be afraid; from now on you will fish for people.” 11 So they pulled their boats up on shore, left everything and followed him.
AND THEN!
John 1:35-42
35 The next day John [the Baptist] was there again with two of his disciples. 36 When he saw Jesus passing by, he said, “Look, the Lamb of God!”
37 When the two disciples heard him say this, they followed Jesus. 38 Turning around, Jesus saw them following and asked, “What do you want?”
They said, “Rabbi” (which means “Teacher”), “where are you staying?”
39 “Come,” he replied, “and you will see.”
So they went and saw where he was staying, and they spent that day with him. It was about four in the afternoon.
40 Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother, was one of the two who heard what John had said and who had followed Jesus. 41 The first thing Andrew did was to find his brother Simon and tell him, “We have found the Messiah” (that is, the Christ). 42 And he brought him to Jesus.
Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas” (which, when translated, is Peter).
Jesus looked at him and said, “You are Simon son of John. You will be called Cephas” (which, when translated, is Peter).
Three entirely different accounts as to how Jesus met and recruited his "rock" Simon also called Peter.
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@Tradesecret
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@zedvictor4
I sometimes wonder.... If there is a heaven and one dies with a demented mind.... Then will one have a demented mind in heaven.
You have wasted your time time Vic,lad.
I asked about heaven sometime ago and I you found that not even Christians have a clue about what goes on in heaven or where heaven is no more than they do about "gods will" that need to be done or how they even became christian in the first place.
The ones that give it a shot ended up contradicting one another as to if or not it was a actual place and what actually goes on there, not to mention who qualifies for one of those "many mansions".
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@FLRW
Televangelist Kenneth Copeland, 83, who has an estimated net worth of $760million
Chicken feed.
Jorge Mario Bergoglio worth $10 billion to $15 billion. Of this wealth, stockholdings alone run to $1.6 billion.
He has risen to notoriety in 2020 after a string of bizarre claims
Don't get me started.
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@Utanity
So what I am saying is that these people dont think about God they just use God to suck the people in like the dyson
There are one or two here that could give Elmer Gantry a run for his swindled money. There are even one or two here that are even too thick to remember who's side they are on and seem pretty content with throwing even their own sheep to the slaughter in simple desperation for a response or answer.
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@Tradesecret
Tradesecret wrote: I also said as is revealed in the Bible. One example is murder. You shall not murder. If a human murders another human that is sinning.So murder is a sin and a breach of gods law. OK . It also happens to be a criminal offence in mans law, too.Then you say :Tradesecret wrote: Sin is not something humans do to each other. That is an offence.And an offence of murder committed by man is also a crime against god and man , is it not?So?
So answer the question.
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@ethang5
Why would any sort of jihadist keep me awake? Most of the world is not as run over with jihadists as England is. Only sheep or soldiers get killed by jihadists.You really are disgustingly fkn ignorant at times aren't you. You will say just about anything for wont of a reply and as long as it serves you as a response. You are absolutely disgusting and vile!!!Those "sheep" you mention also happen to be hundreds of thousands of Christians that are being murdered all over the fkn globe by jihadists.You was bragging not long ago how Christianity was expanding in African and the east, yet here you are mocking & deriding - if not celebrating - the deaths of hundreds of thousands of gods Christian "sheep". I think you are ill, I really do.You really are disgustingly fkn ignorant at times aren't you. You will say just about anything as long as it serves you as a response.The perpetually outraged SJW is outraged again.
Don't try and wave this away as insignificant in relation to that vile and disgusting, thoughtless comment.
You are damn right I am "outraged", you sick little puppy! Anyone with the least of morals, and least of empathy would be outraged by such a vile and disgusting statement. And YOU call yourself a fkn Christian!????? You have showdown nothing but ignorance of your own faith and scriptures ever since I came across you.
Are you saying that these poor CHRISTIAN souls weren't Jesus ' sheep!??? Are you saying that "the lord" is NOT their Shepherd!!!?? You're an absolute FKN disgrace to your god and your religion!!!!
Islamic State in Nigeria 'beheads Christian hostages' "One captive in the middle is shot dead while the other 10 are pushed to the ground and beheaded."
Violence against Christians on the rise in Africa. "Bloodbath in the Church"
"Children have been “slaughtered”" and people burnt to death in violent clashes between Muslim cattle herders and Christian farmers in Nigeria according to Amnesty International
Nigeria Is A Killing Field Of Defenseless Christians "A Nigerian Christian describes the Fulani jihadist attack that destroyed his village, Ninka, Kaduna State and killed many Christian villagers
The Lord is my shepherd;
Then he led out his people like sheep.
And guided them in the wilderness like a flock.
But we your people, the sheep of your pasture,
“For thus says the Lord God: Behold, I, I myself will search for my sheep and will seek them out.
The Reverend should be thankful that you didn't write this one up to him. You have dropped him in it quite a lot lately.
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@ethang5
Only sheep or soldiers get killed by jihadists.
You're an absolute FKN disgrace!!!!
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@ethang5
Only sheep or soldiers get killed by jihadists.
You really are disgustingly fkn ignorant at times aren't you. You will say just about anything for wont of a reply and as long as it serves you as a response. You are absolutely disgusting and vile!!!
Those "sheep" you mention also happen to be hundreds of thousands of Christians that are being murdered all over the fkn globe by jihadists.
You was bragging not long ago how Christianity was expanding in African and the east, yet here you are mocking & deriding - if not celebrating - the deaths of hundreds of thousands of gods Christian "sheep". I think you are ill, I really do.
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@ethang5
The genius killed his own thread by being a jerk to responders.
Nope. All Christians here have failed miserably to even give us a clue to what gods plan is yet bang on about it constantly.
You also mentioned :
being a jerk
Well let me tell you, all these non responses dovetail nicely with other threads of mine where Christians have also failed miserably to explain how they even became Christians!!!! Such as you,; you have completely stayed silent on the matter haven't you. And along with how Christians, after thousands of years, talking repeatedly at all hours of every day about "gods will", haven't got a fkn clue as to what the will of gods actually is.
I have said many times here. I am more than happy when CHRISTIANS fail to answer or even respond to my questions or add to my threads. You do me a great service and yourself and your god a great disservice, "jerk"
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@ethang5
But I am wondering, how many people can a mental patient be obsessed with at one time?
I don't know. Your the one arguing with and deriding every member on every sub-forum that you post on here that doesn't agree with you.
I'm just waiting for you to spam
Forcing me to remind you of your own misdemeanors and out right abuse and disregard for forum rules when you single out members for what you consider to be a breach of the forum rules, is not spamming.
Your own record here for abuse and total disregard of the rules (including "repeated a pattern" sexual harassment#17) is legendary.
Yet you seem oblivious to your own hypocrisy and double standards.
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@ethang5
Why are atheists always quoting the bible?
To correct the lies and double standards that the likes of you often use in vain attempts to defend it. Not to mention your hypocrisy See example [A] below.
I must admit, that I quite enjoy at times, reading the Christian attempts at justifying for instance, the murder of Jobs 10 children .
Do they ever read anything else?
I do. The more one reads the more one understands that Christianity for instance, is probably one of the greatest cons in the history of man and its legal.
"It has served us well, this myth of Christ" - Pope Leo X
[A] Or did you miss this entirely>>
Thread Count
Another thread created in the religion forum that has absolutely nothing to do with religion.
46 threads you have created ethang5. Of which 11 are posted to the religion forum of which only 4 contain religious content or are actually to do religion. .
Of your 4,936 posts/comments roughly four-fifths are posted in the religion forum and are all to do with argument and agitating not to mention a "pattern" of sexual harassment (masturbating over another forum member, is one example) for which you were given a deserved lengthy ban. #17
"Judge not, that ye be judged. For with what judgment, ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again". Matthew 7:1-2
"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considers not the beam that is in thine own eye". Matthew 7:3
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@Tradesecret
Christianity has not always existed.
That's right, Reverend. There wasn't a Christian in sight in Jesus time. Jesus had a religious ideology of his own (that he and others believed he was head of) and he would have been appalled that a completely alien religious ideology had sprang up in his name.
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@Tradesecret
I also said as is revealed in the Bible. One example is murder. You shall not murder. If a human murders another human that is sinning.
So murder is a sin and a breach of gods law. OK . It also happens to be a criminal offence in mans law, too.
Then you say :
Sin is not something humans do to each other. That is an offence.
And an offence of murder committed by man is also a crime against god and man , is it not?
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@zedvictor4
And that's anther way of putting it.It's a pity that no one knows the perfect way to put it.As the Caddie said to the Golfer.
As the Pastor said to the whore.
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@ethang5
It passed you by already.
Your god-awful hypocrisy and double standards are never missed by me. see post above #10
And while you are oblivious to the fact of your throwing stones in glass houses you totally ignore your own scriptures and your gods command.
Or did you miss this entirely>>
Thread Count
Another thread created in the religion forum that has absolutely nothing to do with religion.
46 threads you have created ethang5. Of which 11 are posted to the religion forum of which only 4 contain religious content or are actually to do religion. .
Of your 4,936 posts/comments roughly four-fifths are posted in the religion forum and are all to do with argument and agitating not to mention a "pattern" of sexual harassment (masturbating over another forum member, is one example) for which you were given a deserved lengthy ban. #17
"Judge not, that ye be judged. For with what judgment, ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again". Matthew 7:1-2
"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considers not the beam that is in thine own eye". Matthew 7:3
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@Tradesecret
1. God's law as revealed in the Bible.
Example of breaking gods law
2. Sin is any want of conformity unto, or transgression of, the law of God.
Example of a transgression of the law of god.
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@ethang5
Thread CountAnother thread created in the religion forum that has absolutely nothing to do with religion.46 threads you have created ethang5. Of which 11 are posted to the religion forum of which only 4 contain religious content or are actually to do religion. .Of your 4,936 posts/comments roughly four-fifths are posted in the religion forum and are all to do with argument and agitating not to mention a "pattern" of sexual harassment (masturbating over another forum member, is one example) for which you were given a deserved lengthy ban. #17"Judge not, that ye be judged. For with what judgment, ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again".Matthew 7:1-2"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considers not the beam that is in thine own eye". Matthew 7:3The atheist again quotes the bible as the touchstone of morality. Go figure.Indeed your own scriptures point to and highlight your own dirty hypocrisy. You should "go figure" Or do you need those relevant verses explaining and put into context for you?Yet its the worst book ever written!
The OT is a vile book I'll grant you that.
At those times the bible is the height of morality
Yes. It shows its own hypocrisy but more so your own.
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@Tradesecret
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@ethang5
Thread CountAnother thread created in the religion forum that has absolutely nothing to do with religion.46 threads you have created ethang5. Of which 11 are posted to the religion forum of which only 4 contain religious content or are actually to do religion. .Of your 4,936 posts/comments roughly four-fifths are posted in the religion forum and are all to do with argument and agitating not to mention a "pattern" of sexual harassment (masturbating over another forum member, is one example) for which you were given a deserved lengthy ban. #17"Judge not, that ye be judged. For with what judgment, ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again".Matthew 7:1-2"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considers not the beam that is in thine own eye". Matthew 7:3The atheist again quotes the bible as the touchstone of morality. Go figure.
Indeed your own scriptures point to and highlight your own dirty hypocrisy. You should "go figure" Or do you need those relevant verses explaining and put into context for you?
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@ethang5
Thread Count
Another thread created in the religion forum that has absolutely nothing to do with religion.
46 threads you have created ethang5. Of which 11 are posted to the religion forum of which only 4 contain religious content or are actually to do religion. .
Of your 4,936 posts/comments roughly four-fifths are posted in the religion forum and are all to do with argument and agitating not to mention a "pattern" of sexual harassment (masturbating over another forum member, is one example) for which you were given a deserved lengthy ban. #17
"Judge not, that ye be judged. For with what judgment, ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again". Matthew 7:1-2
"And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considers not the beam that is in thine own eye". Matthew 7:3
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@Tradesecret
Seriously, ask yourself, what kind of god would waste his maiden "miracle" on making sure the " wedding" guests got drunk?I take the view.
And I don't.
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@Reece101
How does the old saying go? God sacrificed himself to himself to save us from himself.Seems like God has a psychological complex or it’s just bronze/Iron age peasants projecting onto a god figure.
I was trying to avoid that obvious glaring trait, Reece 101. A trait that is never and has never quite been explained , has it. And certainly won't be without invoking the supernatural.
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@Castin
I am not someone who believes in scripture.
Well this is where many here misunderstand me, and do so purposely and out of sheer bloody-mindedness for argument,sake. I do believe these scriptures I just do not accept them in the state that they have come down to us. I am not religious but believe that Jesus existed. I also believe that he would have been appalled that a whole new religious ideology had sprang up in his name. I believe that he was king come to regain a throne that he (as did others) believed was rightfully his.
The Christian invention of literal "miracles" that Jesus was said to have performed can all be explained. Water into wine for instance was an initiation ceremony. Think ` silk purse from a sows ear` in todays language.
Seriously, ask yourself, what kind of god would waste his maiden "miracle" on making sure the " wedding" guests got drunk? Who was Jesus and his mother to all of a sudden take over catering arrangements at a "wedding" that wasn't even his own(?) and when there was a perfectly good and capable steward(master of ceremonies) on hand to send out for more refreshments? No this was no miracle. It was an initiation ceremony en masse. As was the feeding of the 4-5 thousand.
If this was indeed miracle ,why would Jesus rebuke his mother and tell her "his time had not yet come" but then perform it anyway? Why didn't the steward or anyone else even comment on this "miracle " .
Why cure just a few leapers when this god man could have eradicated all of leprosy from the face of the earth? Because this too was an initiation to a higher degree in the Jesus movement. As was making the "blind" see.
I ask questions that Christians don`t , won't or cannot think to ask for themselves and questions that they certainly don`t like to be confronted with.
John the baptist: "the greatest prophet that ever lived" according to Jesus himself and the forerunner paving the way for Jesus, for reasons known only to himself suddenly believed that Jesus was supposed to be baptising him!?? - after all those years apparently doing nothing but preaching about "the one to come" And when that little bit of confusion was sorted and after John heard the voice of god himself saying this "is my son", John is arrested and has serious doubt as to who Jesus is and sends his own disciples to ask Jesus if he was the one prophesised about! "Are you the one to come after me or shall we wait for another?" seriously !!! didn't he know?? If John the greatest prophet that ever lived had his doubts, then what chance did Jew public and the lost sheep of Israel have of believing it?
Why didn't Jesus raise John "the greatest prophet" from the dead as he did his mere friend Lazarus? Why didn't Jesus shed a single tear on hearing about John's death as he did for his friend Lazarus?
If my probing questions, my criticizing and scrutinizing of these scriptures happen to offend or upset Christians , I am not sorry. They should be able to defend them with proof and logic and not by inserting words into the text that are not there and by putting words into the mouths of the biblical authors and characters in poor attempts to explain away these biblical anomalies.
Christian always turn nasty and show their true colours when confronted with these types of questions.
I can also see that Christians view Jesus's sacrifice as a miracle
And I see how they have been lied to and have been lying to themselves for millennia.
I have found that the OT is more truthful and honest than the New. I take the Old Testament as an history of one single bloodline.. When it is scrutinized we can see that this "Lord" had only the interests and concerns of one single family and one single bloodline in mind.
I answered your question here, by the way >>#42
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@ethang5
But if I ever actually believed someone was crucified for something I had personally done wrong, I don't think I could live with it.
Indeed. A great big massive guilt trip that you and the rest of mankind , in return, have to spend the rest of eternity on this earth on your knees in subservience. For something that you didn't cause, do or take part in. .
And remember, it was all gods plan all along , there wasn't even any small print read when this eternal guilty conscience was foisted on you. And as I said above - I have to also agree that every time I decline this responsibility by something I may say or action I take, that I intensify the agony of it all.
I ever actually believed
Then its just as well you don't or are at least questioning it. And remember this, not a single one of his disciples were present when Jesus is said to have died. Not a single one "witnessed" him die. He said nothing about taking away the sins of the world while on the cross and he even questioned challenged his "fathers" betrayal. , " saying , Eli, lema sabachthani?
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@Castin
The Bible says a murderer must be put to death. They don't get a "kill a goat"
Take it as you will, but it was slight sarcasm. What does it say about the rapist murderer that repents!!!??
A man was tortured and killed for the sins of others wasn't he? He paid with blood didn't he , if the scriptures are to be believed? And now there are many murdering rapists in his heavenly paradise. If you believe these scriptures as they have come down to us?
Why is that Christians are too stupid to even recognise, for themselves, the further implications. Weather I accepted this "offer" or not, I also have to accept that I am responsible for the every single vicious lash of the brutal flogging, and the mocking and every strike of every nail being driven home into the flesh of another human being during the crucifixion. In which I had absolutely nothing to do with, and no say. I have to also agree that every time I decline this responsibility by something I may say or action I take, that I intensify the agony of it all.
I am also required to believe that all of this pain, suffering, torture and agony was absolutely necessary in order to compensate for some earlier sin/crime in which I also played no part in.- the sin of Adam. I could expand further but I don't think that I have to . Do you not see how this is all beginning to come across?
Stephen seemed to be suggesting that the Bible teaches we alone are responsible for our actions to the extent that sin can't be transferred.
I am suggesting the bible (certainly the OT) appears to suggest that we are responsible for our crimes /sins/. But then the NT contradict this, by saying someone else has taken the burden and responsibility and paid for it with a vile tortuous blood sacrifice . I am also saying that I didn't ask anyone to die for me and wouldn't expect them to.
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@Castin
And in the case where a person must choose between Jesus's message and their family, it is imperative that they choose his message.It is never made clear what Jesus theJew's message really was. But two claims he makes stand out from all of the rest don't they.Matthew 10:34 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword"Matthew 15:24 "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."But can I ask why you have isolated these passages in particular as defining Jesus, to the exclusion of all other passages?Well they are specific and to the point. Jesus speaks of his intentions. He also admits, as I have explained, that his intentions will cause division even in the family.Matthew 15:24 is a comment Jesus makes to a Gentile woman who wants him to heal her daughter, but when pressed he cries "Oh woman, your faith is great!" and does heal her daughter.So even though he says he is only for the lost sheep of Israel, his actions immediately prove that to not be the case.
How does that prove "that not to be the case"?
Is it yet another ambiguous biblical half story? Or is it Jesus contradicting himself? Why would he contradict himself in the presence of his disciples that he had told his mission was to save Jews only? Have you asked yourself any one of these questions?
It appears that the contradiction is clear doesn't it.? So was this intentional or out of necessity? It was intentional because he wanted her to go away out of necessity.
His actions show to me that he needed to silence this woman as quickly as he could. Take into account what I said to you above : >>>
Stephen wrote: Well when we consider what ancient Palestine was like under Roman rule(read Josephus). I am sure I would be saying one thing in the open and another behind their backs.#19
You may not have taken the time to find out where Tyre & Sidon was and by whom they occupied and ruled ? Which is where this particular "healing" had taken place; Tyre and Sidon.
This woman has been running after him shouting out " son of David" all over the place and calling him "lord". " send her away" ( get rid of her) was an option.
But then , on top of this , she made a great show of it by worshiping him in full view of everyone including any Romans that was present!: When she did this he was left with no choice but to shut her up himself. It took just twelve words and she was silenced.
25 "Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me". <<<<<<<< In the open for all of Rome to see"!!!!
There are many verses in these scriptures where Jesus specifically forbids his followers never to tell openly what they had witnessed him do or say because , he told them:
"My time is not yet here; for you any time will do.." .
Understandable considering that he was in the middle of building a resistance force and considering he had come to reclaim a throne that someone else happened to be sitting on at the time and put in place by Rome, it was imperative that he keep who he was, and his mission secrete until "his time had come".
And to just point out; there were many Hellenised JEWS among the Diaspora (scattered Jews) making them gentiles in Tyre & Sidon. JEWS - had been under Greek rule before Roman rule since 334 BC and many (like this woman's daughter) would have been "lost" to the gods and customs of the Greeks. There were NO Christians in Jesus` time.
21 Then Jesus went thence, and departed into the coasts of Tyre and Sidon.
22 And, behold, a woman of Canaan came out of the same coasts, and cried unto him, saying, Have mercy on me, O Lord, thou son of David; my daughter is grievously vexed with a devil.
23 But he answered her not a word. And his disciples came and besought him, saying, Send her away; for she crieth after us.
24 But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
25 Then came she and worshipped him, saying, Lord, help me.
26 But he answered and said, It is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it to dogs.
27 And she said, Truth, Lord: yet the dogs eat of the crumbs which fall from their masters' table.
28 Then Jesus answered and said unto her, O woman, great is thy faith: be it unto thee even as thou wilt. And her daughter was made whole from that very hour.
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@ethang5
How do you debate people who hold falsehoods as axioms?
You have the balls to speak of "axioms"!?
Don't make me laugh. You are in to position to talk of axioms are you, hypocrite. How many biblical "axioms" have been established as accepted fact.?
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@crossed
Luke 21:25 And there shall be signs in the sun, and in the moon, and in the stars
Astronomy and astrology played a massive part in the lives of the ancients. Jesus, like many of the educated elite JEWS knew more about the sky (heavens) than they did blindness and leprosy, that's a fact. They were ruled by the signs in the sky it was their calendar/time piece. And its main function was to "tell" when a transition from one house (the ram) to another (the fish) was due or about to occur. I believe we are going through one of those transitions right now. The age of the fish has had it day and now there is a new house of (the water) due at any moment.
A careful reading of the OT shows a transition from the bull to the ram in the time of Moses. It also shows the transition from the ram to the fish.
Many Christians that I have met seem to want avoid all of the astronomical "signs" & references there are throughout the scriptures, they write them off as nothing more than hokum, bollocks and voodoo. And even with the sighting by the astronomers(magi) put aside, Jesus was himself forever banging on about "ages" and "signs" in the sky. His put down of the priests using astronomical language was a blinder, if the story is to be believed. Which I do. It is just a shame that there are far too many Christians that are far too indoctrinated (not to mention up their own arses) and drunk on miracles, sacrifice, sin and salvation, to look for themselves and see a completely different story that surrounds the life and times of their god-man, his struggle and his goal.
AND NO, I am not religious in the slightest.
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@aletheakatharos
I had zero exposure to pop culture................ I did not know who Elvis was until I was 19.
Well that's a crime in my country (if you were to ask Mrs Stephen). Elvis Presley did much for American music culture and made leaps and bounds in race relations than anyone I can think of. ( only for it to be set back decades by BLM and Antifa)
And music is the language of the universe.
Only my own opinion of course.
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@ethang5
You are welcome to your standard. I just happen to think Jesus is a bit more impressive than Bill.What ever did Jesus do that Gates OR ANYONE couldn't equally do ?Ask me in 2,000 years, and you won't have to.I am asking you now. Just name one single thing that Jesus did that Gates OR ANYONE could not do if he wanted to.Ethan doesn't do stupid.
So that will be nothing then. Just as I thought. You certainly speak some absolute bollocks at times. I will grant you that.
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I take the view that Jesus died for the elect.That would be Jews ,his elected chosen and treasured people, if the story is to be believed at all.The elect are the people that God has chosen for himself from every age.
Oh FFS STOP IT!!!!!!! You are making it all up in sheer desperation to be included in the Jews god fold. Gentiles were JEWS that had "LOST" their way . You really are desperate. How many times!!!??? THERE WERE NO CHRISTIANS in Palestine or anywhere else in Jesus' time.. NOT A SINGLE ONE!!! you are out of luck , your church is built on sand that is softer than shite.
he day that God seeks your permission to do anything - is the day he stops being God.Well from what I have read, and you agree god doesn't ask anyone anything least of all permission to do anything........I disagree with you
How many times on this thread have you said god doesn't need my permission, Reverend?..........
..............this is what I mean when I say above that you cannot even remember what you write or what it is someone else writes for you. Just right here, you have contradicted yourself AGAIN.
HERE IS YOU MOST RECENT#104 >>>>> "The day that God seeks your permission to do anything - is the day he stops being God" .
>>>>>>>>>> I think the notion that God has to ask you little man permission to do anything is a patronizing notion.
I can only recommend that you;
(a) insist your script writer read everything that you personally have written before preparing your script for you.
(b) tell him/them that their abysmal services are no longer required because you are fed up with him/them making you look a total dunce & braindead on every other post.
(c) prepare your own script yourself reading and re-reading before posting.
(d) read the fkn scriptures. and then as you say "pass on"#20 what it is that you have read for yourself
Did Jesus die for you? Again I don't know the answer.
So now go away, there is absolutely no need for you to be on this thread. NONE
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@ethang5
You are welcome to your standard. I just happen to think Jesus is a bit more impressive than Bill.What ever did Jesus do that Gates OR ANYONE couldn't equally do ?Ask me in 2,000 years, and you won't have to.
I am asking you now. Just name one single thing that Jesus did that Gates OR ANYONE could not do if he wanted to.
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@ethang5
I don't doubt that you will continue to try getting me banned...I don't want you to be banned Stephen. I want you to be intelligent.
Stop lying. You have been on a mission trying so hard to get me banned since your return that every line of every comment that you direct towards me lights up like Las Vegas.
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@ronjs
There are many people who cry out to a God
I admit to looking skyward when my children where ill. And I know many parents that have. And if I had been answered in my desperate hour of need I too could have become a true believer.
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@Tradesecret
You have a different opinion and that is your prerogative.
I do. And you don't like it that I won't allow you to lord it over me as some kind of authority simply because of your alleged qualifications in matters biblical .
Despite the fact that I provided details - generally at least of Jesus saving gentiles,
NO, you are a person that contracts himself often , uses double standards when it suites and never can seem to remember what you write not to mention the status of central characters in a biblical story . Would you like examples?
you continue to live in a la la fantasy world where you think your interpretation is the ONLY one possible.
No, that will be YOU CHRISTIANS that has done exactly that for over 2,000 years. I can always change my ideas and opinions on the scriptures. I am the atheist not you.
Jesus was sent to the Jews. I have not denied that even once.
Yes only because you cannot deny it. No matter how much you try to heap yourselves into the fold of the JEWS, gods only chosen and treasured people.
Yet, this does not mean that his salvation was not for a much broader congregation.
Let me see your evidence that it included Christians. . So far Jesus and the bible itself say your wrong . Jesus din't ever once mention the word Christians , did he. the idea of a salvation for ones sins is a Christian Idea. Jews hold that adherents do not need personal salvation as Christians believe. Jews do not subscribe to the doctrine of "original sin" either!
And in fact the evidence shows that, despite your constant protestations.
Show it to me then. Or is this yet another one of your "the bible clearly says so" throw away comments that you have no intention of supporting. Show me Jesus telling Christians that they are saved if they bend the knee and believe in him.
I have not forgotten about Jesus blood sacrifice. The timing in many ways is immaterial. The book of Hebrews clearly tells us that the Jews in the OT were saved by faith in Jesus. Just as the those after Jesus are saved by faith in Jesus. The OT looked forward and the NT look back. All eyes however are focused on Jesus.
It is the saving of Christians that I am interested in. I know that gods chosen and treasured people where Jews. It is I that has to keep reminding you. Redemption as far as Jews were concerned was from exile, as I am sure any Jew here will attest.
I take the view that Jesus died for the elect.
That would be Jews ,his elected chosen and treasured people, if the story is to be believed at all.
Did Jesus die for you? Again I don't know the answer.
So if you do not know, then your time on this thread at least, is over, isn't it.
If you were to place your trust in Jesus, the Messiah and bow the knee to him, then perhaps it may well be the case.
Where does the scripture command or even ask this prerequisite? Keeping in mind that YOU say he doesn't need to ask anything .
I think the notion that God has to ask you little man permission to do anything is a patronizing notion.
Well you would. Even you have the fanciful notion that somehow that you are above me. Well I can tell you, nothing that you have ever said to me thus far on the whole of this forum would convince me to look up to you, of all people, as some kind of authority.
The day that God seeks your permission to do anything - is the day he stops being God.
Well from what have read, and you agree god doesn't ask anyone anything . He just allows rape and murder commits murder allows his sons to rape and then kills those that complain about it. If the bible is to be believed at all.
I am pleased your syntax has returned.
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@aletheakatharos
But respond you did. While totally ignoring and without even attempting, the theme of my topic.Thank you for your response to my poor attempt at answering.
No problem. I found some of what you have said helpful.
I have learned my lesson and will not further respond :)
It wasn't intended as a lesson. I simply replied to you and your own comments . And you either respond or you don't.
You mentioned that you " adopted the faith of your parents"#1 It would be nice if you could follow up on that explaining how and why here>> https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5301-how-does-one-become-a-christian
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@ethang5
You are welcome to your standard. I just happen to think Jesus is a bit more impressive than Bill.
What ever did Jesus do that Gates OR ANYONE couldn't equally do?
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