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@ethang5
@ethang5 wrote: Atheists Are Not Stupid
Can the same be said for theists?@ethang5 wrote: You didn't read the OP so I'll repost it here for you.
Oh I did. Not that it has a reflection on my own question. Did you not read this interesting piece posted by a member about the subject?
Biological and cognitive underpinnings of religious fundamentalism
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@ethang5
As long as you keep shutting up every time I post scripture you insisted didn't exist.
I never have done.
And that will depend what it is you post and claim about any particular part of scripture.
Is all I have ever get from you is lies and your own interpretation of what only you believe the scripture means. Never proof. Since august 2018 you have created 45 threads. Only ten of those are in the religion sub forum of those ten only about four would qualify as religious scripture subject matter.
There isn't much chance of a lying back peddler such as you "shutting me up". You are simply are not clever enough.
I don't doubt that you will continue to try getting me banned as you have done in the past and since your return from your own ban for a continued pattern of sexual harassment, wasn't it?.#17
Like I have said, princess. Your boy Jesus was a warrior messiah building an army who was cutdown by the ruling classes of the day after his attempted rebellion at the temple. He wan't sent by god, he wasn't a miracle worker and he certainly wasn't a Christian. And I know this because the bible tells me so and I am not forcing you to believe it.
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@ethang5
Atheists Are Not Stupid
Can the same be said for theists?
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@Utanity
Can Christians prove that god had a plan for every single one of us from day one of ours creation? Is that plan on course?Only true Christians can prove that God has the plan but he will never tell us what it is.
So are you a far too clever Christian or far too stupid Christian then to be able to prove the plan?
Does kernel sanders say whats in the kfc
Well I can examine the chicken for myself. But I am not sure about it all coming from Kentucky or that it is all fried in Kentucky.
if he did give out the recipe then everyone will copy kfc.
But we are all indeed gods. We were " made in the image of the gods" and we have " become like gods" or do you not believe the bible and gods own predictions.
So you dont want everyone copying your plan do you.
I may not want to copy it. So far, the plan if ever there was or is one, has been nothing but conflict.
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@Utanity
Atheists have the logic but use the emotion Author:Utanity
Your spellings terrible and getting worse. This is how you should spell - lodgyick!
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@ethang5
You are spent ethang.
You are now at the stage creating further argument where there isn't one.
I suggest that you seek some further religious education before you even attempt to challenge me on these scripture that you know absolutely nothing about other than what some of pastor or chaplain has rammed down you extremely large mouth.
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@aletheakatharos
You are an expert at ignoring the questions and posing your own. Twice now you have done this on two of my threads . Posing your own questions in response to my initial questions do not in any way, answer or address the original - my original questions.I apologize if I have offended you.
You didn't offend me. I was concerned for you, that you were showing your ignorance so soon after becoming a member. Attempting to answer a question with a question of your own must be something all christian are trained to do. It seemed to have come to you so natural and effortless.
I have come to this site to learn and I do not consider myself qualified to adequately respond.
But respond you did. While totally ignoring and without even attempting, the theme of my topic. you did the same here>>#53
So my question was to learn more about your position .
My position is simply. I do not believe these scriptures in the state they have come down to us and the New Testament in particular. I don't care if or not there is a god and I don't care that Jesus believed that he was dying for my sins. I am not interested that you have a faith because it is no business of mine , I am not interested in making you an apostate or do I have any intentions of even attempting to turn you from your god. It is only that which you have - faith IN, that interests me. i.e the religious scriptures.
I am a practicing Christian, yes.
Then I hope that don't offend you as I seem to do most Christians by highlighting these unreliable, contradictory, ambiguous half stories that make up these scriptures.
Did you miss my questions?No, I simply do not think I can answer them sufficiently for you.
You won't know until you try.
since you seem to want me to try, I will give you what my limited knowledge can offer.Was me being born for instance, a part of " gods plan " , if so, why do I not know about it by now? Will I even know about it?
Ok. I will take this a piece at a time.
I believe your birth (like everyone's) is part of God's plan. God has an overarching plan for all of humanity to be redeemed from sin and live with him.
But can you prove that? - is my question.
Like pieces on a chessboard, we will all have unique roles to play in that ultimate plan. For example, my role is to teach and protect children from abusive parents.
And that is to be highly, highly commended. And the world should be thankful for people just like you, even those ones that are atheists .
I know my role because it lines up with my passions, my skills,
Indeed, the operative words being "my".
and what I perceive God telling me what to do.
You say what you "perceive it to be god telling you", suggesting doubt? Can you not accept that you got to where you are by, and on, your own merit and hard work? Are you telling me then that without what you perceive to be "divine intervention" you couldn't have or wouldn't have achieved your " psych major? And didn't you mention a "placebo effect" and tell us that your " personal and emotional reasons lie in how my faith influenced my life experiences".#1 aletheakatharos.
And I am sure that I do not have to point out to you that religious "faith" is based on a spiritual conviction only, rather than proof. Which us back to my question of can you/Christians prove god has a plan for us all?
Was Jesus being sent to earth to suffer and die also part of gods plan?Yes, it was mentioned immediately after Adam and Eve ate of the tree.
Ok. And what part of "the fall" mentions that god intends to send Jesus to suffer a Roman execution and die a cross? Where is it that god says _ ' for what you have done I will send my only begotten son to die a roman execution of crucifixion"?
Is every act we witness in nature good and bad all part of gods divine plan?That is hard to answer because it ventures into theodicy. However, I believe that God works everything together to fulfill his master plan of salvation and restoration from sin.
But you have no proof of the extremely well detailed plan. And Theodicy is simply an avenue that all Christians take when they are caught cold and confronted with indefensible actions taken by their god. SEE post #9
Was the "plan" centered on individuals and not everyone, as Jeremiah 29:11 seems to suggest?Jeremiah 29:11 is actually addressed to the entire nation of Israel, so it is not centered on individuals.
Yes it is an address by god himself to his "treasured and chosen people , Israel" as
Deuteronomy 14:2, confirms, "For you are a holy people to YHWH your God, and God has chosen you to be his treasured people from all the nations that are on the face of the earth."
As I said before, I am not qualified [.....................] to debate you on this.
That is why you have to rely on faith alone... and what you have been told. Most Christians do not read the scriptures for themselves. They totally rely on those they believe qualified to do so, people with titles as pastor a priest or a Chaplin, to give them guidance in their daily lives and tell them what god expects of them.
They have had the scriptures read to them. In their bible studies and or classes or church, they are told which page, chapter and verse to turn to, the passage is then read out to them and then it is explained to them in a sermon, and sometimes questions are taken and quickly waived away as insignificant or irrelevant. I have witnessed this many times.
This is excusable for millions of Christians and for obvious reasons : they simply do not have the time. You have told me here #53 _ "I have never been an atheist so I am so curious!" _ , yet you also say that "I am not qualified" to discuss or debate " this with me. And you have proven my point right there.. Christian all of your life yet know only basic religious teachings about the scriptures and that what you have been told or had explained for you. It is not your fault and I am not blaming you.
People have to keep their heads down and noses to the grind stone for a living, to keep bread on the table and roofs over heads. This in turn has created a comfortable suitable position in life and lucrative employment for some to take advantage of. If you can't accept what I say, then take on faith and accept what Jesus has to say>>
“Beware of the teachers of the law. They like to walk around in flowing robes and love to be greeted with respect in the marketplaces and have the most important seats in the synagogues and the places of honor at banquets. They devour widows’ houses and for a show make lengthy prayers. "
Luke 20:46-47 New International Version
And there is Mathew
Seven Woes to the Scribes and Pharisees
23 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to his disciples, 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit on Moses' seat, 3 so do and observe whatever they tell you, but not the works they do. For they preach, but do not practice. 4 They tie up heavy burdens, hard to bear, and lay them on people's shoulders, but they themselves are not willing to move them with their finger. 5 They do all their deeds to be seen by others. For they make their phylacteries broad and their fringes long, 6 and they love the place of honor at feasts and the best seats in the synagogues 7 and greetings in the marketplaces and being called rabbi by others".
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@Tradesecret
I suppose the NT writers got it from the OT and while they were under the inspiration of the Spirit.That's a fair response if by "the spirit" you mean the spirit of god? Are you saying then the NT authors then believed what they had read in the OT? And do you believe as they may have done that _ every action taken and word spoken are all by gods design and according to his plan?What else would I mean?
That is what I asked you. You appear to be perfectly happy to agree with these authors that every action and every word spoken by anyone, is all part of gods divine plan? Simply correct me if I am wrong.
think that one is pretty obvious. Is 53 clearly talks about it, if one assumes that Is 53 is talking about the Messiah suffering as opposed to the nation of Israel.So according to you then, Isiah 53 is explaining that gods sending of Jesus to suffer and die on a cross was all part of gods plan?And do you agree with Isaiah 53 that it was all gods plan?I think Is 53 provides evidence that the Messiah was meant to suffer. Yes.
But you do agree then that it was part of gods divine plan that Jesus was sent to suffer and die on a cross?
Was the "plan" centered on individuals and not everyone, as Jeremiah 29:11 seems to suggest?[A] Personally I think Jeremiah 29:11 was directed only to the people Jeremiah was addressing ................But it wasn't it god that did the "declaring". : For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."You really should bone up on these scriptures Reverend. You do make yourself look entirely stupid at time.I never said it was not God talking through Jeremiah. Don't be an ass.
The bible makes it very clear that these are words spoken by god himself. You seemed to think that it was Jeremiah doing all the, "addressing". SEE YOUR OWN WORDS @ [A] ABOVE.
I simply pointed out YOUR massive horse's arshole of a mistake. You really need to get a grip on these scriptures Reverend if you are going to argue in their- or gods favour. Or simply get the illiterate and forgetful dunce that is scripting for you to do his fkn homework, he's making you, a man letters, look a complete and utter cretin.
I think there is a difference between God's divine plan as such for his creation as opposed to his divine will which is recorded for his people to obey.What is it and why do you even suggest a difference if everything is god plan? Surely gods divine will is part of gods plan.There is the hidden plan of God
How would you know, if it is hidden?
- which at times he gives us glimpses of - for his own purposes.
This is interesting. And can you give me an example or two of the "glimpses?
The hidden plan of God for the universe is not ours for the understanding.
Well that's all you had to say when you joined my thread, wasn't it. You could have just said know one knows.
But instead, you have wasted my time and your own talking about gods plan that only NOW- according to you "is hidden" and "not ours to understand". So how do you even know then that every action taken and every word spoken by every god created being is all part of gods divine plan? you don't do you?
Why God does what he does is a matter for him.
So your words and your actions are all preordained by god as part of his divine plan?
I don't think people can miss God's plan - ever -I don't mind admitting that I have missed it. What is it and how do you know that IT is part of his plan?Yet people can walk outside of his will. For example David when he committed adultery walked outside of God's will. And when he murdered Uriah he walked outside of God's will. Yet, in doing so, this was part of God's divine plan.God's plan included this as a first cause. Yet, David was alone responsible for his actions.
Are just saying that or can you actually prove it?
And do you ever read what you write before you post it! If "this was part of God's divine plan." then how at all can it possibly be that David ( a son of god) IS responsible for actions that were preordained in a divine plan put together but god himself? You are simply attempting to wash gods hands for him, ..............
and it won't be the first time , will it.
You have attempted this same shite when I brought up the FACT that it was GOD, by his own admission, that caused the "hardening of Pharaoh's heart" that brought on all those deadly plagues and caused the deaths of thousand of first born babies and children.. Your desperation at that time was the same as it is now, your attempts at trying to defend the indefensible simply shows- once again - that you want it both ways. Well you can't.
You have repeated over and over and have been adamant that all this is part of gods divine plan. And that every action we take and every word we speak are all a part of gods divine plan for us all and the world..
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@zedvictor4
Tee Hee...Just if I, for sure.
Stop it Vic, ffs. Have some respect. im get tu goldi med lies ans as well toow bron zies wons hands free underd powsts, now
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@Theweakeredge
I suppose I can explain why I'm an atheist, and really it came down to two essential factors:
- I opened my mind to the possibility that I was wrong in regards of god and such
- I read the bible without assuming it to be true[ .........................................]
the conundrum of a sincere rapist accepting jesus into their heart and getting to go to heaven, while the good people who simply did not believe went to hell;
I have asked similar many times on this forum most recently was just days ago here>>#95 Stephen - How does killing a goat for instance excuse someone that has raped and murderer someones daughter? Why should such a vile god created person have a place in a "heavenly paradise"?
I have also asked many times questions on Jesus' reluctance to cure others:
Why is that Jesus didn't eradicate all leprosy instead of curing just a few lepers?
The same goes for blindness? Why didn't Jesus simply say all blindness be cured and then all blindness was cured instead of curing the blindness of a few?
Why tell just tell just one crippled man to "take up thy bed and walk" and not tell all cripples that they should do the same?
And why waste what appears to be a perfectly good "miracle of turning water into wine" so wedding guests can get drunk? It wasn't even his wedding , was it? Who was he and his mother that they should take over the catering arrangements for someone else's' wedding, when there was a perfectly good steward on hand that could have sent out for replenishments?
John the baptist, "the greatest prophet that had ever lived" and said to be the for runner sent to pave the way for Jesus , for some reason, after all his years of "crying in the wilderness" suddenly and for reasons unexplained, believed it was Jesus that should be baptising him!!!!
THIS ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ and hundreds of other biblical anomalies is why I don't believe and for the reason that the bible make absolutely no sense at all in the state that it has come down and has been preached to us for 2 millennia.
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@FLRW
At the beginning of the 20th century, worldwide life expectancy was less than 40 years of age. Today the world average stands at around 72. The single biggest reason for this miraculous leap in longevity has been our ability to cure diseases. Vaccines, antibiotics and advances in medical technology have changed the game. We are still in an arms race against many diseases, but we stand at a unique period in human history where it's possible to imagine a day when we have conquered disease.Cures have been found for several of history's most feared diseases, and a few diseases have been eradicated. Here's a list of deadly diseases cured by modern science.1. Tetanus2. Rabies3. Polio4. Yellow Fever5. Whooping Cough6. Measles7. SmallpoxWhy isn't God smarter than MD?
I have asked many times on this religion forum, why is that Jesus didn't eradicate all leprosy instead of curing just a few lepers?
The same goes for blindness? Why didn't Jesus simply say all blindness be cured and then all blindness was cured instead of curing the blindness of a few?
Why tell just tell just one crippled man to "take up thy bed and walk" and not tell all cripples that they should do the same?
And why waste what appears to be a perfectly good miracle of turning water into wine? I suppose if one was going to launch themselves onto the world stage with a bang, this may have been what Jesus had in mind as the perfect way to do it?
Jesus seems a bit of picky bias kind of chap doesn't he?
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@ethang5
Did you here what two of your countries Muslim congress women had to say lately?How is it pertinent to our topic?
My topic .
You think they are terrible but you quote them as your support?
To support my statements.
My country isn't a shithole.
I didn't say it was. I have said don't let AMERICA become one like my country that is being turned into a shithole by cultures alien and incompatible to my English culture and way of life . But you know that I said that and are now just struggling for anything that will inflame an argument in a desperate attempt to be right about... something or anything.
You are instead though making yourself look absolutely fkn stupid!
Do not cave into this shite and stand up and at defend your faith if not your countryDidn't you condemn Jesus for doing what you're doing?
Show me where I have condemned Jesus , bright spark.
I am asking/begging AMERICA not to cave in to the menace that is heading your way and have shown you that it is closer to home than YOU may want to even admit. Just like our ex Prime Minister your Messiah, Barack Hussein Obama, stood on the world stage and shouted to the world that "Islam is a religion of peace" when the facts speak for themselves that Islam is anything but. Or do you believe Barack Hussein Obama, that Islam is in fact a religion of peace?
Like us here, you already have Muslim Shariah courts that will take precedent over your own laws of the land. And this can only happen with the complicity of those like you - those "turn the other cheek" and "love thine enemies" types ignoring it. Your leaders will start by telling that these Muslim shariah laws are only practiced on the "domestic arbitration" front and will not affect the laws of the land, when in fact they already do.
There will be no Prince of Peace riding to rescue, princess. There is a new god on the block, the age of the fish is over.
you ignored this ...... at your own peril. If you can't manage all of the words just read the bold highlight.
“You,the Muslim community in Georgia, by yourselves, can literally swing this entire election and send two Democrats to the U.S. Senate, which makes Kamala Harris the deciding vote,” she said. “And you can actually alleviate harm and suffering on millions of immigrants in this country, particularly on the issue of immigration reform.”
“Let history be made, and let the story be told: On January 5, 2021, it is the Muslim American community, the votes from the Muslim American community in Georgia, that literally helped us win back that Senate and put us back on the path towards winning justice for our [Muslim] community,” Sarsour said.
And that ethang 5, is exactly what has happened in towns and cities up and down my once green and pleasant land. Where the large Muslim communities have simply voted in their own Muslim Mayors and Muslim MP's and not on merit but simply because they ae Muslim.
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@Tradesecret
Can Christians prove that god had a plan for every single one of us from day one of ours creation? Is that plan on course?Those that could prove God had a plan would not ask such a dumb question.
Well I am one of those that CANNOT prove it, that is why I asked. what a dumb response.
I am not purporting to be one or the other.
Which? Dumb if you could or or not dumb if you cannot?
And wherever did the New Testament authors even of the get the idea that everything that happens, every action taken and word spoken are all by gods design and according to his plan?I suppose the NT writers got it from the OT and while they were under the inspiration of the Spirit.
That's a fair response if by "the spirit" you mean the spirit of god? Are you saying then the NT authors then believed what they had read in the OT? And do you believe as they may have done that _ every action taken and word spoken are all by gods design and according to his plan?
There are some NT verses that claim god has a plan for us all and even fewer that talk of a "plan" in the Old Testament such as; "I have planned it, surely I will do it” . Isaiah 46:3-11.Goody - well there you have your answer.
Well no, I don't. Isaiah 46:3-11. don't really cover it. It doesn't suggest a plan for all of us as individuals and that all our words and actions are all gods doing and by his design.
Was me being born for instance, a part of " gods plan " , if so why do I not know about it by now? Will I even know about it?This is a strange question. Why is that you need to know being born was part of God's plan? And given you are alive, then how could you NOT know it?
So are you saying then ethang5, that just by me being alive answers, why it is that I don't know why I was born and where I fit into "gods plan". No. It doesn't and it appears that you don't know either.
Was Jesus being sent to earth to suffer and die also part of gods plan?I think that one is pretty obvious. Is 53 clearly talks about it, if one assumes that Is 53 is talking about the Messiah suffering as opposed to the nation of Israel.
So according to you then, Isiah 53 is explaining that gods sending of Jesus to suffer and die on a cross was all part of gods plan? And do you agree with Isaiah 53 that it was all gods plan?
Is every act we witness in nature good and bad all part of gods divine plan?What do you say dear Stephen? Oops sorry I forgot this is your topic and you are the one asking questions.
Your learning, good boy! So what do you say?
Was the "plan" centered on individuals and not everyone, as Jeremiah 29:11 seems to suggest?Personally I think Jeremiah 29:11 was directed only to the people Jeremiah was addressing ................
But it wasn't it god that did the "declaring". : For I know the plans I have for you,” declares the Lord, “plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."
You really should bone up on these scriptures Reverend. You do make yourself look entirely stupid at time.
There are plenty of Christians that are forever talking about gods divine plan for us all and our purpose on this earth. But I fail to detect a plan at all in the erratic and unbalanced and at times, confusing world that I live in?I think there is a difference between God's divine plan as such for his creation as opposed to his divine will which is recorded for his people to obey.
What is it and why do you even suggest a difference if everything is god plan? Surely gods divine will is part of gods plan.
I don't think people can miss God's plan - ever -
I don't mind admitting that I have missed it. What is it and how do you know that IT is part of his plan?
Mostly, however looking to find God's will is a misnomer.
I am not asking about gods will. I am simply asking about gods plan.
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@Tradesecret
I am not going to start a thread for you dear old Stephen. LOL!
I know that silly. And stop with you puerile LOL-ing. You are supposed to be a academically trained and qualified tutor, ffs
In fact if Jesus did die for everyone - then everyone must be going to heaven. Yet, since we are also told some are going to Hell,
"if"? you sound a little unsure about what you have been preaching for years , there Reverend.
And that will be the "second death" that Chaplains and Priests and Ministers used bang on about but do so very rarely these days, I assume. Yes that's one for you to contemplate isn't it Pastor. Lets hear your explanation. Try and keep it short , if you're going to bother at all?,Reverend.
But then again, it is not a matter that I am able to answer as to whether he died for you or not. That is a totally separate question.
You brought the "perhaps he didn't" into the mix, Pastor. Not me.
it seems logical he could not have died for all.
It does indeed, doesn't it? He if couldn't have died for everyone, and the vile blood sacrifice was wasted on many then wasn't it. I do wonder then what the point of the lost sheep parable was all about. It seem all very pointless when it is all broken down as you have so cleverly broken it down. Maybe some JEWISH "sheep" ask far too many questions to be "saved" and don't accept the first bit of gobshite that he is offered in reply, to be saved.
Again - saying Jesus died for sinners is not at suggesting that Jesus died for every sinner.
You may well have something there again, Reverend. Because as the scriptures clearly state, Jesus said " "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." Matthew 15:24..
Jesus being sent only to the lost sheep of Israel - does not mean ipso facto that he was not sent to save Gentiles.
Oh stop it, Reverend, ONLY means ONLY, in any language. And you again, attempting to insert other meanings won't change what Jesus himself said.
Does Jesus say- :
'I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel and to ONLY some Christians and to ONLY some gentiles ' -? NO!. he doesn't. The ideas is ridiculous and smacks of sheer desperation to be included among the "saved".
. "Only" relates to "sent", not to "save".
No it doesn't Only means exactly what it says. You are avoiding the FACT that Israel was gods "chosen and treasured" nation above ALL nations. They were JEWS not Christians. There were no Christians in Jesus time. So no Christians to be preached to OR saved!! It is only Christians that have included themselves to be among "gods chosen people". You were not chosen by god to be among or above his chosen people. I believe Jesus would have been absolutely appalled that a whole new religious ideology had sprang up in his name.
And you are also forgetting that Jesus was forgiving & saving JEWS even before his so called blood sacrifice which is odd considering the blood sacrifice hadn't even been paid.
Lost means, lost their way in god and were "dead" and needed to be "saved" as the parable of the wayward "dead" son makes perfectly clear:Luke 15:18-24
I have sinned against heaven, and before thee, .......
And the son said unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and in thy sight, and am no more worthy to be called.......
For this my son was dead, and is alive again; he was lost, and is found. And they began to be merry.
See those words Reverend!!? dead, lost and found , all in the same fkn sentence.. You really are shite at your scriptures aren't you Reverend?
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@ethang5
Like you, Willows was always ridiculous and hardly ever funny. He never failed to trow away his integrity for a potshot at God. And what do you know, God survived.But you little ole ants keep trying. Who knows, maybe one day you guys may move that rubber tree God. Even if everyone knows that an anthiest can't, move a rubber tree God. But you have high hopes, you've got high hopes!! .........Oops! There stands the immutable rubber tree God, oops, they haven't moved the immutable rubber tree God!Lol.
Oh ethang, my boy, my boy.
I think can see our problem now. I don't know how we ever got so many wires crossed!!!!????
ethang5 my son, I believe in god! In fact ,I believe that there were at least 600 hundred of them here once but they left " like migrating birds" millennia ago and just before some great disaster struck the earth. It could have been the same natural disaster that struck Sodom and Gomorrah and those other three cities. I am sure I could make a link if I tried and put my mind to it. But what would be the point, no one would believe my belief, would they? But I bet I could make it sound more plausible than people coming back to life that had been dead and stinking and rotting in their graves for days , weeks, months and years.
Listen princess, I am just as annoyed and frustrated as any Christian is that I cannot prove a damn single thing that I believe.
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@aletheakatharos
You seem to know quite a bit about Christianity. What is your background with it?
You are an expert at ignoring the questions and posing your own. Twice now you have done this on two of my threads . Posing your own questions in response to my initial questions do not in any way, answer or address the original - my original questions.
Are you a Christian? Your profile suggest that you are. But are you a practicing Christian? The title of this thread, my thread does have the words " Christian" and proof of "gods plan", in it. I ask because this is an ignorant and habitual ploy that many Christians adopt when they can't or won't answer the simplest of questions concerning their own scriptures, but instead choose conflict and disruption (and posing their own questions) over such simple questions .
Did you miss my questions?
Was me being born for instance, a part of " gods plan " , if so, why do I not know about it by now? Will I even know about it?
Was Jesus being sent to earth to suffer and die also part of gods plan?
Is every act we witness in nature good and bad all part of gods divine plan?
Was the "plan" centered on individuals and not everyone, as Jeremiah 29:11 seems to suggest?
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@Tradesecret
Perhaps Jesus did not die for you.
Perhaps? Why don't you start a thread explaining why "Perhaps" Jesus didn't die for me, Reverend?
Actually, it shouldn't be too hard to prove your case. After all, the scriptures themselves do seem to be in some-kind of agreement with what you are suggesting as they do tell that Jesus was sent ONLY to the lost tribes Israel? THAT WILL BE JEWS, REVEREND, if I remember correctly? And there is no mention of saving Christians at all ; LOOOOK>>>
"I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." Matthew 15:24..
Who said he did?
People like you, Reverend. Or are you telling me different?
“Jesus Died for Sinners”: Do Your People Know What This Actually Means"?
"The longer I pastor, the more I’m convinced that pastors should regularly preach the unsearchable riches of Christ not only for the salvation of the lost but also for the believers’ growth in grace."
And are the other hundreds of religion/religious web pages that are full of claims by Pastors and Priests that "Jesus died for me" and why "Jesus died for me" all wrong ?
Now, how about that thread you are just itching to start?
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@FLRW
By having smaller hippocampi and prefrontal cortical volumes than an intelligent person?
Interesting. We know infants don't know a lot about religion and Jesus and rotting,stinking years old corpses coming to life , because they may well have "smaller hippocampi and prefrontal cortical volumes than an intelligent person". But I was asking about becoming a Christian in adulthood? So are you suggesting then some-kind of brain growth impairment? Microcephaly perhaps?
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@aletheakatharos
Stephen wrote: Many do, it has to be recognised, "fall by the way side " and make their own path through life unchained from any belief system.If so, does that mean that atheists have no beliefs at all?
I am sorry I didn't make it clear.
Maybe I should have kept to religious belief systems and not have used the words _ any belief system. Although this thread, posted on a religion forum is clearly speaking of Christians and how they become CHRISTIANS in adult life. I am sorry you missed that point too.
Is it possible to not believe in anything?
I doubt it is. I believe that the sun will rise tomorrow unless something stops it rising tomorrow. I believe that if I go out in the rain I will get wet.
I believe that if I am tied to a stake on top of a large pile of kindling wood and logs and someone sets it alight that I will burn to death slowly. Something I am sure that all Christians will agree with and believe too .
So for me to have used the words _ any belief system - when writing on a religion forum that discusses and debates matters of religion and or the religious, and asking how one becomes a Christian, may all have been a little too deep for some to relate the two without the obvious connection having to be pin pointed for them.
It is also possible not to believe in supernatural events such as a days or even years old rotten stinking corpses being brought back to life with the use of just three spoken words.
I have never been an atheist so I am so curious!
And I am curious to know why you have avoided my question totally but instead chose to pose questions of your own . Are you a Christian?
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@ethang5
Stephen wrote: And also in the dead sea scrolls is Jesus telling his followers to call him The Amen. All very Egyptian that , don't you think.ethang5 wrote; You think Jesus is responsible for what is written in the dead sea scrolls? Seriously, I can't tell if you are just profoundly ignorant or if you're just pretending to be dumb. I really can't.
Is Jesus responsible for what is written in the New Testament?
And how come you want to accept on one hand what the Dead Sea Scroll have to say on Jesus being " light" when they work in your favour, but then straightaway, in the next breath, you appear dismissing the dead sea scrolls as heresy.
Do you believe the Dead Sea Scrolls to be heresy? You mentioned the Scrolls before I did princess.
You have used and referenced the Dead Sea Scrolls to support your "god is light" argument. So tell me, why is one from the same source heresy and another acceptable
to you ?
Such as this
also in the dead sea scrolls where we read of the lovely Peter, AKA the lords "rock" saying to Jesus " let Mary leave us, for woman are not worthy of life”. .
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@ethang5
I love my country England...
The same one you called a shithole right? Uh huh.
Yes that one. The one that is going to the dogs and being turned into a third world backwater shithole of a country because of mass legal immigration by cultures alien and incompatible to English /western society. But I wouldn't expect even the lowest of cretinous contrary dickheads to understand that. Just pray (for what its worth) that what is happening here don'st happen over there princess. . Because its coming to a town near you.
Let's all hope you never become president where you could bomb all those poor wretched African souls to death to "end" their suffering. With enough bombs, we could end suffering!"the lord" did to Five cities in Mesopotamia killing 1.5 million souls.Eze 18:4 - Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sins, it shall die.
How proud you must feel.
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@ethang5
Let's all hope you never become president where you could bomb all those poor wretched African souls to death to "end" their suffering. With enough bombs, we could end suffering!
Like "the lord" did to Five cities in Mesopotamia killing 1.5 million souls.
I see you think as highly of the US as Stephen thinks of England
I love America. I love my country England too. England unfortunately though is being over run and turned into a complete shithole by people - mainly males - from Africa and the middle east. Don't let you lovely country become like mine. We have cowards in parliament here that won't say BOO!! to Islam and are silent on ILLEGAL immigration . And your government is on the way to becoming the same in my opinion.
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@TheUnderdog
Would you rather shoot a starving African kid and give them the easy way out(assuming you could get away with it) or do nothing and let them die of starvation (which is more painful than a shot in the back of the head).
It shows what a sorry state it all is when it all eventually boils down to questions like this.
Africa has more aid (£££££££'s) thrown at it , than any place in the world since I can remember. Nothing much has changed the living quality of Africans.
Every day we here in England have our TV screens bombarded with pleas for donations for mainly Africa . And has been that way since I was a child ( am am almost 66 now) For years we have seen he same girl walking for miles water. The same fisherman with a broken net. The same child with fly's swarming around her eyes while she wipes her poor runny snotty nose with her hand. You name it they have thought about all the ways of playing on the conscience of the west.
I am not a selfish person but I have had enough of having every other commercial directed at my conscience when I have witnessed for myself black people not giving two fks about other black people , even in these dire circumstances.
One example would be Live Aid UK 1985. I attended that concert for Africa. And I come away feeling stolen from. Why? Because to my memory, I seen only one black artist on the stage perform a 3 song set . I had a view that over looked the stadium and can't remember seeing one black face in the crowd, that had turned out to support their starving black brothers and sister dying in Africa.
There are even ungrateful black MP's & celebrities here in the UK demanding that white aid workers and celebrities stop going to Africa and "playing at being white saviours" !!! FFS Whitey cannot do right for doing wrong!!!
The Free Mandela concert a few years later in contrast was a different story entirely . Well it would be wouldn't it . That concert was all to do with nasty whitey locking up a black terrorist for years.
And no, I wouldn't go to African to shoot a black person in the head. I wouldn't want to be called a "white saviour" for the wrong reasons.
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@ethang5
Like I said, Jesus never once utters the words Christian, Christians or Christianity.
Silly little boy, you.
I hope conditions in England improve for you.
So do I but I know they won't while there are cowards such as you on the planet. Did you here what two of your countries Muslim congress women had to say lately?
Rashida Tlaib: 'I Hope You Realize Just the Opportunity Here That Allah Has Given Us to Show the Power of Muslims in Georgia’
“I want people to be like, oh my God, I didn’t even know Muslims are in Georgia,” she said. “Exactly! Because we’re going to show them in droves of numbers.”
“I want to, mash’allah [what Allah has willed] be able to say, ‘Look at the voting in these precincts and guess what? It was the Muslim vote that delivered Georgia,’ ” Tlaib said.
Ilhan Omar said Muslim voters in Georgia had played a big part in delivering the result on November 3 that necessitated the runoff, and voiced the hope that the same would apply on January 5.
“I do hope that when the election is decided on January 5, and people are able to analyze who came out and voted, we will hear that the Muslims in Georgia were a big part of making the right decision in this historic election,” she said.
“You,the Muslim community in Georgia, by yourselves, can literally swing this entire election and send two Democrats to the U.S. Senate, which makes Kamala Harris the deciding vote,” she said. “And you can actually alleviate harm and suffering on millions of immigrants in this country, particularly on the issue of immigration reform.”
“Let history be made, and let the story be told: On January 5, 2021, it is the Muslim American community, the votes from the Muslim American-community in Georgia, that literally helped us win back that Senate and put us back on the path towards winning justice for our community,” Sarsour said.
Do not cave into this shite and stand up and at defend your faith if not your country. My country is falling fast to Islam with the help of those we have In power.
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Why are you posting this to me, Ethang 5 ? It looks like to me like the intended recipient was 3RU7ALIt was in response to your post #95. Did you forget it?
No I didn't forget. I responded to that. But you have now made clear that won't be discussing the "spirit " with me at least and I am not too surprised as you have, on the few odd threads that you have created declined to discuss subjects that we even appear to agree on........ in part at least.
And also in the dead sea scrolls is Jesus telling his followers to call him The Amen. All very Egyptian that , don't you think.You think Jesus is responsible for what is written in the dead sea scrolls? Seriously, I can't tell if you are just profoundly ignorant or if you're just pretending to be dumb. I really can't.
Is Jesus responsible for what is written in the New Testament?
And how come you want to accept on one hand what the Dead Sea Scroll have to say on Jesus being " light" when they work in your favour, but then straightaway, in the next breath, you appear dismissing the dead sea scrolls as heresy.
Do you believe the Dead Sea Scrolls to be heresy? You mentioned the Scrolls before I did princess.
You have used and referenced the Dead Sea Scrolls to support your "god is light" argument. So tell me, why is one from the same source heresy and another acceptable
to you ?
Such as this
also in the dead sea scrolls where we read of the lovely Peter, AKA the lords "rock" saying to Jesus " let Mary leave us, for woman are not worthy of life”. .
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@ethang5
Remember when Willows tried a sock that had broken English?
It just another type of biblical bullshit but doesn't sound quite as funny or ridiculous.
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@Utanity
I can live..and die with that. Can you? So even someone as intelligent as you cannot tell me how you became a Christian.See, I tolded you 3 times exactly and your still dont getting it so when your snuffed the allivator will letting you off at the base meant
So that's NO. You don't know how you became a Christian. And you can't tell us how you were "called" and "chosen " either.
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Can Christians prove that god had a plan for every single one of us from day one of ours creation? Is that plan on course?
And wherever did the New Testament authors even of the get the idea that everything that happens, every action taken and word spoken are all by gods design and according to his plan?
There are some NT verses that claim god has a plan for us all and even fewer that talk of a "plan" in the Old Testament such as; "I have planned it, surely I will do it” . Isaiah 46:3-11.
Was me being born for instance, a part of " gods plan " , if so why do I not know about it by now? Will I even know about it?
Was Jesus being sent to earth to suffer and die also part of gods plan?
Is every act we witness in nature good and bad all part of gods divine plan?
Was the "plan" centered on individuals and not everyone, as Jeremiah 29:11 seems to suggest?
There are plenty of Christians that are forever talking about gods divine plan for us all and our purpose on this earth. But I fail to detect a plan at all in the erratic and unbalanced and at times, confusing world that I live in?
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@ethang5
Like I said, Jesus never once utters the words Christian, Christians or Christianity.
Your ideology is built on lies and is collapsing by the second. And your own church doesn't seem too concerned about the march of Islam all over the globe. And it won't be - turn the other cheek, love thine enemies - Christians like you that saves the west from this menace, that's for sure.
Cowards like you will be the first to bend to this menacing ideology just as you have for 2000 years bowed and prostrated yourself to a barbaric ancient god. You haven't woken up to the first or the second calling card at all have you. See " if he so loved the world" when Islam comes to town, princess.
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@ethang5
So you don't know what a spirit is either, neither do I.The difference between you an I is that I did not say I didn't know.
That is interesting. So, considering that you have successfully buried your friends the Reverend Tradesecrets embarrassment on matter B of P once again, will you share with us your knowledge and experiences of what a spirit actual is? And does the word spirit mean the same today as it did hundreds of thousands of years ago?
Incidentally, God being light (photons to you) is in the Dead Sea scrolls.
Yes and that was extremely interesting but you have already mentioned this twice now. You must have missed response.
And also in the dead sea scrolls is Jesus telling his followers to call him The Amen. All very Egyptian that , don't you think.
It is also in the dead sea scrolls where we read of the lovely Peter, AKA the lords "rock" saying to Jesus " let Mary leave us, for woman are not worthy of life”. .
This will be the same lovely St Peter from whence the Roman Catholic Church claim to have got their authority.
You really are a tolerate bunch aren't you, you Roman Catholics.
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@ethang5
@3RU7AL
Why are you posting this to me, Ethang 5 ? It looks like to me like the intended recipient was 3RU7AL
My personal opinion is of no importance here.
The importance of your personal opinion is the only reason I'm giving you my attention.
Then you're wasting your attention.
Strangely, it appears I value your opinion MORE than you value it yourself.
I do not find it strange that our value systems are different.
You're trying to say that your understanding and definition of "YHWH" is somehow, inexplicably, NOT your personal opinion??
I don't "try" to say things. I either say them, or I do not say them. Attempting to make my words mean something else by restating what you claim I'm "trying" to say is smarmy. I gave you what the Bible says. You can accept it or reject it.
Who's opinion are you FOLLOWING?
How does it matter to you?
And YES,(IFF) your "spiritual insight" is based purely on your personal, first-hand, unfalsifiable "direct experience" of what you interpret to be "YHWH"
(THEN) STOP PRETENDING YOUR "FAITH" IS LOGICALLY-COHERENT.
Ethan doesn't pretend. And your opinion is not fact.
In post #93 I told you, "the sheer silliness of your comments to the verses you asked for have convinced me you either aren't bright enough or sincere enough to be worth my time. If you're looking for someone to be silly with, you chose poorly with me."
I don't need, and didn't ask for, lessons or advice from you. I find you wholly incapable of teaching me religion, much less, logic. If you are looking for a student or disciple, I already have a mentor. Your little delusion that you have desirable knowledge is cute, but not really worth my time. If you want to discuss topics intelligently, fine, but if you only want to play "puff my ego", please find someone else. You will not like me.
A word to the wise.
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@ethang5
So I can take it that you don't have a clue how you became a Christianwill you wait till I post?Ok the floor is yours . Hurry up or leave.I'll do this instead.[Stephen has] mastered this trick, he cuts out the explanation and then claims you didn't have an answer. Many times his questions are nonsensical and they have no answer, and when explained the reason why the question was nonsensical he still avoids the explanation and claims "see! I was right, Christians run from my questions!" ....lol, IDK Ethan, I think Stevie might get coal for Christmas...
So you don't know how you became a Christian but you know the bible is the word of god. Well then why didn't you just say so.
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@zedvictor4
Some people are more gullible than others.....And some people just want to believe in a fantasy world.
I won't argue with that ,Vic.
But I am even more curios now, that there are people here defending their stance on god and these unreliable ambiguous scriptures that are full of half stories in the name of Christianity , but are failing miserably to explain how they actually became a Christian in the first place. Its as laughable as it is ridiculous.
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@Utanity
god will never choose you.
I can live..and die with that. Can you? So even someone as intelligent as you cannot tell me how you became a Christian.
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@ethang5
And you haven't offered anything to the contrary, have you, Princess?Lol. The bible has.
No it hasn't and neither have you . Are you sure that it isn't you that is "dead", you are coming across as pretty well spent to me.
The bible indicates Jesus was building an army, sunshine. I don't care that this revelation shoots holes in your indoctrinated beliefs. You just have to face facts. It was JEWS that he came ONLY to save, there wasn't a Christian in sight.
Jesus never once utters the words Christian, Christians or Christianity. Your ideology is built on lies and is collapsing by the second. And your own church doesn't seem too concerned about the march of Islam all over the globe. And it won't be - turn the other cheek, love thine enemies - Christians like you that saves the west from this menace, that for sure. You haven't woken up to the first or the second calling card at all have you. See " if he so loved the world" when Islam comes to town, princess.
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@ethang5
You simply cannot face the fact that the Prince of Peace says himself that he had not come to bring peaceHe also says you are dead and thus cannot understand His message.
And I know I am not Dead. I have just eaten a very nice Sunday dinner.
...and why is it that YOU Christians keep forgetting Jesus was a JEW that had been sent to gather the lost sheep of Israel?Jesus was sent FIRST to Israel. Your poor reading comprehension causes you the think Jesus was sent ONLY to Israel.
You missed the word "ONLY" There is no mention of his being sent to no one else but the JEWS. stop trying to rewrite the scripture. My reading is perfect Jesus himself says who he was ONLY sent to and it wasn't you Christians" was it? No you are not. Matthew 15:24 "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." <<<<< ONLY, that doesn't mean YOU!!!
Every baptized born again Christian is a Jew. But this thread is not about Jews is it?
Stop with your shite man! You really get desperate at times don't you.?
John 3:16
Yes, he loved the world so much that he was sent to unite and save Israel ONLY , gods chosen and ONLY treasured possession. the Israelite were all sons of god. YOU certainly wasn't.
And you haven't explained why Jesus - the Prince of Peace would want to create division and split the family unite?Because I don't have to explain the dumb things you think.
You mean you cannot because they are indeed vile divisive verses and unexplainable.
Well I am only repeating what the bible actually says...Those verses said nothing about hordes, or division, or hate, or family units, or to the teeth. All that stupidity is just you.
So then who was he addressing when he told people to sell their cloths to buy deadly weapons. Was he addressing Mary and Martha?
Well we read different numbers all the time.Because they are at different times and different places. Do I really have to tell you that Einstein?
Well that is just horse AND bull shit , isn't it, Einstein. We are talking Palestine under Roman occupation.
I was just giving you an opportunity to correct any mistakes I may have made concerning how large the following was of Jesus of the Prince of Peace was.do you think Jesus only spoke to the exact same number of people every time He spoke? Could that really be your expectation?
No. And this is why I have good reason to believe he had thousands of followers /hoards that he commanded to arm themselves with deadly weapons.
it sound to me like like he was building an army in the "wilderness".We know how it "sounds" to you. Luckily for us we can tell the difference between ignorant conjecture and scripture.
I don't think you can. Can you prove he wan't building an army, armed to the teeth when the biblical evidence suggests otherwise.
You haven't the foggiest clue how one becomes a Christian,
That's' why I started a thread on the subject . here>> https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5301-how-does-one-become-a-christian?page=1
yet you think you know the mission of Jesus?
I do. He was more than prepared to take what he believed was his by birthright and by force if needs be. He got preempted and died for what he believed was his by right
And you haven't offered anything to the contrary, have you, Princess?
Your boy was building an army to take a throne that he believed was his by right.And it took you to come tell us?
Yes, to those that have ears. And once again you haven't offered anything to the contrary, have you, Princess?
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EtrnlVw, wrote : Stevie might get coal for Christmas...
Which is more useful than a bucket of prayers that have gone unanswered for years on end. At least when I asked Santa for something I did get it!!!!
I can take it that you don't know how you became a Christian either.. the subject gets more fascinating with every post. Christian claiming to be Christians but not having a clue how they became Christians FKN hillarious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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@ethang5
In your personal opinion, what's a "SPIRIT"?ethang5 wrote: My personal opinion is of no importance here.
My my , dear o dear o dear. You are struggling today aren't you? Just like most days . So you don't know what a spirit is either, neither do I. Never spoken to one or seen one.
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@ethang5
So I can take it that you don't have a clue.will you wait till I post?
Ok the floor is yours . Hurry up or leave.
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@ethang5
You didn't accept my offer to shown you why I hate your got with either a short or long list of reasons and I can't blame you.You don't even know how one becomes a Christian.
That is why I started a thread about the matter. Here https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/5301-how-does-one-become-a-christian?page=1
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@Utanity
god new what my head was in the rite place and the rite space so he choosed me
How?
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@ethang5
Yet some do become Christians in the adulthood. This to me is a unexplainable phenomenon .Can anyone calling themselves Christian explain this phenomenon?You claim the know the bible and Christian doctrine but you don't know how one becomes a Christian?
That's correct. Do you? If you don't you may as well leave.
How did you become a Christian? Was it without your consent as a infant or were you an adult believing you knew your ` own mind '. I remember you telling us that you realised the bible was true because of something you had read but this doesn't answer how you actually became an actual Christian.
So I can take it that you don't have a clue . Why is no one surprised?
Ok now you can leave. Please.
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@ethang5
I am in England and you included England.Yes. I said you hate England. Here is what you said about England, "And I love my own country England although it is being turned into a complete and utter shithole..."
You must have missed the words "I LOVE" in that sentence but in your mind though it reads as "hate"., no fkn surprises there them. Can you see the word hate above? NO! of course you can't. But I do mention hate when it came to your god and offered to show you a book full of reasons why. You didn't accept and I can't blame you.
All the facts on Elvis shows and the Ali fight are online.So? Good.So the fact that you can recite them doesn't prove you were there.
Oh but I was , And you cannot prove otherwise. And I came away absolutely stunned at the sound and range of the man's incredible voice. He was a GOD with all caps.
NOW STOP DERAILING ANOTHER THREAD THAT YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!In this thread, You approached me in post #8.
Correct I addressed your comments. And you addressed my comment concerning my love for American , Americans and my own country England. That is where it ended for me but you went on some sort of ranting inquisition that is all unrelated to this thread, someone else's thread on which you are intent on creating an argument with me.
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@ethang5
Incidentally, God being light (photons to you) is in the Dead Sea scrolls.
And also in the dead sea scrolls is Jesus telling his followers to call him The Amen. All very Egyptian that , don't you think.
It is also in the dead sea scrolls where we read of the lovely Peter, AKA the lords "rock" saying to Jesus " letMary leave us, for woman are not worthy of life”. .
This will be the same lovely St Peter from whence the Roman Catholic Church claim to have got their authority.
You really are a tolerate bunch aren't you, you Roman Catholics.
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@Castin
I certainly personally believe that we are responsible for our own actions and the suffering of another person cannot bring you atonement. But does the Bible itself actually teach that we alone are responsible for our sins to the extent that there can be no substitutions?Then why, in the Old Testament, are there references to sacrificing animals as a "sin offering" to "make atonement"? The animal being sacrificed did not commit the sin being atoned for. Why does God instruct Aaron to place his hands on a scapegoat and transfer all the sins of Israel into the goat, then send it off into the desert?Of course the OT also does teach that God will punish sinners and that you'll reap what you sow and so on, so there is also a component of personal responsibility. My assessment would be that the Bible says you have personal responsibility but your sins can also be transferred in certain sanctioned transactions.
Why all the nonsense of atonement and killing animals for "sin" in the first place ?
Why is it that the all powerful god cannot simply say you are forgiven and I shouldn't have punished all of mankind forever for what someone else did a billion years ago?
How does killing a goat for instance excuse someone that has raped and murderer someones daughter? Why should such an animal have a place in a "heavenly paradise"?
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@Utanity
So a true christian doesnt pick the religion because then it wouldnt be true and you have to wait for when god he will choose you .
I see. Ok. And how did god choose you?
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@Castin
And he also says "blessed are the peacemakers" and "love thine enemy" and "turn the other cheek" and "all who live by the sword will die by the sword." The dude could vacillate between harsh and hippie.
Well when we consider what ancient Palestine was like under Roman rule(read Josephus). I am sure I would be saying one thing in the open and another behind their backs. When Jesus said "render unto Caesar" it must have sent the Galilean zealots into a frenzy. Their hatred of Rome and anything Roman is well documented and to pay tax to Rome was anathema to these cut-throat assassins.
Taken as a whole, Jesus seems to be saying that even though peace is the intent,
I think he was giving the diplomatic approach a chance. And had an army on standby. And he got cut down before he had a chance to use it. Just like the Baptist. This of course didn't save Jerusalem or the temple. The Romans finally had enough of the infighting of the many different sects and all hell broke lose.
his message will inevitably bring mixed and controversial reactions,
Indeed the mixed massages come thick and fast in these scriptures. Jesus did a lot in secret and was visited after dark in secrete by members of the council. One can only image these rich men were supporting and funding his cause.. and who can forget that he spoke one thing to the commoners and another "for those with ears".
potentially dividing households and turning children against their traditionalist Jewish parents.
Yes this is what rebellion causes. When one wants to change or upset the status quo. It also happens every time we approach an new age. Jesus and his disciples discussed the end of the age and the new age to come a few times. I believe this played a large part in Jesus'cause. and his claim to the throne.
And in the case where a person must choose between Jesus's message and their family, it is imperative that they choose his message.
It is never made clear what Jesus the Jew's message really was. But two claims he makes stand out from all of the rest don't they.
Matthew 10:34
“Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword"
Matthew 15:24 "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."
As we can see from above and what you have posted. I believe what was more important was that the JEWS to accept him as their rightful king , it was this that was more in contention. What has to be remembered is that the priests of the temple and the king were puppets, put into their lucrative positions by Rome.
It will be hard - a cross to bear - but it is righteous.
Whichever side one decided to take in those dangerous times was always going to run the risk of "bearing a cross" if one chose the wrong side?
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@ethang5
You cannot control me.
I know and I am not trying to.
But I am asking to either address my questions or please leave. You are contributing nothing at all to this thread - my thread.
have another go or simply leave. I am not interested in anything you have to say that doesn't address the OP.
Ready? then off you go :
Yet some do become Christians in the adulthood. This to me is a unexplainable phenomenon .
Can anyone calling themselves Christian explain this phenomenon?
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@Utanity
That doesn't explain how you became a Christian .Your rite but that is not what I saying because I did saying how I becamed a christian but you crossed it out and that is not being up the front. A true christian doesnt talking the porkes like your doing anyway.
So your a Christian but don't know how you became a Christian.
I am a Christian ( not a practicing one). I am among the many millions that had it foisted on them in infancy. My question seems to have escaped you. Have a go.
Yet some do become Christians in the adulthood. This to me is a unexplainable phenomenon .
Can anyone calling themselves Christian explain this phenomenon?
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@ethang5
You aren't even american and cannot legally vote.
I am in England and you included England.
All the facts on Elvis shows and the Ali fight are online.
So? Good.
If you left England to see the Ali fight, how old were you? Hmmm?
None of your business. But I will be 66 in a few months.
NOW STOP DERAILING ANOTHER THREAD THAT YOU HAVE ABSOLUTELY NO INTEREST IN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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