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Though stepping back, I guess I should just take TUF's incorrect reaction to my thoughts on the game so far as what they most likely are:
- From his perspective, he thinks that whenever I say that he's correctly read the game (as he did DP1), I am scum.
- It's a cognitive trip wire for him.
- Which complicates getting cooperation from the town.
- I suppose beating him with a stick would have been a better approach.
- Although I have repeatedly emphasized balance issue.
And if the above is true, then I'm back to taking Pie's results at face value.
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TUF has done a complete 180. He went from hard town-reading me when I was ambivalent to him DP1 before he claimed. Now, after he claimed and I stated the obvious balance issues his claimed role implicates, he now incorrectly claims I was trying to "buddy" him despite repeatedly emphasizing the balance.
Meanwhile, Pie seems to have forgotten the other half of his "dream," that frankly gives rise to my doubts as to whether he is even telling the truth. Those results provided the framework through which I've been viewing the entirety of DP1 and DP2 at this point in the game. Yet, the combination of his aggression and unidimensional focus makes me question whether one of his scum buddies just told him to fake claim dreamer. When there is a cop in the game. And a purported day cop.
Fake claiming dreamer is something within TUF's means. He is the only player within the bucket of plausible scum who could have told Pie that. They have been buddying. Why is TUF suspicious of me for trying to buddy him --- when I was doing no such thing --- yet he is not suspicious of Pie, who may as well have been riding TUF's dick since I've claimed.
I'm not trying to over-complicate. But I struggle to reconcile how Pie is playing with him being town. Even given his meta.
Though if I take Pie's results at face value, scum must be Oro and Speed.
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Actually no.
We are lynching Speed.
VTL Speed
I would be VTLing Pie for death without his claim.
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@FourTrouble
This has become the stupidest game of mafia I've seen.
TUF's reaction tells me that Speed is town, TUF is scum and scum are TUF and Oro.
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DP2-1 DEAD:
- Earth - (Jellal Hernandez) (Miller)
- Role mentions
- Ezra
- Zeref (Evil Wizard, Scum)
- Wendy
- RM - (Doranbalt) (Cop)
- Role provides no useful information
- Nor did his activity DP1
- Irritating from every angle
LIVING:
DREAMED: 1/3 Must be Scum
- coal - (Cana Alberona) (Drunk) (DP2-34) - TOWN
- Lunatic - (Juvia Lockser) (DP2-16) (Protector) (DP2-51; DP2-71) - TOWN
- Reasonable reads, even if inactive (DP1-292)
- Correct analysis in response to RM nonsense
- Examples Abound; he's reading the game, carefully
- ("Go look at any Coal scum game and any coal town game. In my opinion, he is extremely easy to read. Nothing about his behavior here indicates he is scum.") (DP1-310)
- ("That really hasn't been how he's played this game. Again read themeless. Dude OMGUS'ed my for 4 day phases and stopped trying to actually prettend to scum read. The fact that he is voting earth even after his back and forth with oro is a prime example of how he isn't doing this.") (DP1-310)
- As scum, he buddies me; but he's also objectively correct on my town meta
- I disagree with his read on my scum meta; but I am aware of what he thinks my scum meta is
- Very clear depth of thought; specific citations to my posts ("Even his post 133 where he")
- Speedrace - (Levy McGarden) (hider) (DP2-12) - SCUM
- DP1 - Conspicuously silent (see DP1-502)
NOT DREAMED: 1/4 Must be scum of MisterChris, Oromagi, Four Trouble & Whiteflame
- iLikePie5 - (Lucy Heartfilia) (Dreamer) (DP2-6) - TOWN
- Dream Results - Coal, Lunatic, and Speed (one of three is scum) (DP2-6)
- Dream results consistent with others' behavior; e.g., FT and Oro cannot both be scum per DP1-278
- His own behaviour erratic
- Scum read Pie and Lunatic DP1 (DP1-239) but somehow forgot this DP2
- Did not scum read me DP1
- But isn't it almost OP to give both a dreamer and a cop, and a "day cop" JOAT, unless cop was flavored and maybe that is implied by RM's justification?
- Just a thought. Working theory is that pie is town. Otherwise fuck this entire game.
- MisterChris - (Mirajane Strauss) ("Loved") (DP1-7) - PROBABLY TOWN
- Claims DP-1 town popular, presumably? And we haven't we confirmed him? Why can't we do that today?
- It's town-enough to get him out of the POE.
- "If it helps: my justification is that, due to my charm, I'm loved by all in my guild and I'm frequently on the cover of Sorcerer Weekly gaining me global adoration." (DP1-336)
- Hard scum reads FT
- oromagi - SCUM
- DP1-83 - Claims he claimed("I claimed my character in my first post but now I don't think we should hard claim characters until folks familiar with this theme advise on how closely connected character is to theme.")
- That is a flat out lie as far as I can tell ... Maybe I missed. If so, point me to where.
- Does not even identify his "character" in his reads list, despite doing so for others (e.g., DP1-290)
- DP1-20 - Offered to trade character for my character
- Potentially suggests scum were given fake claims, in view of later posts (e.g., DP1-168)
- Placed emphasis on whether characters have justifications
- He asked if I had a justification to begin with; Was shocked I had one; he presumably did not, based on Supa's incorrectly stated rules
- Implied he did not have a justification linking character to role; Implies his justification either doesn't link, or didn't have one at all
- DP1-25 - Irritating "list" of what are essentially non-reads
- No detail; just placed himself above "town" bar, indicating he is town
- (If Pie wasn't claimed character with useful results, I'd be hammering him on his demonstrable inconsistency in pressuring me DP2, while ignoring Oro in his entirety, despite the fact that he agreed Speed is most likely scum among "dreamed")
- Very evasive, see, e.g., DP1-143 and his failure to ever respond
- DP1-152 - Incorrectly claimed I thought confirming MisterChris was a waste of time; that was FT (e.g., DP1-156)
- FourTrouble - (Erza Scarlet) (DP1-207) (JOAT?); ("Day Cop") (DP1-162) ("I tried to protect RM last night by giving him an armor") (DP2-36) - TOWN
- Guilty on Earth, the Miller, before Miller claimed
- Miller was lynched, was Miller
- FT is either day role cop and lied as scum; or day cop and reported truth.
- Paranoid I and others think he faked being a "day cop"
- RM was a Cop. Balance issues.
- Claims to have given armor to RM, the cop, who sort of counterclaimed FT DP1 ... sort of
- Justifiable hard on to lynch Pie DP1 (see DP1-38 - DP1-142, remaining throughout, e.g. DP1-407)
- DP1-50 - My personal favorite of this set: "Your eye is untrained. Please trust."
- DP1-129 - My second personal favorite of this set: "Scum waste our time. Town scum hunt. It's clear which one Pie's doing."
- Note this trend continued to DP2, from pie
- That Pie has proven useful DP2 does not change the fact that FT's read on him is objectively correct; problem is that subjectively, this is pie being pie
- First game FT plays with Pie ever, I think; with predictable results
- Didn't get off this despite dreamer results; which, while understandable in view of behaviour, less so given context
- whiteflame - (Gray Fullbuster) (DP2-5) - TOWN
Really, we just need Oro's full claim. Then lynch speed.
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@ILikePie5
Smh.
Public announcement. If Speed flips town and I die, lynch Coal tomorrow for his refusal to answer questions from someone who he says is probably townIt was you who wanted reads from people before we lynch but you yourself don’t want to do it. Why is that?
1. I have explained why I wanted your reads DP1, and why I no longer care about them now; unless you have insight on either of the two salient issues at this moment. Those issues being: (a) TUF's role's balance implications, if there is a doctor in the game and/or alternatively in view of FT's non-clarified "armor" he provided to the cop (RM) last night. You considered neither of those in your premature determination that TUF is more "town" than me. It's not that I think you're buddying with him, so much as I am frustrated with the lack of depth in your posts; and (b) a coherent theory as to who from among the non-dreamed group I identified above is most likely to be scum, an issue you have remained silent on.
2. Your post 164 ("If Speed flips town and I die, lynch Coal tomorrow for his refusal to answer questions from someone who he says is probably town") is absurd, where (a) you have no idea what if any other additional results will present tomorrow, or how any further results today (that I anticipate will be disclosed before we lynch speed, or hope at least) would impact that analysis and (b) you have ignored the fact that the non-scum group may well present a more viable POE than the --- weak, almost to the point of vapidity --- position you have justifying why I should be lynched.
3. I have said why I understand the suspicion of the fact that I essentially claimed a town-roleblocker role. Rather than acknowledge it and move on, you have tunnelled me and accomplished less than nothing (other than cause added friction) in the course of doing so; while wasting my time asking me questions when you don't even have a coherent reason for doing so.
4. I want other people's reads, namely from TUF and the non-dreamed group, and will get to that when I am done wasting my time here.
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@ILikePie5
Oh goodie. Now that you've said your piece, do you have any intention of doing anything useful for the remainder of this day phase?
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And the fact that you placed any stock in RM's reads underscores my points above.
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Frankly, I don't even think you have a reason why you're asking me for what you're asking. It seems like you're just asking questions to ask questions. And that futility is why you should not expect a further response from me.
It's not enough to act like you're moving the ball forward. You need to actually do it. And you are not doing so.
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@ILikePie5
This aggression from you is misplaced and unhelpful. Aside from the fact that it is not moving the ball forward, it's pissing me off.
At this point I don't care about your reads because (1) the only reason I wanted them in the first place was to determine your affiliation on DP1 (which now is a moot issue, given your role as a dreamer); and (2) they were as FT correctly noted, internally contradictory if not nonsensical.
So that is why I am not asking. Not because I feel like I need to explain myself to you without getting something in return.
The only thing I care about are your results the next dayphase, and your vote on Speed at the appropriate time.
We both agree that that's the correct path forward for now, so there's little else to say unless you have worthwhile insight on the balance implications of TUF's role, or some worthwhile theory as to who is most likely to be scum among the non-dreamed group as above.
Make sense?
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There are eight living players:
1. oromagi
2. Lunatic
3. iLikePie5
4. MisterChris
5. FourTrouble
6. coal
7. Speedrace
8. whiteflame
Pie "dreamed" that one of Coal, Lunatic, and Speed are scum.
Assuming the results are reliable . . . . there are two groups: (1) the "dreamed" group; and (2) the not "dreamed" group.
- Dreamed Group - 1/3 must be scum:
- Coal - Town
- Lunatic - 2nd most likely scum (has not full claimed?)
- Speed - Most likely scum (of those "dreamed")
- Not Dreamed Group - 1/4 must be scum:
- FourTrouble - Town
- whiteflame - Town
- MisterChris - Possible town (confirmable town?)
- oromagi - Most likely scum (of those not "dreamed")
(Excluding Pie, the dreamer, who is town).
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@ILikePie5
Based on what we know you’re 2nd most likely to be scum. Your role is a common scum role. Your reasoning behind selecting WF doesn’t make sense. You’re in my results. RM was confident you’re scum.
Second most likely to be scum overall, or second most likely from your pool of three?
Clarify your intent in that statement.
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@ILikePie5
Or so he claims.
FT also claimed the ability to protect.
There may well also be a doctor.
So, three people you dreamed.
If we lynch one and that person is town, the remaining two could be either town or scum.
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@ILikePie5
I think I know my role better than you.
List the people who you "dreamed," all three.
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@ILikePie5
Do you understand how the dreamer role works?
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@ILikePie5
However clear that may be. We need to evaluate. Not enough to just jump the gun here.
I want every person to weigh in. We have a wagon on speed and that is enough for now. Do not want to rush this.
Need reads from all players, too. In light of night phase. Including Speed.
As obvious as this may be, if we mislynch today this is going to fuck up the rest of the game and that can be avoided by being deliberate and methodical.
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I agree my role confirms WF did not perform the NK. This is useful for reasons that should be clear.
- The lynch for today is between speed and lunatic. I am not willing to lynch Oro today. Maybe tomorrow, depending on further dreamer results.
- On them, I could go either way. But I lean towards speed.
- Lunatic's perception of my night actions is objectively reasonable. Even though it makes me suspect. This is what town should be doing.
- Lunatic's claim seems more believable to me than Speed's.
- I do not understand how both Lunatic's and Speed's roles are in the game; though I think mine could co-exist with either.
- Speed's inactivity yesterday doesn't look good for him.
- I understand why lunatic and FT takes issue with the strategy for my night action.
- Lunatic's statements to this end make me think he is more likely to be town.
- Though it only played minimally into my thinking for my action last night, I entertained a theory yesterday where WF is scum.
- Given that I essentially claimed a role that tends to be scum-sided, and given that despite this it has some utility; I do not understand why people would be skeptical of my trying to avoid looking like scum.
- Pie's response to my claim is basically what I expected from everyone.
- I am a stronger candidate to lynch in all possible alternative worlds, imo.
- Outside of potentially scum-reading me for (1) claiming a conventionally scum-sided role; and (2) being worried about how that will be perceived, I do not understand what FT is thinking this DP.
- FT acts as if he should be unquestionably town-read by all, including me. I'm sure he feels that way.
- I still town read him, though his reactions to my thinking that he fake claimed the day cop results is irritating.
- Further discussion of this topic is a waste of time. The results from last night moot this issue.
- Again, I struggle to envision a world where Pie as scum fake claims dreamer and identifies three people as he has here.
- FT's focus on Pie is a waste of time and resources.
- I previously said FT's town read on Oro was premature. I stand by that.
Parting thoughts:
- If anyone has results that can help the decision between speed and lunatic, this would be a good time to speak up.
- It goes without saying that the doc should be on Pie.
VTL Speed
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@FourTrouble
If he saisd that, then I missed it. I don't know this theme.
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@Lunatic
My hope was that with some suspicion of me yesterday, someone would track me to the non-event, as evidence that I'm not scum-sided. Seemed the least risky thing to do, given predictable nonsense about how the drunk is essentially a town role-blocker.
I was pretty sure WF didn't have a power role and wouldn't be night killed. FT would have been my night kill if I was scum.
I also tunnelled Oro enough yesterday. If I was wrong and scum killed him, and I was tracked to him ... that would be a problem for me.
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@SirAnonymous
Fair enough. You do you.
I am an obsolete energy source, as my name suggests.
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@ILikePie5
So ... we really have to have this conversation again?
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@SirAnonymous
Yes. I could be totally off. Probably am. But you seem like the type from say ... one of the more conservative schools in Texas.
But there's a lot of debaters in Texas. So who knows.
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@Theweakeredge
Yes, I also have this tendency to forget that we're in 2021.
Even though we're more than 4 months in, it still feels like we're right back where things were this time last year.
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Clearly I don't pay very close attention to people on here ...
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@Theweakeredge
I think I got you confused with someone else. I just realized you're 16.
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@Theweakeredge
I thought you were in college?
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@SirAnonymous
Fair enough. You seem like a high school debater. From Texas.
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The way these claims have presented suggests to me that mafia were given fake claims.
Potentially with justification. Potentially not.
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I struggle to envision the world where Pie fake claims dreamer, regardless of who potential scum partners would be.
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@FourTrouble
It would be premature for you to conclude Lunatic is town.
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Drunk makes someone drive them home. It's a night-action blocking role.
Based on TUF's claim I'm more inclined to lynch him. Passive protective role seems to throw off balance more than a hider would. But Hider would be a good claim. So Speed isn't out of the hot water.
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@FourTrouble
Oro, or one of the other two hw dreamed. I'm still considering between TUF and Speed.
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@FourTrouble
Unless he is lying, dreamer is a powerful role. Consider this in your vote for pie.
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@Theweakeredge
Evolution, the big bang, etc - what science currently thinks of the natural world - and I would agree that yes - it is typically accurate. Is this your idea of an interview? Because if it is I'll have to stop here. I said I would, if and only if, you gave me a solid number of how many questions there were.
This isn't an interview. This is me asking you questions about the answers you gave to your questions.
I've been busy today. Haven't been able to put much thought into what questions I'd ask. But this is helping form the contours.
The science/consensus question was because when I answered that question myself, I didn't know what you were referring to. Science has consensus on a lot of things. It's very broad. And sometimes that consensus changes, though sometimes it stays the same. We break new ground every day; and often the things we thought were true, turn out not to be so.
There was, for example, once a scientific consensus that you could divide the races based on their relative IQ scores. White progressives up until the 1950s in fact made arguments for restricting people's reproductive rights based on their being feeble minded, including based on race. Only in the later part of the 20th century did we realize that there may be other factors in play for IQ scores, particularly when you fractionate them based on race.
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@Theweakeredge
Those are complicated issues. The victim/oppressor power-dynamic isn't always straightforward, though?
What about Koreans being discriminated against by blacks, and made the victims of hate crimes by blacks in LA?
Or Muslims executing gay people, repressing women in absolutely barbaric ways and forcing their religion on others through violence?
The intersectionalists seem to have figured this out, but they haven't taken the idea to its natural extension (at least not yet). When they do, they'll come back full circle to individualism.
But for the sake of argument, let's say we agree that all those things are problems and you get to decide how to fix them. How do you go about doing that?
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@Theweakeredge
9. Do you believe that the current scientific consensus is accurate in regards to the description of reality?Yes
What is "the current scientific consensus" that is "accurate in regards to the description of reality"?
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@Theweakeredge
7. If you were to list the positions most integral to your political identity - what would they be? (listed from least to most important)Encouraging protest, opposing oppression, and allowing social movement to change our sociopolitical environment
Protest of what? And why?
8. If you were to list the top 4 positions which you most agree with, what four would they be?1. Universal care - as in - providing enough food, water, shelter, clothing, education, and electricity for people to live or the money for everyone to have these resources2. Equality act - where industries are forced to give every individual rights that they need to live, thrive, and prosper - not deriving individuals of rights based on identity3. Reparation of Oppressed People - including Individuals of Native American Japanese, and African descent for what America has done to them4. The combination of capitalism and marxism ideology in our economic theory of America
Why do you think that groups, as opposed to individuals, suffer collective injury based on their having some identity?
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Actually nvm... pie is the dreamer.
I only scrolled.
Fine.
I am Cana Alberona. While in some cases I am outgoing, the vast majority of the time I am drunk ... infamous for my high alcohol tolerance. Because I am drunk all the time, I am the Drunk. I select someone to drive me home in the night phase.
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If whiteflame, Chris, Pie or lunatic can provide me with a good reason why I should claim; I will.
But I see neither a reason, nor utility, in doing so at the present time.
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