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@AdaptableRatman
You are Chief moderator on a site that lets an open white suoremacist operate and have Hitler pfp and defame you saying you insisted on it.It is a complete and utter deep betrayal to your heritage to let him do that. No, I do not take it back.
I'm not expecting you to take your perspective back and I don't know where you're getting that.
I've already responded to WyIted saying that I insisted on the Hitler pfp, but no, I'm not going to ban him or delete his messages just because he's trolling me over it.
I will, however, argue that it is not a "betrayal of [my] heritage" to let people post as they have. I just fundamentally don't agree that it affects my heritage at all.
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@That2User
So, a couple of bits of feedback on this game:
Generally speaking (exceptions for CCs and SOP claims) if no one’s pushing you to claim, don’t claim. True whether you’re town or scum, but particularly important if you’re faking a claim. I thought when you mentioned your choice that you were just picking one in case you were pushed, but didn’t expect you to claim the way you did. Bad luck on the choice, but I think we could have worked out a better claim if we’d taken more time.
Also, much as it’s frustrating to get CC’d like this, that doesn’t mean it was the end of the game for you. I would have appreciated if you’d continued to bounce ideas back and forth with me in the scum chat after you’d been eliminated, and instead I ended up largely talking to myself. I do that regardless (anyone who’s been scum with me knows I tend to just write out my thoughts not expecting any specific feedback sometimes), but as someone who has fucked up their claim as scum multiple times and gotten eliminated early, it hasn’t stopped me from trying to assist in the game going forward, even if it didn’t amount to much.
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@Mharman
Yeah, the long and short of it was that I just didn’t have any info to go off of beyond what we were informed about from the PM snafu. We were told not to claim Miller or Ascetic, though that didn’t do much to help when I got pushed to claim. I guess I should have just risked it with a protective claim, but I had no way to know that was free and clear at the time.
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@Mharman
I overcomplicated things at the end. You just fucked up bigly. Sad!
Lol, it was fun to watch your thought process. Anyway, I’ll give thoughts in the endgame, but being called out basically at random by Mikal and having a number of people pile on to start really didn’t help. It was either make a big gamble and likely get CC’d or try this.
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@AdaptableRatman
So is Wylted towards Whiteflame when he claims WF asked him to have a Hitler pfp but WF seems too afraid to stick up for his people and yes I say that personally. If I were in WF's position Wylted would be perma'd. 0 hesitation.
Contrary to your opinion on the matter, rising to every instance of someone saying something negative about Jews, the Holocaust, or posting a picture of Hitler is not necessary to ensure that “my people” are stuck up for. We’ve dealt with far worse.
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Yep, honestly shocked it took that long.
Sorry Luna, but I was actually called pretty early for just straight up claiming my role and I pretty much did just that. Didn’t mean I was necessarily scum based on that alone, but I’m not surprised I got called for it. Was considering claiming BG, which would have worked in retrospect, but I had no way of knowing there wouldn’t be any protective roles.
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@Lunatic
At this point, I'm just kind of baffled. It's possible that one of my RBs was prevented, but that would be pure speculation at this point. That just leaves Moozer, who was Copped innocent (and That2's flip suggests it's unlikely that was manipulated) and Banana. I guess she'd be my sus, but her reticence to just use her double voter to end me helps her case. Still, probably the one with the least support since she'd just be role confirmed.
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@Lunatic
Wow I really thought it was Wylted. So it’s either mharm or Whiteflame. Whiteflame who did you roleblock? Please don’t say banana….
I targeted you. I did check with Bullish about it and he told me I would not be informed of my RB’s failure, but I believe it went through. Figured it was best to eliminate you as an option, so at least I believe I did that much.
Nonetheless, I’m the clear lynch this DP so here we are.
VTL Whiteflame
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@WyIted
Nah, that ain't me. FWIW, though, doesn't bother me.
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I am still assuming WyIted is town, though I'm pretty sure he is.
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...alright, looks like this DP basically ended while I was busy. I'm good being the auto-lynch next DP.
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@WyIted
Just ask him if he forced me to change my profile pic, here I will do itWhiteflame, did you tell me my last profile pic was inappropriate and force me to change it to this?
I mean, I stated that you should change your profile pic because it defied site rules. I didn't tell you to change it to Hitler.
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@Lunatic
Btw I noticed you say you scum read me. It’s not like I expected you to town confirm me for defending you, but I’m really curious what you think my motivation as scum would be for doing it, because my stance hasn’t changed and I could easily waffle my read here to take advantage of a mislynch if I was scum lol
I can't say I'm scumreading anyone all that clearly at this point, I'm mainly just functioning based on PoE. If we're talking purely behavior, I have no reason to scumread you at all, but I'm reevaluating my reads based on the information we have and I was pretty convinced last game that Mharman was town based chiefly on his behavior. That's made me skittish about my behavioral reads.
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I'll go with whatever plan the majority supports at this point. I didn't recall that Pie used his role on Moozer, so yeah, that would put him in the likely town camp.
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@WyIted
If scum refrain from an NK to hide, then they’re putting themselves in a pretty terrible position for the sake of surviving one more DP. Town block’s only getting bigger at this point. So no, I don’t think scum can risk a night without an NK and if they do, I’d say that’s still good for town.
The only other player I see left as a plausible scum is Moozer. The Vanilla claim doesn’t really swing one way or the other for me, and he’s just generally played null the whole game. I think he’d be more active as scum based on previous games, but PoE’s basically down to you three, and I could see lynching either Moozer or Luna first at this point. Kind of preferring Moozer, but it’s not a big difference.
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In terms of reads, I guess I’m putting PoE down to WyIted and Luna as well. The latter has mainly been based on a behavioral read that I think still holds, but it’s not as strong as an un-CC’d Cop. WyIted’s Miller claim with the GF flip definitely helps his case, as he’d have to be pretty sure town didn’t have a Miller to go with that fake claim knowing there’s a Cop on the table, but I’d say that’s an outside chance.
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Well, seems like everyone’s decided on this overnight. I’d have preferred to at least use the RB one more time to reduce PoE before this, but with only one scum in the game, we can risk more mislynches and at least we town confirm Mharman.
Good luck next DP, guys.
VTL WF
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@Mharman
It’s late and I’m fading fast. May not stay awake until you and Pie claim, but I’ll pick back up in the morning.
I appreciate the ping, not a lot to respond with. I know my claim is sus and it makes sense that it would be. As for why Mikal was picked, seems like he was widely townread and if scum had any inkling that he was an investigative role, he was a pretty obvious target.
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@Lunatic
Why don’t you both just claim at the same time? Doesn’t need to be a d1ck measuring contest. Both of you prepare your claim and post it at exactly 11pm. Whoever is late posting will be viewed at as scummy.
Yeah, this is all starting to get a bit much. I'm fine with them just claiming simultaneously.
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@ILikePie5
@Mharman
Well, looks like Banana took point on this one and already claimed. So yes, I would like Pie's next.
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@Mharman
I'd prefer you go last given the RB. Between Banana and Pie, I don't have a preference who goes first.
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@ILikePie5
I’m open to it, though right now, Whiteflame reeks
I figured my role would almost definitely be sussed, so I'm not surprised. I'm trying to make the most of it while I can.
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@ILikePie5
Why did you target Mharman?
He was one of a small number of players (him and Moozer) who I had a null read on going into the NP. He also apparently had a townread on That2 up until the moment they got CC'd, which I felt was odd.
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@Lunatic
Interesting I also targeted mharman last night. Maybe we should full claim everyone today.
Figures, and based on your role claim, it looks like that removed any possibility of you receiving a result. Ugh.
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@ILikePie5
You need to reveal your abilities at this point
That was the plan.
My other roles are 2X RB and 1X Bus Driver.
Figured that last one would just go unused (always seems to be anti-town even in the best of hands). Now that we’re down to one scum, the RB is a lot more useful anyway, since it could prevent the NK. I used it on Mharman last night and the NK still went through, so he’s very likely town.
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@That2User
...alright then. Seems like this DP at least will be pretty straightforward. I didn't like how readily That2 jumped on my wagon from the outset with little to no reason or that initial post (has it just become common practice among a set of players to just assert they are town?), but both could have been null behaviors. Claiming what appears to be a very common and prominent jet fighter and getting CC'd for it trumps everything.
VTL That2
Also, since I'm back and I've eaten a meal, some more thoughts on the remaining players I didn't cover:
Pie - Slight town read. Much of his behavior is null, but the town lean comes from his long back-and-forth with Luna which comes off as town vs. town. I initially didn't know how to read the decision to sheep Mikal, but I just don't see scum Pie taking a backseat voluntarily. Just not his style. I know he likes to scumhunt as town, but I can see him taking a different tack after the Russian Mafia game.
Luna - Slight town read. Again, it's mainly due to this back-and-forth. He does know my scum play better than most so it makes sense that he's taking this stance and arguing this way, all comes off as pretty straightforward town to me behaviorally.
Moozer - He mentioned the PM issue and there's just not a whole lot I can do with that without learning more. Null for now.
Mharman - He's chimed in a few times and provided varying sets of reads that jumped all over the place with That2's CC. Not much I can make of it right now. Null.
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@Mharman
hooray for the shitbox lol
*sigh* hooray indeed
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Car issue’s largely resolved. Going to eat something and then catch up again.
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Aaaand now my car’s engine isn’t turning over. Great, loving this day. This might be a while and I’m going to save my phone battery as much as I can at this point, so forgive me if I’m not responsive much of today.
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I’m with my wife at the stables this morning before heading back to work, so I can’t type up reads as I normally do until later.
For now, I’ll just say that I think it’s very likely Mikal is town (I do think he would either have torpedoed himself or been swapped out if he rolled scum, but his aggressiveness this game and the information he’s strongly suggested he has seem as overtly town as I’ve ever seen from him), which makes me also want to townread Moozer based on some PM issue that has been mentioned.
Banana strongly implying F-16 makes it pretty likely she’s town assuming no weird theme split.
I also townread WyIted, mainly because of the Miller claim. I modded a game recently where he and Supa went with fake claiming Miller and it bit them hard, so he’d have to be pretty secure in that choice for him to try it again.
I’ll give more detailed thoughts on others when I have a computer to use.
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@Mharman
JOAT is my first problem. Idk what mod put a commuter w a JOAT, much less with a manipulative role. First impression is that is looks like a slap-dash fake claim.
It certainly isn’t a first for me to see a manipulative role on town, though I’ll admit the Commuter is an odd inclusion. As scum, I avoid fake claiming a JOAT especially this early when my roles can be easily CC’d. I’ll claim my other two roles if needed, as I do think town can get some value off of one in particular, though I’d prefer to claim them after I get to use at least one.
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@ILikePie5
What is your justiifcation
The justification references the three engines the jet has, it’s being huge, and gives a couple of different likely focuses of its functionality. It specifies range and stealth, which makes sense given my other roles.
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Fine, if this is going to be a sticking point, then I'll just claim.
I'm the J-36, a next-gen fighter developed in China which is notable for its engines and an apparent focus on range and stealth. I'm a JOAT. I'd prefer to keep some of my roles to myself, but there are three and they include a 1X Commuter and at least one manipulative role.
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Since it’s apparently been mentioned, I’ll at least give this much: I’m a fighter jet.
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@Mikal
Still running around. I’m not going to straight up claim just because I tend to be more active. I’d be happy to start a round of soft claims if that’s the direction we want to take, though my efforts in that department weren’t well taken last game. If you have ideas, I’m all ears.
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@Mikal
Hey now, there’s someone I haven’t seen in a while. How have you been Mikal?
Fair reason to sus me. Kanye clearly knows his stuff.
Anyway, this is just a check-in until I get more of a chance to give thoughts. Running around a good deal this evening.
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@Lunatic
Honestly, I’m surprised you were the only one that was sussing me by that point. Figured I wouldn’t be able to escape it all game.
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@iamanabanana
Oh and I’ll hype up Banana as well. Part of the reason I just acceded to pushing someone else was that it sincerely felt like she was behaviorally town by that point. Should’ve been more willing to push Mharman and she had good reasoning for it. Also, good way to partially fake your claim.
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Well, my analysis was dead wrong. Probably would have ended up lynching Earth without it anyway, but I thought I had something there and I was clearly barking up the wrong tree. Ah well.
Mharman definitely had me fooled much of this game, got town vibes from him much of the game so well done there. Cerulean I was constantly leaning scum on during and after DP2, but it never felt like I had enough to go off of. Should’ve taken Banana up on her offer to push him DP3, but I doubt we could have convinced Moozer to change tacks.
Anyway, well done to scum. Earth, I’d really love to be able to townread you one of these games but it always feels like you’re leaving out much of your thinking and only giving partial information about your role.
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@AdaptableRatman
How can gentiles enter Shamayim?Without Christianity what code of ethics can they follow? 7 laws of Noah only?
Not my area of expertise, dude.
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@Sir.Lancelot
I’m not super well-versed in this, but I do believe the 3 messianic prophecies are a good counter-reason.Is this true?
I mean, that's a factor. It's not like Orthodox Jews have a monopoly on the belief that the messiah has not come yet, though that belief isn't really a factor in my faith.
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Nothing really to add. Whatever happens happens.
VTL Earth
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Alright, seems like this is the path we're going down at this point and I don't have much to add to what I've already posted. I won't vote just yet, but I want to get out these lingering reads.
If Earth's scum, that strongly suggests that Banana is town. Could just be them putting distance between themselves, entirely possible this is all one large gambit on their part, but that's not what I think is happening.
My read on the choice between Mharman and Cerulean is relatively weak by comparison, I just don't have as much reason to sus either of them, but I'd revisit that decision next DP at least to some degree. Cerulean's my pick between the two of them right now. I've largely been on the same page with Mharman this game (notably not the result of his just following my lead, as I was often following his early on) and I don't see his decisions as scummy so much as they are protective of the information he had for weak reasons. Cerulean by contrast has just been much more passive this game and I think the lack of interaction between his role and mine makes me sus him just a little more. It's not a lot to go off of, but I have a hard time believing that Pie has put both his role and WyIted's in this game along with mine. Don't like mod psych, but it's something I have to consider at this point.
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Alright, so we're at just over 6 hours remaining at this point. The choice this DP is between Earth and Banana for me, which makes it all the stranger that, despite them both sussing each other, they are not each other's strongest susses.
I've spoken with Banana at length and she's made clear that Mharman is her pick. I get that I'm the one who mentioned the Redirector and how roles could have been manipulated, but it's still strange to me that she's pushing what I view as a decent but not terribly strong behavioral read on Mharman over a result on Earth. I get that this sus goes back to DP2 so this is hardly new, I just don't understand why it overrides her own result, even if she mistrusts it. If I got that kind of result, I'd at least be spending a great deal of time interrogating my target to focus on their behavior and see if there's more to it, but maybe that's just me.
Earth picked Cerulean. Given that he should know he didn't target Luna, even if he believes a Redirector affected results, that can really only be true for either his role or Banana's. The nature of the role Earth has claimed and the result he received certainly puts Cerulean in his sights, though that should be basically the same for Banana unless he has some greater reason to believe that she was the target of manipulation. For that matter, both he and Banana should just be sussing the existence of the other since, at least to some degree, they're virtual CCs in a game where we already have a Cop flip. That's a lot of investigations and the absence of a protective role doesn't explain why Pie would be willing to give town so many means to find scum.
The more I keep reading into what's gone on, the less decided I am, and the more I keep trying to understand their perspectives, the more lost I feel. That being said, we don't have a lot of time to sort this out, so I'll just go with the majority on this one. We have a vote on Earth. If that's the consensus view, then I'll vote with it.
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Doesn't look like there's anything new to address. If everyone else wants to lynch Earth, I'll go along despite my misgivings. I'll post my vote tomorrow regardless.
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