whiteflame

I'm with you on Speed trying to get lynched, which generally seems strange to me because I can't figure out how this behavior makes sense for him unless he's a TP, especially if he's a mime like we were. He's clearly being pretty guarded about having to claim, which, if I assume he's town, suggests to me that he has a power role that he doesn't want to reveal. I'm still tempted to push for at least a partial claim from him. How does everyone currently on the vote feel about just getting the character claim, or would people not be satisfied with anything short of a full claim?

I'll decide what I'm doing tomorrow morning. I'd like to get at least some more people talking in here before we end the DP, but that may be wishful thinking.

Unless I get a good reason to change my mind, I don't have anyone solid to VTL.

I'd consider it, esp. considering that we've already lost Mikal. 

Well, then your timing was surprisingly coincidental.

I honestly just picked a random noob and she posted shortly thereafter. Considering she hadn't posted at all before that, it shouldn't be a surprise that I'm suspicious of the timing, especially when she claimed to have just finished catching up.

More like careful. I read Lunatic's post #270 and rethought my position. I found myself sort of buying into Mikal's narrative and having someone else provide an external perspective forced me to reevaluate mine.

Well, that was oddly quick. Must be a coincidence that you just happened to finish reading shortly after I mentioned you. 

Who did you have in mind? Don't think Crystalynx has posted yet.

All this being said, I'm still torn on whether I see Speed as slight scum based on all this or null. At the moment, I'm leaning towards the latter. I think anyone would be frustrated by being forced to defend themselves from the kinds of claims Mikal was making, and even pushing the view that he was the Jester makes sense in that light. For now, I'll unvote until I have stronger reason to shift my perspective back.

Also, I'm not going to sit here and argue back and forth the merits of your choice in accusation. I don't think it made sense, and so far, your responses haven't convinced me that it was a move you would reasonably make as town, given all the available evidence.

For me, a character claim would be sufficient. If your goal is to hide your role, I'd understand that much, but no matter your role, your character shouldn't give it away completely.

You claimed pretty hard. Saying that it's the only thing that made sense of his actions and ignoring the character claim doesn't sound like you were just suggesting a possibility.

I won't pretend to know how you should have engaged with him, though I would have certainly done it differently, but there's a big difference between suggesting that Jester is a possibility and claiming that that's what he was.

I'm honestly not sure, but trying to redirect attention to Mikal certainly didn't make you look great. I was outright willing to dismiss the Discord evidence because, frankly, I think it's circumstantial and not all that informative. I also just generally don't like to use evidence taking place outside of the game. That being said, I now am reading you as behaviorally sus based on your responses. That's why I voted for you. Claim.

I don't agree at all, but it is a moot point. 

It did not make any sense beyond the assertion itself. He wasn't mafia, he just got modkilled for outing himself, but if he was trying to do that, he wouldn't have claimed a character that prominent who clearly does not fit the Jester role. I don't care whether you think it works behaviorally or not (personally, I think if Mikal wanted to be lynched, it wouldn't have been at all difficult), it didn't make any logical sense based on the information we had.

Look, there are a lot of things still up in the air, but Mikal being Jester isn't one of them for me. Unless he got a fake claim as Jester, Mai is not a safe choice because she's one of the most prominent modern waifus and because she would be a very strange choice for Jester in the first place. I'm barely familiar with Rascal Does Not Dream of Bunny Girl Senpai and its leads, but I am familiar enough to know that her profile doesn't exactly scream Jester. Supa would really have to be engaging in some fuckery to make that work.

Not inclined to lynch either you or Mikal, but I don’t suspect he’s the Jester, either. Don’t have a strong read on him yet, but if his goal was to get lynched early, he would have had easier routes to do so than this. 

Always the seer, man, always the seer. And no, I don’t buy your clipped screenshot is evidence of anything substantial.

Took a bit, but I’m caught up, and... yeah, I call BS on this supposed evidence from Elm. It’s pretty circumstantial even if it’s real, and it’s also the kind of play I’ve grown to expect from him to call out something that may or may not have even happened, so I don’t buy it.

Well, you think you do. We’ll see how well that holds up. Learned a lot from this game.

I figured if anyone had a read on me, it was you or Speed. I knew who the other scum were by DP3, but by then it was too late to do much about it.

Town didn’t win, though I am glad for you that you survived to the end.

Btw, I know I fucked up in the end there, but given my choices up to that point, I wasn’t likely to beat back the accusation. Just went for a ridiculous Hail Mary that I knew wouldn’t work before I did it.

Not that it matters much at this stage, but Supa, Danielle and Ragnar.

Yes, and if you'd have lynched me, that would have also thrown the game to mafia, so it's a lose-lose.

The lynch on Elm was practically guaranteed after you outed him. I gave hints where I could of who the mafia is without overplaying my hand, but I couldn't stop that lynch. 

Says the mason who has a trusted cop on his side that could also vote to lynch me at any point if he/she trusted the results of that investigation. If I was town and one or more scum wasn't on (hard to believe, I know), they wouldn't risk voting to lynch me before they could get a lynch off. They have no reason to out themselves. But hey, keep that finger on the button. Makes it easier for mafia to win.

If other people believe those results strongly enough, then I will. I think that would be a mistake, but far be it from me to guide everyone else in the right direction when you're so adept at pushing them down the wrong one. If you want to force a claim, force it through more votes, though I don't think you'll be happy with the result.

Again, if you want me to claim, get more people to push me to do it. I'm not claiming based solely on a manipulated cop claim.

I think you're too reliant on the results of this cop. Regardless of likelihood, there are 3 mafia left. If you think you can risk a mislynch based solely on information you've received from a cop, which may be manipulated by mafia in any number of ways given that Lunatic made any number of tweaks to the roles on your list, then I guess you should just lynch me. Great way to hand the game to the three scum that are left.

That's not a massive difference in likelihood. You're dismissing a plausible scenario just because it's a little less likely than that the cop nailed two non-town targets in a row?

Didn't say it was impossible, and I don't see how referencing a previous game somehow makes it more believable.

I'll claim if I get pushed into it, but none of you are going to like the result. And even if it's mathematically less likely, it's still plausible, esp. given the smaller number of people. Realize that they only had 4 possible targets.

"Just that good"? Come on, dude, random chance is one thing, but let's not pretend that you figured something out when that something doesn't exist. I'm not going to full claim unless there's good reason to do so. One vote based on faulty evidence is not good reason.

I agree that that's possible, but I don't think it's the most likely reason for this.

Alright, this is ridiculous. Clearly, someone in mafia is manipulating the results of your partner's investigations. They know that there's a cop around and targeted me to give you an apparent easy lynch. Much as I don't side with SupaDudz on you being scummy, think about this for a second: your partner got two guilties on consecutive nights. Do you really think that that's just luck, or do you think it's more likely that you're both being manipulated into a mislynch?

I can understand Draft wanting to keep who the cop is a secret up to this point, but considering that they should have 3 confirmed town now, that should make picking a target a lot easier this DP if they use it right. That, of course, assumes that he's telling the truth about his role.

I was just thinking about that. We'll have to see who Draft "recruited" this round. At this point, he should theoretically have 2 people that can verify his claim.

I believe I said you didn't post much, not that you didn't contribute. Still can't get a good read on you.

Huh. Looks like both Elm and Pie were leaving out pieces of their roles, though the former revealed too late and the latter was technically right about themselves up to that point. I guess since Elm was a TP, we know that the correct statement from DP1 was:

"There is 3 mafia and 1 non-joint winning third party in this game"

Guess we still have 3 mafia to deal with.

Busy as well, need a bit to finish up work and then I’ll read through the most recent stuff.

Best to Brit, Lunatic.

I don't think you're buddying Elm. Doesn't mean I'm not sus of you.

Love you too, bud.

Right there with you. Never seen him as scum, and the only game I've ever played with him was the last one, so I haven't even seen much of his play period. He's the most uncertain of my scum reads.

I guess thanks for the backhanded compliment?