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@zedvictor4
Revelation is simply theo-speak.
“Develop” originally meant to “unwrap” or reveal. This is how I am looking at the word.
So, both male and female remain procreationally functional for as long as their innate programming prescribes, though latterly, we have concluded an optimal range, not solely relative to physical ability but more to do with modern socio-economics, life expectancy and medical intervention.
As I said, the optimum range is 18 to 35, although women can continue having children until they are 40 or 45. I don't believe a woman needs to wait until she has a career to have children. In fact, I believe she should choose children. It is ideal for a woman to have at least four children.
They are, because they have access to more information.
Yes. I am asking about the richness and depth of the information in their heads. I am sceptical. It seems to me that they are not using the tools available to us as well as they could be. I believe that the internet is a wonderful thing and I use it to discover things and find information. It is also important to read books, which provide a deeper story or deeper insight than articles that you read online. I am 25, Zed. I know what the youth are saying and doing, and it does not reflect deep knowledge. They are very ignorant of history (you appear to concede), politics, and practical matters. It is not only history, religion, philosophy, and politics that they don't know about. The tools we have, including internet and AI, can be used to gain extraordinary knowledge and insight, but I do not see them doing it, and you need to devote more than a couple of seconds to it.
Which isn't to overlook the fact that modern expectations, can place greater demands upon intellectual ability...But this will vary, relative an individuals acquired expectations...In short, some just think mobile phone and sex, whereas others think university and astrophysics.
“University” is very broad, while the field astrophysics is much less broad. Many of them are not studying worthwhile degrees in university. They are studying degrees that should not be degrees. Most are thinking about their mobile phone and sex. I am looking for deep thought, questioning thought, and real thought.
Show me a generation that does not have a modified few to that of a previous generation, and a somewhat despairing view of modernity and inevitable change apparent in successive generations...It's the same old story.
The changes in the last 100 years, particularly last 50, have been rapid and unprecedented. That people tend to lament the past does not make them not worth listening to this instance.
Whereas you seem to invest time and energy dragging your feet in the past.
I don't. I do not like that which is superficial. History is very important to me. It is the story of time and when we take ourselves there, we know so much more. We also understand that we know much less than we think we do. I like to know every piece of information.
I think a person who enjoys stories will love history. I see it as a story with real events and when reading or watching these events, I feel I am there.
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@zedvictor4
The living human organism continues to develop, until it ceases to function.
I consider it more of a revelation than development. The human reaches his strongest state in his 20s and 30s. He will continue to unfold and make new revelations until he is gone. Christ is a revelation, children are a revelation, learning is a revelation, purpose is revelation...
With regard to biology, there is no denying that those over 60 are looking at physical regression, not progression.
So in terms of functional development, one can only say, that once procreational ability is established, then this is when the organism is functionally complete.
Having the ability to procreate does not mean the function can be executed well. It is subpar if the female is still playing with dolls and is a child herself. This is not the optimum time for offspring. The optimum time for offspring is 18 to 35.
The development of knowledge and social interaction is also an ongoing process and doesn't stop at age 25 or 26.
I believe this is grasped by this age.
Knowledge.
Why aren't they more knowledgeable? Where is this knowledge?
sources were far more limited and less accessible to children prior to the advent of personal social media devices.
Perhaps quality over quantity would be a better way to view this. I don't necessarily want to know about Ken's divorce from Jen, or know where an influencer is vacationing this weekend. How much do children know about history? How much do they know about religion? What do they know about philosophy?
If the knowledge is so great, why are they taking longer to mature? They take longer to marry, longer to have children, longer to find their careers, and longer to own homes. They want to have fun for longer periods of time, and are less likely to want responsibility, which the mature have to have. The mature possess knowledge.
It would be naive to say that this is not patently apparent...There again, I was born in 1960, so I have the advantage of first hand knowledge, from which to make comparisons.
I have spent time with my parents and elderly grandparents. I have two living grandparents who were born in 1941 and 1943. They say different. My father, who died with my mother five years ago, was born in 1953 and he said the same. My mother said the same too. Every older person I speak with believes it. You are an unusual man.
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@MayCaesar
When asking whether dragons exist, people do not ask whether they exist metaphorically. You know it and Peterson knows it. So please stop dodging the real issue.
It is a matter of context. If they are open to metaphor, you can say that dragons exist without it sounding wrong. When asking if there is evidence of the existence of the dragon, it would be correct to say there is not. The former is in the realm of religion and philosophy, while the latter remains in the realm of biology. However, when addressing the latter, we have to keep in mind that dragons are a representation of real creatures, comprise natural elements, and were an early explanation of dinosaurs.
Meaning beyond one's existence is a contradiction in terms. Something can only mean something to a conscious being, and outside of said consciousness the concept is inapplicable.
This is where you and theists disagree. Neither of you can be proven to be correct. It is a matter of belief and perspective. We will all see what awaits us in the end. I happen to believe in Heaven, Hell, and Purgatory.
That which cannot be proven can be rejected on the spot. Otherwise, feel free to accept all kinds of invisible massless unicorns and descend into madness.
I am happy to descend into madness. I don't want to reject things because they cannot be proven on the spot. You say it will lead to madness, but I say it is insane to reject that which you cannot prove on the spot. Do you not find this very limiting? How many things can really be proven on the spot?
"Do you believe Jesus rose from the dead?" is a simple yes or no question. There are two options: "Yes I do", and "No I do not". If neither, then "I do not know". "What do you mean by 'believe'?" is a stupid response.
Peterson explained his reasoning before arriving at his answer. This is no different from giving the answer and then explaining the reasoning, which you are expected to do.
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@zedvictor4
A human is fully functionally developed in their early teens, sometimes before...Such is the reality of the organism.
What do you mean? That they can procreate when they are in their teens and sometimes earlier?
And today the smartphone...Children grasp things far quicker these days
What do they grasp quicker?
To be honest, without technological intervention (AI), I'm not confident that the species would ever learn to function as a cooperative whole.
AI is either an extension of the human who you think is flawed, or an imposter that should be stamped out. I am not sure what you expect it to do.
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@Moozer325
I'm an outlier in the data. Vaccines are not 100% effective and I never claimed that they are. I am one data point, but when taken together with thousands of others, we see a clear trend emerge, the COVID vaccine makes it less likely for you to get the virus.
You are the data. You do not know what the scientists are saying or why they are saying it. Your body was infected with covid twice and you were infected again after being vaccinated. The body may be able to remember what it did when it was vaccinated for some months after the vaccine, but this will wane. Covid-19 vaccines can only instruct the body what to do if it has the virus, if it puts the instructions from vaccine and infection with virus together, if it does not forget it was vaccinated. The vaccine is theoretical. The virus is real.
I don't know why you continue to insist the vaccine prevents spread of covid. They have nothing to do with the spread of covid.
The health authorities are no longer telling the youth to get vaccinated. Most people are not getting the vaccine every six months, or every year. What was the point in being injected with it? An analogy I can think of is an amateur looking to play sports who has only done a warm-up exercise and has not yet played his first game (vaccine), and a sportsman who has played the game and won the medal after the hard work, the real work (virus).
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“Rule by the people” is not rule by the people when there are traitors and invaders who destroy the rule.
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@Moozer325
You cannot be completely immune to a virus. Vaccines decrease the risk of you getting it and having by worse symptoms.
What made you think your symptoms were going to be worse? You had covid and said it was mild. What was the vaccine going to do?
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@Moozer325
The COVID vaccine has been proven to reduce the risk of me getting the virus.
You claim to have had it three times.
If I don’t have it, I can’t spread it.
Yet, you say you have had it three times. What is going on here?
Do you continue to have the vaccination?
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@Moozer325
No I didn’t, and I’m not denying it happened, but this is anecdotal evidence. Have you ever heard that saying “The plural of experience is data”? You have a couple data points, but we have studies with thousands of data points showing that the vaccine does more good than it’s unlikely side effects.
What kind of nonsense expression is this?
I see everything as data. Data is information and all things are information. It is data that youth were not dying from covid-19, data that some became very ill after being vaccinated, data that the scientists were getting involved in matters of no concern to them, data that Fauci was funding coronaviruses in canines and bats...
All data that you do not want to hear.
Like I said before, I did it because I wanted to protect myself (it is still possible for me to die or get seriously sick) and for my grandparents who had a much higher risk of death.
It is very unlikely. You say you wanted to be protected...from what? Prior to the vaccine, you had it twice and it was mild. It makes no difference to your grandparents; it does not stop transmission.
This is starting to get into more of the philosophy realm, but if you don’t want to at least try to make your life on earth better, I respect your right to an opinion, but I can’t understand what you live for.
Ok.
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@MayCaesar
Dragons clearly are not real: I do not need to elaborate on that, and I have already talked about differences between fantasy and reality. As for atheism -> nihilism, this is just a Christian projection: Christians tend to think that a finite life is meaningless, while more... rational people focus on enjoying the finite life that they demonstrably have.
Dragons are real when we are talking in metaphors.
Christians understand that there is meaning beyond their existence. You may be able to bring meaning to your life by doing things you enjoy, but they are simply things you enjoy. The meaning is something you have come up with and it sprang from nothingness. Atheism is nothingness.
On the Great Flood, we can hypothesize that it happened, suggest what evidence would confirm or reject it, and look for that evidence. The results of such searches have been very conclusive: there was no "Great Flood" or "Noah's Ark". This is all religious fiction.
Why do you seek to prove that which cannot be proven? It is not as if we can test God in a laboratory. You do not know what happened.
Peterson is not doing a therapy session when talking to Harris or O'Connor. And even if he did, what kind of a psychologist cannot answer a simple yes or no question?
They are not “simple yes or no questions.” Peterson would have simple answers if they were. He prefers to think about it and analyze the matter.
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@Moozer325
Yeah you're right, it doesn't just take credentials and a job to be an expert. This is a video by one of my favorite YouTubers, the part about experts is at roughly 4:38. You don't have to watch it (though I recommend highly) so TLDR is that experts are people who have devoted their lives to something. You aren't an expert because you only spent a few years studying in a very broad area, and neither is a doctor who is fresh out of med school or residency. However a doctor that spent their career researching the contagious diseases, how they spread, and specifically different mutations of COVID is an expert in that area. I wouldn't go to them for neurosurgery though, because they aren't an expert in that area.
It was more than three years in a five year degree. If I wanted to, I could return and finish it, but my criminal conviction may be an obstacle. I did discuss it with one person, and he seemed to think it may not. The problem is that a forensic psychologist assessed me and came to some unfavorable conclusions. She said I needed to take the PCL-R test, as she suspected psychopathy. Some time has passed since then. Anyway, what I am saying is that I was studying medicine during the pandemic. This means I saw patients who had covid and other problems during the pandemic, including patients who had inflamed heart muscle and allergic reactions related to the vaccine. Did you see this?
To have “spent” their career implies they are at the end of their career. If I had chosen to work in biomedicine, I could have gone straight into working in a laboratory and looking at blood and other tissue samples. For how many decades do I need to be doing this to be considered an expert? I would be telling doctors what the problems are and their decisions would be informed by my findings.
They did not. They compelled everyone to get vaccinated so we can develop herd immunity and not spread the virus more. Even though I may not be at risk, I can still spread the virus to those who are at risk. This is a public facing FAQ published by Johns Hopkins in July 2021. The first question on the list is asking why should I get the vaccine even if I'm not severely at risk? The article answers that it keep other people safe. The medical establishment was very transparent about young people being safer, and they encouraged them to get the vaccine anyways to protect those who were more affected by the virus.
I hate to break it to you, but herd immunity had already developed. The young people who have gotten vaccinated need to get their heads tested. Some did it for very stupid reasons; they wanted to travel and wanted to keep their precious jobs. It is pathetic.
This is just plain false. We have so much data showing us that masks work: (www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2666142X20300126, "Regardless of the type, setting, or who wears the face mask, it serves primarily a dual preventive purpose; protecting oneself from getting viral infection and protecting others."onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/full/10.1002/mds3.10163: "The current research results have shown that COVID-19 is mainly transmitted via droplets in the air. There is a potential risk of airborne transmission in an indoor environment with poor ventilation. The distance of droplet transmission can extend up to 4 m. Based on this data, the recommended social distancing range of 1–2 m (CDC, 2020; WHO, 2020) may not necessarily guarantee the epidemic prevention. Therefore, wearing mask in public is essential as its effectiveness has already been well established by the current studies.")
Why did they pursue a vaccine if masks were so wonderful?
Also, your anecdote doesn't really seem to help your claim. If you were vaccinated, you may not have caught the virus. Yes, it was mild you, but it may have not been mild for someone you spread it to. I got the virus twice before I was vaccinated, and it was mild, but my dad did get the virus and he had it much more severe. This is still anecdotal evidence though, so I wouldn't give it much credit. Finally, you said that those who were going to get infected got infected, but why not try to stop that. Why the pessimistic attitude? We know that masks, social distancing, and vaccines all stop the spread of the virus, so why not use them to keep people safer?
You got vaccinated despite having covid twice and it being mild? This is akin to getting an imaginary set of balls sterilized, or being a 90-year-old woman and taking every contraceptive you can think of.
Finally, you said that those who were going to get infected got infected, but why not try to stop that. Why the pessimistic attitude? We know that masks, social distancing, and vaccines all stop the spread of the virus, so why not use them to keep people safer?
Yes, they did get infected. We have no control over it. We need to stop playing God. When are humans going to learn?
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@MayCaesar
He is not just here to ask questions: he makes very strong assertions on topics that he considers himself an expert at. "Dragons are as real as lions", "Atheism leads to nihilism", "Everyone has a Nazi prison guard in him", "Men are more interested in things, and women are more interested in people" - are just a few examples (and the latter two assertions I agree with).
Why do you agree with the latter two and not the others?
It seems to me that you find fault with Peterson providing lengthy responses, yet are saying he does not explain the aforementioned views. Which one is it?
Where he becomes obtuse is when probed further - he is very vague and dodgy when it comes to backing up his assertions on certain topics with an argument, or when it comes to religious truth claims that he very carefully avoids endorsing or rejecting. It is not hard for him to say how many genders there are, but to say whether the Great Flood actually happened or not - he cannot even say "I do not know"; instead, he will start the usual nonsense: "What do you mean by 'happened'? See, Carl Jung said that... [the tangent continues for as long as it takes for his conversation partner to give up on this line of questioning]"
We know there are only two sexes (intersex are a combination of the two). Gender is not something I pay mind to. It seems the majority appear to be their sex.
How would he know if the Great Flood happened?
From. your exerpt of his appearance on Rogan's podcast, his brilliant insight apparently was that sex is fun and is biologically encouraged. Wow, who would have known... Nobel Prize-worthy innovative finding.
This is not what I said. I am talking about Peterson's curiosity and talent in observing others and probing further. This is what a psychologist does. Others do not care. It is incredible that people miss so much and ask so few questions.
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@LucyStarfire
Is this your experience?
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Psychologists analyze far more than the non-psychologist. It is to be expected that Peterson is very analytical and puts every word under the microscope.
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@Double_R
Isn't everyone self-centered? How much regard do immigrants have for the nation giving them a house and a job? Do they care more about the American or more about themselves?
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@Double_R
I tend to be very critical of white people, particularly in most matters of racial tension because I find that white people tend to have a very self centered viewpoint which fails to recognize what it's like to not be white.
What are you?
How have you made this discovery? What do you know about whites not knowing what it is like to be non-white? What do they need to know?
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@MayCaesar
During one of their debates, Sam said, "What worries me, Jordan, is that after all this time I still have no idea what you believe. And if I have no idea, then neither do the listeners". Being so unclear that nobody knows what you are trying to say is not a sign of sophistication, but of sophistry.
Why does Sam Harris need to know what Peterson believes?
Then I would ask them to give an example of an especially deep insight of his, and they never could.
Peterson is a psychologist, a natural psychologist. Psychologists are people who care about what we say and do. I have seen him make observations that many do not care to make. His most recent appearance on Joe Rogan's podcast was interesting. Rogan commented on the male desire for sex and said that men want to put it in as many women as they can. He said this is their biological instinct and that sex is fun. I could tell Peterson was then curious about Rogan's marriage, and that he wanted to find out whether it was a monogamous marriage. Rogan quite cleverly avoided talking about whether his marriage is monogamous or not, and even retorted to Peterson that he must have had women throwing themselves at him too.
His listeners marvel at his brilliant performances, then cannot name a single position of his.
I see this as a good thing. It is appealing to me. Peterson is here to ask questions and have interesting, lengthy, explorative discussions. He is not obliged to become a simpleton and spell out for us his positions. We know that he is in favor of critical thought, and this is what matters. He usually arrives at the right answer, and gives more detail than anyone else can give.
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@FLRW
Tell this to the person who has had it.
We all have to take a gamble with our health sometimes. It is not the job of the government to roll the dice.
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@MayCaesar
I just listened to his recent conversation with Sam Harris, and it was a world of difference from their debates in Vancouver, London an Dublin years back: the guy sounded like RFK, a full-on crank.
Perhaps it was the company he was in? It is Sam Harris.
It may also be a reflection of the times.
You may think he has become eccentric or mentally unwell, but he has not become stupid. I believe he continues to be very sharp.
I would imagine Alex O'Connor studied theology to gain an upper hand in his debates with theists. He can claim he has knowledge, and may well have knowledge; knowledge that he uses against his opponent.
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@LucyStarfire
Well, some are mean.
That is women for you.
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@LucyStarfire
I listen to music from this century
Well I could call out when the going gets tough. The things that we've learnt are no longer enough. No language, just sound, that's all we need know, to synchronise love to the beat of the show. And we could DAAANNNCEE...
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@Moozer325
Well that doctor isn’t an expert. Experts are really few and far between. A doctor who’s dedicated their career to developing medicine and better treatments for a specific conduction, and has published lots of papers and maybe books on the subject is an expert.
Physicians treat the patients. The researcher and the physician who spends most of their time with patients have both graduated from medical school. One of them is spending their time researching diseases in a laboratory, and the other is with the patient. Some physicians who work in primary medicine or emergency medicine are involved in research and they publish papers. Surgeons publish papers.
What seems very apparent to me is that the human body is an unpredictable thing, and cares not about papers.
Fair enough, that was a hyperbole, my bad. The point I was getting at is that most people work too. You may know more about a subject than the average person, but that doctor who went through med school is still most likely more qualified than you, because majority of their time for many years was dedicated to learning, throughout under-grad, grad school, and residency. Average people just don’t have that kind of time. That’s not to say that every doctor is an expert, but 99% of the time the average doctor is going to know more than you about medicine, and I’m not even saying we should trust these doctors about everything. Go to the very top, and find the specialist who dedicate their careers to learning about one thing, find multiple people at that level, and check their credentials. I’m not saying don’t be skeptical, but doing your own research doesn’t mean going against the status quo. The status quo is there for a reason, they’re right more often than not.
I went to medical school in UK. You do not need a degree to enter medical school here. The majority of first-year students are 18. I was 18. You do need to have studied biology and chemistry for two prior years. In UK, a degree in medicine takes five years. I enrolled in 2018 and dropped out in late 2021. Granted, I have no degree in medicine, but I did study it for more than three years.
I have come to believe that credentials do not mean much. Some people are useless, or they are very bad. Their degree and their job title makes no difference. We are here to forge our own way in life, and should not be depending on the so-called experts to know what is right.
Yeah, I read those reports, and I recall that’s what the medical establishment was saying too. I stayed at home and I wore a mask because I wanted to be as careful as possible for my health, and because I didn’t want to spread the virus to other people, namely my grandparents and other older people around me. I trusted the experts and we all knew I was at less risk, I just followed the guidelines for the safety of others that I cared about.
Is this why the medical establishment compelled the young and healthy to be vaccinated? They lied.
I don't believe masks achieved anything. What will be will be. Those who were going to be infected were infected. I am still not vaccinated. I caught covid-19 and it was mild.
It is ok for people to think about their loved ones. It is not acceptable when the government use your loved ones as an excuse to shut down your economy and keep you indoors. The governments should have understood that most of us have the natural inclination to think of our families. Why did they use force?
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@LucyStarfire
I wasnt even born then.
This makes two of us. What of it?
My AI girlfriends are nice.
I'm sure they are wonderful
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@LucyStarfire
Ancient music? The song I posted was recorded in October 1979. How is this ancient? When were your parents born?
I think AI does better job than 99% of music producers out there. The only problem with AI is randomness, but randomness can be controlled by repeating.
You seem to really enjoy AI. How are your girlfriends?
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@LucyStarfire
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@Moozer325
When you have graduated and have chosen your field, you begin to work in this field. Doctors are often working for more than 12 hours a day. How much time do you think they have to continue studying?
Even if that is the case, that’s still much more time and effort spent studying a subject than most people will be able to get from an hour of googling, which is what most people mean when they say “I’m doing my own research”
Can you support this claim? How do you know this is what they mean? How do you know their research comprises only one hour of googling? They could be spending months or years reading books and looking at reports. If others had read the reports, they would know that the young and healthy were unlikely to be hospitalized or to die from covid-19. This was the case prior to the vaccine and after the vaccine, although the young and healthy have ended up with anaphylaxis and inflamed heart muscle after receiving the jab.
I also said: “what are doctors best at? Ignoring their patients.”
This comment is somewhat anecdotal and somewhat said in jest. It has some truth. We know that primary care physicians ignore their patients sometimes, or dupe them into thinking their problem is in their minds. I have great respect for emergency physicians, less respect for the primary care physicians who fail to investigate and fail to make referrals and fail to diagnose. They fall apart when there is an issue that appears complicated. They will do anything to avoid trying to figure it out. These are doctors who want a simple explanation, one that is easy to treat. What happens when more is required?
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The medical community has no business getting involved in the economy. The grave economic damage during covid is worse than the death from this disease. Unlike the death, it has lasted.
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@n8nrgim
Where on earth did you get evidence that the covid Vax was bad? There r claims that the Vax causes heart swelling but the odds r super low and the odds of heart swelling r way higher for patients who get covid. Ive done lots of fact checks like this when idiotic claims r made by anti vaxers and using credible sources I see they r mistaken. The best I can surmise is that you all r too incompetent to interpret science and the main point is that you don't know how to find or use credible sources of info
I have seen patients who became ill after being vaccinated against covid-19. They would have either anaphylaxis or inflammation of the heart. I was a medical student who refused to be vaccinated.
Covid-19 is a mild respiratory virus that the young and healthy survive with ease.
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@Moozer325
And expert is someone who has dedicated their life to studying a topic
Ha. That is what they tell you. They stop studying once they graduate, and when they are studying they are told what to study.
What are doctors best at? Ignoring their patients.
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How many times do the “experts” need to be wrong for us to stop trusting them? We have Fauci who was using government research to mess with bat and canine viruses, teachers who molest their students, homosexual couples who adopt babies and rape and murder them, midwives who murder babies, doctors who murder their elderly patients, morgue workers who molest the dead, scientists who are paid to tell lies, and so on. An expert is the same as a person in any other job; they can be horrible at their jobs, and in some cases they are psychopaths. Let us think of a poorly suited waitress, or a terrible pool cleaner. They are out there; they exist.
We need to start listening to people. Real people.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Sex is not degenerate.
It can be.
Addiction is degenerate.
It is degenerate when you are addicted to a harmful substance. Most commonly this is alcohol, cigarettes, or illicit substances. Sex addiction is also degenerate.
Lying is degenerate.
Yes.
Apathy is degenerate.
It is often a way to shield oneself.
Parasitism is degenerate.
Yes.
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@Swagnarok
I disagree that what Israel's doing now is a genocide as opposed to just a very rough military campaign against insurgents literally tunneled beneath every building in the Gaza Strip (the Gazan death rate isn't nearly high enough to convince me they're being deliberately killed off), but even if for the sake of argument you were right, one can teach about a historic genocide without denying that the descendants of the victims are also capable of the same sin.
I did not say Israel was committing genocide; I said they are accused of it. South Africa has accused them of it. ICC said it was plausible Israel has committed acts of genocide.
I understand that if Hamas laid down their arms, the bombardment would seemingly come to an end. This does not mean there would be no land encroachment or continuation of blockade, which are thorns in the side of Palestinians.
My gawd, are we bothsides-ing the Holocaust now?
History is important. There are going to be problems when you don't understand the enemy as people who did things for their own reasons. What are you going to do? Pummel them into the ground?
I mean, not kindergartners or first graders, obviously, but this is something they're going to learn at some point by the time they graduate high school, so.
I don't believe children can grasp the magnitude of it. In my eyes, you are still at child at 18. You do not stop developing until age 24 to 25. At 25, I have only recently stopped.
In this age, the development of the human seems to take even longer.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
It seems unnatural to me. When I see dogs, cats, and other animals I do not think sexual thoughts.
The degenerate behaviors between humans are very bad too.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
A person who is in prison is there to reform and to be an example to discourage others, to commit the worst of crimes while being given a chance is as sure a rejection as one can ever see. There is no point in wasting time and resources or risking release or escape.
You and I differ here. The prison was a compromise. Before they were used to house criminals, the criminals were executed. The idea that they are intended to reform is a very new one. They continue to be the compromise between execution or the continued existence of the criminal able to commit more crime if he remains in society and is not set on a different path through punishment. It takes discipline to be set on a different path, and it does not work for those who have not found Christ. It does not work for those who have not been made to learn empathy. You have to learn the hard way.
Those who are going to be psychopaths will be. They don't care about who is in prison. Most do not believe they will go to prison. They think they can get away with it.
When I got into trouble for wrong behaviors, being in a jail cell on three separate occasions did serve as a deterrent, or perhaps more of a “this is unpalatable, so I will become different.” The truth is that most of those who commit the worst atrocities have no prior experience of jail or prison. They are introduced to it after they commit their atrocity, and by then it is too late to ever let them be free walking among the public. I am talking about the pedophiles, the baby murderers, the child murderers, those who have taken innocent human life in grotesque manners.
With regard to the criminals who did spend one or a few days in a jail cell, there is a problem if it did not discourage them. A very real problem. Not going to prison is met with another compromise; probation. If being on probation and having to bend the knee to a bunch of dictatorial witches does not make you ever want to see the place or these people again, you should probably be in prison, and stay there.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
Another thing I hate is dishonor. To do indirectly by making people under your power vulnerable and then doing nothing to stop it while claiming the virtue signal of being above it is dishonorable.
Yes, this is dishonorable. Those who hate Trump are not honorable.
A people that claim to tolerate no rape and yet that delights in it being done to those they find vile in prisons they control is hypocritical.
I agree.
You kill or rape someone in prison. That's the final strike. Just fucking end the perp. Bury them in a shallow grave. Spit on the grave, and walk away.
Isn't torture a better punishment?
That is a conscious choice of prison wardens, nothing else. If they put prisoners together without a guard (and these days 5 cameras) watching that is not a "shrug what can you do" situation.
This is why it is not as common as most think, unless the prison is a very horrible place; the type of prison where prisoners are not fed, showered, or treated when they have a medical issue.
Prison is for punishment, not a homosexual orgy.
I believe it is those who have been in prison for a long time who resort to homosexuality.
Nobody is perfect, but my hatred of rape, dishonor, double standards, and hypocrisy are not on the list of my imperfections.
I will not speculate on what you have and have not done with animals, but I would say an animal may not be able to consent to sex with a human. It is true some male dogs get carried away with human legs, arms, soft toys, and so on. Does this mean they want to be the ones on the receiving end? They all say animals cannot talk. Animals can also not reproduce with humans.
That said, I understand the rest.
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@MayCaesar
Peterson has used the dragon metaphor on more than one occasion. It is quite a significant metaphor of his. It was nothing new in his exchange with Dawkins and O'Connor. I maintain that these are likely not the types to have a great understanding of or regard for metaphorical language.
Alex O'Connor once took a few minutes of prompting to just get Peterson to answer one straightforward question: does he believe that Jesus rose from the dead in this reality? Peterson did his best to wiggle out of the answer by bringing it a lot of pseudo-philosophical garbage. In the end, to a very carefully crafted question, he finally said: "I suspect the answer is yes". Why could he not say so immediately? Because making substantial statements is not something he is comfortable for.
He wanted to work through his answer. He may believe it to be one of the most, if not the most, consequential questions he has been asked.
Peterson poses as this deep thinker who sees all sides of every issue and does not commit to much in light of complexity of the questions - but in the end he ends up saying almost nothing. "The Bible has some intergenerational wisdom encoded in them" - yes, no guano, Sherlock. Anyone who accepts this has little to gain from listening to his musings on religion - which seems to be what occupies his mind 95% of the time nowadays.
He does not pose; he is a deep thinker. This is why he takes time with his answers. Perhaps you are not listening. It does seem that nowadays we cannot give thought to something for more than four seconds. It all has to be instantaneous. We are lazy and have become stupid, tribalist, and superficial. It is pitiful.
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@Swagnarok
Do children need to learn about genocide?
The Holocaust education is so poor that most of the students in US and other countries think all or most of the dead Jews came from Germany. How many know about the mass shootings in the east?
Photos of dead bodies and liberated death camps, testimonies of survivors, and so on.
What does this serve? For example, there is no one who knows more about the Holocaust than the Jew, yet the Jew is embroiled in wars and facing accusations of present-day genocide.
It would be better if we learned about the circumstances of war, the subtle nuances, and every event in chronological order. It would also be better if we took no side.
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@Castin
I will continue to believe that God does not necessarily condone slavery among men. The slavery we see in the Bible more closely resembles indentured servitude, and if God thought slavery were good, He would not have given us free will. Free will means rebellion. God allows another powerful force to exist in Satan. He is not as powerful as God, but he is powerful, and many are destroyed by him. Do you not think God would get rid of him if he wanted to take from us the choice?
Passages like this did great harm; slavers of the antebellum South pointed to them as justification for slavery.
They did not need to use the Bible. Their economies needed slavery. It was life or death for the South.
At the same time and for many centuries prior, a number of Christians opposed slavery or had reservations about slavery. Although westerners use products made by workers who work in terrible conditions for nothing or almost nothing, the countries who have people working in these conditions are, in most instances, non-Christian. Where would we be without Christianity? We cannot thank the Enlightenment for everything. Without Christianity, there would be no Enlightenment, which I would say abused the goodness of Christianity in going too far with what is seen as “enlightened.” Only Christianity would have allowed this.
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@ADreamOfLiberty
I have no doubt that people talk about rape in prison without thinking about rape in prison; they are saying a vile comment about an individual they think is vile. In most instances, it is no different from those who talk about the torture and murder of those they find abhorrent. Those who say it to you think you are deviant and therefore deserve deviancy. You are not the one giving it, but the one receiving it...“how do you like it?” It is a way to degrade, punish, and gain the upper hand. It is a very male thing to say. Heterosexual men see men raping other men as a very horrible thing. It is what they imagine to be the worst kind of humiliation and punishment.
Another problem is the idea everyone gets raped in prison. Everyone does not get raped in prison. It is uncommon in many prisons in the world. It is even uncommon in many US prisons. When homosexual acts do occur in prison, they tend to be consensual.
I don't know. It is interesting you find this disgusting, yet believe your interest in animals is ok. None of us are perfect, are we?
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@ultramaximus2
Plumbers can make good money.
They can if they are self-employed.
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@LucyStarfire
I would not do it. It is better to be a Scarface than clean toilets.
In prison, you had no choice.
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@AdaptableRatman
They aren't very different to me, except conservatism has a bigger set of balls.
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@AdaptableRatman
I will chalk this up to you never ever having worked as a janitor and being in a higher paying job as well as some crypto geek.
You should never assume anything about the white man, particularly the conservative white man. He has been to more places and seen more of life than you think.
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@MayCaesar
If someone would rather clean toilets for $2 an hour in Los Angeles than live in a ghetto in Santa Fe de Bogota, then offering them this opportunity constitutes a valid private enterprise benefitting both parties.
Why can they not find jobs in Bogotá? Are we to assume that Colombia does not have business owners or professionals?
I think Americans should travel to other countries (especially developing ones) more, as many of them do not have any idea what conditions the majority of human population lives in. I certainly have lived in places in which cleaning toilets in Los Angeles sounded like heaven relative to the local experience.
What places have you lived in?
I don't think cleaning toilets is good for anyone. We should clean our own toliets. Unless you are trying to save money to establish a business or put yourself through college, you should not be cleaning the toliets of others.
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@zedvictor4
Just about every military action taken up by the US in the last 50 years has required the support of Western Europe.
This is called NATO. Who cares more about NATO? The Europeans. This is to the extent they worry about America leaving the alliance.
For obvious reasons, predominately Western Europe and the US have always been allied.
US isolated itself from the conflicts of the world until WWI, and in WWII, similarly to WWI, they were very reluctant to get involved. Wilson eventually deemed it necessary to enter the Great War in 1917. After the Great War ended the following year, US again pursued isolationism. US was less willing than Britain and France to punish Germany, a measure that contributed significantly to the emergence of WWII. WWII saw Churchill begging for US involvement. He may as well have been on his knees. US sought to avoid entering the war, until they were attacked by Japan and felt they had to enter the war. This was a dream come true to Churchill. It is since WWII that US foreign policy has changed, with the establishment of Israel being a significant part of it.
Sustaining current allegiances with Moderate Islamic States, might prove difficult.
I doubt it. The Islamic countries have many pro-westerners, including Iran.
Though I suppose that we must also factor in Trump.
Trump gets on well with wealthy Muslims. What we can see here is Iran likely getting pummeled and no one coming to their rescue.
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@Swagnarok
You should try the roller skating again.
I certainly have the high, every time. I also get a “winner's high” when playing sports. Beating others and winning feels great, exerting the body and getting rid of copious amounts of energy and doing something with all the grit is even better.
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@LucyStarfire
You would enjoy Pride in Israel.
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