3RU7AL for DebateArt.com President - Official

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My platform - any and all code-of-conduct enforcement should be uniform - regardless of the individual being considered and regardless of where they posted

your scathing critique is requested
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In your personal opinion (or, perhaps you prefer the term 'objective analysis') is Wylted or myself closer to you in this regard, specifically with our approach to the Religion Forums?

Furthermore, is it possible that you could make it clearer what precisely you'll do?
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In your personal opinion (or, perhaps you prefer the term 'objective analysis') is Wylted or myself closer to you in this regard, specifically with our  approach to the Religion Forums?
if you would like to discuss a SPECIFIC PROPOSAL i would be more than happy to dissect it

i am not a mind reader
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Furthermore, is it possible that you could make it clearer what precisely you'll do?
i am more than happy to discuss any SPECIFIC ACTIONS you might have questions about

my understanding of the role of "DebateArt.com President" is more accurately described as OMBUDSMAN
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The way I put it will make you inevitably agree you are closer to me which is why I was curious how you saw it beforehand.

The Religion (sub)forum community has been significantly neglected by moderators compared with any other subforum other than perhaps Forum Games. It is so severe that a subculture has developed there which has been perpetuated by a select few (BrotherDThomas was the most recent example of someone who significantly perpetuated it but even ethang5 partly did so, more in retaliation than active harassment).

I believe a primary and significant reason for this is that the members who are active there are so accustomed to a mentality of 'the mods won't care if I complain' that they start to see the only way to handle it as quietly posting around these abusive members or actively retaliating by flaming them back in a flamewar, with a lot of sarcastic commentary combined with direct insult.

This is something Wylted believes is fine and should be left alone, he even deceptively coaxed me into making my views clear to the Religion Forums while pretending to support my idea and when that failed he himself went to post a thread there to render me unelectable (or so he thought).

What is your take on this situation and the approaches he and I take? I believe I am closer to you than to him, from my own perspective.
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I believe a primary and significant reason for this is that the members who are active there are so accustomed to a mentality of 'the mods won't care if I complain' that they start to see the only way to handle it as quietly posting around these abusive members or actively retaliating by flaming them back in a flamewar, with a lot of sarcastic commentary combined with direct insult.
specific code-of-conduct violations must be quantifiable

enforcement must be uniform

violating code-of-conduct because one claims they were "provoked" has no bearing on the specific quantifiable violation and the prescribed moderator action
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However, if there has been non-uniform attention and effort towards moderating (short of pure banning) within a community that exists on the website, there is already an imbalance that needs to be set to the other direction, do you not agree?

This isn't just myself talking, the reason Wylted's plan backfired is that it actually attracted Religion Forum users to support me that were otherwise going to be neutral or even against me potentially.
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What is your take on this situation and the approaches he and I take? I believe I am closer to you than to him, from my own perspective.
i cannot speculate on your state of mind and or any hypothetical future actions you may or may not initiate

i cannot speculate on your opponent's state of mind and or any hypothetical future actions they may or may not initiate

i will not act as a moderator for DebateArt.com

i will act as an advisor to the moderators and an advocate for UNIFORM ENFORCEMENT
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However, if there has been non-uniform attention and effort towards moderating (short of pure banning) within a community that exists on the website, there is already an imbalance that needs to be set to the other direction, do you not agree?
non-uniform enforcement of the past cannot be rectified by non-uniform enforcement moving forward
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non-uniform enforcement of the past cannot be rectified by non-uniform enforcement moving forward
It can and has been in many real-life situations even.

If you have a very neglected child or pet animal, it is very advisable to be extra attentive and sensitive to them when helping them recover.

The treatment for child abuse and neglect depends on the type of abuse. The first priority is creating a safe environment for the child, which may mean contacting social services or law enforcement so that the child can be taken to a safe place. Once the child is safe, mental health professionals and/or a physician will figure out the best type of therapy.
Therapy can help children understand their thoughts and feelings so they can learn to cope with the aftermath of abuse. There are different types of therapy, such as:
  • Developmental therapy. This type of therapy deals with the way a child grows and the way that growth has been changed or blocked by abuse.
  • Intrapersonal therapy. This type of therapy deals with the way the child’s relationships have been influenced by the abuse.
  • Cognitive and behavioral therapy. This type of therapy deals with the way the abused child’s feelings and thoughts have changed their behavior.
Treatment activities may also focus on preventing child abuse and neglect from happening again. Federal, state, and local agencies can help with these efforts by:
  • Helping parents and children create stronger bonds
  • Informing parents about good parenting techniques
  • Teaching parents to be emotionally tough
  • Creating stronger social and community connections
  • Supporting parents who are struggling
Helping children learn better social and emotional skills 
Your child’s healthcare provider will check for signs of abuse and/or neglect. If your child has emotional, developmental, and/or behavioral problems, ask your child’s healthcare provider for a referral to a mental health specialist for an evaluation.
Your child may need additional testing as well as medicine, and/or counseling to help them overcome abuse or neglect.

It can be heartbreaking to see a neighbor’s animal suffering in a situation of neglect. Depending on the situation, there are various ways you can help the animal or animals involved.
For emergency situations in which an animal’s life or safety is in immediate danger, contact your local law enforcement or call 911 immediately.

If the animal’s life is not in danger but you suspect neglect, it may be productive to approach the guardian and offer assistance such as walking the dog or even helping to place the animal in a more appropriate home. It is a sad fact that at times people get animals without thinking about the long-term commitment they are taking on; when the reality of the situation becomes apparent, they may be relieved to have someone offer their assistance.

There are times when the caretaker of the animal is blind to their inability to offer the appropriate care for the animal or animals under their guardianship. When more animals are taken in than the caretaker is able to care for, such a situation readily spirals out of control into what is referred to as “animal hoarding.” Read here for more information about the issue of animal hoarding.

If the guardian of the animals is not approachable, or if you suspect the animal is suffering from abuse as well as neglect, alert law enforcement, your local humane society, or your local SPCA (whichever is appropriate in your area) about the situation. It will be helpful to document what you have witnessed, including noting dates, locations and specific incidents and problems in a detailed journal. Photographs, video, and other evidence of the abusive conditions are helpful and persuasive. The Animal Legal Defense Fund does not have an investigative unit, so it is imperative that local authorities fully investigate the case.

If the overseeing agency is non-responsive, consider circulating a petition that you can then present to the agency demanding that the abusive conditions be immediately corrected. Consider enlisting the help of the local media such as newspapers, radio and television stations to publicize the situation.

A number of laws may apply; usually these would be state and/or local laws, but there may be federal laws as well (e.g., if you suspect the animals are used for fighting). To obtain local ordinances, contact your city council, local humane organization, visit your local library or check online at www.municode.com.
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Do you agree that being approachable and recognisable to other users matters as the President of this website, who is meant to be the person they turn to whenever they feel moderation isn't doing their job?

If so, how approachable and recognisable to other users do you feel you are, when compared to the other 2 candidates?
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If you have a very neglected child or pet animal, it is very advisable to be extra attentive and sensitive to them when helping them recover.
all children and pet animals should be treated with extra attention and sensitivity - regardless of whether or not they were previously subject to trauma
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Wrong, not if you have limited time and energy and even if you had unlimited time and energy, the ones who weren't neglected tend to genuinely want more time to themselves whereas the neglected tend to want more attention.

However, this is becoming a sidetrack neither of us want to go down.
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Do you agree that being approachable and recognisable to other users matters as the President of this website, who is meant to be the person they turn to whenever they feel moderation isn't doing their job?
you seem to be under the impression that "DebateArt.com President" will be in some position to tell the moderators what they should do

this is not the case

the moderation team can over-rule any recommendations that "DebateArt.com President" might be inclined to suggest

maintaining the full faith of the moderators is just as important as maintaining the full faith of the community

"DebateArt.com President" has no leverage whatsoever over the moderators
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Please tag me when you make your campaign thread.
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you seem to be under the impression that "DebateArt.com President" will be in some position to tell the moderators what they should do

this is not the case

the moderation team can over-rule any recommendations that "DebateArt.com President" might be inclined to suggest

maintaining the full faith of the moderators is just as important as maintaining the full faith of the community

"DebateArt.com President" has no leverage whatsoever over the moderators
There is a difference between needing to push forth a case and having no leverage whatsoever.

The leverage is emotional and social if it's in the hands of the right person. The mods should neither totally fear nor totally like the President, they need a healthy balance of both. They need to like the President enough to genuinely take his/her/their words seriously and need to fear that if they totally ignore the President, he/she/they is/are popular enough to push forth a genuine case in the forums as to what the mods are doing wrong and has enough respect and popularity to mean that the userbase will actually trust them and take into account their perspective.

This is, in fact, why I am at a loss as to why Wylted chose 'option 1' on the following:

Are you capable of proving your ability to use discretion.  The ability to use discretion is important to a working relationship.  Let's say you earn whiteflames trust and he starts leaning heavy on you as an advocate for users he interacts with less than you. 

A lot of those conversations may be very private and ugly facts about users could come out that was only the privy of mods. Say whiteflame concludes a particular case of harassment is not harassment and the user should go unpunished. You guys fight hard over it and he basically says "fuck you, not banning the harasser " . Your only two options are

1. Drop your argument and let the harasser get away with it

Or

2. Air your personal grievances with whiteflame publicly and break his trust and ruin the relationship necessary for a working relationship.

Will you and can you be trusted to take option 1.

I know I have the ability to maintain that relationship with whiteflame and have previously proven it as I have interacted with him a lot off site and we have both told each other personal things, and both of us have seen each other never betray that trust.  Can whiteflame trust you like he trusts me, so a working relationship is possible?
- Wylted


Which of the 2 do you lean to and why?
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Which of the 2 do you lean to and why?
what exactly do you believe might be "accomplished" by making private details of user accounts public knowledge ?
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Exactly, do you agree his scenario was ridiculously worded in order to bait one into either admitting to being totally corrupt or admitting to being open to violating privacy?
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Exactly, do you agree his scenario was ridiculously worded in order to bait one into either admitting to being totally corrupt or admitting to violating privacy?
speculation about MOTIVE is a text-book ad hominem
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It is not at all, for you yourself were incapable of answering it due to how abusively it juxtaposes two immoral things.
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It is not at all, for you yourself were incapable of answering it due to how abusively it juxtaposes two immoral things.
OPINION stated as FACT
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Throughout my campaign, I have had to deal with a serious of dishonest, outright filthy tactics from Wylted. It began with him posing as a severely outspoken supporter of me: is Rational Madman a dick? Should a dick be president. following a chat with me about me worrying about him having Covid, after he spoke of coughing up blood due to it. I didn't ask him to do it at all, he did it of his own volition only to immediately enter my campaign thread with such an abusive ultimatum and other cunning ploys, behind a kind and concerned facade, to bait me into admitting things he felt he could use against me or saying something he felt he could quote out of context and demonise me.

There has been no shortage of abusive tactics from his side and you even helped me out by actively providing a solution to his promised VP actively harbouring data he'd very likely leak to Wylted and use to further their cause.

I have had to deal with such severely deceptive and emotionally draining tactics from his side that the majority of my campaign has been forced to become anti-Wylted though I very clearly am less so that than pro-what-I-stand-for. On the other hand, it is curious that his entire campaign is about him vs me, it is not clear a single thing he stands for other than bribing voters with cryptocurrency the he'll not release unless he wins.
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it is not an opinion, you picked neither option 1 nor option 2 and your reasoning was as follows:

what exactly do you believe might be "accomplished" by making private details of user accounts public knowledge ?
Which was something I also thought of and said his scenario was lacking specifity on in my own reply because it completely neglected to explain why the private information was part of this.
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You possibly are taking Wylted not posting here as him respecting you but it's the very opposite. He doesn't fear you and is hoping you will attract voters who'd vote for me or that I'll say something here he can use against me.

What I am asking you to do is seriously consider (both yourself and Athias) who, for the next year (I am under the impression this is an annual role, no less) should lead the website and guard vulnerable members from unfair (either too over-strict or over-lenient) moderation and furthermore who it is that you believe will have your back genuinely when you're up against the wall.

I am saying you, as in literally you 3RU7AL and you, Athias. I do not believe you will win this election and I say that without any arrogance, it is about how late you entered it and how many have already gotten behind myself or Wylted.

I am asking you 2 to consider who will better serve the very interests you cherish:

any and all code-of-conduct enforcement should be uniform - regardless of the individual being considered and regardless of where they posted
Myself or Wylted?

I can promise you I absolutely vehemently will push for completely uniform and fair treatment to the both of you vs all other users. It's also why I'm posting so fervently in this thread, because no matter how sure I am that you will lose I respect you as a genuine opponent. I am grateful to you for not using any of the slimy tactics Wylted does and whether you drop out and back me or not, it is so genuinely refreshing to see somebody run for president other than myself who has their morals in tact.

I respect your honesty and integrity and am not a hypocrite to suggest you drop out in spite of it because I am also honesty and have high integrity, we are equals in that department in my eyes. You need to properly read through Wylted's campaign thread and perhaps see his style of derailing any attempt I have at serious discussion and twisting truth in the following threads:


I respect you both for being on the side of uniform application of rules but you have me, somebody who chose option 2 in that scenario and who is anti-corruption and a guy who flexes his friendship with Whiteflame, who mocks female users brutally berating them even saying he'll seduce and fuck them and who has dedicated his campaign to being a really cruel, twisted persona.

I wish you well no matter what you choose but I beg you not to back Wylted if you do change your minds later because he is not the right person to defend users of this website.
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i cannot speculate on your state of mind and or any hypothetical future actions you may or may not initiate

i cannot speculate on your opponent's state of mind and or any hypothetical future actions they may or may not initiate

i will not act as a moderator for DebateArt.com

i will act as an advisor to the moderators and an advocate for UNIFORM ENFORCEMENT
&

you seem to be under the impression that "DebateArt.com President" will be in some position to tell the moderators what they should do

this is not the case

the moderation team can over-rule any recommendations that "DebateArt.com President" might be inclined to suggest

maintaining the full faith of the moderators is just as important as maintaining the full faith of the community

"DebateArt.com President" has no leverage whatsoever over the moderators
Well stated. RationalMadman is overestimating the capacity of the office, thus demonstrating a lack of awareness. You're being honest about what you can and intend to do, as opposed to engaging demagoguery to curry favor. And I agree with you as it concerns the capacity of the office that having the trust and faith of the moderators is just as important as having the trust and faith of the community over which you would preside.