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Honestly, I'm completely, 100% convinced at this point that I was right about my Pie/Vader theory. No reason not to do this now.
VTL Pie
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@Vader
A Hidden Miller role literally just proves my point even more except the fact there's no framer. Which I guess makes sense for a Roleblock and a Redirector to exist, but even still doesn't that seem somewhat underpowered?
We don't know what scum have, but I'm willing to bet money that they have some form of a JOAT. You should be considering this possibility, especially based on your own claimed results, but it's like you are pathologically unable to suspect Pie here. It's almost like you two are partners...
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@Vader
So Casey was conviently roleblocked this DP but then stated they wanted to target Banana.
Right, just ignore how INCREDIBLY convenient it is that Pie got Vanillaized last night. Nothing suspicious to see here folks.
I do not buy it. At this point I am very much leaning toward Casey and Savant. There's too many issues in their statements and jumping to conclusions that would make me believe that they are not scum.
This theory makes no sense. If Savant and I are the team, this game is easy af for me. I just let Ultra get lynched and coast through DP2, then get you or Wylted lynched today. Easy peasy. Why would I have drawn all that attention to myself yesterday concoting a theory about you and Pie (which I was very obviously right about) which would only make me look suspicious when no one would have sussed me if I had just stayed quiet? I mean, both Banana and Savant backed up my claims about NP1. No one would have had any real reason to sus me before I started theorizing.
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@Vader
Let's look at the scenarios of what scum role could be. We know that a Framer exists in this game based on Ultra's turn so no matter what a Framer role HAS to exist.
What are you talking about? You need to reread the flip. Ultra was a hidden Miller.
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@Savant
Casey was visited by Pie. Pretty sure an "innocent child" shouldn't be visiting anyone.
I was told that I was roleblocked. So that checks out. Though my night action was to give a Strengthener to Banana, so it wouldn't have done anything anyway. I knew one of us was for sure going to be the night kill, I was just hoping it'd be me instead.
Anyway, I think that Pie is very obviously scum and Vader is almost certainly the partner. Not really sure how much there is to discuss here.
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@Vader
You can read the DP for yourself, you know. He claimed after.
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@Vader
I want to note that as a claimed tracker last DP Savant was not killed by when neither banana nor myself outted roles
Savant did not claim Watcher until today. The roles which had been outed by the end of yesterday were Actor and Victim and I'm pretty sure that's it.
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@Savant
I'll think about it. I do like the idea and I think this might be a good way to promote the site, so I give you major props for your effort here.
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@ILikePie5
You’re overthinking. Ultra has a guilty result on him. How else would Ultra appear guilty? I assume you think I framed Ultra. The odds of that are so low to begin with. And second, if my plan was to get him mislynched, I can do that without the Framer too. I would’ve just framed someone else.
Yeah, sure, I might be. I just want to cover all my bases. I am almost positive that Vader is the partner if Ultra is scum, however.
And I’m basically guaranteed to be confirmed, so it’s probably Vader/Ultra.
Agreed on the second part. I'm assuming you're DP3 Inno Child then?
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@Vader
This role is somewhat common tbh. It's not like it's some crazy bullshit role
I have literally never seen it before. Granted I'm not the ultimate authority on mafia, but Pie says he's never seen anything like it before, either.
And honestly if I were actually scum, why wouldn't I have just gone for a Dreamer fake claim lol. It would've make it 10x easier to come up with fake results and put 3 additional people for mislynches. Claiming a Comedian wouldn't make any sense in this case
This really isn't that hard to explain. You claim what you can justify. I never said that your justification doesn't line up, did I?
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@Vader
I am not suggesting to overlook mistakes. I am just saying that at times throughout my mafia career I have made mistakes on both of sides of the coin, town and scum. It's not affiliation indicative like you are implying it is.
You were literally the one who implied that making mistakes about your character and PM was something you rarely ever did as scum because you pay too much attention to the details as scum. I merely disproved that notion. My case against you is additive, anyway. It's not just the potential slip, but also the unique role no one has ever seen before, the fact that I wasn't able to actually target you, and plain old PoE. I'm very confident in my town reads this game.
Do you want me to give a full breakdown of my read on you to clarify my stance on you?
Sure, go ahead.
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@Vader
So now you have an issue with me building a case but have an issue when I deflect the case you make that I clearly responded to???
So you admit that you're building a case against me, then? Why even bother doing that if you TR me so?
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@Vader
I got CC'd in Years Mafia by WF and got outted from a result
Yes, but you also made the mistakes that I said you made, and your mistake about the Hagia Sofia was one of the reasons I hard scumread you even before the CC. Don't try and act like what I said isn't true.
I have links to a ton of games where I made a mistake. Years worth. It's not just me being scum. I don't think it's a strong argument and tbh it's pretty weak IMO
Right, so you don't make mistakes as scum, except for when you do, but we should just overlook those, because you also make mistakes as town sometimes. Okay.
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@Vader
There is also way more of a reason for Casey to verify Savant rather than anyone else. Savant was almost dead to rights in the later DP1 before Earth's claim. If I am scums partner I would try anything possible to divert attention and to give some form of credibility to that user. The role Casey claims is just that role. However again I am still town reading Casey and don't think that.
It's really cool how you're building a case for me being scum while also publically stating that you townread me.
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@Vader
This is the typical norm for such and if he doesn't turn he turns into a strong scum read. I layed this out and our justification to lynch is that the joat was true and casey's role works the same way.
Fair enough, I expect you to follow through on this logic, and I hope the rest of the town ensures that you do so, because I fully expect to die tonight.
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@Vader
I would honestly scum read myself if I perfectly typed out justifications for myself. I know its crazy to think but I can attest to my biggest flaw as scum being way too detailed orientated.
Except for when you were scum and got the date of completion of the Hagia Sofia wrong... Or when you got details about your character wrong in Castlevania Mafia...
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@Vader
If Pie is still alive but he is not confirmed we have my JOAT that I gave for him for justification. I said this in my last post but it seemed like you skimmed very quickly
If that's his justification, he's definitely scum. Too similar to my own role.
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Please note how Vader is merely deflecting away from my case against him and Pie instead of actually making a substantive reply.
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@Vader
Tbh seems like your just fishing for slips versus focusing on the guilty result. You have a guilty result and you are focusing on Pie slips.
I have no problem lynching Ultra today. I think it's informative either way.
If I'm dead this NP and I'm revealed as a comedian and Pie is not outted as an inno child DP3 he's the joat and lying. If he dies in the NP and flips Inno Child, just proves I'm not just throwing shit out there to throw shit. If Ultra turns town in his lynch this means we have pressure on Banana.
And what if Ultra flips town and you and Pie are still alive? Why is Banana the one you'd suspect most? Do you really believe there's a mafia role in this game which just gives fake guilty results to other players?
Also a slip is making a mistake from what you claimed and getting caught in a lie. This isn't really getting caught in a lie. It quite literally is the definition of "opposite of dreamer"
'Slip' is short for Freudian slip, accidentally letting on to something you meant to keep secret. If your role is actually just made up, then you might forget that you said it was 1x. One thing I've learned from playing this game is that blatant slips rarely ever happen. Usually, they're quite small. You have to focus on the details of human behavior to win this game as town.
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@Savant
I guess there could maybe be a framer involved, but that means having to guess who gets investigated. It is possible, but it requires scum to get lucky. I'll take another look at dp1 behavior though.
That much is true, but I know Banana at least was still openly sussing Ultra by the end of DP1. It would have relied on luck for sure, but that's always true when it comes to using a framer.
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#57 also feels like a possible slip from Vader, plus my vest missing my target is suspicious. I also think the Pie slip I caught may have been genuine. I feel really good about this solve tbh.
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@Savant
Fair enough. If one of you two is lying, it's probably banana.
I don't think it's Banana either, however. If Ultra is town, then I think Pie is scum. Look at this interaction between him and I in Mayday Mafia.
Don’t forget that this is the same Owen [Ultra] who steamrolled town with Wylted and Barney with his fake CC. I think we give him less credit than he deserves as a player. I think for me today it’s between Moozer and Owen. (#413)
I reply:
Maybe so, but I think a large part of the problem there is that no one really questioned a 3P BP and a Town BP existing in the same game nearly as much as we should have. (#421)
Pie replies back:
[That's] fair, but his execution was perfect as well. (#422)
Sound familiar? Because it reminds me a lot of Pie in this game:
That’s fair, but you’ve only evaluated his town games. You have to compare it to his scum games. This guy was the mastermind of a double fake CC scum win if I remember correctly. (#158)
Pie was pivoting to setting up a mislynch on Owen in Mayday Mafia. I think he may have been doing the same thing here. He gives Ultra too much credit for what happened in that game, and I think it's on purpose. I mean, Pie was trying hard to put sus on him during DP1, and now he magically appears guilty. Suspicious? Only if he flips town.
I don't buy Wylted being scum for behavioral reasons. Ditto with Banana - after she explained her scumread on me, I went back and looked at her previous posts, and all her interactions with me really did read as 'I think you're town but am also really frustrated with you.' Plus I know she's not lying about her role and I don't see it going to scum.
I also TR Savant for his claim. It makes sense with the balance. So basically, scum are among (Ultra, Vader, Pie). Game is basically solved FMPOV.
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@Savant
I guess it depends on his role, but unless he's the miller or something, it would implicate you and banana the most.
I understand this viewpoint, but you yourself received the bulletproof vest I gave out, so you know I'm not lying about that. I guess it's not technically impossible for me to have that and be scum, but it's pretty rare.
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@iamanabanana
If savant is telling the truth I suppose it would have to be a redirector. I’m a little concerned about all the investigation roles though, what do you think of my role + innocent child + vaders role + savants role all being town?
I buy that you're town 100%, but I don't buy all the other roles being town together. I get the feeling Vader might be scum. I'm not sure why he would have redirected me to Savant, however. I think I know who the team probably is if Ultra flips town, but I want to hear everyone else's thoughts first.
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@Ultracrepidarian
If you are town, you should be giving your honest reads right now.
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I do want a little more discussion before this day ends. Specifically, I want everyone to answer these two questions:
- If Ultra should flip town, who does that most implicate?
- What do you make of my bulletproof vest going to Savant? What do you think the scum team did and why?
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@Ultracrepidarian
I think unexplained mysterious PMS arent being taken with a sufficient grain of salt
Wdym unexplained? Banana's role literally explains my PM. Or do you think we're partnered?
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@WyIted
bruh, Lunatic is in the age range where this is a huge name. I promise. I thought it still was
Yeah, I'm 23 and even I'm familiar with her. I don't think the character is sus even if the rest of the claim is.
The only thing giving me pause here is that Ultra was quick to soft his character, so if he was planning on faking his character, he must have had her in mind early. Honestly though, he might just be straightclaiming his character. Courtney Love doesn't exactly have a stellar reputation.
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@Ultracrepidarian
Have you even read the rest of this thread? There's not that much to read here.
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Wow, I hate that claim. Keeping my vote where it is but I still want to hear from Pie.
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@Ultracrepidarian
What does confused Townie do exactly?
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@Ultracrepidarian
I got a Guilty on you. Full claim now.
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@Savant
Alright, so there's some sort of Redirector/Deflector in play, it seems.
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@iamanabanana
What does bus driven mean? I know of redirector, what’s the difference?
Bus Driver is sort of like a Redirector but it involves two people. The Bus Driver chooses two targets and any other actions directed at the first target get deflected to the second and vice versa.
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@Savant
Interesting. You think you and Vader may have been bus driven? I'm really not sure why you two would be the targets if that's the case.
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@iamanabanana
Interesting. To be clear, you choose who to investigate and who gets the results?
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Has Comedian ever been used in a prior game on this site? I can't find anything about it online.
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@WyIted
How could we trust thatessage if you don't know where it came from? If somebody is responsible it's worth confessing.
I'm not trusting it blindly, I want to know who's responsible for it. I also want to know if anyone else received a vest last night, because I know my action was successful.
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To be clear, I asked Luna and he said my target would have been informed that they were given a bulletproof vest
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@Vader
Okay, that's highly suspicious. I am Elon Musk and I am the Inventor. I have three different things that I can give to someone each night, and last night I gave you a bulletproof vest.
I also happened to receive feedback last night telling me Ultra is guilty. I do not know why.
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Still not happy about this wagon but we're quickly running out of time in this DP and I don't think anyone else is getting lynched today, so I will reluctantly hop on.
VTL Earth
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Screw it, I'm just going to say it
They probably didn’t even have to use their ability to confirm a fake character or fake role tbh
It's this line. This is something mentioned in the OP. I didn't notice it at first, and I don't think anyone has brought it up so far. Obviously Pie knew about it. Is it just mundane and he didn't mention it before now, or is this a possible slip? Idk, maybe I'm reading too deep, but Pie is still in my PoE and there's still something about him this game that bothers me.
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