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@whiteflame
That's rough dude. I know we've had some instances of it here, but it's particularly brutal in a game where you have to keep up with so much to have so many arguments and finger pointing be directed at town.
lol liberdon was one of the players I’m talking about. I voted her day phase one. Everyone told me I was crazy and that she always plays like that, so eventually I let myself be convinced of that logic. She was never pressured again and openly bandwagoned the entire game. She even did a coin flip on a lynch lol. People just let her get away with that.
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I’m still 50/50 on joebob vs earth. Earth re emergence seems so lack luster though. Kind of the same with joebob but like earth knows he’s one of the biggest lunch trains and barely tried making a case for anyone not to lynch him. He seems indifferent. Would he be that indifferent as mafia? Looking at the last game he seemed like it in the thread but that he was more tactical in the discord so it’s hard to say. He could just be banking that we will be indecisive and decide he’s too mislynchable. I don’t like it.
Maybe I’m like 60 on earth and 40 on joebob. But Joebob barely really seems to be trying either. Scum is probably in one of my town reads honestly. I am hoping day phase 2 will be easier to re evaluate things on. I feel like I agree with Whiteflame that neither of these lynches are optimal and are just as likely to result in a mislynch. But I don’t really have a reason to lynch anyone else. And at the end of the day if your not actively trying to help town solve the game then I have no reason to assume you are town. That’s where I’m at with earth and joebob. And considering I just got out of a mafia champ game where two / three scum were coasting along I am a little more suspicious of coasting players atm. For the record we didn’t lynch one scum in that game. It was brutal
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I think I’d like to hear more from Austin as well. I know I was towing him earlier and he said he was busy but after the first day of arguing with savant he seems like he’s trying to let the attention shift a bit which I don’t like. I’m hoping he will be a bit more active today.
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Joebob* not Jordan. On my phone so auto correct is having its way with me
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Well we weren’t even voting earth for a claim. I voted for him to be active and posts good reads and stuff. He posted a read list that was almost worse than Jordon’s yesterday and then claimed still, even though that wasn’t what we were pushing for. I have a feeling to get anything useful out of earth we are going to have to pull teeth. Doesn’t necessarily mean he is scum, but at the same time the lack of wanting to scum hunt or push the game forward at all isn’t helpful or pro town.
I am equally willing to lunch Joe on I guess because his reads were atrocious and I don’t get the vibe that he really read anything, maybe got the clifff notes from a scum buddy. I was going to pick him apart about his reads but got busy. That said the case for him is basically the same for earth. Both seem willing to just let things play out. I don’t get the feel from either player that they care about figuring this game out or helping town progress. I have never viewed joebob as a particularly strong player before but in terms of general activity and interest he seems to have considerable less this game. 0 motivation. It definitely feels different than how he plays in other games I’ve seen him in as town. Maybe I’m wrong about that.
I’m almost feeling 50/50 on him and earth. Earths claim is worse, but joebobs activity feels worse. Anyone else getting the same vibes here?
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@whiteflame
You are right, I think it was body guard actually.
Commuter is one of those claims that is also commonly fake claimed so I guess I still feels with is the best option here.
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@whiteflame
I distinctly remember earth as mafia in the discord last game saying “why do people claim fake claim commuter as scum”
Whiteflame can you confirm you remember him saying this? Do you think he would blatantly claim a role he thought was generally scummy to claim like that if he was scum?
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Well we still have until tomorrow evening. Did earth ever claim?
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Savant I agree that moozer is looking like a mislynch probably. That said I don’t have an alternative yet, and if we no lynch Casey would be the unfortunate victim
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Slight town points for Whiteflame for telling savant we don’t need more claims. Again something he might also do as scum but as a net positive it helps that he keeps doing townie things.
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@WyIted
This is a funny story lol. I still play this game. Just returned to it after retiring it in 2017. My coworkers have a tribe and forced me into it. I am actually enjoying the state of the game right now. I don't have any crazy stories like that, but I used to have a youtube channel and post and th9 strategies back when TH9 was the fun meta. The game has changed so much, its much more balanced and overall way more fun now. Sitting at town hall 11 now, but with not having to pay for troop costs anymore, I am progressing sooo much faster than I was back in the day. I was at town hall 9 for like a year and a half before I maxed it, now I've jumped two town hall levels in two months, not rushing.
Definitely a better game state then it was when I played last. Even got my girlfriend playing now, and she loves the strategy involved.
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Claims
Savant- US Senate- Oromagi - Richard Durbin- Odd night Cop
Casey- US House of Representative- Elminster- Cheri Bustos- Scapegoat
Lunatic- Ancient Roman Battles
Earth- Civil War Generals
Wylted- Throne of Glass Mafia
Whiteflame- The Legend of Zelda (Ocarina of Time)
Austin- Governors Mafia
JoeBob- 13 Reasons Why
Moozer- Narcos
Savant- US Senate- Oromagi - Richard Durbin- Odd night Cop
Casey- US House of Representative- Elminster- Cheri Bustos- Scapegoat
Lunatic- Ancient Roman Battles
Earth- Civil War Generals
Wylted- Throne of Glass Mafia
Whiteflame- The Legend of Zelda (Ocarina of Time)
Austin- Governors Mafia
JoeBob- 13 Reasons Why
Moozer- Narcos
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I think scum is likely lurking here.
I am getting town vibes from Austin, savant, and wylted.
Casey gets a town from me based on his roleclaim. No way mafia is claiming that, and the chances of town just YOLO VTNL'ing or accidentally VTNL'ing based on not coming to a decision fast enough are way too likely to happen. This is the ballsiest scum claim ever if he is scum. There's just no way. Casey is basically town confirmed in my eyes.
Austin v savant just feels very town v town to me, and I just went through the same thing with austin in mahabaratta, and with santygrass in the mafia championship game. Wylted feels like he is trying to piece through things logically, and as scum I feel like he would just be manipulating savant here, but he is equally questioning savants logic and not taking him and his role claim as confirmation, so I am leaning town on him for that alone. And I agree we shouldn't be clearing savant based on the cop claim alone. Chances are pie told them there wasn't a cop in the game, plus he didn't claim odd night cop, just cop, and we know from looking at the endgame of his game, that it was an odd night cop. That rings a bit wierd to me but not TOO wierd. But I am town reading savant independent of his claim so it's whatever. I feel his frustration early on with austin was genuine, and a lot of his subsequent response felt emotional in a townie way.
Austin is literally playing the exact way he usually plays as town, same normal aggression, he got the ball rolling this day phase and activity going, despite the fact that it's backfiring him a bit.
Whiteflame I want to town read, because I have agreed with a lot of what he has said this day phase, but as I said early on, I think whiteflame would probably say and do a lot of the same things as scum. He is very good at blending in behaviorally, and I think it's easier to catch whiteflame out on mechanics/role slips. I don't personally think whiteflame is the best at fake claiming (definitely not the worst either) but he doesn't take huge risks, and he's likelier to stick to safer claims etc. Behaviorally wise he's almost always going to act the same way. So I am going to keep him as null for now despite liking his posts so far. He also hasn't really pushed anyone, or seemed to be scum hunting so that makes me paranoid, but also, neither have I yet. It's early so I'll give him a pass on that one.
Moozer feels like the bad luck brian meme of this game. I don't know if I wanna excuse his comments as lazy town, or go with lazy mafia. The austin vote was bad though. At the same time if we push him, I feel like it could very well either end in a mislynch, or a townie power role claim, and we learned nothing more than "oh moozer is a noob who did a noob thing" and we are back at square one, with mafia having more information then they need.
POE leaves earth and joebob, who have been coasting this phase. Earth tends to be a bit more on the inactive side in general but if we are going to pressure anyone, I think these two and moozer probably should be the focus. Moozer has at least kind of participated, but joebob's participation feels especially lacking.
VTL joebob. I don't want a claim I just want thoughts on the game, reads, overall opinions, etc. Same with earth but I'll start the pressure here.
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@Savant
'm sure Austin will accuse me of grasping at straws, but here's another theory...I strongly suspect that Austin is "liking" his own posts. At first, I wasn't sure of it, but a significant number of his posts have been liked, despite no one except whiteflame coming out and defending him. So who is anonymously liking these posts where Austin defends himself but not openly supporting Austin? I don't think that would make sense. Either WF or Austin is doing it, and they're both smart enough that it's clearly an effort to sway the opinions of town members.The final piece of evidence was Luna's post being liked when only Austin, Luna, and I were online. I didn't like it, and I don't see why Luna would do it. So that means Austin has liked at least one post in the thread, maybe out of habit.All it would take to debunk this theory is for someone else to say they liked several of Austin's posts. If JoeBob or Casey or someone has been liking them, then that solves the mystery. Otherwise, Austin has been liking his own posts in an effort to sway opinions, which comes across to me as strongly suspicious.
I've been liking a lot of austin's posts as I've been catching up. Logically, him and I agree with many of the points he's made. I've indicated this as much in some of the responses I've made. Mystery solved.
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@WyIted
I don't have time to go through these people's games. What is up with Savant? His logic seems poor and though I don't remember much about him from before I thought he was a semi active member and somehow got the impression he had really good logic and reasoning. I don't think I have crossed his path much, so not sure where I got that opinion from
He's a new player. He is a pretty smart guy and I think will become a prominent player, but he's only played a few games. I feel him coming into the game more and more and feeling more confident with his reads etc. As he learns more about the game we will see less mistakes like claiming too early without much pressure, etc. Austin is a pretty intimidating player and his reaction to austin makes sense here, but this whole interaction reads town v town to me.
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@WyIted
I have mixed feelings on the buddying so did not list it but I think it indicates that if austin is scum than lunatic is town.So Austin is definitely scum. Let's review the evidence.scum tell 1Tow behaves differently when on their head is on the chopping block than scum. One scum tactic when their head is on the line is not to defend their evidence but gaslight their accuser by questioning their logic. A more natural response to stupid logic is not really that aggressive or defensive. Here are gaslighting posts below;post 227 " > I also voted you because WyIted also suspects you for other reasons, which in my view makes the case against you stronger.We should triple the US government's spending. Not really gonna specify my reasons, but in my view it makes the legislator's cases stronger"Now this is poor logic by Savant, but the logic is strawmanned, not necessarily an issue, but the issue is gas lighting them and attacking their logic, instead of proclaiming your innocence or scum hunting
This response from austin happened AFTER you stated you had a case against him. So it looks like you didn't have a case against him, you more had a gut read against him and are using his reaction to his pressure as added weight to your argument against him. That's a nicer way of saying "you manufactured the read to take advantage of savant's emotions of having outted himself as cop for a bad reason to further emphasize his push on austin". I am trying to give you some benefit of the doubt here. That said, Austin's point here was 100% legit.
post 222 "Savant has literal zero basis for scumreading me and his recent posts prove it"Who gives a shit. we all know that this is a bad way to defend yourself, but the issue is questioning the logic behind it. Most of us would say it is bad logic and move on or just say something like "fuck off I am innocent", and not elaborate. He isn't defending himself he is attacking.post 206 questioning logic again not sum hunting or defending himself."Right, so the wagon on me is:-Savant (who's mad that I pointed out objectively scummy behavior)-Wylted (for reasons unknown)-Moozer (sheeping the above two)"post 199 follows the same logic of attacking the logic of somebody who is on your wagon and gaslighting them.
I mean, laying out the case on him, that is all the actual reasons. Savant is OMGUSing, you never laid a case on him and so far everything you've pointed out his post you claiming to have a case on him, moozer admitted to bandwagoning. Why should he or anyone take the pressure on him seriously? Why would he not defend himself this way as town? I 100% would be doing and saying the exact same things in his position if I was town.
Scum read reason 2Austin is lying and we should lynch all liarspost 132 about Savant"I scumread him because it looked like he was pretty much coasting on his "first to claim" thing which means close to nothing in terms of towncred imo yet apparently he thought it makes him unlynchable this DP? yea not rly sure where that comes from. "He scum reads savant, this is after placing his vote, so no reason to lie here.post 137, he also doubles down that he had a scum read on savant"lready said I scumread you because I felt you were coasting on your early claim in a way that didn't feel genuine. I asked you why because I wanted to see whether your reaction was coming from an informed ("oh no I've been caught but he doesn't know that") or uninformed ("I'm being pushed for no reason") perspective."post 133, he claims to never scum read him and just be reaction testing. So he either lied about the mere reaction test or lied about scum reading him."Savant, why would you claim though? You only had two votes and mine was literally just a reaction test."
Before he ever voted savant, he claimed to have a hard time reading him. It stands that he had reasons for pressuring savant. Also the day phase was stagnant at this point, so he was the only one garnering activity. Sucks that it resulted in an over reaction from Savant, but his reasons are sound to me. I was actually wanting to do a reaction test on you to get things moving in the game. My plan was to vote you and call you out for scum slipping to see how you handled the pressure of if you would acnkowledge the scum slip. I opted to play elden ring all night instead, so it never ended up happening.
Scum read 3Austin is trying to look like he is scum hunting by merely just making random comments about theory. We all go off on theory here and there but this feels like austin is trying to mimick being active.post 158 "I actually disagree a bit with this imo - I think posting reads as you catch up is one of the best ways to let other players read you. Scum have the burden of too much information, which can sometimes show in an unnatural read progression."This isn't scum hunting and it is fluff he does it more.
I don't think it's fluff and I agree with what he is saying here. Fluff is you posting about pie need to get laid, and teasing casey about gender roles.
post 111, another excuse to talk theory instead of scum hunt to simulate activity"Somehow missed this earlier. Although I can understand why you did this, I advise you not to do it in the future. Claiming a SOP role will always lead to measurable harm for town because it narrows the POE for scum to fire in.You have to weigh whether the benefit town gets from knowing the SOP is greater than this. I don't really think that's the case with this particular role, since if town is really so divided that we can't agree to a lynch after an entire day of discussion, then it's better to have a negative utility role eliminated for POE."
Another non fluff statement that rang as town to me and that I agreed with.
scum read 4Scum have this tendency to make double statements that follow the pattern of this guy is scum but also he is town.
Can you point to examples of this? These blanket statements of "scum do this and scum do that" aren't hitting for me, because I see town do a lot of the same things.
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@WyIted
OMGUS is not a scum tell despite people thinking otherwise. It is a noob characteristic though
I fall victim to OMGUS sometimes, though usually its because someone's reasons for voting for me are so bad that I feel like they HAVE to be manufactured to try and get a mislynch lol
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@AustinL0926
You win games by attacking scum, not defending yourself. Any arguments I make regarding my own alignment are inherently biased by the fact that I know I'm town. The only thing I can do to prove my towniness is to hunt for scum, but you're not making that easy at all. You're probably town, I'm town, and this is getting annoying and allowing scum to hide in the shadows.
^^^^
Townie af post
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@Savant
No matter how Austin flips, it's going to reveal something. If he's town, Moozer is probably scum. If he's scum, whiteflame is probably his partner.
And what about wylted?
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@Savant
Austin's behavior is much more OMGUS than mine was, he's just avoided voting against Moozer so he won't be accused of attacking people for voting against him.
He unvoted you immediately after you claimed cop, and he hadn't voted moozer yet just said he was slightly scummy on hsi read list at this point
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@Moozer325
Alright, my final decision is to VTL Austin. I'm not bandwagoning, it's just that I don't have that much time, so I'm gonna defer to the people who are better at this than me. If it's better for me to just not vote, I'm down for that too.
I don't like this. At all.
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@Moozer325
Honestly, I kinda would prefer a VTNL here, but that's not going to happen. I'll just vote with the majority, which seems to be leaning toward Austin for now.
At the time you are posting this, it was literally just savant and wylted... And wylted hasn't even made his case yet. I am feeling this is not your strongest game. I don't know if this is noob scum or noob town or if it's even really an excuse at all.
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@WyIted
Is there any reason why Austin would respect you more than anyone else here?Is he intimidated by you for some reason that you can sense?Like maybe he perceives you as socially dominant or he thinks of you as a God of mafia and that is why he would be really worried about you?
Not really, I mean if he thinks I am scum he will pursue me pretty aggressively. See Maharabarrata. I was basically a double confirmed doctor( I had cc'ed savant and then tested myself on him when he was an unlynchable town caliming to be a hunter, and I hammered him) and he STILL thought I was scum in LYLO. Both of us were town. If you notice he is more passive to me or something it could be based on that game, maybe he isn't trying to push as hard.
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@Moozer325
I’d actually put earth also in slight scum just due to a lack of activity, but the same could be said about me too.Also, I’m not saying we should do this, but just to put it out there, VTNL is an option. I figure someone should at least mention it each game.
Yeah there is no way you are caught up here if your saying this, after caseys claim
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@Moozer325
Savant: Not super scummy or anything, but is somehow always giving me a not incredibly town vibe. So far, if I had to lynch anyone right now it would be him, but it’s DP 1 and I haven’t been that active anyways. Besides, he’s always scummy for some reason.
Were you caught up when you made this post?
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@Savant
A few things:1. Town protective roles can be on me tonight as long as they don't reveal themselves today. If I just said I was confirmable, I'd be a target for a night kill but the doctor or whoever wouldn't bother to protect me.
I mean they are gonna have to be now. Always assuming we even HAVE a protective role. Means mafia knows they get a free night kill literally anywhere else. It wasn't worth it.
2. The last time Austin accused me, I got lynched, and would likely have still gotten lynched if no one counterclaimed doctor. At this point I have no clue what will or won't make him scum read me, so better to stop the train early so we don't waste time. With this many votes, I'd have been forced to claim anyway and it would look more suspicious later.
TBF I am not 100% sure you would have gotten lynched in that game without the CC. I hadn't caught up enough to know whether or not I had scum read you yet at that point, but I saw the doctor thing and was like "nah nah nah".
3. Austin needs to go. He's smart enough that the only explanation I can think of for this is that he's scum and knows I'm town. Didn't even bother to explain why he scum read me and wants me to do that work for him. He's been breadcrumbing this accusation from earlier in the day phase, and I think he just latched onto Wylted's train hoping that his last successful lynch of me would get him towncred.
He's smart enough too to know this puts him in the spotlight, especially if he was to succesfully pull of a mislynch on you. Austin's aggression unfortunately is consistent with his town play in both mahabaratta, and invincible.
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@AustinL0926
@Savant
I scumread him because it looked like he was pretty much coasting on his "first to claim" thing which means close to nothing in terms of towncred imo yet apparently he thought it makes him unlynchable this DP? yea not rly sure where that comes from.Also nice OMGUS.unvote
Though to be fair to savant this is kind of a bad reason to suspect him. I didn't get the vibe that he was begging for town cred and he even pointed out that he was wrong to some degree with that logic given mafia could just claim their own games. Still feels town v town to me so far. But I definitely don't think savant should have claimed because of this pressure.
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@Savant
I'm the cop. Go ahead and lynch me though
What? Why ?! From pressure from one person? Come on...
Oh, and VTL Austin
OMGUS here might lead to some town v town bloodshed. Austin tends to be pretty aggressive/tunnel vision as town. Something to keep in mind. I dealt with this in mahabarata.
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@WyIted
I am personally friends with a black chick who gets white guys to fuck her by pretending to be Italian. She's hot and I admit I fell for it. So do not have any qualms about lying about your race or denying your heritage. It will get you laid.
r/ihavesex
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@Casey_Risk
Alright. Anyway, since I view it as a negative utility role, I'm just going to come out and say that I'm the scapegoat. If there's a tie in voting at the end of a day where we vtnl, I get lynched.
I definitely don't view this role really as negative utility, but I can see where you got there. Either way, this role being outted doesn't necessarily hurt town either, other than maybe you could have baited a night kill (that's what I would have done with that role).
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@Savant
catching up now, and yes my work schedule is why I havent been on today. I am off for the weekend though so should be more active
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@Savant
Same reason I don't think two doctors would be in the game. I think Pie would spread out roles.
They are all very different themes though, only thing they have in common is dealing with the government, but pie is a government junkie
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@AustinL0926
I honestly think we're all overestimating the chance of scum fakeclaiming here tbh. Like can anyone tell me what would be the benefit of doing so as compared to scum just claiming their real game?
Im fine with them claiming from their real game, its just nice to know they are locked into that subset of roles and have to be careful about what they claim because of it. Its not like they can't fake claim, just that it narrows their options down a bit from where they were otherwise.
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@Savant
So we have a claim for US Senate mafia, US House of Reps mafia, and US Governors mafia. I don't think it's likely that all three are in the game.
Why?
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@WyIted
I disagree that negative utility roles should claim but I don't have the energy to defend that position. I guess maybe PGO should but not Miller.
Its all fun and games until the cop investigates the miller and then no one believes the person copped was miller.
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Gonna shower before work here soon and i'll be back on here in a couple of hours.
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I guess it should be stated that SOP claims, like Miller, Paranoid Gun Owner/Granny, and negative utility roles in general should probably claim.
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@AustinL0926
I'm feel vaguely unsettled so far because I have a slight townread on everyone except Savant, who I scumread even in games where he's town.
Why is that? I generally have the same paranoia with whiteflame, because I feel he plays similar as either affiliation for the most part.
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Game Claims in order of how fast they were claimed:
Savant- US Senate
Lunatic- Ancient Roman Battles
Earth- Civil War Generals
Wylted- Throne of Glass Mafia
Whiteflame- The Legend of Zelda (Ocarina of Time)
Austin- Governors Mafia
JoeBob- 13 Reasons Why
Moozer- Narcos
Casey- US House of Representative
Savant- US Senate
Lunatic- Ancient Roman Battles
Earth- Civil War Generals
Wylted- Throne of Glass Mafia
Whiteflame- The Legend of Zelda (Ocarina of Time)
Austin- Governors Mafia
JoeBob- 13 Reasons Why
Moozer- Narcos
Casey- US House of Representative
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@Moozer325
Okay yeah, it’s the Narcos mafia. Not sure what that is, but that part was written in English.
Pretty sure I remember everyone getting their role PM's in spanish in that game, so it checks out.
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@AustinL0926
I agree on that lol. I think in Mahabharata a plan which involved every townie working together got defeated just by WF's roleblocker. I feel like Pie designs his games well enough that a massclaim won't bring significant benefit.
Lol which is why you were frustrating me in that game because you were scumreading me, but also calling out who I should be protecting each night lol. I felt like if I didn't follow who you were telling me to protect, we would just keep having the same argument about my intentions etc, meanwhile whiteflame knew he never had to worry about a doctor protection and could roleblock the other power roles freely lmao.
Case in point, we probably shouldn't tell the mafia who we are targeting unless we are using it to WIFOM or bait out actions. Or maybe I shouldn't have listed to your suggestions and just done whatever anyway lol. I am at fault for that too.
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@AustinL0926
Or they could have just claimed their actual game, right?
They would have to yeah given what we are doing here. Stuck with whatever roles in the game they have
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@whiteflame
Point taken. I’m generally averse to giving scum information wherever I can avoid it, particularly in a game where they can ask questions like this, but you’re right that there are benefits to at least locking some players into their games.
I think as far as spilling town information goes, we generally agree with each other. I'd rather not have an excess of actual claims coming out dp1 either, based on the POE it gives mafia to work with if they are all town claims for example. I think Dart has developed a bad habit of pushing many claims early. It has worked a few times, because mods have a tendency to make townies overly confirmable, but not every game is going to be like that, and we can see a few cases where this has bit town in the butt.
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@AustinL0926
I'm referring to leaving things at just a charclaim rather than getting into more specific roleclaims (which was my initial idea to try and break the game)
Ah okay, I get you.
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