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@Barney
Holocaust denial is all about the need murder any surviving Jews. Trying to separate it, would be like trying to separate out the orange from the citrus fruit.
Either the user endorsed genocide or they didn’t. The fact that you didn’t answer Savant’s question directly is because you’re strawmanning the user’s position, but don’t want to admit it.
Playing this moral high ground by virtue-signaling this SJW angle makes no sense when you’re completely comfortable with Wylted’s anti-semitism.
So either you don’t really care at all, or you only care when it’s convenient for you.
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@Barney
If this was a conspiracy to keep genocidal white supremacists from knowing they're not welcome here, I would not have done it so publicly as to even post about it in the public moderation log. Rather the ban reason in his profile would just read "bot" with no public statements, and then no one would complain.Instead, we're quite open that there is a level of filth unwelcome here.
That's perfectly acceptable, and congrats on that. They are filth and shouldn't be welcome.
Now please answer the following question.:
- How did the user in question call for genocide and white supremacy?
Because while it is your job to get rid of filth like this.
It is also your job to convince us or make an effort to prove to us that they fall into this category.
And you wiped their profile, so hopefully you can provide the clarification you erased.
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@Vader
Happy birthday, Vader
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@Vader
I've said this to the mods so this isn't something that is coming out the blue to them, but I fully disagree with wiping the slate clean of that user before some users had adequate time to review the users posts. I think it's a disservice to the community as a whole to not at least have screenshots of the post, or an alternative is to give an adequate timeline of when the posts will be deleted so that people can be informed and actually look. I presented this to the mods and they were in agreement and we are looking on a solutionI can't speak of the user and the ban itself since I, obviously, didn't get to see the users posts
Thank you for being direct and forthcoming on this.
And yeah, I'm inclined to agree with you.
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@Mharman
Nice power trip. To be frank, I had a feeling something like this was coming the second David’s bitchass decided RM was worth a shot.
To be fair to David, it was actually Barney's idea to promote RM. Barney bears the full burden of that responsibility alone.
The other mods just supported that decision and then changed course, when they realized it was a lapse of judgment. But that mistake alone is Barney's, even if the mods share a little bit of blame.
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@Mikal
Yeah, I agree.
The ban on Lashwnda is perfectly justified, in my opinion.
But everything about chap470 has been wiped, and there doesn't appear to be sufficient reasoning for it. It's not necessarily that I am against the decision (my support or opposition is contingent on the reasoning), but certain details and clarification are required.
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@Barney
Quoting myself here.:
If chap470 was calling for hate or persecution in anyway against jews, then a permanent ban is an appropriate response.However, if the ban was simply because of his belief that the holocaust did not happen, then that’s not a proportional or fair response.
The justification of his ban is contingent on one thing.: Whether he did this or not.
You did not clarify this, you left it vague.
Did he call for violence or persecution against jews, or is his only offense that he denied the holocaust? Did he call for ethnic cleansing, or is this your own interpretation?
There is a difference here.
His ban is justified, if certain details of the criteria are fulfilled. And you are withholding information.
Can you quote verbatim what chap470 said, that warranted his ban? And why those standards were not also applied to Wylted?
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Christianity didnt exist yet. Thus they had not rejected Christ. If I have Muhammad Ali as a pfp am I suddenly s Muslim?
You said my pfp is cultural/religious appropriation.
Spartans were pagan, and you are catholic. All christians denounce paganism as heresy, and by your own logic, you are culturally appropriating it.
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@ResurgetExFavilla
Also, this debate is apparently fine:Seems like incredibly heavy-handed and ideologically driven censorship, and a bad sign of things to come.
I am fine with tolerating debates like these, or cutting down on it.
But we need consistency and transparency above anything else, for the community to be prepared and adjust. Nobody should be taken off-guard with subtle changes that come as surprises.
Going from 0 to 100 is unnecessary.
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@whiteflame
@Mharman
@Savant
Yeah, I am in agreement with Savant.
It was probably a group decision, but I'm unsure that this was whiteflame's idea.
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@Mharman
The mods rarely seem to respond if you tag two or more at a time.
In my experience, you only get a response if one of them is tagged.
You're going to have to single one out.
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I have advocated for stricter enforcement on regulation, but my current understanding of what happened leads me to believe this punishment was slightly extreme.
If chap470 was calling for hate or persecution in anyway against jews, then a permanent ban is an appropriate response.
However, if the ban was simply because of his belief that the holocaust did not happen, then that’s not a proportional or fair response.
Consider that Remy got away with a lot more.
Wylted himself has aggressively denied the holocaust in the discord server, as well as used a Hitler pfp but managed to get off free with only a warning.
ADreamOfLiberty and Lucy.Starfire have argued for much worse, but have not been banned.
If the moderation enforcement is to be stricter, that’s perfectly acceptable. But it needs to be gradual, consistent, and full disclosure.
Which raises a few questions.:
- What did chap470 say that qualifies as hate speech? Was it merely his denial of the holocaust? Details matter.
- Was chap470 issued a formal warning before his ban?
If regulation is to be stricter, then this needs to be crystal clear. Like what views are allowed, and what views aren’t allowed.
There can be no miscommunications or room for misunderstanding.
Going from 0 to 100 too quick makes no sense.
At the very least, chap470 is entitled to a formal warning or temporary ban because they are a new user.
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@21Pilots
What are your favorite subjects or topics to debate?
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David has never clarified why he has acted against WF's ways for the past few bans or thread cleanups.Has WF changed?They do ignore me. Yet if I ignore Mikal the same is called cowardice. In 1 way you want me to debate Mikal with pure transparency.In another, you want them to operate as spies. Which is it?I am content with either. Which do you support?
Don’t worry about it. All this begging, groveling, and subservience won’t earn their forgiveness.
It’s not as if you ever had any actual power or influence. You’re just a puppet ruler for your nonexistent rebellion.
Prove you’re not spineless by accepting Mikal’s challenge if you have any dignity left.
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@David
@whiteflame
As a neutral observer who keeps witnessing these site political spam protests by the same guy, I'm going to encourage you guys to ignore him.
In-fact don't even entertain his nonsense. Keep any conversations about the leadership hierarchy between you two. Any differences of opinion that are openly expressed will show weakness and incentivize him to keep up this same crap.
The same guy who keeps advocating for this needs to be tamed, so he can respect the true chain of command instead of constantly undermining it.
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@whiteflame
I agree. This post should be taken down for campaigning misinformation and tampering with data.
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There have been several times you used those emojis to reinforce your false confidence.
It's usually when you've already lost but are too afraid to admit it.
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Let's be clear here.: I am fine with you being a mod.
If you were the head mod leading this site, I would be fighting against you every step of the way to dethrone you from power.
Losing wouldn't really make a difference to me, as I could always leave the site. But I know this is your whole life, your whole identity.
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Do you realise being a teacher's pet on a website is not a flex?Like this is tbe most cringe sycopjantic flex ever.The moment I hot modded you were licking my boots too and ADOL was your punching bag.You are transparently manioulative and sycophantic.
You were the powerhungry bootlicker all along.
If you want to know anything about being a sycophant, then look in the mirror.
If I was a sycophant, I wouldn't have openly disagreed with you on your own policies or your version of moderating.
So let's crack down to what your problem really is.: I showed genuine support towards you. You're just angry that I wasn't kissing your ass like you expected me to.
Don't even call anyone else a sycophant when your whole identity revolves around begging, groveling, and snitching for those in power.
That is Projection 101 and is deflecting the actual issue. Nobody here respects you.
Did you seriously not talk about how you were against ADOL in the discord and in the forums?
Why are you now changing your tune?
2 years ago, you were whiteflame's suckup, but he didn't do what you wanted him to do.
Now he's your enemy. This is probably why he respects me more than you.
You're even now claiming to be upset that I'm simply pointing out a fact by mentioning that I'm closer to whiteflame, when you did the same to Best.Korea.
You can't even bring yourself to realize your own hypocrisy.
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You see people to fixate on, I see concepts and agendas.
Is that why you’re threatened by me being closer to whiteflame and David than you will ever be?
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@whiteflame
We can also do rematches where we switch between Pro and Con.
You’re going to be out of retirement for a while!
You’re going to be out of retirement for a while!
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@whiteflame
@Savant
Here’s how I believe my training should look like. Drilling, Sparring, & Voting. (The aim here is for me to memorize the script & rehearse it over and over again.)
We will choose 1-2 topics in a certain subject. Savant and whiteflame will be my sparring partners. I will debate them both on the subjects with a short time-window multiple times.
This is sufficient enough for me to grasp the basics and fundamentals of what I’m arguing. The research and everything else committed to memory is all that I need.
That is how I prefer the training to go.
If you have any suggestions, I’m open to them. But this is the method and formula I use for all of my video debates.
What do you guys say?
(And whiteflame. If you make a refined version of Barney’s voting manual, but style it as a guide to your voting framework specifically. I’ll have a bulletproof way to debate all the time.)
Think WeaverOfFate’s way making a metrics-based voting system
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@Mharman
I will note that Vaush, Destiny, HasanAbi, are very easy to destroy in a debate if you can sidestep their gishgallop and catch a few of their many fallacies. They are not skilled debaters, they are skilled actors who look more dominant in debates than they are.
Also, Mharman is right.
Anyone can take either of these chumps.
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@Savant
I think whiteflame is the favorite to be our representative. These platforms are pretty different from formal debates, and oftentimes it's more of a conversation format where you don't really have time to establish a framework or make a super formal argument. To win the crowd, you really do have to be winning on almost every point. If openings are allowed, that's a big help, but they're usually only a few minutes long. Plus there's a decent amount of interrupting.To prepare WF, here's my plan: we basically have a 3v1 or something debate in VC where three of us are constantly challenging WF with studies/new arguments/etc. Once he gets good at fending off three people in real time, live debating should be a walk in the park.
But I have more experience than whiteflame in casual and informal debate, especially in a video setting.
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Lucy, we could be MDD lev and bigger if we enforced rules better. Cleaned this up.Made it a place Destiny and whoever else feel good showing off and participating in.
Destiny would thrive in this environment. His toxicity makes the average DDO troll look tame by comparison. And he would get banned quickly under stricter or tighter moderation.
How much of Stephen Bonnell's content have you watched?
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@Savant
It’s an excellent idea
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This is not complicated.
For you, it appears to be.
Self-serving, delusional, and hypocritical all while pushing your agenda.
One moment, you are on Barney’s side. Then you’re against him.
The next moment, you’re vouching for David and unfriend him without even verifying that he betrayed you first. Now he’s back in your good graces because he’s taking over the website.
You are so flimsy that you can’t make your mind up about a single person here.
Don’t lecture anyone here about loyalty or friendship. Stick to playing games with your site politics while those that actually care focus on meaningful change.
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Bootlicking David is what you did to gain admin status in his discord server. Backstabbing means Id have had to fake charm him and promise loyalty to him and then backstab. If that was my plan, Id have acted far more careful.I cannot backstab someone I openly oppose.
I didn't praise David or request admin privileges; I raised a valid criticism and was granted them.
Meanwhile, you swore your devotion to David and promised obedience. Groveling and begging to anyone in-charge that will listen to you.
It's cringe and pathetic.
Do you feel it is commendable to have your cycles of having the back of someone publicly that yoy the break down tear and and degrade the moment they seem weak?You are even trying it on Fishchaser, it is a really strange habit. You actually remind me of him in some ways.
And on top of it, you leaked FishChaser's personal info to me that he told you in confidence.
I had your back before, and then you lost my respect. Nobody owes you anything, not even blind loyalty.
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@Savant
There's nothing commendable about it.
He goes through a pattern of breaking down and then putting on his act of crocodile tears to regain sympathy, then goes back on his apology and reverts back to his original personality.
Just a washing machine repeating the cycles.
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One day you will realise how abusive you are and it will sicken you.
You are a sissy pushover that can't make your mind up about people.
You always were effeminate, but this is going from 100 to 1000.
This whole post is the epitome of you bootlicking David, so you can regain the opportunity to backstab whiteflame.
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@Savant
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But Adaptable. This is what you wrote.
You forgot, so this is just a reminder.:
I am not sure how to fix myself. If there is a god I cry in appreciation of the mercy shown to let me have gotten away with being such a prick for so long. I got protected a LOT by god and do believe in one. Again, I know I write this, feel this and in a couple days need to fight myself reverting. I am just saying I see it now. I didn't see it before. Not really. Not ever. In my eyes I was always reacting, responding, yet I was instigating and provoking too.I want to formally apologize for selfish reasons to get it off my chest also so that this is the last post that defines me which is a privilege Id not even have if David had had his way and banned me and maybe was right to want that.To make this at least seem less of my attention seeking bullcrap Ill be specific in my eloquent way (the eloquence is real, egotistical or not).Airmax, if somehow you see this via others, I am sorry and grateful too for you seeing me as the troubled guy I was and having mercy always.Bench, Sir Lancelot, Ramshutu, Wylted, Lunatic, all of you. I allowed my pain and agitation to cloud me. Sorry means nothing here. I understand if you all think I'm a shithead. I really see it now, it hurts and I am writing this before my ego blinds me and before I detox from all social media.Mikal, sorry for assuming the worst. I do not grasp charity of the sort you got, blame my autism blame anything. There are many members perhaps including me that needed such money to help us gain independence or pay bills/fees. We needed it as bad and I do not get why you get to be the favorite saved one yet look at me.Just look at me. The toxicity I got away with.I helped build DART up from scratch but I tarnished it all the way through as well. I think it is a lie to say sorry for how I acted alone. I am sorry for acting at all. Even to myself. I tried to soothe pain of being a pathetic loser IRL stuck in a super toxic situation that covid lockdown exacerbated and was never truly mentally well.
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@Savant
Hey Savant, how are you?
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@Mikal
Adaptable has unfortunately decided not to accept this challenge.
Is it okay with you if I accept and debate this on his behalf?
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@Castin
Can I DM you
Oh god, say no.
Or you’re going to get spammed with 15 messages too.
It’s the same story, copied and pasted over and over again.
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@Castin
Not your fault.
It happened too quick, nobody noticed.
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@Castin
Don't know what Rat did (can't find this supposed thread threatening to ban mafia players) but I imagine he'd try to go Super Saiyan pretty quick if given power.
Rat went so Super Saiyan that his mod powers maxed out and went back to zero all in a split second.
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Satan was with me before, now God is.
And Satan sometimes pretends to be God.
How can you tell the difference?
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@Castin
So it was Barney. I thought it was David, since that seems to be the only staff member Rat still likes.
Oh goodness no.
David’s decision-making would never be that flimsy.
Adaptable doesn’t even like David, he’s just using him to enforce his agenda.
But David isn’t falling for that
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The revolution is coming.
Several years too late.
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@Castin
I feel like there's a lot of Barney backstory I'm missing. I gotta stop going on hiatus.
He had a lapse in judgment, promoted Ratman to mod. Then came to his senses and changed his mind.
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I have 3 different styles I switch between, depending on the user and resolution. Sometimes I miscalculate and underestimate people.
Low-effort and minimalistic against weaker opponents. Victories are usually through a technicality or semantic trap. Cheap wins.
Against equal opponents. Establishing a framework and then providing anecdotes, supporting a specific contention. All my examples and reasons will be cliches, generic, and basic arguments. https://www.debateart.com/debates/6174-it-is-more-likely-that-the-biblical-doctrine-of-jesus-is-heavily-inspired-by-the-lore-of-dionysus
Against stronger opponents. I will be hyper-aggressive and double down on establishing a bulletproof BOP and framework. You can expect a very formalized gish-gallop with strong constructive arguments. Along with source spam. I might even repeat certain points i’m focused on, for clarification and so that voters remember it.
Whiteflame is the best debater on the site, so i’m debating very competitively in our Kirei vs Kiritsugu debate.
He admitted to me that I have the stronger side, but that doesn’t mean i can get lazy. One slip-up against him could mean defeat.
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@Castin
Don't think I'd feel very protected under an authoritarian religious regime. You just told zed to shut up or face the fires of hell because he spouted irreligiosity. Hate to think what you'd say to me if you really knew me. Don't mind hearing that fire and brimstone shit from other users, but if I heard it from staff? No thanks. Time to leave.
Blame Barney
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@fauxlaw
You might be waiting a while.
Mike once again keeps being a flake and leaving David on read.
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@fauxlaw
If you create a new account and start using it from now on, the browser technical issue would be fixed.
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@Barney
@FishChaser
Thank you Barney.
And FishChaser, you’re on thin ice with the staff. They’re gonna perma-ban you if you keep up these shenanigans and foul-talk, and we can’t jeopardize your parole. Capiche?
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@David
@Barney
@Vader
@whiteflame
Could one of you lift his ban?
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