Instigator / Pro
53
1587
rating
182
debates
55.77%
won
Topic
#4604

Rap Battle: Sir.Lancelot vs RationalMadman

Status
Finished

The debate is finished. The distribution of the voting points and the winner are presented below.

Winner & statistics
Better arguments
21
15
Better sources
16
8
Better legibility
8
4
Better conduct
8
5

After 11 votes and with 21 points ahead, the winner is...

Sir.Lancelot
Parameters
Publication date
Last updated date
Type
Rated
Number of rounds
4
Time for argument
Three days
Max argument characters
10,500
Voting period
One month
Point system
Multiple criterions
Voting system
Open
Minimal rating
1,750
Contender / Con
32
1709
rating
564
debates
68.17%
won
Description

(RationalMadman: You aint on my level. We never rap battled as each other, btw. Try it.)

Okay, deal.
------------------

This will be a No-Hold's Barred.

To avoid any errors or confusion, there will be rules and a framework set-up for voters.
Above all else, anyone can vote. But read the rules with careful consideration.

Rules:

1. This is a No-Hold's Barred between both myself and Rational.

2. The actual track for music itself does not count as actual points. Meaning neither me nor Rational can be penalized for choosing a beat the voters do not approve of.

3. All 7 points are assigned to whoever you think won.

4. Voters are not expected to know much about rap, so here are the following qualities you will judge on for both rappers in your RFD.
(On a scale of 1-4)
Lyricism:
Flow:
Diss:
Rhyme:
You will be required to actually read the raps from both sides and analyze your favorite lines.

5. No troll votes or vote-bombing.
You are expected to read the entire rap battle to even be voting.

(Any changes can be made before the acceptance of the debate at the request of Con. No one else aside from RationalMadman can accept, unless stated otherwise by me in the Comments.)

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@FishChaser

Do you have any interest in doing a Hall of Fame writeup for this debate?

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@Barney

I nominate fishchaser

This debate is going into the HoF, would anyone care to provide a write-up on it?

Round 3 YT beat got made private.

This beat will work just as well for it:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eNoG21hkbrM

Okay I realised the duration now.

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@Barney
@whiteflame
@oromagi

There has been no official post to the Moderation Log about the duration or full reasoning of the ban on Lancelot.

Maybe nobody else needs or wants it except me but I want (please and thanks) to see and understand more than the oneliner on his profile and to know the duration.

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@DebateArt.com

While instances like this are thankfully rare, this does exemplify why it would be useful for moderators to be able to remove votes even after the voting period has closed.

Even without correcting ELO, this would still mitigate the impacts of such poor faith voters.

While the exact ELO shifts are lost to the system; treating a changed outcome as two wins for a fresh ELO shift would be a decent approximation.

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@Savant

At least add time to the equation. For example, account must be old at least 30 days old to vote.

Current standard is too easy to bypass for anyone in just 1 day, and to abuse.

We want quality votes, not the mere number.

I agree with your idea to be able to remove votes after a voting period. That idea was proposed before, but never got implemented.

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@Best.Korea

Regardless of how complex the criteria are, someone will be able to get past it. And some debates get zero votes, so we'd be making that problem worse.

Might be better to just give a 24-hour window after voting concludes for mods to remove troll votes. Right now anyone can vote 2 minutes before the deadline and swing the outcome with no recourse.

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@whiteflame

Will this serve as a reason for change in requirements that users need to have to be able to vote on rated debates?

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@Savant

Voting requirements should be higher than doing a few troll debates. This is an obvious example that should serve as a reason.
I have never seen a bigger vote spam than this, and the fact is that these vote spams can change outcomes of any rated debate.

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@Best.Korea
@Savant

I’ll confirm Savant’s response. They had a number of debates against one another, all of which I deleted.

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@Best.Korea

They did troll debates against each other, but those have since been deleted.

How were those accounts able to vote? Some of them have no activity at all and are a day old.

It is. That is why you were happy for Sting and Boba tea doing it.

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@Devon

Thanks, but this isn't really how I wanted to win.

Oh for fuck's sake.

This shit couldn't have happened at a worse time.

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@Sir.Lancelot

Congrats on the win my brotha

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@whiteflame
@Bella3sp
@Savant

Everything I want to say would violate the code of conduct in some way.

I will just note that everything I said in the rap battle was proven irrefutably true.

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@Bella3sp

Suffice it to say that I clearly got to this too late. For the moment, I'm doing what I can to handle it and investigating the situation.

"Con won this by a large margin"

*proceeds to vote for Pro*

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@Barney
@whiteflame

I doubt guys will get to it because of voting period is ending very soon, but I thought I'd let you know just in case you do log on before then.

Clear vote-bombing and alt accounts here with the last five votes, do you mind taking a look and removing?
They of course, did it in the last few minutes.

I have waited for a long time to truly flex my username choice in a rap battle here though. That line where I use my username was the exact type of syllable flexing I made this username for even on DDO as I realised it would come in handy if I ever entered a rapping debate.

I have gone far in (a) poetry competition(s) btw. I just lacked the passion to risk it all and do that professionally. I am more logical than creative, on balance.

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@Savant

Thanks for the vote.

I disagree that it was close but I can appreciate your scoring, excluding flow.

Where did Lancelot exactly ace flow? Regardless I am glad you saw that I was continually dishing out punchlines.

What I actually do is something most need drugs to achieve. I do not form a thought alone and rhyme to fit it, I sort of enter a stream of consciousness in pure madman mode while letting the beat consume me.

At times I will not deny using rhyme suggestion sites (esp in the past which led to me now barely having to anymore due to muscle memory of a mental sort). What I used to do years back was regularly do so, I had talent regardless from a young age at writing raps, not as much true talent at delivering that is something I need to refine if I ever want to go semi pro in any way as my lyrical style in writing is requiring a speedy delivery at times that has to be intense and vicious and that is not an easy delivery style to pull off albeit better than pure rapid chopping on the regular. I also do not always have the same true accent that would suit what I write here, I write to be smoother to a typical North America continent reader (US and Canada basically), ignoring regional twangs within and such.

I often write it in ways where both sharp ah a's and flat aa a's work as well as trying to make a lot work regardless of regional twangs.

I form the thing backwards. What I do often is realise the rhyming word(s) that could work and push my brain to make a thing in between that lands the punchlines hard again and again. It is lazy and yet looks like very hard work all at once. It helps that I am completely fluent in English, I am certain that a person who speaks English as a true foreign language cannot bring their brain to do what I do as I utilise my subconscious brain's English. It is unfair talent in some ways but I will not pretend that it is not also refined skill, I wasnt this slick 8 years back etc and a huge part of why was I often had no ckue what people go wow to or not. Over time I learned to be lazier with metaphors. Triple entendres are not worth building up at the sake of flow and rhyme scheme if your readers or listeners will ignore them a lot.

I learned where to slack vs what to keep. I could earn money ghostwriting for a pro or 2 but the way to truly ghostwrite for a proper pro requires either good contacts and prior reputation in the ghostwriting circles or to be with the spitter early on and build trust and a long term understanding. The real issue is you are paid next to nothing compared to their huge profit margin for spitting the lyrics so you need ones who will pay your proper royalty percentages while you stay nameless etc. It therefore leaves you torn between writing something too good vs just good for them.

That is why most rappers with ghost writers still sound so mediocre, it is that the ghost writer did not want to write something god tier and get fucked over so they bided their time before the artist would go for a contract and then stayed lazy anyway or just aren't that great.

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@Savant

That's a great vote.

Thanks for taking the time to read through it.

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@Athias

Thank you.

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@RationalMadman
@Sir.Lancelot

I'll take a look at this in the days to come and may (or may not) render a vote.

Removed for ineligibility
Boba_Tea
07.16.2023 08:32PM

RationalMadman

Lyricism = 4/4
Flow = 3/4
Diss = 2/4
Rhyme = 3/4

Sir.Lancelot

Lyricism = 2/4
Flow = 4/4
Diss = 4/4
Rhyme = 3/4

Lancelot wins by 1 point.

The truth is I was rooting for Rational by a long-shot. If the rules weren’t as they were, I would’ve given him the win because his lyricism is that much better.

However, Lancelot’s disses were the only redeeming quality that landed him in first place. In a No-Hold’s Barred, this is the priority.

Feel free to message me if either of you have any questions.

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@Best.Korea

Tyvm for the vote.

Ironically I think my Round 4 had the best flow but other than that I can see your logic and taste.

If you want to see the internal flow and rhyming to the longer lines with the word 'provoke' in them, message me, otherwise fair enough.

I actually believe you are not from US or Canada nor any english speaking nation? The reason I ask is solely to understand the accent and tempo of talking that you hear in your head while reading. A Korean reading English (if you are SK) would see the flow in the areas you said and not at all see it in my longer line because they emphasise vowels and such differently when even doing K-pop rapping etc.

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@Mps1213

Sup bro.

How are you doing today?

RM no I don’t have any interest in voting on this.

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@Slainte

Could you possibly walk me through Lancelot's flow and rhyming let alone how his lyricism is not a 0?

I am genuinely serious. I have tried hard to see what anyone other than FishChaser saw in this battle.

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@Slainte

No no, I mean how did Lancelot score anything in rhyme above a 1?

I have tried to read his rap in varying accents and tempos and every Round is a shitshow in rhyming.

I cannot see his rhyming skill at all. He is writing non rhyming text for nearly the entirety of round 4 for example.

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@RationalMadman

I have said many a time that the rhythm you have in your head is not clear based on how it is written. The inflexion, and cadence etc. So while something may not read like it has good rhymes, it may sound better if spoken with the style you are looking for. You admitted just as such yourself.

I dont know why you keep badgering me about it. This is the reason I said I would not vote rap debates anymore.

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@Yassine
@Tejretics
@Intelligence_06
@Nyxified
@YouFound_Lxam

Do you have any interest to vote on this possibly? Idc if it is against me.

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@Vader
@Mps1213
@AustinL0926
@the_quiet_poet9
@Pevensie

Do you have any interest to vote on this possibly? Idc if it is against me.

Ty in advance if you vote.

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@blamonkey
@zedvictor4
@Lemming
@Average_Person
@Best.Korea

Do you have any interest to vote on this possibly? Idc if it is against me.

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@Greyparrot
@Barney
@whiteflame
@oromagi
@Bella3sp

Do you have any interest to vote on this possibly? Idc if it is against me.

How did Lancelot get 4 out of 4 rhyme in this?

Like what am I reading? I cannot fathom what accent he rhymes in. Every round it is dogshit rhyme scheme and flow.

How

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@Slainte

Could you possibly walk me through the scores you gave and give me examples?

Specifically rhyme?

I am genuinely confused how the final round of Pro even rhymes for the majority of it... I just seriously reread it to see what others see in it and can't believe that even counts as rap LOL

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@Savant

Same with you, please read it all and vote. Thanks in advance, regardless of who you vote.

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@Athias

Out of curiosity does something like this interest you at all to vote on?

I am aware that you tend to like simpler flows and thus Lancelot may be to your taste more in that sense but regardless I encourage you to read it to the end and vote.

I am losing regardless at this point, if you vote for me, so I have nothing to lose requesting this.

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@RationalMadman
@Sting

> "I am done reacting. You poked the bear. Enjoy your time here."

No threat detected. Certainly a statement which implies dislike, but nothing which implies any intent to inflict harm.

Removed for ineligibility
Sting
07.16.2023 12:47PM
Reason:
sirlancelot
lyrics 4
flow 3
roast 4
rhyme 3

rationmcman
lyrics 2
flow 1
diss 2
rhyme 4

lancelot has better lyrics and disses. they were easy for me to understand. macman doesn’t know how to write very good or carry a tune, his lyrics were very choppy, but it’s ok because not everyone listens to rap

all of the rounds got very brutal and poetic so i give disses and lyrics to lancelot. he also makes more sense so he gets better flow but macman uses more rhymes.

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@Barney
@whiteflame
@oromagi

Lancelot is enabling people to vote on debates that shouldn't even be able to vote on them yet via spamming troll debates and then asking them to vote in his favour here as a returned thing.

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@Boba_Tea

Thank you!

I’ll probably vote on this tonight or tomorrow