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@Mikal
I’m not sure I buy the compulsive visitor shit. Inb4 he would never do that as scum. 3 games he’s did it and every-time I get this gut feeling I’m right. Almost 100 percent on my scum call outs with him. Just vividly remember arguing with Luna over something similar in my first game back. “Wf would not do something so lazy” and I called it out in the first page and was right. I’m getting those same vibes again.
I just don't think he would try a scummy role when it didn't work last time. Also I just really hate pushing people on role claims over behavior in general.
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@ILikePie5
Do you townread Wylted?
kinda but I buy his claim for now. Also hes been kind of not as active which resembles his town play from last game, where I feel like as scum he's a little more motivated to post.
What’s your read on Casey?
I town read her early posts. I'll prolly be more suspicious of her if she derails the supa lynch, like I am getting the vibe she is but it could just be that I have had unpopular opinions this day phase and shes just finding it hard to buy anything I say, which is annoying but fair. I haven't been selling people that great, maybe on account of the fact I told town I hope they would lose earlier lol.
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@Casey_Risk
I don't really think this is that damning tbh. Especially considering the last sentence of his post.
I don't see how that last line changes things, but you've been absolutely contrarian to everything I have said this day phase so far, so I guess that's to be expected at this point.
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@Casey_Risk
It's funny that you bring this quote up, because I feel like he's acting similarly here, acting as though he's bound to be mislynched today no matter what even though the wagon on him has actually been cool for a little while now.
I mean he didn't get that way til 800 posts in though, is the big difference, and hes been a topic of discussion for a while now.
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Okay technically he unvoted here to do mikals vote test thing, but he never retracted his scum read on me.
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Also this is basically a slip, but supa just agreed with me that from my POV ref should be seen as scummy for defending him so much and being non committal about lynching supa. But supa was supposedly scum reading me, and currently his vote is still on me. So why would my pov even matter if he thinks I am scum?
This should be a red flag to anyone reading into supa.
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@Mikal
790 seems genuine as shit
Don't let him beguile you. If you knew supa you would know this is counter to behavior of his. He just admitted to lying because he didn't want it to be seen the wrong way lol. That's not what town supa does.
I distinctly remember a game called shocking tv moments (Thanks casey) where supa was a town compulsive roleblocker who got turned into a vanilla. He didn't read that message I guess and forgot to announce it off the bat dp2 and claimed he roleblocked joebob and apologizes for it: here: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/11684-shocking-tv-moments-dp2?page=2&post_number=31
"Normally if I make a mistake like this or think I have no hope, then I am gonna say screw it and just give up trying but since it's my first game back in a minute and for the game to end so early with a twist, I'll put some effort into ensuring that we don't mislynch here for some silly reason versus sulking at a mistake" 49
"I mean town are going to lose no matter what because the eventual train is going to come onto me and since the wagon is already building it's pretty much pointless to even argue. Best case scenario is we no lynch here and I just get lynched next DP. Fuck I absolutely screwed the pooch with this one." 50
I actually remember this and thinking "damn dude you sound pathetic, stick up for yourself a bit, it was a mistake town can understand that. "
As opposed to here where he just attempts to hide the fact that he messed up and hopes it goes un noticed rather than bringing attention to it. And it worked for him, he didn't end up getting lynched that game! So why would he change it up here and try to be sneaky? Doesn't make sense.
Anyways I am telling you to ignore your gut, I think it's wrong about whiteflame. Let's focus on facts and behavior and get this done. Your gut was wrong about me too so I think you just are getting yourself too paranoid.
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@Casey_Risk
I do know what you're talking about, but it wasn't nearly as recent as that. Shocking TV Moments
Thanks I was trying to find it and realize Vader doesn’t actually play a ton.
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@ILikePie5
Do you believe Shortsword is a Vanilla?
Meh if a loom is a power role it stands to reason that an attack item should grant some sort of utility or benefit but I’m more focused on his behavior. Also I don’t know anything of terraria
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Does anyone remember the game I am talking about and can reference it? It was semi recent like within 10 game or so
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@Vader
I also didn’t think it was enough of a big deal to try and correct and honestly thought it would go unnoticed. Sounds really bad but I believe I did those posts during work or right before and this week has been hectic so I honestly didn’t really care enough.
The time you were town and slipped I remember you making a big deal about it and drawing attention to it and trying to apologize and stuff. Now you hope to avoid the issue and hope people won’t notice…
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Notice ref hard defends Vader and only seems to consider the Vader wagon when hard confirmed Mikal suggests Vader could be scum or someone like pie does who he thinks has a lot of pull but he never seems willing to commit to it unless it seems like that’s the way it has to go. Hes being way too passive in the Vader issue, but trying to make it seem like hes willing to for town cred makes me think his actual willingness to lynch him is half hearted.
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If we lynch Vader and he’s scum I say we hard focus skeps (ref) next day phase.
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@Mikal
Like jumping on pies claim to super. I feel like 20 hours scum would want a mislynch. It’s really making me guess the case I started on supa. I pushed it and pie is on now wf is also asking about pies post.
The supa wagon has never been a thing. The most traction it got was 4 votes. I think scum are staying away from that wagon not taking advantage of it.
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Yeah I buy it. scum WF would come up with something better than that. Inb4 what about COD mafia?! You dont think he'd have learned from that one? Supa is still the lynch for me.
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@Mikal
You buy a compulsive visitor z?
Who claimed that and what was the claim?
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@Mikal
Right now I’m betweenYouPieOr sup
Only one out of these three id lynch is supa. Any others I will advocate against.
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@Castin
Would Supa really make such an obvious scum slip if he were scum. The inconsistencies are too obvious. Almost seems more believable as a PM misunderstanding/fumble.
If it walks and talks like a 🦆, sometimes it’s actually just a duck.
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@ILikePie5
Did anyone witness this?
I didn’t see it happen before it was deleted but he later made an ominous post addressing the issue that basically confirmed it had happened so I am treating it as fact.
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@Mikal
I think this may be a you thing lol.I was pressing pretty hard for item or non item and also if there are tiers. Very few people would have no idea what I’m talking about outside of a wiki.
Maybe a couple people agree with you here doesn't mean its just a me thing. But oh well.
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@ILikePie5
If it’s a theme I’m unfamiliar with I don’t need to look at the wiki if I’m town. I only look at wikis when I’m scum trying to claim or when I’m looking at other people’s claims trying to decide if their legit or not.
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@ResurgetExFavilla
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@ResurgetExFavilla
@ILikePie5
What makes you think they have 3 fake claims?
^^^^^^^
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@Mharman
David = Virtuso/ThinkBig/Socialpinko
Hold on…. Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat!?
I did not know David was social pinko wtf
Mind = blown
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@Casey_Risk
This is one of those things that varies from player to player. I myself looked up my own character on the wiki not long after this game began, mainly to make sure I gave accurate information when participating in the mass softclaim that Mikal was pushing. I don't think this is actually a particularly strong point here.
Agree to disagree then. Either way there’s not an alternative that isn’t me being presented and multiple claims are on the table so I’m sticking here until a better opportunity is available. Again supas best arguments haven’t been coming from him.
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@ILikePie5
Honestly, I think you and Supa are both scum. Your allegation is flimsy right now based on the way I read it, but Supa’s post responding to you sounded fake af.
lol okay pie if you say so
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@ILikePie5
Why is it a scum slip to look up a character in the wiki?
Because why would a townie need to look anything up to answer questions about their on when the mod provided them all the info they need to know in their role PM? The only time I look at wikis is when I am scum researching for information to support a fake claim.
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@ResurgetExFavilla
Trying to get a read on you. In case you haven't noticed, the wagon on Supa has evaporated. I just don't find your read on him as 100% convincing so it's of interest to me.
I’ve been alone in a wagon before. It is what it is. If someone can offer up a better alternative that isn’t me I’m all ears, but we have multiple claims at this point and supa is my best lead, I don’t really see a reason to pressure elsewhere and give mafia more information. Also note that it’s interesting the best arguments for supas defense aren’t coming from supa himself.
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@ILikePie5
Yet you’re a Strengthener?
Yeah, I said I’m not going to respond about my PM anymore. If you have issues with my behavior I’ll gladly respond to it, but it’s ridiculous to be pressured about my role when I full claimed willingly with only Mikal pressuring me and have been maintaining a consistent claim this whole time. Mharman made this claim not me. When I fake claim I do hours of research and try to blend in. You’ve seen my fake claims as town and scum. Why would I randomly drop the ball here in a 14 player game I’m excited about as opposed to just actually claiming my character and role so we can get the game back on track with pressuring real behavioral reads?
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@ILikePie5
What does silk have to do with strengthening?
Loom crafts apparel that strengthens a character. That’s what my PM says.
Dislike this claim a lot
Get in line then and yell at mharman when I flip innocent then. I can’t defend the PM other than say that that’s my honest claim and if I were lying you know I’d come up with something better than a damn strengthener.
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@WyIted
That's fair and I skipped like 5 pages is there anyone other than Vader on your scumlist?I think you have Mikal as town and I must have skipped why but don't know your reads other than that
Resurget seems to be going out of his way to defend Vader for him so if Vader is scum I think we should look into him. Ultra, banana, have been null and inactive, and are in the POE. You’re technically in the POE. Right now I’ve been mostly focused on whose been online and interacting.
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@ResurgetExFavilla
It's this:If he is slipping up reading his PM and he is reading off his actual PM, he could be doing that as town or scum. It's affiliation neutral.If he is slipping up because he is making up a fake claim and has no PM to read off of, it makes zero sense to do that as scum if he is going to claim vanilla.
the slip in question happened before he full claimed so the vanilla thing is irrelevant, if he was fake claiming he would have been planning on using that no matter what. The claim itself is NAI to the fact that he was reading the wiki to answer a question about his role as opposed to just reading it straight from his pm.
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@WyIted
I think lunatic is being pretty performative and seems to be feigning annoyance at being scum read ..VTL lunatic
being scum read is one thing. Being scum read because people don’t like the claim the MOD GAVE you is another thing when I could have easily lied as town and come up with a better one. Getting pushed based on my actual claim over behavior was what pissed me off.
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@ResurgetExFavilla
My take on it is that he needed a wiki to see what a 'category' was in Terraria, and judging from what the wiki said it would be understandably confusing as someone who knowns literally nothing about Terraria. To be honest I'm glad the role shit got conversation started but I never put much stock in Mikal's analysis of your role or yours of Supa's. The bottom of the line for me is motivation and behavior. From what I understand, Supa getting flustered when claiming is pretty normal regardless of affiliation. So I look for motivation. Vanilla is literally the worst fake claim to have as scum because you're expected to never move and will be lynched if you do and scum picks up on it. Why go out of the way to claim it? No matter what their fake claims were, I feel like they could be used to explain movement during the NP. So why go out of the way and make up a different claim that could be ccd to claim vanilla of all things? Just give me a scum motivation where that makes sense.
I don’t have a problem with The vanilla nor am I pushing him for that. If you think him needing to reference the wiki over his role pm is necessary we can agree to disagree. But I don’t think him claiming a vanilla is as much of a a saving grace as you think it is, and the only motivation he needs is to blend in with the rest of town after getting caught in a slip, so I don’t understand where you are going with that either.
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Scum having fake claims doesn’t mean they are immune to fvcking up.
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@ResurgetExFavilla
Lying about mod feedback is what sold me on the lynch, but now that that's 'deconfirmed' there's not a whole lot there really.
And yes i am deeply noting your continued defense of supa.
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@ResurgetExFavilla
The more I think about this the less sense it makes. What's the claim here? That scum were given three fake roles and fake claims and that Supa, a player who, from what I gather, is notorious for being unable to keep his story straight as scum or town, decides 'instead of taking one of these fake claims that are guaranteed to work, I'm going to invent my own fake claim?
It seems like he was forced to change based on circumstances that occurred in the game, either Mikal pushing for more information from soft claims or maybe not getting that much details from the fake pm. Sure we know mharman gave them claims, but we don’t know to what extent those claims were given, the specifics of the claims or anything.
All I know is if he was reading straight off his pm he wouldn’t be having inconsistencies with it. Like Mikal scum read me for my pm for being “different” than his and others but mine was always consistent because I read it straight from my role pm. Vader doesn’t read like he read his straight from his role pm and his story about his role pm keeps changing. I still don’t understand why he needed a wiki to answer Mikal’s question. If you know your own role you pull up your damn pm and read it. It’s really not that complicated but somehow with supa is was.
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@Vader
Yeah honestly 471 just seems like Luna being extremely opportunistic to force a mislynch at this point. The whole 200+ pages was about how Mikal got referenced a wiki article and how it was different from my role PM. Just seems like Luna is throwing shit out there now because he got all the pressure off him. Call this omgus idgaf but even a basic skim would’ve known it was Mikal wiki vs my role PM. Clearly not tryingVTL Luna
My argument has been consistent since I initially called you out for it in 232. Mikal has issues with something else than me entirely. I don't even necessarily get mikals full argument.
"Going to redo this because I got a mod clarification. I have no identifier and apparently I read this wrong. So my item does not have a category period. In the pm it was looked like 2 words when it really should’ve been 1. So no I have 0 sub category"
I asked you how you read your PM wrong and you said:
"I didn’t read it wrong. My role should’ve been 1 word, not 2. I was confused cuz the wiki showed 1 but the PM showed 2. I asked a question and got a clarification. Didn’t read this wrong"
I don't understand why you are using the wiki instead of just reading from your role PM.
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Taking it easy for the night, but my vote is prolly staying on supa unless we get a better lead, I still think he scum slipped and I don't like that he was referencing a wiki over his role pm.
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@Mikal
Yeah but for someone that doesn’t play. Short sword may seem like an item and not a category. Short sword isn’t an item at all btw.
Your losing me a bit here but if we can agree supa is scum that’s fine I guess
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@Mikal
Could have been on the wiki trying to figure out if he was a category. I totally missed where the wiki in giant bold fucking letters says “category”
That should be abundantly clear from his role PM though. Even with my role, which was 90% of the reason you sussed me for, I was always consistent that I wasn't a category, and that I was a specific crafting mechanism.
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@Mikal
I don’t even think that’s the selling point. The insta kill to me is his confirming to me. I asked and put the posts above. Did the mod tell you, you were a category and he said yes. After I said “can you confirm this”I dm Mharm“Can you confirm if I’m a category”“I can’t confirm that for players” - and links me the wiki. It’s just a direct contradiction. So either mod goof or he slipped. But I’ll take either one because it’s an outright lie.
His story isn't consistent regardless. And before when I asked him why he made the mistake he said it was because he was referencing the wiki. Why would he need to reference the wiki if he can just read it from his role pm?
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@Vader
My pm you said you are an item that comes in multiple sets. If that’s really the point of a mislynch idgaf cuz playing and constantly bickering for something out of control is useless and frankily fucking stupid
Kind of what I have been yapping about, but you didn't have sympathy for me when I did. The difference is your story is out of whack with your claim. I have been consistent with my claim and saying if there is something wrong, its the mods fault, but never changed my story about my claim once like you have.
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@ResurgetExFavilla
Trembling in my boots
Kind of defensive for someone whose been on the "luna is being defensive bandwagon" all day.
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@ResurgetExFavilla
Elaborate? I read this as him saying he thought it said 'short sword' and it said 'shortsword'. How are you reading it?
Your continued defense of Vader is noted.
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@Savant
Why phrase it as "a claim the mod gave me" and not "a role the mod created"? We know scum have fake claims, calling it a "claim" is almost saying it's fake.
Anything about my role pm I say is going to be phrased as a "claim" because it only stands on whether its believed by the collective.
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@whiteflame
I genuinely don’t have time to argue this like a debater and go line-by-line through your responses, even if I wanted to. Got more than enough on my hands at work. I just don’t love the fact that you keep saying I’m doing things that I’m not doing. I never said you were game throwing, and it’s weird that you’d think I wouldn’t consider evidence to the contrary of what I’ve already stated or would go so far as to dig far back into the archives to search for counter-examples.
What? I didn't say that you said I was game throwing, I pointed out that you are adding pressure (not necessarily with vote) on me based on my claim alone.
As for whether this matches previous games you’ve played as scum in terms of the thought you put into your claim, yeah, it doesn’t. It’s not consistent with how you behaved in that Microbiology game or what I saw you do there. Doesn’t mean it’s impossible that you’d behave this way as scum, but it’s something I’m considering.
Thankyou. At least you are being more open minded than mikal.
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@JoeBob
All I said was that I think something about your claim is off and that I couldn’t place it. I’m not bandwagoning anything.Some phrases/wording seems to be copied directly from the wiki. Now this could be either Mharman copying it himself for sake of people understanding it easier, or you going out on the fly and quickly making up a claim, which in fairness is not something I remember you doing, but I could be wrong.
Please focus on behavior then. Mislynching because of a claim the mod gave me is super gay.
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