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@Earth
Why were you fervently going after me and even voted me if, you think I am more likely to be town?
Because everyone is more likely to be town right now. The starting odds of anyone being town is 70%. Hard to have < 50% odds of being town in just the first day. That said, it's still better to lynch on day 1 than not.
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@ILikePie5
Could just ask Luna to post the vote count...
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@Earth
Should also note that scum lean just means your odds of being town are < 70%. You're still more likely town than not.
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@Earth
Can you explain how my scumlean works?
You don't have a lot of AI posts, so even though most of your posts are town leaning, the convenience of the role claim has a lot of weight. Also a few players are very towny, which makes everyone else more likely to be scum. If I didn't have a solid town block, for example, Pie would probably be a town lean.
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Lmk if tagging everyone on the long posts is annoying and I'll stop.
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@Earth
@WyIted
@Casey_Risk
@Moozer325
@iamanabanana
See above.
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iamabanana
- Scum Lean (66.5%)
- Playing as Town: JFdp1, JFdp2, JFdp3
- Playing as Scum: BBdp1, BBdp2
- #7 - TL - Posting early draws attention, and I don’t think scum would be inclined to do so without a joke or something to justify the post, seem natural, etc.
- #33, #41 - T - I don’t see scum Banana coming out and giving info about her role without being asked. She’s played a few games, so it’s possible for this to be a tactic, but I think scum wouldn’t play this risky.
- #198 - TL - I like how banana sticks to her guns here, and the answer seems focused on town perspective rather than just being defensive.
- #199 - TL - Putting pressure on inactives like this is a town concern, and her response before is long and noticeable enough that just voting for Moozer wouldn’t be done to divert attention. If banana were scum under pressure, I think she would focus on either putting pressure on Moozer or giving a sufficient defense (not both).
- #299 - SL - I don’t love that banana’s only post in a while is a defensive one, repeating a point they already made.
- #378 - TL - Defending Earth like this is townie when he could be a possible lynch today.
- #399, #417, #421 - SL - A bit OMGUSy and overly defensive, and the defense of Earth seems a bit opportunistic as a way to throw suspicion toward Mikal. She’s been focused on defense as scum before here and here, though I couldn’t really find a similar situation to compare that behavior to in her town game. (Although she seemed a bit more open and less accusatory in general as town.)
- #606 - TL - A lot of effort, I think it’s unlikely banana goes this far under pressure if she’s scum.
- #677, #678, #682 - TL - The continued pushing and amount of effort make the read on Mikal feels genuine, especially when banana isn’t the top lynch today.
- #694 - SL - The defensiveness is getting to the point of being excessive and more than I’d expect a town member to actually feel. And denying that it is defensiveness doesn’t really help.
Mharman
- Scum Lean (66.5%)
- Playing as Town: JFdp1, JFdp2, JFdp3
- Playing as Scum: CoDdp1, CoDdp2, CoDdp3
- #60, #61 - TL - Strategizing that doesn’t give off any red flags. There’s a question posed to Pie that could be manipulative but seems more like an attempt to get a read, and I like that. Don’t know that scum would have thought to do that.
- #105 - T - The read on Mikal seems genuine. I have a hard time seeing scum suspect someone and then give a reason why they actually might not be suspicious with zero pushback.
- #143, #144, #145 - TL - More questions that seem like they’re coming from a towny perspective, I don’t think scum Mharman would pretend not to know if scum have questions just to get town read.
- #291, #301, #310 - TL - If Mharman is scum here, then the strategy is probably to pursue a WyIted lynch or Pie lynch by throwing out seeds. Or allow Earth to be lynched by not defending him. But he defends inactives decently and defends the town core, so his thoughts seem more likely from genuine town trying to catch up and get thoughts out.
- #318 - TL - Mharman going back and forth on WF seems genuine. Idk if scum would be willing to seem inconsistent like this.
- #321 - SL - This post is pretty verbose, and rambling a bit is often a scum tell. Also could be planting potential seeds for a lynch without committing.
Earth
- Scum Lean (66%)
- Playing as Town: CoDdp1, CoDdp2, CoDdp3
- Playing as Scum: RRV2dp1, RRV2dp2, RRV2dp3
- #35 - TL - For an infrequent poster, drawing attention early without a need comes across as more instinctive to town than to scum.
- #117 - TL - I don’t think scum Earth would offer to out his show without prompting.
- #157 - TL - Pro-town imo to advocate this strategy, even offering a way to make it more feasible.
- #235, #239, #240 - T - So much agreement here (except on inactives), and I’ll give Earth more credit for this than someone like WF (who is very towny as scum). If anything, I might suspect that Earth is copying my reads, but overall his reasoning is close to what I would say.
- #350 - SL - Post justification makes sense, and if it’s fake Survivor probably used up the mafia fake claim, but it’s an easy role to fake claim and non confirmable. Also, the show started in 2000, not before. Not in town’s interest to claim here since it just narrows down power roles and loses all the role’s utility, but could be an attempt to get pressure off by claiming early, while the soldier should want suspicion on them to avoid the NK.
- #353, #359 - SL - Explanation seems iffy to me. There’s a good chance that Earth wanted to keep his claim options open earlier by saying after 2000 and then looked up roles in recent games.
- #603 - TL - The details in Earth’s justification about the Survivor show feel like they could actually be from a role PM (“physical and mental trials to the very end…”) though it’s probably a rephrase.
- #698 - TL - Defending another player for similar reasons he’s used to defend himself makes his posting seem more genuine.
Wylted
- Scum Lean (62.5%)
- Playing as Town: JFdp1, JFdp2, CoDdp1
- Playing as Scum: Castledp1
- #3 - SL - I know it’s WIFOM, but if this post is alignment indicative (not convinced it is), I think the intent is to appear unafraid of gaining attention and hence towny, especially since WyIted is usually given a pass for such posts. Which in turn makes it a strategic move for scum.
- #45 - SL - I don’t love that WyIted immediately qualifies his claim with a fun fact about reality shows. If he gave that information separately, it would be fine, but I think that when people are being deceptive or discussing information they don’t want revealed, they have a tendency to immediately answer the question and then change the subject.
- #77 - TL - The concern here seems towny, since we are only a few pages in.
- #93, #95, #97, #103, #108 - TL - This actually mitigates some of my previous concerns, it comes across as WyIted genuinely being interested in theme analysis and the topic in general.
- #319, #324 - TL - The effort and anger here feel genuine, and it does convince me that the earlier posts are more likely to be sincere.
- #574, #575, #579, #580, #581, #582, #585 - NAI - Looking back at WyIted’s last town game, I agree this isn’t scummy.
- #674 - TL - This would be a very odd thing for WyIted to make up if he’s scum.
whiteflame
- Scum Lean (62%)
- Playing as Town: CoDdp1, CoDdp2, CoDdp3
- Playing as Scum: JFdp1, JFdp2, JFdp3
- #16 - SL - With WF it’s always difficult to tell, but starting the game with something unrelated to this particular game seems more aimed at gaining town cred through camaraderie.
- #17, #21, #23 - SL - I understand WF’s frustration here, I really do, but their reasons for refusing Mikal aren’t framed from a game strategy perspective. The case could be made that Mikal’s strategy does work for reading WF, and WF only challenges it out of personal distaste. Casey is probably right that this isn’t that significant, so the lean is very slight.
- #28 - SL - After being pressured, I think this post could be made to change the subject, which WF can get away with because of Mikal’s brash demeanor, and the formalities beside the vote could be meant to ensure the vote isn’t met with hostility. I think town would be more inclined to pressure other players, while scum would be more inclined to befriend them
- #32 - TL - WF complimenting Mikal’s strategy like this actually strikes me as more towny than scummy. It’s WF, and he could easily be thinking that giving credence to Mikal here is the towny move; however, I think there were alternative responses that could have been more strategic for scum and planted bigger seeds for suspecting Mikal
- #75 - TL - The frustration seems towny, and it indicates to me that the previous frustration was likely genuine as well, not solely to avoid pressure.
- #106 - SL - Feels a bit like WF is planting seeds for suspicion on Mikal without outright saying it or giving reads. Also when responding to a call for engagement, this post seems like it throws suspicion toward the most convenient player rather than analyzing the game as a whole and really scum hunting.
- #109, #115 - SL - I think a town player would be more likely to start making progress from what they have. Waiting for claims and for inactives to post (not even the first to note inactive players) could be a convenient way to test the waters.
- #234 - TL - I’m seeing a good amount of effort here put into explaining the “why” behind his reads, and all of it seems fairly logical from a town perspective. I agree with him here more than I disagree with him, and I don’t see any opportunistic scum reads or possibly partnered town reads sticking out.
- #241 - TL - Agree on Casey being a top town read. See where WF is coming from on Mikal’s behavior, and if WF is town, then it makes sense for there to be no clear scum reads atm. Maybe I’m giving too much credit based off of agreement, and I do think scum WF would acknowledge strong town reads, but the lack of apparent agenda here is a green flag.
- #564 - SL - Decent enough, I guess, but WF tends to have mostly accurate reads as either alignment. Compared to the effort a lot of other players are putting in, I barely see anything new here. I guess I’d just expect more being added to the discussion if WF is town.
- #627 - TL - Ok, this mitigates my concern that WF didn’t have any super impactful reads to move the game forward.
- #660 - TL - More of the WF I’m used to with the analysis, which partially mitigates my concern that he’s acting particularly scummy today.
- #664 - TL - Starting a train like this leans towny, I don’t think WF really needed to do this to avoid being lynched.
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@whiteflame
@ILikePie5
@Mharman
@Mikal
@AustinL0926
Reads List 4.0
Each player is assigned an estimated probability of being town based on how towny or scummy they are. The average probability of being town is 70%, since there are 7 town players besides me and 3 scum players.
AustinL0926
- Town (80%)
- Playing as Town: SKdp1, SKdp2, Castledp1
- Playing as Scum: Diarydp1, Diarydp2, Diarydp3
- #583, #599 - T - Very unlikely this role claim is fake or that role belongs to scum. However, if Austin is scum, it’s possible a scum partner came up with this fake role for him, and it is possible it’s the fake scum role claim, since the show doesn’t fit too well. I also think scum would claim everything they want to claim at once, while town would throw out info desperately in Austin’s position.
- #588, #590, #592, #594 - TL - Feels like this is coming from someone genuinely catching up without being fed any information from scum. Town reading as scum here would be pretty bold, though I could see other scum recommending this to build trust.
- #631, #632, #633 - T - Thoughts seem more likely to occur to town, and I agree with the point about Mikal in particular.
- #728, #729, #730 - T - I don’t think scum Austin would analyze posts in this level of detail, effort seems towny
Casey_Risk
- Town Lean (78.5%)
- Playing as Town: SKdp1, SKdp2, SKdp3
- Playing as Scum: Gunplaydp1, Gunplaydp2, Gunplaydp3
- #78 - TL - I don’t think scum Casey would agree with no lynch either, but this is a towny concern to bring up.
- #80, #86, #91 - TL - I agree with the read on banana, and I think defending other players like this for pretty justifiable reasons is pro-town. Some of these things not being super AI is why my reads aren’t super strong at the moment, but I thought it was worth taking everything into account. I think generously town reading players is an unlikely scum play, and it indicates that Casey is not worried about POE getting too small around them.
- #81 - TL - Not super indicative, but I think enthusiasm for sharing role information is generally a good sign.
- #98, #102, #129, #147, #445, #450, #453, #628, #629, #630 - T - Feels like genuine scum hunting, inquiry, and theme analysis.
- #155, #190 - SL - The first post seemed like it could be genuine, and I’ve seen townies with convictions like this. However, in the second post, it’s odd that Casey quoted Mikal without noting that Luna said the tactic didn’t go against the rules. Might indicate that Casey objected for the purpose of hindering town.
- #129, #193, #200, #210 - T - Concise and reasonable. Casey stuck more to the details of other people’s posts in their town game (Serial Killers) here and here for example, but tended to ramble and be more verbose in their scum game here and here for example. Also drawing more attention to themselves than they need to just to ask questions, which I don’t think scum would expect to be town read for.
- #205 - TL - Town reading another player they don’t have to, but mostly with substantive info. Could have been more concise in response to my previous post to be more town read but wasn’t. (And despite having a paragraph it doesn’t feel like rambling.) Fixation on a small detail that town might genuinely be bugged by but that scum would probably avoid going down for fear of looking like they’re trying to invent an issue.
- #218, #227, #228 - TL - More solid, pro-town analysis that seems like a noticeable effort to identify scum and town.
- #519, #528, #548 - TL - I don’t think scum would risk going against a top town read like this, and it’s not a WIFOM gambit I think scum Casey would make. Plus the reasons given are understandable.
- #657 - TL - A decent amount of effort put into a read, and I don’t think scum would work this hard to explain their thought process if it was just made up.
Mikal
- Town Lean (77.5%)
- Playing as Town: JFdp1, Riddledp1, Riddledp2
- Playing as Scum: Ozarkdp1, Ozarkdp2, Ozarkdp3
- #16 - TL - An early post where the vote seems more substantive than for “joke” reasons, even if the goal is just to get someone’s attention, it’s not presented alongside a quip.
- #18, #25, #27 - TL - Ticking off another player like this would be an odd move coming from scum. Really I only see it biasing people against Mikal, hence I’m inclined to town read it. WIFOM, I know, but I just don’t see Mikal banking on being town read for being annoying.
- #34, #57, #137 - TL - I like that Mikal is taking the lead, and the explanation of the even-odd strat seems largely towny.
- #36, #38 - TL - Confronting another player out the gate is good, and Mikal is asking something I was curious about as well. This is pro-town at the very least. Also Mikal tends to be more confrontational as town (here, here, here, here) and more laid-back as scum (here, here, here)
- #165 - TL - This kind of indecision and uncertainty about another player comes from town more often than from scum.
- #209 - TL - Sticks to his guns without planting additional seeds for a push.
- #275 - TL - As I mentioned before, aggression like this is a town tell for Mikal, and I think pushing WF for specifics is warranted.
- #277, #281, #288, #289, #290 - TL - Mikal throws out a lot of specifics here that I think scum would have a hard time improvising while remaining genuine. And his attack on Earth is consistent, even if I think it’s mostly unsupported.
- #308, #309, #311, #315, #316 - TL - Very slight town read here. Strategy seems solid with no red flags, but I’ve seen this kind of thing before from Mikal, so it doesn’t move the needle that much.
- #443, #454 - TL - Similar to how I’ve spoken to and about people I suspect when I’m town, perhaps even more obviously sincere than that, and I have a hard time seeing scum fake this.
- #505, #507, #508 - TL - Towny analysis, emotions that seem sincere from a town perspective. The shift on Pie seems sincere to me.
- #537, #540, #549, #555 - T - Very towny annoyance and defense that makes a lot of sense to me. These aren’t super easy mislynches, but Mikal seems to understand how inactives could be perceived that way.
- #570 - SL - Giving up role info to reduce pressure seems more scummy than towny (and the information is barely useful). I mean I could see it as either alignment, but it’s not like revealing this really helps town. Plus, trying to use this to attack Earth feels opportunistic.
- #615 - TL - I agree with Austin that this is a towny consideration from Mikal.
- #666 - TL - Agree with Casey that this is a pro town concern, but the town lean comes more from the way it is phrased, imagining what could go wrong from town POV
- #700, #701 - TL - Attacking banana by defending Moozer and criticizing that read feels pretty towny.
Moozer325
- Town Lean (71.5%)
- Playing as Town: JFdp1, JFdp2, JFdp3
- Playing as Scum: IPdp1, IPdp2, IPdp3
- #306, #331 - TL - Seems genuine and open for the most part, though in this position I think scum has no choice but to claim, so only a slight town read.
- #438 - TL - I like these reads, and confident/active players often seem townie, so I buy that read as genuine (particularly with the comparison to last game).
- #530, #534, #543, #545 - T - If Moozer is lying here, it’s a lot of lies packed very densely, and I don’t think scum Moozer would fake that level of analysis.
- #533 - T - Offering to claim right after a decent analysis, hard to fake all of that at once. Seems sincere.
iLikePie5
- Scum Lean (69%)
- Playing as Town: JFdp1, JFdp2, TRdp1
- Playing as Scum: TVdp1, TVdp2
- #48, #49, #51 - TL - I like that Pie’s first posts are immediately about the game, no attempts to gain cred just through agreeableness.
- #55, #119, #120 - NAI - After reading Casey’s post, I agree that this probably isn’t a town slip. Pie’s explanation is fine. I could see these posts coming from either alignment
- #121, #122, #124, #126, #127 - SL - Pie is active as usual, which isn’t particularly AI, but his posts seem kind of noncommittal, mostly agreeing or giving meta information about players. Kind of the bare minimum to appear active.
- #125 - TL - I like that Pie is challenging a player, somewhat mitigates with my concerns about the other posts being noncommittal
- #136, #138 - TL - Towny concerns, and it somewhat convinces me the earlier meta analysis was genuinely aimed toward helping town
- #141, #142 - TL - Retracting an accusation like that indicates to me it was probably sincere. Could be faked or maybe forced by the situation, but I don’t think scum Pie would back down out of fear or plan to challenge and then back down.
- #515, #516, #535, #542 - T - Towny analysis that isn’t overly focused on one point (which scum tend to do) and is based on his own role, which I don’t think scum would use as an argument since it would limit their claims later. Impression I’m getting from past games is that Pie is more detail-oriented as town.
- #652, #655, #659 - TL - Pie’s behavior toward Austin remains very consistent, and I think these thoughts are indicative of a genuine town read.
- #654, #656 - TL - Decently towny thought process, and willing to engage even if it means addressing suspicion on himself without countering it.
- #751 - TL - Agree with this, lack of aggression is rare for Pie and in this case it seems genuine since the logic tracks.
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Not a ton of changes, but I'm going to post updated reads since we are nearing the end of the day phase.
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@whiteflame
@ILikePie5
I'm fine getting a claim from WF
VTL WF
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@AdaptableRatman
Do you want to understand why some women said they'd prefer the bear in the foret scenario or do you want to change the scenario to further prove why you'd pick man?
Women who choose the bear have made it clear why. I don't necessarily agree with all their conclusions, but I agree that there's some amount of risk in every encounter with a man.
Scenario is a forest. I tried to explain a baseline fear women have that is higher than men, regarding even going out at night.
Ok, but if the fear is based on going out at night and encountering a man, does it not make sense to compare that to the fear of going out at night and encountering a bear? Not sure how man vs bear in the street at night is different from man vs bear in a nearly empty zoo or man vs bear in a forest. Some species of bear absolutely can perceive a human as a threat, especially if you get close to its cubs. Also most sexual assaults aren't committed by strangers, so the statistics that have been cited seem not really applicable to encountering a random man.
Is it not appropriate to say that I think most people of either gender are more likely to be killed encountering a bear than encountering a man? I don't mean this in a snarky way, but it seems like you are debating feelings instead of logic. Why even argue this if you're not interested in discussing the comparative risks?
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@AdaptableRatman
And you told a man to "imagine if you were an obvious woman" then berated me as not being qualified to answer the question. If a man is capable of imagining being a woman, then by your standard everyone is capable of having an opinion on this.
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@AdaptableRatman
You are changing the scenario
The scenario you described was "going out late at night." Is that not what I referred to?
you are a man
Not sure my gender is relevant when the majority of men and women discussing this haven't encountered a bear. It's not like most people's personal experience is a good metric for how dangerous a bear is. Also, men are more likely than women to be physically assaulted, so it's not like only women are aware of that possibility.
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I mean as either gender, if it was night and the zoo was mostly empty, I'd rather be in the public areas with a man around than in the bear enclosure.
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@AdaptableRatman
imagine if you were an obvious woman. Imagine how much higher your fear woukd
I think my fear would be higher if I learned that a bear had escaped from the zoo a block away. Especially a grizzly bear or polar bear.
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@Mikal
At this point, I think I'd be fine with an Earth lynch. He's not my main scum read (WyIted and WF lean further scum), but I don't think we'll lynch either of those two today. Also Earth already outing his role made it a bit useless, so mechanically he's low risk to eliminate.
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@FLRW
Who is Will Paradox?
Will is the name given to a pair of conjoined twins, both of whom are doctors.
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@Mikal
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@Earth
@WyIted
@Casey_Risk
@Moozer325
@iamanabanana
See above.
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iamabanana
- Scum Lean (68%)
- Playing as Town: JFdp1, JFdp2, JFdp3
- Playing as Scum: BBdp1, BBdp2
- #7 - TL - Posting early draws attention, and I don’t think scum would be inclined to do so without a joke or something to justify the post, seem natural, etc.
- #33, #41 - T - I don’t see scum Banana coming out and giving info about her role without being asked. She’s played a few games, so it’s possible for this to be a tactic, but I think scum wouldn’t play this risky.
- #198 - TL - I like how banana sticks to her guns here, and the answer seems focused on town perspective rather than just being defensive.
- #199 - TL - Putting pressure on inactives like this is a town concern, and her response before is long and noticeable enough that just voting for Moozer wouldn’t be done to divert attention. If banana were scum under pressure, I think she would focus on either putting pressure on Moozer or giving a sufficient defense (not both).
- #299 - SL - I don’t love that banana’s only post in a while is a defensive one, repeating a point they already made.
- #378 - TL - Defending Earth like this is townie when he could be a possible lynch today.
- #399, #417, #421 - SL - A bit OMGUSy and overly defensive, and the defense of Earth seems a bit opportunistic as a way to throw suspicion toward Mikal. She’s been focused on defense as scum before here and here, though I couldn’t really find a similar situation to compare that behavior to in her town game. (Although she seemed a bit more open and less accusatory in general as town.)
- #606 - TL - A lot of effort, I think it’s unlikely banana goes this far under pressure if she’s scum.
iLikePie5
- Scum Lean (68%)
- Playing as Town: JFdp1, JFdp2, TRdp1
- Playing as Scum: TVdp1, TVdp2
- #48, #49, #51 - TL - I like that Pie’s first posts are immediately about the game, no attempts to gain cred just through agreeableness.
- #55, #119, #120 - NAI - After reading Casey’s post, I agree that this probably isn’t a town slip. Pie’s explanation is fine. I could see these posts coming from either alignment
- #121, #122, #124, #126, #127 - SL - Pie is active as usual, which isn’t particularly AI, but his posts seem kind of noncommittal, mostly agreeing or giving meta information about players. Kind of the bare minimum to appear active.
- #125 - TL - I like that Pie is challenging a player, somewhat mitigates with my concerns about the other posts being noncommittal
- #136, #138 - TL - Towny concerns, and it somewhat convinces me the earlier meta analysis was genuinely aimed toward helping town
- #141, #142 - TL - Retracting an accusation like that indicates to me it was probably sincere. Could be faked or maybe forced by the situation, but I don’t think scum Pie would back down out of fear or plan to challenge and then back down.
- #515, #516, #535, #542 - T - Towny analysis that isn’t overly focused on one point (which scum tend to do) and is based on his own role, which I don’t think scum would use as an argument since it would limit their claims later. Impression I’m getting from past games is that Pie is more detail-oriented as town.
Earth
- Scum Lean (67.5%)
- Playing as Town: CoDdp1, CoDdp2, CoDdp3
- Playing as Scum: RRV2dp1, RRV2dp2, RRV2dp3
- #35 - TL - For an infrequent poster, drawing attention early without a need comes across as more instinctive to town than to scum.
- #117 - TL - I don’t think scum Earth would offer to out his show without prompting.
- #157 - TL - Pro-town imo to advocate this strategy, even offering a way to make it more feasible.
- #235, #239, #240 - T - So much agreement here (except on inactives), and I’ll give Earth more credit for this than someone like WF (who is very towny as scum). If anything, I might suspect that Earth is copying my reads, but overall his reasoning is close to what I would say.
- #350 - SL - Post justification makes sense, and if it’s fake Survivor probably used up the mafia fake claim, but it’s an easy role to fake claim and non confirmable. Also, the show started in 2000, not before. Not in town’s interest to claim here since it just narrows down power roles and loses all the role’s utility, but could be an attempt to get pressure off by claiming early, while the soldier should want suspicion on them to avoid the NK.
- #353, #359 - SL - Explanation seems iffy to me. There’s a good chance that Earth wanted to keep his claim options open earlier by saying after 2000 and then looked up roles in recent games.
- #603 - TL - The details in Earth’s justification about the Survivor show feel like they could actually be from a role PM (“physical and mental trials to the very end…”) though it’s probably a rephrase.
Wylted
- Scum Lean (61.5%)
- Playing as Town: JFdp1, JFdp2, CoDdp1
- Playing as Scum: Castledp1
- #3 - SL - I know it’s WIFOM, but if this post is alignment indicative (not convinced it is), I think the intent is to appear unafraid of gaining attention and hence towny, especially since WyIted is usually given a pass for such posts. Which in turn makes it a strategic move for scum.
- #45 - SL - I don’t love that WyIted immediately qualifies his claim with a fun fact about reality shows. If he gave that information separately, it would be fine, but I think that when people are being deceptive or discussing information they don’t want revealed, they have a tendency to immediately answer the question and then change the subject.
- #77 - TL - The concern here seems towny, since we are only a few pages in.
- #93, #95, #97, #103, #108 - TL - This actually mitigates some of my previous concerns, it comes across as WyIted genuinely being interested in theme analysis and the topic in general.
- #319, #324 - TL - The effort and anger here feel genuine, and it does convince me that the earlier posts are more likely to be sincere.
- #574, #575, #579, #580, #581, #582, #585 - TL - A lot of posts with little substance. Not always alignment indicative from Wylted, but I think get lazier near the end of the day phase is more likely if he’s scum.
whiteflame
- Scum Lean (60.5%)
- Playing as Town: CoDdp1, CoDdp2, CoDdp3
- Playing as Scum: JFdp1, JFdp2, JFdp3
- #16 - SL - With WF it’s always difficult to tell, but starting the game with something unrelated to this particular game seems more aimed at gaining town cred through camaraderie.
- #17, #21, #23 - SL - I understand WF’s frustration here, I really do, but their reasons for refusing Mikal aren’t framed from a game strategy perspective. The case could be made that Mikal’s strategy does work for reading WF, and WF only challenges it out of personal distaste. Casey is probably right that this isn’t that significant, so the lean is very slight.
- #28 - SL - After being pressured, I think this post could be made to change the subject, which WF can get away with because of Mikal’s brash demeanor, and the formalities beside the vote could be meant to ensure the vote isn’t met with hostility. I think town would be more inclined to pressure other players, while scum would be more inclined to befriend them
- #32 - TL - WF complimenting Mikal’s strategy like this actually strikes me as more towny than scummy. It’s WF, and he could easily be thinking that giving credence to Mikal here is the towny move; however, I think there were alternative responses that could have been more strategic for scum and planted bigger seeds for suspecting Mikal
- #75 - TL - The frustration seems towny, and it indicates to me that the previous frustration was likely genuine as well, not solely to avoid pressure.
- #106 - SL - Feels a bit like WF is planting seeds for suspicion on Mikal without outright saying it or giving reads. Also when responding to a call for engagement, this post seems like it throws suspicion toward the most convenient player rather than analyzing the game as a whole and really scum hunting.
- #109, #115 - SL - I think a town player would be more likely to start making progress from what they have. Waiting for claims and for inactives to post (not even the first to note inactive players) could be a convenient way to test the waters.
- #234 - TL - I’m seeing a good amount of effort here put into explaining the “why” behind his reads, and all of it seems fairly logical from a town perspective. I agree with him here more than I disagree with him, and I don’t see any opportunistic scum reads or possibly partnered town reads sticking out.
- #241 - TL - Agree on Casey being a top town read. See where WF is coming from on Mikal’s behavior, and if WF is town, then it makes sense for there to be no clear scum reads atm. Maybe I’m giving too much credit based off of agreement, and I do think scum WF would acknowledge strong town reads, but the lack of apparent agenda here is a green flag.
- #564 - SL - Decent enough, I guess, but WF tends to have mostly accurate reads as either alignment. Compared to the effort a lot of other players are putting in, I barely see anything new here. I guess I’d just expect more being added to the discussion if WF is town.
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@whiteflame
@ILikePie5
@Mharman
@Mikal
@AustinL0926
Reads List 3.0
Each player is assigned an estimated probability of being town based on how towny or scummy they are. The average probability of being town is 70%, since there are 7 town players besides me and 3 scum players.
AustinL0926
- Town (79%)
- Playing as Town: SKdp1, SKdp2, Castledp1
- Playing as Scum: Diarydp1, Diarydp2, Diarydp3
- #583, #599 - T - Very unlikely this role claim is fake or that role belongs to scum. However, if Austin is scum, it’s possible a scum partner came up with this fake role for him, and it is possible it’s the fake scum role claim, since the show doesn’t fit too well. I also think scum would claim everything they want to claim at once, while town would throw out info desperately in Austin’s position.
- #588, #590, #592, #594 - TL - Feels like this is coming from someone genuinely catching up without being fed any information from scum. Town reading as scum here would be pretty bold, though I could see other scum recommending this to build trust.
Casey_Risk
- Town Lean (78%)
- Playing as Town: SKdp1, SKdp2, SKdp3
- Playing as Scum: Gunplaydp1, Gunplaydp2, Gunplaydp3
- #78 - TL - I don’t think scum Casey would agree with no lynch either, but this is a towny concern to bring up.
- #80, #86, #91 - TL - I agree with the read on banana, and I think defending other players like this for pretty justifiable reasons is pro-town. Some of these things not being super AI is why my reads aren’t super strong at the moment, but I thought it was worth taking everything into account. I think generously town reading players is an unlikely scum play, and it indicates that Casey is not worried about POE getting too small around them.
- #81 - TL - Not super indicative, but I think enthusiasm for sharing role information is generally a good sign.
- #98, #102, #129, #147, #445, #450, #453 - T - Feels like genuine scum hunting, inquiry, and theme analysis.
- #155, #190 - SL - The first post seemed like it could be genuine, and I’ve seen townies with convictions like this. However, in the second post, it’s odd that Casey quoted Mikal without noting that Luna said the tactic didn’t go against the rules. Might indicate that Casey objected for the purpose of hindering town.
- #129, #193, #200, #210 - T - Concise and reasonable. Casey stuck more to the details of other people’s posts in their town game (Serial Killers) here and here for example, but tended to ramble and be more verbose in their scum game here and here for example. Also drawing more attention to themselves than they need to just to ask questions, which I don’t think scum would expect to be town read for.
- #205 - TL - Town reading another player they don’t have to, but mostly with substantive info. Could have been more concise in response to my previous post to be more town read but wasn’t. (And despite having a paragraph it doesn’t feel like rambling.) Fixation on a small detail that town might genuinely be bugged by but that scum would probably avoid going down for fear of looking like they’re trying to invent an issue.
- #218, #227, #228 - TL - More solid, pro-town analysis that seems like a noticeable effort to identify scum and town.
- #519, #528, #548 - TL - I don’t think scum would risk going against a top town read like this, and it’s not a WIFOM gambit I think scum Casey would make. Plus the reasons given are understandable.
Mikal
- Town Lean (76%)
- Playing as Town: JFdp1, Riddledp1, Riddledp2
- Playing as Scum: Ozarkdp1, Ozarkdp2, Ozarkdp3
- #16 - TL - An early post where the vote seems more substantive than for “joke” reasons, even if the goal is just to get someone’s attention, it’s not presented alongside a quip.
- #18, #25, #27 - TL - Ticking off another player like this would be an odd move coming from scum. Really I only see it biasing people against Mikal, hence I’m inclined to town read it. WIFOM, I know, but I just don’t see Mikal banking on being town read for being annoying.
- #34, #57, #137 - TL - I like that Mikal is taking the lead, and the explanation of the even-odd strat seems largely towny.
- #36, #38 - TL - Confronting another player out the gate is good, and Mikal is asking something I was curious about as well. This is pro-town at the very least. Also Mikal tends to be more confrontational as town (here, here, here, here) and more laid-back as scum (here, here, here)
- #165 - TL - This kind of indecision and uncertainty about another player comes from town more often than from scum.
- #209 - TL - Sticks to his guns without planting additional seeds for a push.
- #275 - TL - As I mentioned before, aggression like this is a town tell for Mikal, and I think pushing WF for specifics is warranted.
- #277, #281, #288, #289, #290 - TL - Mikal throws out a lot of specifics here that I think scum would have a hard time improvising while remaining genuine. And his attack on Earth is consistent, even if I think it’s mostly unsupported.
- #308, #309, #311, #315, #316 - TL - Very slight town read here. Strategy seems solid with no red flags, but I’ve seen this kind of thing before from Mikal, so it doesn’t move the needle that much.
- #443, #454 - TL - Similar to how I’ve spoken to and about people I suspect when I’m town, perhaps even more obviously sincere than that, and I have a hard time seeing scum fake this.
- #505, #507, #508 - TL - Towny analysis, emotions that seem sincere from a town perspective. The shift on Pie seems sincere to me.
- #537, #540, #549, #555 - T - Very towny annoyance and defense that makes a lot of sense to me. These aren’t super easy mislynches, but Mikal seems to understand how inactives could be perceived that way.
- #570 - SL - Giving up role info to reduce pressure seems more scummy than towny (and the information is barely useful). I mean I could see it as either alignment, but it’s not like revealing this really helps town. Plus, trying to use this to attack Earth feels opportunistic.
Moozer325
- Town Lean (73%)
- Playing as Town: JFdp1, JFdp2, JFdp3
- Playing as Scum: IPdp1, IPdp2, IPdp3
- #306, #331 - TL - Seems genuine and open for the most part, though in this position I think scum has no choice but to claim, so only a slight town read.
- #438 - TL - I like these reads, and confident/active players often seem townie, so I buy that read as genuine (particularly with the comparison to last game).
- #530, #534, #543, #545 - T - If Moozer is lying here, it’s a lot of lies packed very densely, and I don’t think scum Moozer would fake that level of analysis.
- #533 - T - Offering to claim right after a decent analysis, hard to fake all of that at once. Seems sincere.
Mharman
- Scum Lean (68.5%)
- Playing as Town: JFdp1, JFdp2, JFdp3
- Playing as Scum: CoDdp1, CoDdp2, CoDdp3
- #60, #61 - TL - Strategizing that doesn’t give off any red flags. There’s a question posed to Pie that could be manipulative but seems more like an attempt to get a read, and I like that. Don’t know that scum would have thought to do that.
- #105 - T - The read on Mikal seems genuine. I have a hard time seeing scum suspect someone and then give a reason why they actually might not be suspicious with zero pushback.
- #143, #144, #145 - TL - More questions that seem like they’re coming from a towny perspective, I don’t think scum Mharman would pretend not to know if scum have questions just to get town read.
- #291, #301, #310 - TL - If Mharman is scum here, then the strategy is probably to pursue a WyIted lynch or Pie lynch by throwing out seeds. Or allow Earth to be lynched by not defending him. But he defends inactives decently and defends the town core, so his thoughts seem more likely from genuine town trying to catch up and get thoughts out.
- #318 - TL - Mharman going back and forth on WF seems genuine. Idk if scum would be willing to seem inconsistent like this.
- #321 - SL - This post is pretty verbose, and rambling a bit is often a scum tell. Also could be planting potential seeds for a lynch without committing.
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@ILikePie5
@Moozer325
I wouldn't call myself a mislynch
Moozer defends a scum slip with another scum slip...
I mean irony aside, I'm not sure how AI this actually is. Pie reads a lot into wording like this and is usually wrong (though I think it's towny for Pie to be paying this much attention.)
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Gonna say a lot of this arguing looks town v town. The premises seem like things town would fixate on but are generally bad for actually scum reading people.
Another thing I'm gonna have to consider is that later reads lists agreeing with the majority may actually be suspicious. I think someone brought that up already, but in this particular case, I think it's very tempting for scum to align themselves with the town core.
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@ILikePie5
what are your thoughts on Mikal using Earth’s unconfirmability as a reason to want to lynch him? I think it’s weak af
I wouldn't lynch off that alone, but I do think scum are more likely to claim unconfirmable roles than town. I think to get a good read, you have to take everything you can into account. And Mikal already had reasons for suspecting Earth behaviorally, although I disagreed with many of them.
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@Mikal
I really really wana iso him
Are you active on Mafia Universe?
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@ILikePie5
Yes, I am referring to the show
Is it not believable for Survivor to be a fake show claim? Luna gave you the main character in Invincible mafia. Also if one mafia uses the fake char and one uses the fake role, 2/3 of them get to fake claim.
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@Mikal
We have some similar concerns about Earth, but I don't scum read him as harshly as you do.
- Posts 117, 170, 172, 173, 179, 215, 221: All are low-content and avoid engagement. He is coasting, without progressing the game.
Disagree with this. Post #170, for example, ran the risk of starting an argument with Casey. #172 confronts me possibly misrepresenting Earth. #173 is saying he supports my idea, which is necessary for any proposal to get off the ground. #179 is again responding to a post, and are posts not meant to be responded to? Any of these had potential to progress the game if the other player responded in a particularly scummy way. #215 doesn't avoid engagement, it literally challenges you. #221 clarifies his behavior after Casey calls him out for his post.
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@ILikePie5
claim survivor as scum
You're referring to the show, right? The role is soldier and I've gotten them confused since there's another role called survivor.
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@ILikePie5
The alternative is lying, which is probably not recommended here, and I wouldn’t recommend it at all generally.
I think Earth could have fought harder to keep his role secret at least. Claiming Survivor as the show may have been enough by itself.
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@ILikePie5
Do you disagree that if Earth is scum, then this has to be the fake claim that Lunatic gave?
If Earth is scum, I think Survivor is the fake character claim but Earth picked soldier themselves as it's pretty obscure.
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@Casey_Risk
Feels like I'll always be learning new acronyms. What's this one mean?
If you want to look up acronyms, you should try using GSW filtering for CFMS. In particular, a lot of the acronyms Mikal uses are from PLMU. I would recommend being familiar with the acronyms from MATVL to avoid being scum read, as a common scum tactic is to PNTNT.
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@Casey_Risk
I really think Banana is town. Her logic here regarding Earth relies a lot on how she views Mikal's push, and not so much on Earth’s own behavior. I don't think this is good logic, but it's really reminiscent of The Russian Mafia, where she used an extremely similar line of logic to defend That2 - Banana thought she was being dogpiled and viewed That2 as likely town as a result
A big difference being that here, banana is using this to attack Mikal's credibility, specifically after Mikal scum read some of banana's posts as well. Overall, I find banana's more recent behavior a bit OMGUSy and overly defensive, and the defense of Earth seems a bit opportunistic as a way to throw suspicion toward Mikal. She’s been focused on defense as scum before here and here, though I couldn’t really find a similar situation to compare that behavior to in her town game. (Although she seemed a bit more open and less accusatory in general as town.)
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@ILikePie5
And no scumreads. I agree with this
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@Mikal
Could have used a fake claim but I really doubt it.
Survivor could easily be the fake character claim.
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@ILikePie5
I can give you a TLDR, but you're gonna need a TLDR for the TLDR
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@Casey_Risk
I struggle to see the scum reason for Earth saying "this role was used recently" when it wasn't.
There was a soldier in chess mafia. If Earth was going through past games as scum he might have a broader sense of "recent" games since he doesn't have to rely on memory.
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@Lunatic
Mafia were given exactly one fake role claim, and one fake character claim this time around
Do they go together? If we're not supposed to know, then don't say.
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As for why that matters, if Earth is scum and we lynch him, then we'd have more days before we reach LYLO. He's not my top lynch yet though.
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@iamanabanana
Exactly but they would still have to kill him. We let him get to lylo
Which means if he's scum, we have to identify the other two first, and finding 2/10 is harder than finding 3/11. Also if LYLO is 3 town vs 2 scum, then we mislynch, scum could kill Earth at night and then lynch the third town member.
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@Earth
Survivor has lile 5000 seasons after 2000
The question was when the show started. I'll give you some credit for not saying it "started" after 2000 though, looking back that's a sign you're telling the truth.
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@iamanabanana
I don’t think mafia would risk keeping him alive that long if he’s telling the truth and town
If he's town, I suspect they would kill him last.
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@Mharman
And yeah it matters because I think scum would be more averse to clarifying than town. Earth could have the fake claim in the back of his mind but figure how might want to claim a show after 2000, plus scum isn't as concerned with being truthful.
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@Mharman
The question was before or after 2000. Exactly 2000 was never an option. I would have treated it like -1999 and 2000+
Then if the question is vague, you answer a different question. WyIted asked the decade, for example.
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@WyIted
Go ahead give me an analysis of Austin's behavior?
Austin's not the one who claimed.
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