Total posts: 8,696
Posted in:
[ftf]
VTL Supadudz
o cum all ye losers
dumb but unrepentant
o cum ye you elephants of
ma ah fee uh
cum be emboldened cuz
greyparrot is play-ay-ying
he might again just shout out
his scum affiliation!
o cum and be emboldened!
Ma... Ah.... Fee uhhhhhhhhhhhh
and yes i fear
tho the eels be red
serious lemurs
might turn our kits green
Created:
Posted in:
everybody must choose one from each list
- You are Town.
- You win with Town
- You win with the Town
CONFEDERATE
or
UNION
those who answer quickly are less likely scum
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Barney
is a good example although in retrospect the word hellscapes strikes me as too derogatory. Can we change that to information labyrinths?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Barney
You, trent0405, or RM if he returns on time.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lunatic
I didn't suspect Pattern was TUF until you said. I now wonder if I would have guessed as you got more engaged but prob not.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Lunatic
Sorry but when the role description says that you will turn amnesiac if you mimic TP and then you claim that you are amnesiac in the next DP, that claim has to be weighted heavily against the target whatever the other circumstance. Of course it was possible that Croc used that word without first checking the general role descriptions on wiki but once he used that magic word, a hard sus was on the table until disproven.
Any excess of suspicion on my part should be taken as a compliment. Very good players are always weighted less likely to be innocent in my book until hard prove arrives. There's no animosity in my frequent suspicions, just a warranted regular concern that you may be playing the long con on my ass.
Created:
Posted in:
- I, for one, am just fine with Supa's conduct and game design as mod, including time extension. I remember that in bsh1's beginner's series (which revival we know Supa is considering), time extensions were commonplace. Personally, I think DP time periods are way too long and a big part of why people lose interest and drift away from investigations. If time periods were shorter -12 hours, 24 hours there would be a greater sense of urgency to participation, and slackers would be sorely disadvantaged.
- Losing your first mafia in DP2 is hardly unusual or profoundly disadvantaging.
- The number one reason for lynching Pie was provided to town by Ragnar- a very damning accusation. I am quite surprised to discover Ragnar was scum and if Ragnar's gambit was NOT to get Pie lynched in DP2 then I think SCUM only has themselves to blame for the result.
- SCUM's early quit, especially when they had numerous factors in their favor (esp Ragnar's manifest towniness when Pie flipped SCUM) is poor sportsmanship in my estimation.
- If we want to increase participation on DebateArt and if we play Mafia as one instrument towards that increase, I think it is incumbent on all players to disagree with gameplay courteously and objectively. If we want to have a discussion about hard sticking DP end times, I think that discussion is legitimate but should be held after a full faith effort in the game is done and when emotions have cooled to promote objectivity. Kicking over the chessboard mid game is never cool and does not encourage new players to participate.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@bronskibeat
Thoughts? Growing problem in society or non-issue?I think it's a largely overblown issue. For example, take the "war on Christmas", and the assumption that big box retail is more concerned with virtue signaling than widening the targeted demographics in their marketing to make more holiday money. That's a bit of a silly assumption to make. But that's simply one angle on it, obviously there are many directions this conversation can go.
When we ask "is political correctness a problem?" we have already answered the question by using the term "political correctness"
POLITICAL CORRECTNESS is "a term used to describe language, policies, or measures that are intended to avoid offense or disadvantage to members of particular groups in society. In public discourse and the media, the term is generally used as a pejorative with an implication that these policies are excessive or unwarranted"
That is, the term "political correctness" generally implies critique, so you've pre-loaded your question with an answer. I think a less loaded variation might be, "do Americans enjoy less free speech now then [insert time frame, I generally a generational period like 20-30 yrs] and the answer to that is that I think Americans enjoy about the same or more free speech now than 30 years ago.
In a very general sense, most use of the political correctness critique (or in the FOX news doublespeak of the week, cancel culture) is a sort of non-response response to criticisms of offensive speech. So when people say, "hey, the Washington Redskins in an offensive team name that should change" a commonplace defense is to merely damn political correctness. Few take the time to investigate the nature and extent of the offense or the cost and consequence of a namechange, most are just satisfied with tossing epithets and declaring victory in place of rational discourse.
Therefore much of the argument around political correctness is just a continuation of political perspective.
A crazy recent example of liberal PC run amok took place in England last month.
- On July 22nd, 3 white men deliberately ran over a black 21 year healthcare worker in front of a Bristol hospital while shouting the racial epithet "nigger."
- On July 29th, a BBC presenter deliberately repeated the epithet during an interview regarding the event. She warned her listeners that she was about to speak a racial epithet immediately prior to correctly reporting the use of the word.
- In response, the BBC received some 20,000 complaints regarding the word's use and a black BBC presenter resigned from his job in protest of the word's use.
- The BBC stood by its usage for 10 days but finally relented to political pressure and apologized for the use. The presenter also apologized personally.
To me, this is totally nuts. Obviously, the offensive use of the word was committed by young racists on July 22. I don't see how accurately reporting the offense could be seen as offensive or how anybody could persist in claiming offense after the presenter offered fair warning. I guess the core rationale is that the word should always be censored in every context and never spoken aloud even when carefully contextualized to prevent offense and perhaps that's a question of journalistic integrity worth exploring but I don't think any person can reasonably claim to have been offended by the BBC's usage and I call phony bullshit on all those fake liberals who demanded an apology.
A crazy recent example of conservative PC run amok took place at Lafayette Square in DC on June 1. A crowd of law abiding US citizens protesting the murder of George Floyd by police were dispersed by soldiers in full battle gear using tear gas, pepper spray, sting grenades, flash-bang grenades, smoke bombs, rubber bullets and batons. I don't think Trump or his acolytes would accept the critique of political correctness in this case but I don't see how it can be avoided. Officially, the POTUS is required to tolerate any degree of peaceful criticism of the government and his administration of that government and his misuse of the US military to enforce his political perspective is far less acceptable than the intolerance of ordinary citizens without armies.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Pattern
>@RagnarThis seems obvious, but do not roleblock croc please. Assuming he isn't killed or fvcked with, if he gets results for tomorrow it will confirm like 3 people. I can see why there was a last ditch attempt to get him lynched lol.
???
What results could Croc be getting?
If we believe Croc he is now a VANILLA and won't be getting any results for the rest of this game.
If we don't believe Croc's claim, then why should we care what results he might offer next round and why wouldn't RB'ing likely scum be a good idea?
I am still super suspicious of Pattern and the Croc/Pattern dynamic. I don't think TOWN should trust either.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@TNBinc
Here's the current signup and there's one slot stilll open:
https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/4716-u-s-senators-civil-war-generals-taco-bell-signups?page=2
pls. join!
Created:
Posted in:
Miscellaneous:
- ebuc's enigmas
- crossed's information hellscapes
- BrotherDThomas's performance art
Created:
Posted in:
Created:
Posted in:
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ILikePie5
Strongman Vengeful is not pretty tradition but ok.
agreed. that's why i said except for speed.
The fact I got my own role is nothing for than coincidence imo. Supa randomly selects the roles to the best of my knowledge.
Not impossible, just far less likely than the choice was yours.
Mimic if you choose to believe that is also not a traditional role.
perhaps not. I have had this ROLE twice, both on DDO years ago so perhaps my perspective is skewed to think it is more common than it is.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@MisterChris
A lot can change by tomorrow night so who knows if you'll be lynched or not honestly.
DP ends 8/30 11AM CST
11 hours left in DP
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ILikePie5
@MisterChrisIn that case it's worth a shot I think.Behavior imo is most indicative of affiliation. Just my two cents. Croc’s is anti-town. Mine has been pro-town. I don’t see a reason why I would claim that I was a bad guy as a scum member. I don’t see why I would’ve claimed soldier if I was scum.
I'm not big on behavior reads but even so, Croc's gameplay is consistently anti-town irregardless of alignment and your gameplay is consistently pro-town irregardless of alignment.
You would have claimed SOLDIER because it is a role you've looked at before and realized it a good claim for scum because it can't be tested until the final round. If town believes SCUM they might actually work to preserve scum for the final round. You don't have to claim any info or movement so you get the VANILLA treatment but because it is rare, folks don't suspect it as much as a VANILLA claim. I think its a very good choice for scum.
Thinking meta- the odds that you chose to go with SOLDIER because you were familiar with the role because you deployed in a game of your own recently is far, far higher than the odds that Supa went with some esoteric role from drafter's list. Every other role except for Speeds seems pretty traditional.
Created:
Posted in:
UVC
iLikePie5 [1/6] oromagi, Rangnar, MrChris
Crocodile [2/6] BearMan, Pattern, WaterP
Ragnar [1/6] GreyParrot
Skittlez [1/6] Pie
Created:
Posted in:
USERS
- Ragnar
- bsh1
- and of course
Instead of ill feelings of anger and shame,put SupaDudz in the hall of fame.Instead of accusing and grousing and flame,put SupaDudz in the hall of fame.su-pa-pa dudz papa su-pa-pa-dudzsu-pa-pa dudz papa su-pa-pa-dudzsu-pa-pa dudz papa su-pa-pa-dudzsu-pa-pa dudz papa sup-pa-pa-dudzInstead of trolls drooling and boozing insane,put SupaDudz in the hall of fame.Instead of complaining 'bout raining and pain,put SupaDudz in the hall of fame.su-pa-pa dudz papa su-pa-pa-dudzsu-pa-pa dudz papa su-pa-pa-dudzsu-pa-pa dudz papa su-pa-pa-dudzsu-pa-pa dudz papa sup-pa-pa-dudzInstead of a panic of manics deranged,put SupaDudz in the hall of fame.until then this refrain will remain unchangedput Supadudz in the hall of fame.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Barney
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@MisterChris
>@oromagiA Pie lynch does have a lot of utility. But does his behavior match that of his mafia meta?
I have no mafia meta expectations or tells Pie. He is an excellent player who plays convincingly as town in every game.
If anybody does have some meta read on Pie, its probably Pattern.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@WaterPhoenix
@oromagiis it confirmed that there was no mafia kill or are we just speaking hypothetically here?
You should estimate the odds for yourself.
Assume that1 did hide. If a hider hides behind SCUM she dies. If a hider hides behind town she almost certainly survives. That means that1 died from choosing to hide behind scum. She might even have hinted who she hid behind.
Unless you think SCUM refrained from NK (it happens tho its rare) then, a NK was attempted and failed. The only role we have seen so far (and we've seen all but 3) that could stop a NK is ROLEBLOCKER. A ROLEBLOCKER is claimed and claims RB on PIe. GP confirms that RB visited Pie and PIe claims a rare, untestable role immediately after.
There may be other scenarios but the straightforward one that we luckily blocked the first NK seems by far the most straightforward and likely. Further, let's note that Pie's character claim seems to be an arch-enemy of Naruto's and was never a member of the ALLIED SHINOBI FORCES as was every other character claimed.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ILikePie5
The lack of a mafia kill could also be that That1 waiver as I mentioned and scum chose to kill her rather than a Roleblock on me.
No, it did not go down this way. That1 definitely hid and possibly bc'd her hide. I suppose it is marginally possible that Mafia refrained from a NK but That1 did not waive her hide on NP1. I will not yet say why I know this.
This is why you are likeliest SCUM.
Created:
-->
@ILikePie5
/in Civil War generals, of course
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ILikePie5
Ok well we’re back to square one now
agreed. Although TUF's lack of challenge still places him firmly in scum pile
UNVOTE
VTL iLikePie5
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Crocodile
OKso this is what happenedi am a mimic, i coppied patterni got vanilla.amnesiac has nothing to do with any of this ok?it was meant to be a joke
WTF? How is amnesiac a joke? Why are you so determined to get yourself lynched every game by refusing to state things plainly or consistently?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Pattern
->@oromagiIf Croc is lying, his motivation for lying is pretty murky.I think our highest probability for good lynch now is Pattern and that will be a TPDude that is absolutely beyond ridiculous. He claimed 3 different things, mimic, vanilla, and amnesiac, and you choose to go with the third one? He quite literally lied. All he had to do was read his role PM to know which one he was.
You trusted his claim 3 hours when he said you were VANILLA. And this wouldn't be the first game when Croc claimed VANILLA when he meant something else.
I just can't see Croc gambiting amnesiac and I doubt you missed his changed claim at @#206, I think you just let it pass because you knew it outed you and you hoped nobody would notice. You were reading/responding too actively to all other posts at the time, so your silence on the matter is damning.
Created:
Posted in:
If Croc is lying, his motivation for lying is pretty murky.
I think our highest probability for good lynch now is Pattern and that will be a TP
UNVOTE
VTL Pattern
Created:
Posted in:
->@oromagiCroc first claimed he'd been converted to VANILLA, narrowing TUF down to VANILLA or SCUM. TUF wisely and immediately claims VANILLA.Explain the logic on how that makes me scum?
I did. POST#261
" Depending on what alignment that player has, the Mimic will be converted into a different role. If the targeted player is town (or Godfather), the Mimic will steal their role, and the targeted person will become Vanilla Townie. If the Mimic targets a mafia-aligned player (or a Miller), the Mimic will become a Vanilla Townie"
I'm sure you know this because the moment Croc said he'd been converted to VANILLA, you claimed VANILLA. Your liklihood to be scum is inverse to your liklihood to be VANILLA
But nevermind all that because....
Now, Croc claims that he'd been converted to Amnesiac. That either makes Croc lying SCUM or TUF third party again!
Where did he say he was an amnesiac? He said he thought he had amnesia because he thought he already claimed his results, he wasn't actually claiming a role with that lol.
I said in the same post you are responding to. POST#206
Created:
Posted in:
I don't think folks are appreciating the significance of Croc's last post or how it affects our priorities
i had a brain aneurysm and thought i said it beforei think im an amnesiacso sorry i made a mistake :/
Here is how MIMIC works:
The Mimic is a town-aligned role that once per game may target another player at night and learn their alignment. Depending on what alignment that player has, the Mimic will be converted into a different role. If the targeted player is town (or Godfather), the Mimic will steal their role, and the targeted person will become Vanilla Townie. If the Mimic targets a mafia-aligned player (or a Miller), the Mimic will become a Vanilla Townie. If the Mimic targets a third party or independently aligned player, the Mimic will be converted to an Amnesiac.
Croc first claimed he'd been converted to VANILLA, narrowing TUF down to VANILLA or SCUM. TUF wisely and immediately claims VANILLA.
Now, Croc claims that he'd been converted to Amnesiac. That either makes Croc lying SCUM or TUF third party again!
At this point, I think we have to assume that TUF/Pattern has been uncovered as TP.
I will lynch Pie or Pattern now.
Created:
Posted in:
Crocodile [1/6] BearMan
Ragnar [1/6] GreyParrot
BearMan [1/6] Pattern
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Barney
@Crocodile
@CrocodileIs your avatar indicative of your assigned character?
awesome. That picture is from here
And Croc focuses on Kurama, If we are looking at a good v evil , then Kurama fits nicely in the evil category, right? Another one of the nine tails with Pie's character and also not a member of ALLIED SHINOBI FORCES.
I don't know Croc well but I don't think such a tell is necessarily out of character for Croc.
Hey Croc, this looks like a breadcrumb for character claim. Can you confirm that you are Kurama, as your profile pic strongly indicates?
Created:
Posted in:
I am off to a BBQ. Further updates tonight will be conditional on degree of sobriety.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ILikePie5
I can’t read what you’re saying cause the formatting is garbage on mobile. I’d prefer if you would just Post like normal so I don’t have to go to a computer.
Try turning your phone 90 degrees to landscape. That solves it on my iPhone.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@skittlez09
You should VTL pie now then and make your character claim as well, please.
Created:
Posted in:
CORRECTION to POST #116:
- Furthermore, Pie made the case against Pie's utility and bandwagon'd as soon as I started that lynch.
should read
- Furthermore, Pie made the case against Speed's utility and bandwagon'd as soon as I started that lynch.
This player regrets the error.
Created:
Posted in:
Created:
Posted in:
I want to flip Pie.
- A Weak Hider has two options:
1) Hide behind the least likely town kill, becoming unkillable for that night and confirming that person as town.
2) Hide behind the player most likely to be scum: and make no secret that if you end up dead, that is what likely happened during the night phase. This can effectively be a guilty on a player.
As with all Weak roles, it is best to leave a breadcrumb so that if you die, players can in retrospect work out who you must have hidden behind. - I am convinced that1user chose option #1 and was surprised to uncover SCUM. I suspect that1user did bc but I am not convinced.
- That means that scum almost certainly attempted NK and failed. There are multiple possible scenarios that might have caused that failure but Ragnar has presented a plausible scenario and nobody has presented any other alternative. If somebody is BULLETPROOF, for example, that information would shift probabilities significantly.
- Pie has claimed SOLDIER, a role that is rare enough to not get mentioned on mafiascumwiki but with sufficient precedent to appear on drafterman's master list of roles.
- The one precedent we've uncovered so far was from a game run by Pie, so we know that Pie's consideration of the role precedes this game at least.
- If Pie were SCUM looking for a fake claim, we know that Pie was sufficiently familiar with the role to have considered the option
- And also, SOLDIER is conveniently untestable.
- If Pie were SCUM and did not have a visitation role, then claiming a non-visiting role like SOLDIER would be more likely and also make Pie a more likely selection for performing NKs.
- Furthermore, Pie made the case against Pie's utility and bandwagon'd as soon as I started that lynch.
- Furthermore, Pie has a self-admittedly scummy character claim and seems to be a principle, powerful enemy of Naruto's.
- For example, of the eight characters whose affiliation I am able to check so far, ONLY Pie's character was not a member of the ALLIED SHINOBI FORCES coallition and was, I think, the main BOSS opposing that coalition. I think this is a theme division worth testing.
- Pie's most powerful character doesn't match role. As Pie admits, she is "arguably the most powerful character on the show"
- Pie's justification that if the BOSS villain survives, TOWN wins doesn't make sense.
- However, Speed & That1's justifications didn't make much sense.
- However, my justification is on point.
- ROLEBLOCKERs are at least as often SCUM as TOWN which makes Ragnar's claim perilous to make. SCUM would have little motivation to make such a claim now.
- Ragnar's claim is reinforced by GP's track of Ragnar. If Ragnar's RB was redirected, GP would have shown otherwise. This improves GP's claim somewhat to the extent that GP's report seems accurate.
- Ragnar's role claim is consistent with Ragnar's character claim
In short, the odds that Pie is SCUM is better than any other player's odds and Pie's death has the further advantage of informing TOWN more than any other claim made so far.
Created:
Posted in:
I think I'd like to see everybody's Character claim. Does anybody have strong objections?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Barney
Debates: 28Forum posts: 1,4005710Added08.27.20 12:27PM-->@PatternDidn't supa have a solider in south park mafia?Not seeing it there: https://www.debateart.com/forum/topics/3530-south-park-mafia-endgameI did however manage to find it on Drafterman's role list: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1_pFVyzYrrc2kkwkX60hMmmTeYrM0bC3LejPCYtLZ9cQ/edit#gid=0&range=B168Still, it seems uncommon. I'm comfortable with my vote wher
u beat me to it
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Barney
@ILikePie5My role is Soldier - basically if I’m the last townie alive, town ends up winning.I've never heard of that role, I can't find it on Mafiascum, and it sounds pretty OP.
I have confirmed the role exists on Drafterman's master list but I also can't recall ever playing against a SOLDIER claim
Pretty good claim for scum.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@Barney
@skittlez09wait so u got a guilty on pie?No, just a successful RB, and the lack of a night kill.
I like it but roleblocker is more often scum than town. Could be a gambit. What reassurances can you offer?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@skittlez09
why did u guys lynch speedrace exactly?
I missed Speed's late confession. I'd like to think I would have unvoted but the actual claim is weirdly sus. It says strongarm (strongman?) but any does not penetrate any target's defense. If I had been able to read speed's whole PM minus alignment, I would have considered him more suspect, not less.
Created:
Posted in:
Created:
Posted in:
that1user died hiding behind scum. I wish you had tracked because then we'd know who. Who do you think that1user was most likely to hide behind?
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@skittlez09
@Ragnarwait so u got a guilty on pie?
A roleblocker would not get a guilty. Just successful block result or block failed result.
Created:
Posted in:
-->
@ILikePie5
@GreyparrotI did visit pie last night. I'm Ensui Nara, a rollblocker.
Can u verify that your rolls were blocked?
Created:
Posted in:
-->@Greyparrot
also why didnt you guys let me track speed??
What would be the profit?
If TOWN tracks TOWN tracker dies
If TOWN tracks SCUM unknown
SCUM would not track TOWN but would false claim to sus TOWN
SCUM would not track SCUM but could not exonerate Speed
In no scenario could tracker profitably verify PGO but also high risk of deception, low chance of useful data.
But you know all that so why do you ask?
Created: