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drafterman

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Office Mafia Day 1
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@warren42
Grey is on AROSE

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Office Mafia Day 1
Based on voting analysis alone, summarizing the reads:

Town
Speed
oro
airmax

Null
Press
Arose
Wylted

Sus
Grey
Pie
Supa
Water
Sir

Yes. I have five people in the scum pile. There are none-righteous, not even one.

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Office Mafia Day 1
Roger.
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Office Mafia Day 1
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@warren42
Restating for mod benefit

However, I do want to iterate that the mod said votes have to be bolted. AROSE unvote wasn't bolded and, by the rules, Sir should be lynched by now. If this decision to accept an unbolded vote throws the game, I will be upset.


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Office Mafia Day 1
As an objective analysis, these are both pretty weak wagons, but Sir's is stronger compared to AROSE. Everyone is pretty much literally just sheeping Lunatic. That's. It. Only Press really bothered to provide a stated reason, it but it's just Lunatic's reason with the words in different order.

That said, I really don't like the people who are on my own wagon, only me and airmax have provided reasons and everyone else can't even be bothered to lynch.

However, I do want to iterate that the mod said votes have to be bolted. AROSE unvote wasn't bolded and, by the rules, Sir should be lynched by now. If this decision to accept an unbolded vote throws the game, I will be upset.

I will proceed as if Sir hasn't been lynched and UNVOTE.

Neither of these wagons are looking good RN. Going to individual voting analysis:

oro - casting a wide net, doing a lot of probing, caution to avoid mishammer, not really concerned about a lynch at the moment - Town Read.

Grey - joke and sheep votes. Not ideal. I still Town Read him because of claim but this voting behavior is slight sus.

Supa - A bit milquetoast to be honest. He seems to be latching onto other people's reasons rather than forming his own. Slight Sus.

Arose - Not much to talk about. The analysis of his behavior as passive is right on, but not necessarily scum. Null.

Wylted - He's all over the place here, but he's always all over the place. Null.

Speed - Solid town. His quasi-CC of Press and subsequent retract reads as a solid Town mistake.

Water - "Can afford a mislynch." Yeah, we can, but that's not a reason itself to cause one. Sus.

Pie - No reason given. Sus.

Pres - Sheeping. He's relatively new and sheeping is what noobs often do. Null.

airmax - He's given his own independent reason for voting Sir, but he's also had plenty of time to come up with one. Slight Town.

Sir - Participated a lot, asked a lot of questions, even given some reads. Yet has yet to provide a single vote. Slight Sus.

Lunatic - Though flawed, his reasoning at least exits and obeys a certain internal logic. Town.

After all of this I am still leaning towards Sir, especially over AROSE, but I don't like the company I'm with.

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Office Mafia Day 1
Voting Analysis

drafterman

oromagi

Grey

SupaDudz

AROSE

Wylted

Speed

Water

Pie

Lunatic

Press

airmax

Sir
No Votes

Wagon Analysis

Sir
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Office Mafia Day 1
Lunatic:


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Office Mafia Day 1
LOL. I thought you'd rather mislynch than lynch someone for information?
Rather "no lynch"*


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Office Mafia Day 1
No lynching someone else instead of a weaker lynch isn't pushing a NL
I wasn't talking about switching from one lynch to another. Moving goal posts.

It's a debate site, and a big part of mafia is debate and influencing others. I'm telling you my opinions to alter the course of the game in a way I feel is more important than the direction it's currently going. If you dis-agree with my opinions, tell me why, try to influence me why yours is better. 
All you've done is establish that AROSE is behaving differently. Behaving differently isn't inherently scummy. You've omitted that part and allowed other people to make that unproven connecting.

Town orchestrated, sure. If some others agree with what I am saying, that there are better lynch targets, then I don't see what's wrong with orchestrating a lynch on to a better target.
Town can't orchestrate anything because Town doesn't know who Town are.

Especially when you yourself have stated you felt unsure of the lynch earlier on. It's not like their has been a big behavior shift from SA between now and then. And I am not buying this "there is no better targets" argument from you. There is just no better "convenient" targets. If you think I am really steering the town away in a negative direction with ill intent, that should make me scummier than this weak lynch on SA? But I don't have the votes on me, so your gonna settle SA right? Lazy =/= Convienent. I was probably wrong that you are lazy. This is looking scummy now. 
You can only lynch one person a day. So if I have two choices I'd like to see lynched, of course I'm going to go for the easier one. Why wouldn't I?

Also, the wagons are equal so getting either lynched requires the same amount of effort. In fact, by switching the AROSE lynch would be the more convenient one, so your rebuttal is rendered moot.

I think the speed in which the AROSE wagon developed is itself suspicious.

His lynch will be a good indicator.
LOL. I thought you'd rather mislynch than lynch someone for information?

Regardless he specifically said he refuses to participate which is pretty anti town. Not even to help the SA lynch you want.
I can see him being intimidated by the level of activity and sheer size of the game. I don't think he's been in a game like this before.

I fully believe that Day Phases can reach saturation in which nothing else productive can get done an subsequent activity doesn't do anything other than clutter things up and make analysis harder on. In such a situation, checking out isn't anti town.
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Office Mafia Day 1
Even if we concede that AROSE behavior is substantively different, we haven't established that different=scum.
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Office Mafia Day 1
See. All you did was split the vote, making a lynch on either less likely.
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Office Mafia Day 1
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@Lunatic
No... I am trying to push a lynch, but a better one. And I think I had a huge debate about this before a few years, but I still think No lynching is better than mis-lynching for "information". 
You asked why I feel it is scummy. I feel it is scummy because it pushes us to a NL, rather than a Lynch. I understand you don't feel that is scummy, but that doesn't refute why I feel it is scummy.

I dis-agree that it's more than anyone else. If anything my town read on SA has strengthed lol. Despite me being the only one steering away from his lynch, he didn't exactly bandwagon my AROSE lynch, and still kind of suspects me. Looks like he is actually trying to find scum the right way.
Dude, you asked my opinion on the lynch. You can't disagree that my opinion is what I say it is. I'm not basing my decisions on your reads.

Not if you don't want there to be. This feels lazy. 
And this redirection away from Sir feels orchestrated.

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Office Mafia Day 1
There is this:


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Office Mafia Day 1
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@warren42
I'm pretty sure Sir is already lynched. I don't think warren counted AROSE vote and I don't see where AROSE unvoted.


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Office Mafia Day 1
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@ILikePie5
I'll figure that out then.
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Office Mafia Day 1
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@ILikePie5
Me: I focus on one person at a time.
Pie: Okay, so who are your other reads.
Me: (≖_≖ )
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Office Mafia Day 1
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@ILikePie5
I tend to focus on one person at a time.
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Office Mafia Day 1
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@Lunatic
Why is it scummy?
Because it pushes us to a NL which only helps Mafia.

You yourself has omitted that you didn't think there was a lot to lynch him on earlier in the DP.
Correct. But a lot is more than zero, and more than we have for anyone else. And personally I don't really think you need a lot, at least not this early.

We have a whole day left. Why settle on a meh lynch if there is a better one?
Because there isn't a better one.

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Office Mafia Day 1
I feel all of this diffusion of pressure is scummy, tbh. Whatever I feel, I think SA is still the best wagon.
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Office Mafia Day 1
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@Lunatic
I don't agree with your premise.
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Office Mafia Day 1
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@ILikePie5
Sure.


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Office Mafia Day 1
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@ILikePie5
I read his posts and they don't make me think he's scum?
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Office Mafia Day 1
I'm not getting a scum read from Arose, either.
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Office Mafia Day 1
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@Lunatic
Well I guess if he flips scum you have your scum pool narrowed down, lol
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Office Mafia Day 1
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@Lunatic
Well I guess if he flips scum you have your scum pool narrowed down, lol
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Office Mafia Day 1
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@SirAnonymous
Because scum buddies are usually hesitant to lynch their own, ergo it's harder to get support for their lynching.
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Office Mafia Day 1
With the level of activity in this game, I think if Sir was town he would have been lynched a lot faster.
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Office Mafia Day 1
If he flips scum we lynch airmax. Toby sucks.
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Office Mafia Day 1
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@Speedrace
I think it's tantamount to the same thing, really. Basically Mike thought of the Scranton branch as his "family." They were constantly at odds with other branches (due to threatened downsizing).

He hated Toby Flenderson because Toby was from corporate (and therefore not really part of the Scranton branch) and worked for HR and Mike perceived him as always trying to ruin his fun.

He hated AJ because AJ was dating Holly, Mike's love interest.

The only other real candidate would be Charles Miner.
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Office Mafia Day 1
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@Vader
I'm a woman, so it isn't that.
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Minimum wage
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@Athias
You forgo a response because you allege my argument amounts to nothing more than a negation.
It is:

Me: "There is a need for a higher minimum wage right now."
You "No, there isn't."

What follows is a hypothetical scenario contingent upon a premise you don't accept "Even if one were to argue that the minimum wage is meant to reflect the cost of living..." But since you don't accept the premise, there is no point in addressing the argument, is there? 

I spent the past 10 days going round and round with Christen and when we even got a modicum of concession or agreement, he disappears. At least he was arguing from premises he actually accepted. What's the point here? Let's say I spend the next 10 days arguing with you and, at the end of those 10 days, you agree with all of my conclusions.

It's all irrelevant because they're still rooted in a premise you don't accept. There is no point in arguing the consequences of it if you don't accept it. Any starting ground should start with shared premises.

I then contend that it wasn't mere negation and that reading it more comprehensively would make that clear. You offer that my argument is contingent on the minimum wage's not being sufficient, to which I concede a part of it is.
How can part of it be sufficient but not all of it? Part of the minimum wage is less than the minimum wage. How can less than the minimum wage be enough to live off of, but all of the minimum wage not be enough to live off of? That is nonsensical.

I reciprocate, and offer to elaborate on the parts you deem necessary. You then render a conclusion in dichotomous fashion that a mere negation or affirmation suffices.

What's the end game, here?
You tell me. You decided to respond to me. What is your end game. As it is you have provided the following:

1. "Nuh uh."
2. "Here is a hypothetical situation that amounts to nothing because I don't agree with the premise anyway."

If you have anything to elaborate on that, please, do so at your convenience. You don't need my permission.
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DART Survivor
/in
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What the hell is this... "Mafia"?
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@warren42
That works, too.
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What the hell is this... "Mafia"?
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@warren42
This post is basically polling for said interest. If we don't get enough, no series unfortunately :(

Each beginners game will have 2-3 experienced players in a vet slot. That, plus 7-8 beginners, should be enough to get us going.
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Survive the Killer Mafia (sign-ups) [open setup]
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@Discipulus_Didicit
That button doesn't actually do anything (hence my pfp).
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Office Mafia Day 1
My back-up theme analysis is Scranton vs. Not Scranton.

Which still places AJ and Toby in the scum pile.
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Survive the Killer Mafia (sign-ups) [open setup]
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@Discipulus_Didicit
I forget the time frame, but you have the option to delete your own posts.
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What the hell is this... "Mafia"?
Ever wonder what is going on in the Games' forum? Why it has so many posts? Do kids really talk that much about their vidya games?

Well, yes, but that's not why: it's Mafia!

No, we haven't been invaded by the Cosa Nostra. This isn't the work of Sicilians...

...it's the Russians!*

Mafia was a party-game invented in the 80's. It is known as a "social deduction game" where you have a "Town" team and a "Mafia" team. The objective of each team is to kill the other. The Town, while in the majority, doesn't know who the Mafia are. The Mafia have to Masquerade as Town, convincing them to kill their own (and also have the ability to directly kill Town's people themselves).

Today, it is a commonly played online: in many forums on the Internet and on web sites dedicated to the game, such as Epic Mafia or Town of Salem.

Each place has its own implementation and variation and DART is no different. Because of this, there can be a steep learning curve which can act as a barrier to entry.

No more!

In times past we have held Beginner's Series of game to introduce people to the mechanics and culture that is DDO/DART Mafia. If there is enough interest (~7-8 people) we can resume this series of games.

So if you've ever been interested in what this game is but were worried about being fitted for a set of cement shoes, fear no more!

* - Seriously, Mafia was invented by a Russian.
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Office Mafia Day 1
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@Wylted
No one wants that.
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Office Mafia Day 1
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@airmax1227
By pro and anti, I mean from the POV of Michael, he absolutely despises AJ and Toby.
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Office Mafia Day 1
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@Vader
You don't have to call him sir, we're all peers here.

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Office Mafia Day 1
Good things come to those who wait, but all is lost of you hesitate.
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Office Mafia Day 1
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@SirAnonymous
Problem with sticking your neck out in a game whose primary mechanic is sticking a noose on it.
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Office Mafia Day 1
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@SirAnonymous
Let me put it another way, it's not behavior I've seen from other noobs before, ergo I wouldn't expect it from a noob presently.
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Office Mafia Day 1
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@SirAnonymous
Because I wouldn't expect them to have any insight to offer, since they're a noob.
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Office Mafia Day 1
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@SirAnonymous
Because I don't see a noob jumping into the conversation like that.
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Office Mafia Day 1
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@SirAnonymous
Because you can be active in the game in general without jumping into a specific conversation between two users.
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Office Mafia Day 1
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@SirAnonymous
I didn't comment on the level of your activity.
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Office Mafia Day 1
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@SirAnonymous
Go read the Lucid Dreamer's mafia.
Please don't make me. It was painful to watch that lynch at MYLO the first time.


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Office Mafia Day 1
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@Vader
I really didn't give him any tips other than action-specific ones. I'm not about to school one more experienced than I. He's "grey" parrot for a reason. Legend has it, when he started Mafia he was "full head of brown hair" parrot.

As it is, he was fairly clear that he hates main character claims as Mafia. It'd be extremely odd for him to come out, in the very next game, doing just that.

Unless he was playing the long con, which kudos to him.

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